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needtogetaas
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yup, I mentioned DAA as well...I've read about DAA... in fact, the results of DAA are debated these days... the quantity required to produce the (I think I read) 33% increase in testosterone in the ONE study out there, was 3grams per day... I dunno how much is in any of the supplements out there, but I know you can get it in bulk... so I may try DAA
I still need to figure out if any of this stuff is beneficial to HRT guys... I guess I'm gonna have to find out for myself
thanks for the feedback dude!
My friend the NTBM-DAA gives you a little over 3 grames a day for 30 days and its less then 20 bucks when you use the discount plus I ship all orders for free. But lets talk more about the products you are asking about and how they can help you and even in my opinion replace your hrt and get you off it for good.
First off if you are not highly interested in learning and expanding your base of knowledge then don't bother participating in this thread. If you are not willing to read and have a "adult" conversation then dont bother speaking in this thread.
In a normal healthy male luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) are sent from the brain (the pituitary) to stimulate the testes to make testosterone and sperm. The release of LH & FSH from the pituitary is stimulated by Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus is stimulated to produce GnRH when it senses low levels of testosterone and estrogen.
(hypothalamus [GnRH] --- > pituitary [LH & FSH]--- >(hcg would be placed here if we placed it anywhere)---> testes [testosterone])
So although hcg may cause there to be less atrophie of the ladeg cells it in turn causes more atrophie of the pituitary.
7,8-Benzoflavone -- increases testosterone production by preventing the negative feedback of testosterone and estrogen on the hypothalamus through GABAergic modulation though. And although researchers are just beginning to understand how the GABAergic system regulates the hypothalamus and GnRH secretion its important to know that a lot more studies have been done and are getting done then you think.. One Natural ingredients!!! Like 7,8-Benzoflavone and other phytoserms one can find in products like forma-stanzol. (More on forma-stanzol later)
Now I am not saying that preventing the desensitization of the ladeg cells during a HRT is not a good thing. Because as we know No matter how much LH & FSH the brain secretes, the testes won't secrete testosterone if they are desensitized to LH & FSH. (remember, this can happen from too much, or not enough LH & FSH stimulation) During HRT there is a very very fine line we walk here.
hCG’s effect is centralized at the Leydig cells of the testicles and stimulates hormone function at the testicular level but does not reverse hypothalamic-pituitary suppression. Adequate stimulation from pituitary gonadotropins is required for the Leydig cells of the testicles to function independently in the body’s normal hormone axis. Some one HRT Is faced with this problem more so then anyone else.
of course during a cycle there are natural compounds and products that work through different mechanisms to prevent complete shutdown with out feather suppressing pituitary some through GABAergic modulation and some through others like with hcgenerate.
Hcg is a synthetic "out side source" of a hormone. So for the sake of argument and layman's terms ( so that you and everyone can grasp/wrap head around subject) I will brake things down and give them a names. The biggest problem some one on HRT is faced with is the fact that they are forever on a outside source of hormones that are sythatic in nature
Steroids,Hcg,drug serms, and just about anything manufactured by a pharmaceutical company that we have commonly used= Synthetic "out side source of the target hormone" !!!!!
Now we will give things like hcgenerate,bridge,unleashed/post cycle a name. Natural "bio-identical hormone" or "Homeopathic hormones" but in reality they have many names and even medically excepted ones like Phyto-SERMs, phytochemicals, phytonutrients , phenolic compounds ,phytotherapy, blah blah blah and a whole slew of other terms..
But for now will use the terms Synthetic and bio-identical hormones.
Are Main focus njmuscleguy would be to get you off as many Sythatic hormones and replace them with as many bio-identical
hormones as we can . Over time completely fazing out all outside sythatic forms and replacing them with your bodies on natural reproduction of Identical hormones. A completely Holistic Approach To HRT and or hormone manipulation. Something very very few Doctors,endos. even holistic health care professionals have any clue of. This is a extremely small Niche profession that very few understand and even less can except as most people have a hard time excepting anything they cant understand.
Although this is not everything and many of the natural and or even OTC hormones in the products mentioned work through other mechanisms and ways of action. Not just in a bio-identical/Homeopathic hormone manner of action.
Bio-identical/Homeopathic hormones are plant-derived and identical to the body's hormones. They are naturally the exact same thing and or they cause "natural" production/suppression of the target hormone.
