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**PURE Ecdysterone: Mother Nature's Favorite STEROID!**

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Alot of the studies are a bit dated. I think Syntrax used some of the same studies when they marketed ecdysterone. Sadly, non-FDA or similarly regulatory companies just don't research these chemicals....while, glady, since they do not, everything would otherwise be subject to prescription or complete ban. It would be nice if everyone kept in mind that any real and pertinent results will be seen when people use the products...control groups or not. There is a reason why people on the boards have to do the best they can to produce information on supplements because JAMA and other "reputable" (cough cough...too afraid to emphatically encourage infant immunizations again even after the autism theory is bunk) organizations do not provide this information.

Anyone can produce abstracts, but the real deal is when people try products and make a sponsor golden on this site. Ross really seems to believe in his product just as I believe in my products. Just because the Mayo Clinic doesn't say these products work or not work doesn't mean they are invalid.

Primordial and AGX seems to do extremely well on this board...at least with their reputation from a ton of members. We little guys really do not desrve a break though. We do pay quite a bit to advertise here, but it doesn't mean that any of us deserve your business. Even if we never ever make a mistake and do our business with class, finesse, and quickly....it still would not mean that we deserve loyal customers. Rather than deserving it, hopefully we had earned it from people willing to give new people a try so we can all have a loyal customer base.
 
^good post from donnie, great movie btw still figuring 90 percent of it out

A big reason I like coming here: I can pull any abstract in existence in a couple of clicks from hundreds of databases online through my university

Its not nearly as good as anecdotal evidence I get on here. In fact I have a stupid hard time finding anything relevant to what we do in any medical journal. And yes most information you can find is sadly dated.

If you believe in your product then weather the storm, get it in the hands of a few good people, rest takes care of itself
 
signal22 said:
Man I never planned on posting here but I can't help it now.....
Full credit and respect to you as a mentor but you set a bad example bro, your posts are annoying and if you hate ross so much then keep out of his threads OK...... Your just un-Australian!

I'm not saying I agree with ross's therories, but atleast he can walk the walk as well, if you want to call him out put up some shots of your body so we can really make some comparisons you fool.


Odd that a first post would be in defense of Ross.

At any rate, no one is saying Ross isn't built. He's got great genetics and he uses quite a bit of gear. That's a separate issue from the claims and effectiveness of the products he's promoting.


I got a lot of shit about my products but I answered any and all questions and after a while, the positive feedback from the members was the best endorsement. That's all anyone is saying here. Answer all the questions and then let's leave it to those who try the stuff to fill the board in on how well they worked, or not.
 
signal22 said:
Man I never planned on posting here but I can't help it now.....
Full credit and respect to you as a mentor but you set a bad example bro, your posts are annoying and if you hate ross so much then keep out of his threads OK...... Your just un-Australian!

I'm not saying I agree with ross's therories, but atleast he can walk the walk as well, if you want to call him out put up some shots of your body so we can really make some comparisons you fool.

ross' alters here to attack me once again..

please state where i set a bad example? all i did was laugh at you/ross being pwned onca again, seems to be a trend for you/ross on these internet boards, anyone thats been around long enough knows this. iv never said i hated you/him, just your/his ridiculous theories you/he comes up with that have been proven on many internet boards to be bullshit. your just pathetic
 
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xrsist said:
ross' alters here to attack me once again..

please state where i set a bad example? all i did was laugh at you/ross being pwned onca again, seems to be a trend for you/ross on these internet boards, anyone thats been around long enough knows this. iv never said i hated you/him, just your/his ridiculous theories you/he comes up with that have been proven on many internet boards to be bullshit. your just pathetic

OK mate, I'd come back with a reply but you even took the time to edit your post after reading it over and over for half an hour....... Whatever.

Oh for the record, ross and all his theories can suck my rebel dick, I don't care who it is your bagging out, it's your piss poor attitude that's pathetic.
 
signal22 said:
OK mate, I'd come back with a reply but you even took the time to edit your post after reading it over and over for half an hour....... Whatever.

Oh for the record, ross and all his theories can suck my rebel dick, I don't care who it is your bagging out, it's your piss poor attitude that's pathetic.

there is no reason to personally attack a great bro and mentor, xrsist. keep it to pm's.
 
Ecdysterone seems to work well for rats and quails. I bet smilax puts it to shame in humans though.
 
Ross said:
I don't have TIME to deal with the forum nonsense anymore, LOL.


