Question about Keto-Acidosis etc..

[BIGbouncer]

I started out with one question about keto-acidosis, but after been searching for like 5 hours, I now ended up with 4 more questions, hehe. And none of the posts here answer me good enough, so hope you guys can help me out!

1. Post workout our bloodsugar is VERY low, and to raise the bloodsugar the body will convert BCAA's(aminoacids) to glucose so that the bloodsugar gets higher. However, this is no problem because we just drink some high GI carbs(on regular diet) and the body has no need to break down muscletissue any longer. But, when in ketosis the bloodsugar is low all the time! So, it makes sense to me that the body will break down muscletissue/protein to fight the low bloodsugar all week, or?

2. In ketosis the insulin level is also VERY low. And as we know the insulin is the "bus" for creatin. In ketosis you will not get the effect of creatin becasue of this low insulin level. But, how the h*** can the protein be transported into the muscle cells when the insulin isn't there? What kind of transportsystem is used?

3. Doing cardio in the morning is the best. We have empty glycogendepoes and can start burning fat right away! But as explained above, the body may break down muscletissue. So why not taking a proteinshake IN WATER before doing the cardio?? No carbs there, only protein which may be used instead of the muscles if the body decides to make some glucose(energy)..

4. Keto is something new to me. I've understood by reading the posts here that the fat get converted into ketones(energy) when the brain has no other energysource. Ketones get burned instead of carbs when doing cardio, or other regual things in the home like jerking off..
But why does my friend who are VERY into nutrition etc say that ketones are just some poisenous acids which in large numbers are called "Keto-Acidsosis" and they are very dangerous. He also say that they do not get burned in the muscles, you just piss them out. And ketones may also be produced when eating too much protein. He say that fat get converted into glycerol when no carbs is avileble(it's like glucose). And glycerol get burned in the muscles, not ketones...? If he's wrong, please explain me _what_ ketones _is_ and what it _does_.

Now, I just wonder, let's say I'm still in ketosis when eating 6g carbs one meal. And when eating the 7th g I get kicked out. What did change`? The brain stopped taking energy from ketones? And if I got kicked out I wouldn't need more than like 5 jumps in the air and I would have burned that carb that kicked me out, and I'm back in... right?

5. The last question. While in ketosis you're not supposed to drink any carbs post cardio OR weightlifting?? The only day carb is a "yes" is the carb up day, right?

Puhh..

Hope some of you bothered reading my post.

Thanks

 

[sixtythirtyten]

I think it is funny that people on this board think ketosis is a good thing. Our bodies were not made to operate on ketones. Ketosis is actually a state of starvation. Why would you want to put your body into a state where your breath stinks, your potassium and glycogen are drained and you feel like crap. Think about it, is a diet that consists of bacon, beef, and any other saturated fat really good for bodybuilders let alone anybody. Not only that, but I don't even think it is the best way to lose fat. Sure, you will lose weight, but is it bodyfat?

 

[diamonddiceclay]

I started out with one question about keto-acidosis, but after been searching for like 5 hours, I now ended up with 4 more questions, hehe. And none of the posts here answer me good enough, so hope you guys can help me out!

1. Post workout our bloodsugar is VERY low, and to raise the bloodsugar the body will convert BCAA's(aminoacids) to glucose so that the bloodsugar gets higher. However, this is no problem because we just drink some high GI carbs(on regular diet) and the body has no need to break down muscletissue any longer. But, when in ketosis the bloodsugar is low all the time! So, it makes sense to me that the body will break down muscletissue/protein to fight the low bloodsugar all week, or?

2. In ketosis the insulin level is also VERY low. And as we know the insulin is the "bus" for creatin. In ketosis you will not get the effect of creatin becasue of this low insulin level. But, how the h*** can the protein be transported into the muscle cells when the insulin isn't there? What kind of transportsystem is used?

3. Doing cardio in the morning is the best. We have empty glycogendepoes and can start burning fat right away! But as explained above, the body may break down muscletissue. So why not taking a proteinshake IN WATER before doing the cardio?? No carbs there, only protein which may be used instead of the muscles if the body decides to make some glucose(energy)..