Synthetic hormones such as hcg or a drug like serm are similar but not identical to the body's hormones. Furthermore they are "always" a outside source of the parent/target hormone. Moreover through manipulation of the hormone cascade they can also be used to suppress the production of a target hormone in the hopes to facilitate the production of another. We use compounds like Hcg and or clomid often notwithstanding the fact These slight chemical shift create a mismatches between the body's receptors ,Parent hormones,sister hormones, and or governing hormone cascade. Slowly moving closer and closer to the end result "HRT for life" .
Now don't pull out your pitch forks and torches just yet
I love my steroids,drugs,chemical enhancement just as much as the next guy and in fact IMO more. So lets not try and act like I am downing there use. On the contrary I just happen to be more of a nonconformist who believes that Both Natural and synthetic coexist synergisticly in many concomitant circumstances.
Now at times I think you are confusing Bio-Identical with Homeopathic . One naturally augments or reduces and the other Naturally replaces. Although all things considered Naturally replacing is often (but not always) the superior. This creates less of a problem in the way of mismatching, adverse reactions, or suppression then the chemical counterparts.
Now The first thing you should read from start to end is this.
Fadogia Agrestis causes toxicity and shut down? Needtogetaas brings light to the propaganda, lies and misunderstandings. Need To Build Muscle Inc. Official Blog
ANd then of course click and read all of the links at the bottom of that right up as well. Here in the above Article we find that hcgenerate can does, and will replace hcg but it does not even stop there. Read it and read it again. We are talking about a major Holistic break through here.
For you njmuscleguy I want you to also read the words of a man I know you would remember and prob have a lot of respect for. HIs real name is Jeff Storch but you may have known him on this site as quadsweep?? You been around the block so I am betting you know the mane.
OK the man is a great man and a friend to all. He was on large doses of steroids his entire life ( well almost). Currently He is in a bad place in life and I am doing all I can to help as a matter of fact this just reminded me I need to go talk to his wife to see if I can do anything.
OK
a few weeks past stoping steroids
OTC Supps…. Need To Build Muscle Inc. Official Blog
12 weeks after he stop taking steroids and was using only products I had planed out for him.
12 weeks and counting! Need To Build Muscle Inc. Official Blog
I would also read all the reviews at the bottom of the first Article.
Lets move onto other products and the entire subject at hand here. Lets start with forma-stanzol next
Forma-stanzol has both suicide aromatase inhibitors and serms in it . The product is made in a way where you can use a little or you can use a lot. The dosing can be changed for the long whole or quick crushing of Aromatace and prolactine. WHat else makes it a great choice for some one on hrt is that it lowers the amount of test converting to DHT. I don't treally have to go into a long explanation of why this is a good thing anyone on hrt already knows why.
Forma-stanzol's main active compound is formastane/lutheron tm.
Although "formastan" its self has nothing in common at all with nolva or clomid, forma-stanzol does. Nolva and clomid are serms and they block estrogen at the ER thus stopping it from having any effects on the ER.
However when on nolvadex or clomid the level of estrogen in your body does not go down but rather it goes up!!!!. You see, Nolvadex only blocks estrogen that's already in your body but it does not in anyway effect test from converting to estrogen. In fact by stopping the estrogen from entering the ER it causes your body to create both more testosterone AND ESTROGEN
let no one ever forget this. Your bodies level of estrogen goes up well taking nolvadex or clomid not down and anyone who has read a study or two and has been around a wile knows this. This is why it is very very very common for nolvadex and or clomid to cause what is known as "rebound gyno" if you use these product for pct with out a Ai or even better a "suicide aromatase inhibitor" (which is what forma-stanzol is) Estrogen going up during pct is not a good thing .
Now as you can see formastane its self and nolvadex/clomid are worlds apart. From here on throughout my explanation I will be speaking only about forma-stanzol as I feel it is the far superior compound because it has both formastane (suicide aromatase inhibition as well as progesterone reducing effects) and phytoserms (Phytoserm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) effects. On top of this it also has many other necessary effects for any prospective steroids user.
One Forma-stanzol's many characteristics is whats know as a "suicide aromatase inhibitor" of aromatase. This means that Forma-stanzol binds to the aromatase enzyme in a permanent and irreversible manner, rendering it inactive. The result of this is an eventual diminishment of aromatase enzyme in the body and a concurrent reduction in estrogen levels. A corresponding increase in testosterone production is usually experienced as well
It is important to note here that this deactivation of aromatase enzymes by forma-stanzol does not mean that your body becomes permanently deficient in the ability to synthesize estrogen. Your body will react to the deficiency of enzyme by producing more enzyme to replace that which has been deactivated. Therefore, when you stop taking Forma-stanzol your aromatase enzyme level will quickly catch up to normal and full estrogen production will resume.