Ecdysterone has been tested for its effects on work capacity, immune function, lean body mass and fat loss, among other variables in a number of scientific studies. The vast majority of research indicates an increase in test subjects' lean mass. Results were further improved when ecdysterone was consumed with protein.


Increase Protein Synthesis and Invoke Positive Nitrogen Balance:

Studies conducted in the Soviet Union in 1988 showed ecdysterone helps "increase hepatic protein synthesis and subsequently promote positive nitrogen balance!" How does this lead to more muscle mass? Simply: "the more nitrogen your body maintains and the greater rate of protein synthesis, the more mass, period." How, exactly, does ecdysterone do this?

V. Smetanin, researcher of the Smolenk State Medical Institute in Russia speculates that ecdysterone decreases urea concentration in the body and increases hemoglobin levels by increasing a process called erythropoiesis. Erythropoiesis is the development of mature red blood cells. This leads to a stimulation of the anabolic process in protein metabolism, which in turn leads to a positive nitrogen balance in the body.

How does increased turn-over of red bloody cells stimulate protein synthesis in muscle cells?

Even if there is increased protein synthesis in RBCs (but that would be in bone marrow, not in the blood stream as RBCs lose their nuclei when mature), how does that relate to protien synthesis?


Increase Lean Muscle Mass While Reducing Body Fat:

The most often quoted ecdysterone scientific study was published in Scientific Sports Bulletin by S. Simakin in 1988. The objective of Simakin's famous study was to determine the effect of ecdysterone on muscle tissue mass and fat mass, while testing for hormonal changes in the subjects.

For the study, three control factors were used: a placebo, protein, and ecdysterone with protein. The results were significantly in favor of the third factor. Of the 78 highly trained male and female athletes who consumed just protein, they showed only a slight increase in muscle mass for the 10 day period of time.

Those who used a placebo lost a slight amount of lean muscle, while those who used protein plus ecdysterone showed a 6-7% increase in lean muscle tissue with nearly a 10% reduction in fat! Let me say that again: A 10% reduction in fat and a 7% increase in lean muscle tissue in just 10 days!

Safety testing was conducted during the same time period which showed no difference in hormonal balance. Wow, if ecdysterone plus protein can do this for highly trained athletes, just think what it can do for the average person!

Ok so what were the mean gains and mean loss of fat?

6-7% of 1 g of lean tissue is 0.6 g or 60 mg.

10 % reduction of what is a 'safe amount' to lose in 7-10 days of 1 kg/2 lb is an extra 100 g.

Most protein bars and chocolate bars weigh 250 g just to give you an idea.

I think I lose that much after a morning wee.



Increase Stamina, Endurance, And Energy:

Ecdysterone was tested in another study performed in 1986 by B.Ya Smetanin. For this research, 117 highly trained speed skaters between the ages of 18 and 28 were tested for work capacity, body weight, lung capacity and VO2 max. The results speak for themselves: all of the said parameters increased as well as an increase in the O2 pulse max and an increase in the exhalation of CO2.

Basically, they received more oxygen to their cells! This equates to decreasing recovery time, maximizing performance, permitting optimal muscle anabolism and maximum fat reduction. It also means the athletes using ecdysterone compared to those on a placebo experienced increased stamina, endurance and energy.

No percentage increases listed for this one. Oxygen is one of the most damaging free radicals in the body.

That's not all! A study conducted using 112 athletes performed by B.G. Fadeev in Russia showed some very impressive overall results. However, by this time, the results should come as no surprise. 89% of those who supplemented with ecdysterone versus a placebo reported less fatigue, greater performance, more motivation, greater speed, and improved strength. How long did it take before these athletes reported these effects? Months? Weeks? No, five days. To make matters even better, no adverse side effects were reported.

So this was a subjective questionaire? I could pull up a very recent abstract about the placebo effect of supplements.



Ecdysterone compared to methandrostenolone (D-Bol):

The action of methandrostenolone and ecdysterone on the physical endurance of animals and on protein metabolism in the skeletal muscles.

Author:
Chermnykh NS ; Shimanovski¨ i NL ; Shutko GV ; Syrov VN
Farmakol Toksikol, 51(6):57-60 1988 Nov-Dec

Abstract:
The results of the comparative study on the myotropic activity of methandrostenolone and ecdysterone and their effects on physical endurance of animals suggested that ecdysterone possessing a wider spectrum of the anabolic action on the contractile proteins of the skeletal muscles exerts a more pronounced influence on physical endurance of animals without their preliminary training.

Buzz word in scientific papers. Sort of like 'adequate'.



