quick Deadlift question... I KNOW YOU KNOW

[RGS83]

Ok so as some have probbably seen i'm doing a 5x5 routine.

Thursday is my 'back day'. I workout at home for everything but my legs so i'm limited in what I can do.
I'm going for some overall body mass (muscle mass) growth, strength, and generally be of better health.

I do:
5x5 Deadlifts
3x8ish sets Bent Over Rows
3x10 sets of shrugs
3x10ish sets of pullovers.

My buddy has the same bench i do, and he does a lying BB row, by tossing some weight plates under the bench to jack it up, then goes nuts, so i might try that.

NOW MY QUESTION:
I'm just getting to the hard part of the 5x5; until now it was the running start. But when deadlifting I don't seem to feel it anymore in my back.
I did feel it the first few times i deadlifted, but nothing anymore.

Can someone please describe, step-by-step, how to do an effictive deadlift?
I don't want to hurt myself or waste my time. It seems like it's pretty much a squat, but as you come up, you straighten your back out?
Also, do i go all the way back down as i would for a squat between REPS or only a bit until my back isn't totally vertical anymore?

I've checked the vids on exrx.net, but no matter how well i think i mimick them, I don't think i'm doing it right.. and he only shows 1 rep, not sets.

Thanks Guys and Gals!!!!
I apperciate it, I've been looking all over for this particular info, as back day is tomrrow and want to hit it hard....
Or 'KILL IT' as it were

Ryan

 

[mekannik]

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=39power


1/2 way down the page

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Well first off, everyone is built differently and what works for one guy formwise, may not work for another. Some will tell you to keep your back arched, some will say just keep it flat, and others actually lift with a round back(never do this unless you KNOW your back). AS for form, I'm guessing you're refering to regular deadlifts, not sumo or stiff legged.

Regular starting deadlift checkpoints:

heels shoulder width or closer together.

Feet flared out about 20-30 degrees, just a little, not too much

hands grip bar shoulder width apart, either over-under, or both pronated for balance and grip development, otherwise you should switch your grip every workout to avoid muscular imbalances with the over-under grip

sit your ass down and back

Look forward or slightly up

chest up, back slightly arched or flat, shoulders back

torso should be anywhere from a 30-45 degree angle depending on your height and build

take a breath into your chest or diaphragm, tense your abs and butt and pull up and back with most of your weight centered under your feet or slightly to the heel. Keep your whole body tense, do not relax.

Lock out at the top, but do not lean back too much or jerk into your upright position when you hit the top of your reps as either can hurt your lower back

To lower the weight, reverse the motion. Sit down and back as you lower the weight. Alot of guys let the bar kinda roll down the thighs as they lower, but do not let the bar roll over or hit your knees, this can cause injury.

reset your starting position at the bottom and repeat.

I wouldn't go above 5 reps in the regular barbell deadlift, but stiff legged deadlifts are ok for higher reps if you're careful.

Deadlifts are alot different then squats. Squats hit your thighs, hips, butt, abs and lower back hard, deadlifts hit your lower back, butt, hams, traps, and grip hard. They are 2 totally different movements and both should be done in some form or another in every lifters routine baring physical incapability. Hope this helps. Btw, my back doesn't get sore from deadlifts after a couple workouts when coming back from a layoff so don't feel like you're necessarily doing something wrong because it isn't sore anymore. If your form is good and you're getting stronger then you're doing it right.

 

[Carmen]

Well first off, everyone is built differently and what works for one guy formwise, may not work for another. Some will tell you to keep your back arched, some will say just keep it flat, and others actually lift with a round back(never do this unless you KNOW your back). AS for form, I'm guessing you're refering to regular deadlifts, not sumo or stiff legged.

do not ever lift with a rounded back!!
here are the setups for both sumo and conventional deadlifts:

The sumo set-up:
Approach the bar. Take one foot or the other; your choice as to which is most comfortable and depending on whether you are a wide sumo or a narrow sumo. The shin goes up to the bar, and toes tilted out 45 degrees or even more in some cases. Shins vertical, and knees slightly bent. Hands should be down inside the legs with the forearms touching the inside of the thigh if possible. As you push your knees out (like the squat), you bend over slightly, with arms straight, and grasp the bar half on and half off the knurling. Your arms should be straight vertically from the shoulders to the bar. This rule will determine exactly where the hands are to be placed. For a very big lifter with wider shoulders this may be all the way on the knurling. For most, however, half off and half on will insure the best and shortest pull.


The arms are straight, and the bar lies in the fingers, like it is holding a hook. Thumb should be overlapping one or two of the first two fingers.

The bar should "not" be squeezed. Rather, it should just lay in the fingers/hand. Only the thumb should be flexed, or squeezed, not the hands, not the forearm. If this is done incorrectly, most likely, the bar on a very hard pull will slip out of the hands. Also if the hands are rotated as you grip the bar, it will most likely slip out as the weight pulls down, and pulls the rotated hands back to a straight up and down position. One does not have to have a strong grip to hold onto large amounts of weight. I have a very poor grip and grip strength and have never lost a deadlift, i.e. 716 at 165lbs.


The sumo attempt/pull:
As you are leaning over the bar knees pushed out, you dip the hips slightly to start your pull, short and sweet. The hips will pull in towards the bar. The head will follow from down to out as you start the pull. You will pull the slack first out from the plate/bar. Then, the bend in the bar slack will come next. The bar will pull into the fingers even more as this slack is pulled out and as all the different areas of slack are pulled out you will explode up, with a very short in line stroke. The back will not be arched but have a slight curve in it/or perhaps even straight. You should take a short half breath right as you go down to the bar. Too much breath expands the chest and rib cage more than it need be. It raises the shoulders and lengthens the distance the bar travels, as well as forces the shoulders back while at the bottom right before the pull.