Now Another important attribute to forma-stanzol is of course its phytoserm effects. Serm/phytoserm effects are important for pct because of there binding to the estrogen receptors, thus inhibiting estrogenic activity only at the ER. This causes a increase to LH & FSH levels, which in turn stimulates testosterone production. The important thing to remember here is although both nolvadex and clomid will do this they do it at a price! not only does the level of estrogen keep going up well taking them (unlike with forma-stanzol) but they can also be harmful in many other ways ( read post 6 in this thread to learn more about this. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/taking-anabolic-steroids-101-a-642856.html). This is why phytoserm's "medically and clinically" excepted natural serms are better. Combined with other compounds like the ones in forma-stanzol they are a much more effect form of pct or on cycle estrogen and progesterone control.
Furthermore forma-stanzols 7,8 Benzoflavone a neuro-active flavone has the ability to pass the blood brain barrier and block the suppression of GnRH release through modulation of the GABAergic receptor complex.7,8 Benzoflavone also has a positive effects on libido due to its aphrodisiac and anxiolytic (anxiety-relieving) effect having natural anti-anxiety properties, 7,8-benzoflavone my help improve general self-confidence and well being. But Forma-stansols posative effects on libido dosn't end there. As any well versed steroid user knows lowering progesterone can also have a very positive and profound effects on sex drive.
Forma-stanzol unlike any other Ai or serm also has anabolic effects and coverts to a anabolic at a "dose dependent rate". In other words when used at the higher end of dosing ( 10 pumps twice a day) after a week it starts to covert somewhat to a anabolic compound and adds gains to your cycle. Still when used at the lower end or pct stile dosing protocol ( 5 pumps twice a day) there is no worries about suppression because its anabolic conversion is again " dose dependent" and only happens at higher doses taken for longer periods of time. How Amazing is that? I dont know any Ai's out there that can clam this nor do I know one single Ai that also lowers progesterone too!
Because of the formatane and now added compounds in forma-stanzol Its anabolic/androgen effects are similar to that of the steroid primobolan Depot ( but only when used at higher doses for longer periods of time).even at the lower dosing It increases IGF-1 levels by an amazing 26%,and increases HPTA activity and testicular activity similar to a combination of hcg and Clomid!
All of this is backed up by " human" studies. Yes Real human studies don by well known Universities and agencies. Because for the longest time Lentaron I.M. Depot® was a proscription drug . This was not a drug that got scrapped because it did not work or because other drugs worked better. No this drug lost favor because many years ago the only way to use the drug was through injections. But because of the advancements in Trans dermal delivery Lentaron I.M. Depot® is back. With the help of NTBM and MRsupps.com its more powerful then ever.
forma-stanzol is a synergistic blend of supporting components making forma-stanzol a Highbred on cycle estrogen/progesterone control and pct drug.
Aromatase inhibition: 4-hydroxyandrostenedione (4-OHA, CGP 32349) in advanced prostatic cancer.
Comparison of the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodyn... [Cancer Chemother Pharmacol. 1990] - PubMed result
Biochemistry and function of sterols - Google Books
Pharmacokinetics of 4-hydroxyandrostenedione in ma... [J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1993] - PubMed result
In each of these studies we can see that despite that fact that 4-hydroxyandrostenedione has also ( in some studies) shown to be a "very weak prohormone" to the anabolic steroid 4-hydroxytestosterone, as an aromatase inhibitor it also possesses notable testosterone stimulating properties. The use of 4-hydroxy 4-androstenedione gradually increase androgen levels while simultaneously decreasing estrogen and dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Natural androgen production is increased by the stimulation of the hypothalamic pituitary axis via an increase in luteinizing hormone (LH) levels coupled by the direct stimulation of testosterone by 4-hydroxy 4-androstenedione. Luteinizing hormone (LH) is responsible for the production of total serum testosterone and testicular function. Formastane gives a gradual decrease in estrogen blood concentration which produces a signal of the hypothalamic pituitary ( again despite its very weak conversion to 4-hydroxytestosterone).
Whatever "weak conversion activity" it may have is more than compensated for by its ability to drop estrogen levels. This action of course reduces the suppressive signal estrogen sends to your brain.
In all of these studies Formastane was shown to suppress estrogen concentrations yet dos not suppress gonadotropins .
Let me further help you understand the difference and why one is good for pct (suicide aromatase inhibitors) and the other is not.