This study shows anabolic effects with no androgenic effects as compared to D-bol:

Anabolic activity of phytoecdysone-ecdysterone isolated from Rhaponticum carthamoides.

Author:
Syrov VN ; Kurmukov AG
Farmakol Toksikol, 39(6):690-3 1976 Nov-Dec

Abstract:
Introduction of phytiexdizone-exdisterone (0.5 mg/100 g) to rats for 7 days is shown to be attended by an accelerated body weight gain and also by a rising weight of the liver, heart, kidneys and musculus tibialis anterior. In these organs the total amount of protein increases. All of the above-stated changes are more marked when the substance is given to growing rats (70--80 g).



In experiments on castrated sexually immature rats the androgenic action of exdisterone, unlike that of methandrostenolone, is not demonstrable.

Experiments on rats. While it would be great if we could use rats to see what happens in humans, it doesn't work that way. Again, only suggestive of an effect.

Really old experiment, doesn't say how many rats............



Positive insulin response:

The effect of nerobol and ecdysterone on insulin-dependent processes linked normally and in insulin resistance

Author:
Kosovski¨ i MI ; Syrov VN ; Mirakhmedov MM ; Katkova SP ; Khushbaktova ZA
Probl Endokrinol (Mosk), 35(5):77-81 1989 Sep-Oct

Abstract:
The effect of substances with anabolic activity (metandienone and ecdysterone phytoecdysteroid) on the manifestation of insulin effects was studied on a model of insulin resistance in rats induced by injections of hydrocortisone or by insulin insufficiency caused by alloxan.

The sensitivity of the body to i. v. infusion of insulin and the reactivity of isolated fatty tissue to the hormone were increased after administration of these substances to test animals.

The above effects of steroids were determined by nonspecific synthesis of total proteins in cells rather than by an increase in insulin secretion.

Is that a design study error? You would need to read the whole paper to know for sure.




Also a very very strong adaptogen and antioxidant:

Antioxidant effect of 20-hydroxyecdysone in a model system

Kuz'menko AI - Ukr Biokhim Zh - 1999 May-Jun; 71(3): 35-8

Original Title:
Izuchenie antiokislitel'nogo effekta 20-gidroksiekdizona v model'noi sisteme.

Abstract:
Changes in the level of lipid free-radical oxidation in mitochondrial fraction at the presence of 20-hydroxyecdysone in 1, 2, 4, 6, 8 microM concentration with the help of a chemiluminescence (ChL) method were investigated in vitro.

Done in a test tube from a substance derived from cell fractionation.

Great, but the substance still have to get to the inner mitochondria, that is three cell membranes, and getting stuff through membranes is almost ALWAYS the rate limiting step in anabolic processes.


Statistically authentic reduction of ChL kinetic parameters--I(s) and tg alpha, at 20-hydroxyecdysone presence in concentration of 2 microM was found. 20-hydroxyecdysone administration in concentration 4 microM and more leads to the statistically authentic change of all four ChL parameters.

That means that the reaction happened more slowly. The more concentrated the extract, the slower it got.

The antioxidizing effect of 20-hydroxyecdysone was compared with action of such antioxidant as a hydroquinone. The higher activity of 20-hydroxyecdysone as an antioxidant in comparison with the hydroquinone was shown.

For changes of all four measured kinetic parameters of ChL, concentration of the hydroquinone as much 2-fold than for 20-hydroxyecdysone is necessary. On the basis of our researches in the model system a conclusion was made that 20-hydroxyecdysone has an antioxidizing action on lipid free radical oxidation in mitochondrial fraction in dependents on concentration.

20-Hydroxyecdysone has antioxidizing properties directly, in these conditions in vitro, when its metabolites formation does not occur yet.

Unless your mitochondria rupture and spill their contents all over the cells, then the significance of this study?????





Anabolic activity of Ecdysterone in Quail

Insect hormones in vertebrates: anabolic effects of 20-hydroxyecdysone in Japanese quail

Slama K - Experientia - 1996 Jul 15; 52(7): 702-6

Authors:
Slama K; Koudela K; Tenora J; Mathova A

Abstract:
Ecdysteroids are hormones controlling cell proliferation, growth and the developmental cycles of insects and other invertebrates. They are occasionally present in various unrelated plants for no apparent reason; no phytohormonal function has yet been identified. In certain cases, ecdysteroids are accumulated to high levels in leaves, roots or seeds. Some ecdysteroid-containing plants have been known as medicinal plants for centuries.

