Pure strength v Muscle mass.

[jd_uk]

How much does being strong depend on extra muscle mass?

Is it impossible to get much stronger without gaining large amounts of muscle?

Can a less muscular man ever truly be stronger than a much more muscular man? (e.g. can a 150lb lean man be stronger than a 220lb lean man?)

Discuss. It's a topic i find interesting.

 

[puddlemonkey]

The roid board would be all over this topic.

Good thread.

 

[silverfish]

Weight moves weight, right?

 

[nimbus]

you can definitely achieve high levels of neuromuscular efficiency and lift more than people who have more muscle mass than you. I've lost muscle mass over the past year but some of my lifts went up

 

[nimbus]

Weight moves weight, right?

it can, but more generally speaking it's force that moves weight, lots of the force you can apply has nothing to do with weight

 

[stilleto]

i am not muscular looking at all, and can lift more than some men my size.

 

[jd_uk]

i am not muscular looking at all, and can lift more than some men my size.

So, why is it that 99.9 of the public (probably) equates size with strength?

 

[jd_uk]

you can definitely achieve high levels of neuromuscular efficiency and lift more than people who have more muscle mass than you. I've lost muscle mass over the past year but some of my lifts went up

Neuromuscular efficiency? What exactly is this though? I remember reading about it years ago when i was into gaining muscle mass but it kind of seemed like 'pseudo-science'.

 

[Wulfgar]

I lift like a pussy but I am huge

 

[stilleto]

So, why is it that 99.9 of the public (probably) equates size with strength?

because they think that muscle is muscle- that if you can see it, it must be there and if you can't see it, it's not.

and while it's true that a very muscular looking person obviously lifts weights, the average person doesn't know that they might not lift HEAVY weights, but just a lot of reps.

i have a strong core- that's not really a visible thing, but it helps me lift.

 

[jd_uk]

because they think that muscle is muscle- that if you can see it, it must be there and if you can't see it, it's not.

and while it's true that a very muscular looking person obviously lifts weights, the average person doesn't know that they might not lift HEAVY weights, but just a lot of reps.

i have a strong core- that's not really a visible thing, but it helps me lift.

Yep strong core is definately a big advantage for lifting. I don't lift weights (just do bodyweight resistance and cardio) at the moment but when i did last year i was deadlifting more than the muscular guys 60lbs heavier than me.

Also with chin ups i always used to get the bigger guys in the gym looking at me like i could only do loads of chin ups because i was light when in reality i can do more than they can with a 40lbs vest on too.

So i'm curious just how much muscle mass matters and if not then why not.

 

[Big Rick Rock]

Good technique goes a lot further than just raw strength. Specially in sports where you compete against people of your same weight...

There is a huge mental aspect to strength. Your brain makes your muscles weaker that you truly are.

 

[silverfish]

Most construction guys I know are much stronger that others who are the same size. Their strength is more functional. The can do more physical work for a longer period of time that the average "weightlifter."

 

[nimbus]

Neuromuscular efficiency? What exactly is this though? I remember reading about it years ago when i was into gaining muscle mass but it kind of seemed like 'pseudo-science'.

i haven't done the research myself, but the kines majors i know tell me that people only recruit a certain percentage of their muscle fibers when performing a feat of strength. so people are only exerting forces that are a fraction of their muscles's potential. The percentage of fibers you recruit is partially determined by genetics, but can also be increased through repetition of the same task - your body will get used to the process and help you do it better. So a smaller dude who is highly trained and has good genetics can possibly take much more advantage of his muscles than someone who is noticeably bigger but untrained/naturally a clumsy noob, and be functionally stronger

 

[nimbus]

So, why is it that 99.9 of the public (probably) equates size with strength?

because size = potential roughly. bigger people are usually stronger, but not always. It's like assuming somebody with a faster car will win in a streetrace, even though sometimes the dude in the slower car can shift better and win

 

[biteme]

Srtength is mostly genetic, although of course genetically superior men of bigger size will lift even more..When I was much lighter, I could still outlift most guys way heavier than me.

 

[Scotsman]

All things being equal size does mean more strength. Two people who train the say and have roughly the same genetics except for size will have different strength levels. As far as moving an object like a car the bigger you are the easier it is to do as you have less of a mass deficit.

Conversely the bigger you are proportionally it becomes harder to lift a higher percentage of your bodyweight. This is why lighter lifters have a bigger coefficient than heavier lifters. For example a 100lb person has to lift 300lbs for a triple lift, a 300lb person must lift 900lbs for a triple lift. Now the bigger person is moving three times the weight of the smaller to keep the coefficient.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[ponyfitness]

i haven't done the research myself, but the kines majors i know tell me that people only recruit a certain percentage of their muscle fibers when performing a feat of strength. so people are only exerting forces that are a fraction of their muscles's potential. The percentage of fibers you recruit is partially determined by genetics, but can also be increased through repetition of the same task - your body will get used to the process and help you do it better. So a smaller dude who is highly trained and has good genetics can possibly take much more advantage of his muscles than someone who is noticeably bigger but untrained/naturally a clumsy noob, and be functionally stronger

Bingo. It's all about technique and muscle fiber recruitment, which falls under neuromuscular efficiency. That is also why some guys can bench a ton but can't do any other pressing movements - because all they do is bench. Make them do push-ups and they proportionally can't do as many.