To understand why forma-stanzol may be useful while regular ai's (like Letro and A-dex) are not we'll need to first understand the differences between
the two. suicide aromatase inhibitors are actually steroidal compounds, while regular Ai's (like Letro and A-dex) are non-steroidal drugs ( no I don't mean STEROID LIKE YOU ARE HOPING LMOA)
Of course, there are some similarities between the two types of AIs...both
suicidal and non suicidal AIs mimic normal substrates (essentially androgens), allowing them to compete with the substrate for access to the binding site on the aromatase enzyme. After this binding, the next step is where things differ greatly for the two different types of AI's. In the case of a suicide aromatase inhibitors the noncompetitive inhibitor will bind, and the enzyme initiates a sequence of hydroxylation ( hence the name 4-hydroxy given to formastane) ; this hydroxylation produces an unbreakable covalent bond between the inhibitor and the enzyme protein. Now, enzyme activity is permanently blocked; even if all unattached inhibitor is removed. Aromatase enzyme activity can only be restored by new enzyme synthesis.
Now, on the other hand, most all other Ai are competitive inhibitors, reversibly bind to the active enzyme site, and one of two things can happen: 1.) either no enzyme activity is triggered or 2.) the enzyme is somehow triggered without effect. Thus essentially they can actually disassociate from the binding site, eventually allowing renewed competition between the inhibitor and the substrate for binding to the site. This means that the effectiveness of competitive aromatase inhibitors depends on the relative concentrations and affinities of both the inhibitor and the substrate, while this is not so for noncompetitive inhibitors. Forma-stanzol is a suicide aromatase inhibitor meaning that once it has done its job, and deactivated the aromatase enzyme, we don't need it anymore! Starting to understand now bro? Other Ai's need to remain present to continue their effects and this is why they are not the best choice for use during pct but forma-stanzol is..
Now lets look into the next few studies on formastane my friends.
Use of 4-hydroxytestosterone to lower estrogen levels in humans - Llewellyn, William Charles
This invention discloses methods of administering 4-hydroxytestosterone in order to lower estrogen levels in humans. As men age, a decline in androgenic hormone levels is typically noted, possibly resulting in muscle mass, bone density and energy loss. This is often accompanied by elevated estrogen to androgen ratio. Various methods have therefore been developed to supplement androgens for men with declining levels and/or correct this ratio. Some such have focused on the use of direct aromatse inhibitors, as a means of lowering levels of estrogen in humans. This invention is an improvement over the use of the aromatase inhibitor 4-hydroxyandrostenedione, in that the subject of this invention is an aromatase inhibitor developed by modifying an active androgen instead of an inactive metabolite. This may be a very advantageous trait for aging men who require a safe and effective way to treat estrogen/androgen imbalance
What role does estrogen play on LH and testosterone ?? Some people out there have been quoted as saying estrogen is needed during pct,recovery and or hrt??? WTF is that shit? Maybe good estrogen is needed .
Divergent Effects of the Antiestrogen Tamoxifen and of Estrogens on Luteinzing Hormone (LH) Pulse Frequency, But Not on Basal LH Levels and LH Pulse Amplitude in Men
We will cover the topic of "good" estrogen later. First lets go over the use of transdermal dilivery and make sure everyone knows without a doubt it works.
Transdermal Drug Delivery: PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE
Now let us take all of the above information and wrap it all together. For this I will use the word of some one else that way This entire explanation is not from my mouth and one can make accusations that I am only saying it because I stand to profit from it. SO I would read the following next.
Management of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid Side Effects by Author L Rea
What about Phytoserm-347 and what role does this play in HRT/recovery of the HPTA. My friends as I have always said I create products mostly for one reason and some times a secondery reason will often arise however let me make it clear phytoserm-347 main reason for creation was not for pct or recovery although for many it has worked great..
It is the single most powerful natural test booster I know of. It also lowers estrogen as well. I am not going to pretend that I have figured out its exact mechanisms of action though. Its lowers estrogen so I know it has some AI action and I assume this helps to raise test. I also suspect that it causes the body to release lh but in all honesty with phyto I feel as though it has other actions in how it raises test levels. Unlike fadoga and other herbs this has a dose dependent curve. In that to much or to little cause a lowering testosterone effect. It takes an exact dose for it to work but when it does it works extraordinarily well.
My theory however is this. If your ledeg cells are desensitized to LH and other hormones then nothing is going to work. Phytoserm is not a recovery product its something you would use after recovery IE after pct or stand alone. I feel it would do little to nothing for some one on HRT. Whereas Hcgenerate and forma-stanzol would do a great deal. Now after hcgenerate, forma-stanzol , maybe a run of bridge and then at the end of all this a round of phytoserm would be great.
Thank you