One of them, Leuzea carthamoides Iljin (Asteraceae), growing in Central Asia, contains 0.4% ecdysteroid in dry roots and 2% in seeds. A pharmacological preparation from this plant, "Ecdisten', is already available as a commercial preparation for its anabolic, tonic and other effects, for medical use (review).


It remained problematic, however, whether ecdysteroids were truly responsible for these effects, because Leuzea contains a number of other biologically active compounds in addition to ecdysteroids.

We extracted and purified ecdysteroids from the seeds of Leuzea. With 6 g of 96% 20-hydroxyecdysone (20E), we made a large-scale feeding assay with Japanese quail to find out whether ecdysteroid alone could duplicate the anabolic effects of the seeds.

We found that the 96% ecdysteroid increased the mass of the developing quails in a dose-dependent manner, with the rate of increase proportional to the ecdysteroid content in the seeds; there was a 115% increase in living mass with 100 mg kg-1 of pure 20E compared with 109.5% increase with 100-180 mg kg-1 20E equivalents in the seeds.

We conclude that the plethora of growth-promoting, vitamin-like effects induced in vertebrates by Leuzea is mediated by ecdysteroids.


Again it is a study showing mass increase in GROWING/DEVELOPING animal. Birds and rat studies....................



Study demonstrating the Anabolic effect of 6-Keto Diosgenin

[Experimental study of the anabolic activity of 6-ketoderivatives of certain natural sapogenins][Article in Russian]


Syrov VN, Kurmukov AG.

It is shown that 6-ketoderivatives of natural sapogenins, viz. agigenin, diosgenin and alliogenin, display the anabolic activity and do not manifest any androgenic properties. The compoud IV/(25 R)-5alpha-spirostan-2alpha, 3beta, 5alpha-triol-6-OH/produces an accelerated gain of weight in rats, and also an increase in the weight of the liver, heart, kidneys, musculus tibiliasis anterior and augments the total amount of protein therein. All of the above-mentioned changes become more pronounced with the study substance introduced to young animals. Castration of sexually immature rats greatly mitigates the anabolic effect of the compound IV.

Same as above




PMID: 1028596 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Again, your citation leaves a bit to be desired, no dates for some.

None of the journals that cited these research papers are known as really reputable journals.

ALL scientists know the 'good ones' and want their work published in certain journals.


Would you mind posting links to the abstracts or full papers?

No offense Ross, but if you are going to use science to prove things, there is a certain format and literacy that is required, otherwise, it is like all those Muscletech info-adverts.
 
Excellent post and I do agree....IMO real feedback is the true test. I have heard good things about PP products across ALL the boards, and I will admit I was VERY skeptical at first...Still have never tried it.

However the feedback PP has recieved has been nothing but positive so far{at least what I have seen}. AGX seems to have a very nice following as well. Donnie I think the way you look at it as a business man is refreshing, and IMO it's just a matter of time and you will have earned ALL of your clients.

Just like some of us have to work for our online reputations, supplement companies have to do the same by producing a product that works, advertising that is eye catching, and customer service that is second to none. I think if one presents this package then they will be a success.

Of course legit science to back up a claim would be great as well...but IMO the proof is in the pudding and if the pudding is working for most everyone...Well then thats saying something to me.
Donnie Darko said:
Alot of the studies are a bit dated. I think Syntrax used some of the same studies when they marketed ecdysterone. Sadly, non-FDA or similarly regulatory companies just don't research these chemicals....while, glady, since they do not, everything would otherwise be subject to prescription or complete ban. It would be nice if everyone kept in mind that any real and pertinent results will be seen when people use the products...control groups or not. There is a reason why people on the boards have to do the best they can to produce information on supplements because JAMA and other "reputable" (cough cough...too afraid to emphatically encourage infant immunizations again even after the autism theory is bunk) organizations do not provide this information.

Anyone can produce abstracts, but the real deal is when people try products and make a sponsor golden on this site. Ross really seems to believe in his product just as I believe in my products. Just because the Mayo Clinic doesn't say these products work or not work doesn't mean they are invalid.

Primordial and AGX seems to do extremely well on this board...at least with their reputation from a ton of members. We little guys really do not desrve a break though. We do pay quite a bit to advertise here, but it doesn't mean that any of us deserve your business. Even if we never ever make a mistake and do our business with class, finesse, and quickly....it still would not mean that we deserve loyal customers. Rather than deserving it, hopefully we had earned it from people willing to give new people a try so we can all have a loyal customer base.
 
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