Proviron does not hinder hpta recovery

[Nelson Montana]

Yeah, it's hard on the hair but I think the role of DHT on hair loss is a little exagerated. If that's all it was, they could find a cure easily. If you have a predisposition to baldness, any androgen is going to exasperate it.

You can always use nizerol and some saw palmetto your scalp to counteract the effects.

 

[Juice Authority]

One small, but very important distinction here guys. And I am no expert on such things, but really, this is a point to be considered.

There is a difference between:

Something that will NOT shut down or supress a normally functioning HPTA, and

Something that will prevent an abnormally functioning HPTA from recovering.

These are NOT the same phenomena or attributes.

From what I understand (and no, I cant point to studies or references, its just based on my obesrvations and what I have read over several years), Proviron will NOT shut you down if all is Normal and well.

However IF your HPTA is down and you are trying to recover, it will PREVENT recovery from taking place.

This study would indicate differently...

Int J Gynaecol Obstet 1988 Feb;26(1):121-8 Related Articles, Links


The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

PMID: 2892728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Juice Authority]

Yeah, it's hard on the hair but I think the role of DHT on hair loss is a little exagerated. If that's all it was, they could find a cure easily. If you have a predisposition to baldness, any androgen is going to exasperate it.

You can always use nizerol and some saw palmetto your scalp to counteract the effects.

Did you get my pm?

 

[Vítor Rage]

Perfect , Nelson !!!

In my life i did about 8 cycles .
In the first 6 cycles my program of recovery was that stupid classic option with HCG and CLOMID (and/or nolvadex and/or arimidex) and i was never happy with the results... dalayed recovey, limp dick, bad mood , weakness and so on...

In my last two cycles i decided that was time to make a change ... no more clomid, no more nolva ,no more HCG , no more arimidex, just proviron to sustain the androgen level and let the body recover... even though some frinds told me that was a crazy option :" You will crash hard , dumbass!!!" or "This fuck proviron will only shut you down more and delay your recovery"

But the results i got from this were really astonishing !!!
I did not crash ... I handle a very good percent of results i got from the cycle (much more that i handle with the HCG/clomid/nolva) ... I got no sexual problems (my girlfriends loved it) ... No mood changes ...
And no, proviron didn't delayed my recovery cause i stopped it and really feel like i was recuperated my HTPA (morning woods, normal stenght to workout , libido and erectile function okay).

As for hair loss, this is always a big issue since i have strong tendency to MPB , so i keep using nizoral shampoo ED + finasteride 1mg/day and at least for me , i never got sides from finasteride and i used it for 4 years.) My MPB is completely at control , i really do not lose hair during or after cycle with this treatment.

Nelson Montana , thank you all those good info you put here on EF.

I know and always tell that everyone is different but for me this was really a very important thing im my bodybuilding life.

 

[Riker29]

This study would indicate differently...

I was not arguing with the study, I was point out an aspect of logical thinking that many guys tend to leap over,

Its like saying "all corvettes are fast cars" does not allow one to conclude that "all fast cars are corvettes".

Many guys wil show a study that says "Proviron won't supress HPTA" and then they leap to a concluson that "Proviron wont prevent HPTA recovery".

Not the same thing.

Yes, you may be correct in this instance, its just that the first study seemed a little bit more geared to saying that it does not supress HPTA, and in my mind, that dos not allow for the leap of logoc that say it wont prevent recovery.

 

[Juice Authority]

I was not arguing with the study, I was point out an aspect of logical thinking that many guys tend to leap over,

Its like saying "all corvettes are fast cars" does not allow one to conclude that "all fast cars are corvettes".

Many guys wil show a study that says "Proviron won't supress HPTA" and then they leap to a concluson that "Proviron wont prevent HPTA recovery".

Not the same thing.

Yes, you may be correct in this instance, its just that the first study seemed a little bit more geared to saying that it does not supress HPTA, and in my mind, that dos not allow for the leap of logoc that say it wont prevent recovery.

I never said you were trying to be argumentative so maybe that came out wrong. You're right, the study I posted did need additional clarification, which is why I posted the second study. I must say you do have a strong command of the english language though. It's always interesting reading your posts.