4. Keto is something new to me. I've understood by reading the posts here that the fat get converted into ketones(energy) when the brain has no other energysource. Ketones get burned instead of carbs when doing cardio, or other regual things in the home like jerking off..
But why does my friend who are VERY into nutrition etc say that ketones are just some poisenous acids which in large numbers are called "Keto-Acidsosis" and they are very dangerous. He also say that they do not get burned in the muscles, you just piss them out. And ketones may also be produced when eating too much protein. He say that fat get converted into glycerol when no carbs is avileble(it's like glucose). And glycerol get burned in the muscles, not ketones...? If he's wrong, please explain me _what_ ketones _is_ and what it _does_.

Now, I just wonder, let's say I'm still in ketosis when eating 6g carbs one meal. And when eating the 7th g I get kicked out. What did change`? The brain stopped taking energy from ketones? And if I got kicked out I wouldn't need more than like 5 jumps in the air and I would have burned that carb that kicked me out, and I'm back in... right?

5. The last question. While in ketosis you're not supposed to drink any carbs post cardio OR weightlifting?? The only day carb is a "yes" is the carb up day, right?

Puhh..

Hope some of you bothered reading my post.

Thanks

KETOSIS CAN ONLY BE MAINTAINED WHEN EATING LESS THAN 20G A DAY CARBS-YOU CAN TRY 6 DAYS NO CARBS AND 1 DAY CARB UP-THIS WAY YOU WILL REFILL GLYCOGEN FROM THE 6 DAY DEPLETION

 

[Onenameleft]

I'm going to try to answer your questions the best I can, but bear with me, there's a lot of different information in your post.

1) When not in a ketonic state, your body will consume muscle to raise blood sugar, but once you reach ketosis, this mechanism stops. ketones are considered 'protein sparing' because with them present in the blood, your body would prefer to burn fat and create ketones for energy instead of burning muscle to create glucose.

2) There is some insulin present in the blood even in ketosis. However, you're right, while in a ketonic state, muscle repair is greatly hindered. That's the reason most people suggest at least one carbup day a week to let the muscles repair if you are doing a ketogenic diet and lifting weights at the same time. You'll definitely notice you are sore longer after a workout when in ketosis. This is because your muscles can't repair as quickly.

3)Light cardio for a relatively short time is very unlikely to trigger muscle burning for energy. If you do take protein in, you wouldn't slow fat burning much, but any glucose created from the protein would be used before any stored fat could be. Muscle will only be burned for glucose under certain conditions, but when you eat protein, some glucose is always created.

4)Ketones are a byproduct released when a fat molecule is broken down to be used as energy. Ketones can be burned for energy, and the excess are passed through urine. They don't get burned in the muscles. Only glycogen can be used by the muscles for energy, which again is the reason for a carb up. It replenishes your muscle glycogen stores to restore your strength. Ketones are acidic and in high concentrations can cause a condition called ketoacidosis where the blood actually becomes to acidic to be safe. This doesn't happen in healthy people though. Your body has mechanisms in place that stop the production of ketones (release of insulin) when their concentration gets too high. ketoacidosis most commonly seen in undiagnosed diabetics before they go on insulin and begin to control their disease through diet.
4b) when your blood glucose reaches a certain level, then insulin is released and the glucose is burned for energy. The presence of insulin stops ketone production. (see above) So if you eat enough carbs to facilitate the release of insulin, you will get 'kicked out' of ketosis. How long it takes you to get back in depends on how many carbs were consumed and your level of activity as well as insulin sensitivity.

5) Yes, on a typical CKD, you only eat carbs on your carbup day, although some people consider a 36 hour - 2 day carb up better than one day. There are other ketogenic diets, though where you consume controlled amounts of carbs everyday.

I hope this helps clear some of it up for you.. I don't think most of the people here will say that ketosis is really a 'healthy' state. I don't believe it to be particularly healthy. It does seem to be effective, though for many people to lose fat quickly while preserving muscle.

 

[BIGbouncer]

I'm going to try to answer your questions the best I can, but bear with me, there's a lot of different information in your post.