A variation of the slow sumo pull is the drop and grab and explode method. Everything is still the same as far as the hands, but it is done very quickly. Many times, when done too quickly or out of control, one grabs the bar wrong and/or the hips rise to fast, giving way to a stiff legged deadlift.


The conventional set-up:
Walk to the bar with the feet about shoulder width apart. The shins should be 2-4 inches from the bar. Some minute experimentation will find the exact spot you need to be. As you lean over to the bar, grab it the same way as you did in the sumo except outside the legs a few inches on the knurling, touching the calves.


The conventional attempt/pull:
Take a small breath and dip the hips and pull. One variation of this technique used nowadays is to dip, roll the bar a few inches out in front of you, and then reverse and pull it back in. As it gets to the shins start the pull upward. Some momentum can be obtained from this and the bar can be started in closer to the center of gravity. If not done exactly right, however, a moving bar can be a problem.

 

[b fold the truth]

Here is the greatest Deadlift Article Ever Written.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=194dead

This is me doing deadlifts from this past Wednesday...after box squats.

PLEASE RIGHT CLICK AND "SAVE TARGET AS"!!!!!

671 x 2

My form broke a bit on these...mainly because of the heavy weight and my weak points are both my lower erectors and my hamstrings (still left over from a hamstring tear last December and February). I hope to pull 691 x 2 this next week and then a raw 730+ in the next month(s).

With HEAVY weights...you will feel it a lot in your lower back and upper back. I feel it all over today. Upper back, lower erectors, glutes, and hams. WONDERFUL exercise.

B True

 

[RGS83]

Right on! Thanks guys... very conscise!

The explanations were right on the money, and the links to T-nation were awesome!

However, what exactly is he trying to say in that first link to T-nation when he speaks of the scapula.... He says:
"Back flat, pelvis and head aligned with spine. Scapula retracted and depressed"

The Scapula is the shoulder blade correct... so is what he telling me to do is lower my traps (and hence my shoulder blades) as much as possible??

 

[bignate73]

pull your shoulders back and down, is what he is saying.

 

[the guy on the couch]

just a few things that really made a difference in my deads:

1) be sure your feet are a shoulder's width apart (or a little bit closer)

2) keep your lower back and abs TIGHT

3) do them with a mirror to your side, so you can be sure you're not lifting it with your lower back. see mek's pics. your back should be tight and never bend.

4) start light, work on form. build up SLOWLY form there.

good luck!

 

[Beachbum1546]

the calf routine in that link look sick!!

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

You can in fact lift with a rounded back no problems if you know your back. Also, I said only people that like to and know their back do this. How do you think you pick up a heavy ass bag of sand or a concrete or marble ball. No way in hell you're gonna get it up trying to lift it with a flat back, especially balls, rocks and chunks of concrete, sorry, ain't gonna happen. You have to squat down, wrap your arms around it like a bear hug, which means you round your back and then you stand up with it. Many an object can be lifted safely with a round back, you jsut gotta know what you're doing. Of course, I don't recommend round back deads, but some do with no problems.

 

[bignate73]

the upper back can definitely round, its keeping the lower back tight. strongmen round a great deal, i would ask bfold how much rounded back work is beneficial. i know people who pull rounded back, but they round their upper back primarily.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

That's pretty much what I mean bignate when I say you have to know your back. It's the upperback rounding mostly. When I do dumbell stiff legged deads I round the upper back and touch the bells to the floor, but my lower back is realtively flat. I guess it's all in the wording.

 

[bignate73]

i hear ya. body control is everything to injury prevention.

 

[b fold the truth]

First two pulls on a big stone:

460 Stone

You can also see in this clip how the spine goes from flat (when I'm standing) to rounded (to pick up the stone) back to arched (as I pop the stone to the platform) and back again. I also have very thick erectors and a fairly strong back.

265, 285, 310, 345 to 61", 365 miss

With rounded back exercises...I'd think that this just might be HOW the erectors "contract". The chest contracts, so do the quads, hamstrings, triceps, biceps, etc... Why not the erectors????

B True

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

That's some great lifting. Heavy stone lifting is the shit in my book. That's also a great example of lifting with a rounded back and how it is actually normal for the body. Like you said, and I agree with, the erectors stretch when rounded, and contract when straightened, which can be plainly seen when you lift the stones. It's totally natural. You really can't lift stones, chunks of concrete, rocks and sand bags etc., without some back rounding because of the rather awkward nature of the object you are lifting. Try picking up a heavy ass stone like that with a totally straight or arched back. Um, ain't gonna happen. Lifting objects like that is a total body effort and if you try to stand up with it straight back, that means your arms would be straight and that you'd have to curl the object up to chest height with arm strength alone, which ain't gonna happen. I don't think even Kaz could do a solid curl with 345-365lbs. Lifting stuff like that is a combo of squat, back extension, glute/ham contraction, arm curl, bear hug, trap contraction etc. You bascially have to lift with a rounded back and use the whole body to get it up.

I'm not saying doing barbell deadlifts with a rounded back is good or the way to go, but I always kinda round my back at the bottom position when doing deads, and then straighten it out as I lift up, so I'm basically stretching and contracting the erectors through a full range of motion rather than keeping them statically contracted throughout the lift which I feel has little carryover to lifting awkward objects, or real world use of strength. I think lifting with a rounded back from the beginning of a lift to full extension at the end of a lift can be safely done and beneficial if you know your back and know how to lift this way. Otherwise keep it straight or arched. That's just my opinion.