 

[Riker29]

I never said you were trying to be argumentative so maybe that came out wrong. You're right, the study I posted did need additional clarification, which is why I posted the second study. I must say you do have a strong command of the english language though. It's always interesting reading your posts.

Thanks. I have studied NLP, Linguistics, Hypnosis, and Mind Sciences. Plus ... I teach guys how to use many of these skills with women (not kidding - http://www.daveriker.com/coach/).

Interestingly I have learned a TON from the back-and-forth banter between you and Nelson. It's great that you guys are getting along better these days. I think his "shit taste study" comment broke the ice. LOL

Anyway I like reading your stuff as well. The dialog between the likes of you and Nelson, althoguh heated at times (but that has botteg better) has helped many gusy learn a LOT.

Now if we could just get guys to agree on post-cycle regimens, and whether or not low-dose morning dbol is supressive ...then all would be Right with the world. LOL.

 

[Juice Authority]

Thanks. I have studied NLP, Linguistics, Hypnosis, and Mind Sciences. Plus ... I teach guys how to use many of these skills with women (not kidding - http://www.daveriker.com/coach/).

Interestingly I have learned a TON from the back-and-forth banter between you and Nelson. It's great that you guys are getting along better these days. I think his "shit taste study" comment broke the ice. LOL

Anyway I like reading your stuff as well. The dialog between the likes of you and Nelson, althoguh heated at times (but that has botteg better) has helped many gusy learn a LOT.

Now if we could just get guys to agree on post-cycle regimens, and whether or not low-dose morning dbol is supressive ...then all would be Right with the world. LOL.

Thanks. I appreciate the kind remarks. We're actually discussing the ideal post-cycle regimen at FG right now. Everyone is waiting on Nelson to chime about the "Post-cycle" formula from PT he helped design. Here's where we are so far...

http://www.fitnessgeared.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22688&perpage=35&pagenumber=2

Well, unintentionally I think we've collectively come up with a post-cycle formula that might actually work. Let's recap..

To help with Lipid Profile:

Guggulsterones: 180mg/day
Policosanol: 40mg/day
Green Tea(45% ECGCG): 1g/day
Tocotreniols: 1g/day(A way more potent form of Vitamin E)
Garlic(Kyolic): 1g/day
(Novaldex: 20mg/day) - also to keep estrogen from binding to the HPTA

Provirion - 25-50mg's ED

- Acts like an anti-e since it's a DHT and doesn't aromatize
- To help keep estrogen levels in check
- To help erectile dysfunction
- It does not lower FSH (like Clomid)
- It does not lower IGF-1
- It is not site specific, removing estrogen throughout the body
- It lowers SHBG (which Clomid raises) thereby incresing testosterone
- It is side effect free in the recommended dosages. (i.e. vision disturbances, acne, etc) - unlike clomid
It can not lower your e too much (like A-dex does)
- since it is not an estrogen "blocker" it does not have the possible rebound effect of nolva.
- It does not afect mood negitively like Clomid.
- It gets you hard as a rock!
- It gets you dick hard as a rock!

Nelson's post cycle formula - (Maca, Chrysin, Milk Thistle, Cndium, etc).

- To help restore hpta
- Nelson - ?

exemestane - ?

 

[Riker29]

Thanks. I appreciate the kind remarks. We're actually discussing the ideal post-cycle regimen at FG right now.

Have you seen this:

http://www.anabolicfitness.net/library/recovery.htm

??????

 

[Bad Black]

Yeah, it's hard on the hair but I think the role of DHT on hair loss is a little exagerated. If that's all it was, they could find a cure easily. If you have a predisposition to baldness, any androgen is going to exasperate it.

You can always use nizerol and some saw palmetto your scalp to counteract the effects.

personally i use SP, and nizoral 2%, as well as spironolactone topical, on or off cycle (and some minoxidil on the "bald spot area" since its cheap online). so long as you do that, your right, i don't think proviron or winny or anything will accelerate hair loss that wasn't already going to happen anyway.