1) When not in a ketonic state, your body will consume muscle to raise blood sugar, but once you reach ketosis, this mechanism stops. ketones are considered 'protein sparing' because with them present in the blood, your body would prefer to burn fat and create ketones for energy instead of burning muscle to create glucose.

2) There is some insulin present in the blood even in ketosis. However, you're right, while in a ketonic state, muscle repair is greatly hindered. That's the reason most people suggest at least one carbup day a week to let the muscles repair if you are doing a ketogenic diet and lifting weights at the same time. You'll definitely notice you are sore longer after a workout when in ketosis. This is because your muscles can't repair as quickly.

3)Light cardio for a relatively short time is very unlikely to trigger muscle burning for energy. If you do take protein in, you wouldn't slow fat burning much, but any glucose created from the protein would be used before any stored fat could be. Muscle will only be burned for glucose under certain conditions, but when you eat protein, some glucose is always created.

4)Ketones are a byproduct released when a fat molecule is broken down to be used as energy. Ketones can be burned for energy, and the excess are passed through urine. They don't get burned in the muscles. Only glycogen can be used by the muscles for energy, which again is the reason for a carb up. It replenishes your muscle glycogen stores to restore your strength. Ketones are acidic and in high concentrations can cause a condition called ketoacidosis where the blood actually becomes to acidic to be safe. This doesn't happen in healthy people though. Your body has mechanisms in place that stop the production of ketones (release of insulin) when their concentration gets too high. ketoacidosis most commonly seen in undiagnosed diabetics before they go on insulin and begin to control their disease through diet.
4b) when your blood glucose reaches a certain level, then insulin is released and the glucose is burned for energy. The presence of insulin stops ketone production. (see above) So if you eat enough carbs to facilitate the release of insulin, you will get 'kicked out' of ketosis. How long it takes you to get back in depends on how many carbs were consumed and your level of activity as well as insulin sensitivity.

5) Yes, on a typical CKD, you only eat carbs on your carbup day, although some people consider a 36 hour - 2 day carb up better than one day. There are other ketogenic diets, though where you consume controlled amounts of carbs everyday.

I hope this helps clear some of it up for you.. I don't think most of the people here will say that ketosis is really a 'healthy' state. I don't believe it to be particularly healthy. It does seem to be effective, though for many people to lose fat quickly while preserving muscle.

Thank you very much, you have helped me A LOT! Just the answer(s) I was looking for

There is only one thing I'm not quite sure of. You wrote: "Ketones can be burned for energy, and the excess are passed through urine. They don't get burned in the muscles"
Where do they get burned if not in the muscles? And "excess" means the "surplus", which are passed throught he urine?

Sorry, my english could be better

 

[Mr.X]

Repeat after me three times, ketones are not evil, ketones are not evil, ketones are not evil.

OK, now that we have gotten that out of the way...
Yes, ketones are the end result of "incomplete" breakdown of fats, with the ketones being the "remnants, ash, etc." left over from this. Ketoacidosis IS dangerous in a diabetic, no question about it. Ketoacidosis however IS NOT dangerous in normal healthy humans adapting a high fat/protein, low carb diet. Acidosis simply means an increased amount of acid in the blood. Ketone bodies are acids and therefore CAUSE acidosis. There are several other chemical mechanisms by which the human body produces acidosis, and many ways in which the body compensates for ketones to maintain a normal pH balance. In normal humans adopting a ketogenic diet, the ketoacidosis will correct itself in one to two weeks, and the pH of the blood will then remain normal throughout the remainder of the diet. Changes in the water and electrolyte content of the brain are rapidly compensated for by the rest of the body. It is really that simple.

So, in short, the PH level of blood will raise to normal (around 7) after 2-4 weeks.

Mr.X

 

[Onenameleft]

Yes, the excess means surpluss. Whatever isn't burned off is passed through the urine. Fats are burned to give energy to the body, but not to give muscles strength or to repair muscle.

 

[BIGbouncer]

Ok, thanks guys! I've tried to repeated it a couple of times now, Mr.X