Primary Hypogonadism?

[Straker]

Hi fellas, would really appreciate your views on my situation as it is driving me nuts. Here is a brief(ish) case history -

Cycle one (three years ago), duration six weeks, 40mg Dianabol ed, 30mg oral winny and 20mg nolva ed (starting from week two and continuing for two weeks after finish). Results - bloody amazing, loads of lean muscle gain, libido through the roof was an utter stud and seemed to remain so after cycle too.

Cycle two (6 months after first cycle), exactly same meds, timing and dosages as above. Results, slight gains but approx 4 weeks in lost my libido and experienced some erectile dysfunction. Remained so with slight improvement during the following year. I steered clear of all meds for the year following but never returned to my original natural state in terms of libido and virility.

Cycle three (now), ok, I have to give you some interim history before I describe my current cycle. I went to my GP countless times about my problems, he prescribed me viagra and put me on a waiting list to see the endo. Eventually managed to fast track my endo consultation by paying for it with my health plan at work (which took loads of messing about and being economic with the truth). Saw endo for six months without any major progress. He did the usual stuff, nolva prescription, lots of talking, full examination (stuck his finger up my arse to check my prostrate and I shat on his examination couch, lol), also prescribed me a herbal med (the name escapes me at the moment) but all to no avail, still feel down in the libido stakes compared to my natural, pre-steroid state. Unfortunately I changed job and lost my medical insurance so am now back on the waiting list to see him again. Ok, so now for my current cycle (please don't flame me for embarking on this cycle whilst I am not 100%, I'm really desperate to give my system a jolt and have nothing to lose in terms of further depressing my body). Currently on a cycle of test enth (500 ew) and taking HCG from week 3 (7 week cycle) at a dosage of 1,000 ew. Will pct with nolva. The thing that is perplexing me is that I am now 5 weeks into this cycle and have noticed no increase in libido or easing of erectile problems. I am gaining some muscle and weight but nothing like first cycle. If I had primary hypogonadism (which is what I assumed) surely I would experience an increase in virility. Could I have prostrate problems that the endo missed. I only say this because over the past year and a half I have had a change in my pissing pattern. I now tend to piss a lot more frequently but not necessarily dispelling much fluid. I, basically, have the urger to piss a lot more, especially around bed time. Maybe all of my sympton are age related and I have just accelerated the ageing process of my internal organs through steroid use. I am 35 years old by the way. I still manage to get it on with my wife approx once a week but it is hard work and is definitely not as it should be.

Well, a monster post wihich will put most to sleep I'm sure but if anyone can offer any advice or just their opinion it would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

 

[Straker]

bump for input, please

thanks

 

[Bulk32]

What was your experience with HCG? did you try that?

 

[Mr. Black]

Before you jumped on this latest cycle, did you get a comprehensive hormone blood test, if so what were they at?

 

[sigmund]

Before you jumped on this latest cycle, did you get a comprehensive hormone blood test, if so what were they at?

Yeah Mr Black is spot on.

You need to get blood work results to assess where you are. You're endo should have got you to do that already, do you have the results?

Things that may be of particular interest are:

Estradiol levels (sounds to me like your E2 may still elevated causing ED and lack of libido).

SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin) - I'd imagine this is high too due to the excess Estradiol - meaning you're free-test is probably low, again leading to lack of libido and sexual motivation.

Testosterone - may be lower than normal due to the negative feedback system, which acts upon high estradiol - supressing LH, in turn recucing stimulus to your testes, so they stay at a slightly reduced size with less output than before.

It's important to note that I'm guessing what your problem may be and it's best to get this looked at by a good endo who can find out for sure and help get you balanced out again but I hope this is of some help.

 

[Straker]

Since the problems began I have had approximately 14 blood/hormone tests. At first these showed slightly low test and extremely high LH. However, things normalised over the 10 months following the beginning of my problems, and over the past 18 months, whilst under the endo, my blood tests fluctuated slightly but came back pretty much within normal ranges, except for LH. I guess this indicates leydig cell damage, would others agree?

The last bloods I had were in November of 2004, they were as follows (normal ranges in brackets) -

LH - 11.2 IU/L (0.8 - 6.0)
FSH 5.0 IU/L (1.6 - 12)
Oestradiol 160 pMol/L
Testosterone 20.8 nMol/L (9.9 - 27.8)
SHBG 21.3 nMol/L (13 - 71)

Not sure if it has any bearing but my stats are as follows - 5ft 8 tall, 75 kg, approx 10% bf, age 34. Don't seem to have lost any strength over the past 3 years, just the normal bio-rythmic ups and downs.

Does the above indicate that I need a new set of balls or could something else be causing problems (if leydig damage, why doesn't endogenous seem to have much effect?). I know you fellas can't give me a diagnosis or prognosis but opinions and ideas would be really helpful. Could my prostrate be a factor?

thanks

 

[sigmund]

Since the problems began I have had approximately 14 blood/hormone tests. At first these showed slightly low test and extremely high LH. However, things normalised over the 10 months following the beginning of my problems, and over the past 18 months, whilst under the endo, my blood tests fluctuated slightly but came back pretty much within normal ranges, except for LH. I guess this indicates leydig cell damage, would others agree?

The last bloods I had were in November of 2004, they were as follows (normal ranges in brackets) -

LH - 11.2 IU/L (0.8 - 6.0)
FSH 5.0 IU/L (1.6 - 12)
Oestradiol 160 pMol/L
Testosterone 20.8 nMol/L (9.9 - 27.8)
SHBG 21.3 nMol/L (13 - 71)

Not sure if it has any bearing but my stats are as follows - 5ft 8 tall, 75 kg, approx 10% bf, age 34. Don't seem to have lost any strength over the past 3 years, just the normal bio-rythmic ups and downs.

Does the above indicate that I need a new set of balls or could something else be causing problems (if leydig damage, why doesn't endogenous seem to have much effect?). I know you fellas can't give me a diagnosis or prognosis but opinions and ideas would be really helpful. Could my prostrate be a factor?

thanks

LH is high but everything else looks normal, so I can see why you've concluded your balls are no longer as sensitive to LH as they were before...

It's a long shot but do you have a blood test prior to your AAS use (that shows testosterone and LH)? It could be that the problem already existed but you've highlighted it following your cycles.

You mention that LH was elevated to a much greater extent (in your early blood tests), do you remember by how much? Has it come down significantly? It sounds like you were still recovering and that your natural testosterone levels are at the higher end of the scale (this would also explain why your sex drive isn't as strong even though your T levels are now mid range – remember what’s normal for one person isn’t necessarily normal for another).

You also mention that your prostate is a concern, but it has been checked by a doc, did he say it was ok? Any sign of BPH? Do you suffer from prostatitis? Did he check PSA (Prostate-specific antigen) via any of the blood tests?

If all the above tests were carried out and tested ok, then I'd say it’s less likely to be an issue (but get it checked again to be sure).

Once again I'd like to stress how all this is guess work but I hope it’s of some help.

 

[Mr. Black]

Do you have any values for prolactin and Bio-available testosterone? Total test are only somewhat helpfull. However Bio-available or Free Test are the only true indicators of how much test is available in your body.

 

[Straker]

Hi all,

Apologies for not coming back at you quicker, haven't had access to a pc for a week.

In answer to the various questions asked, firstly, no, unfortunately I don't have any baseline bloods from before I embarked on my first cycle. Secondly, in reply to Sigmund, my LH has indeed dropped significantly. At the beginning of 2004 whilst i was totally clean my LH was up to 20.4. The endo checked my prostrate via a finger up the arse and seemed fairly happy (until I shat on his examination couch). The reason I asked about the possibility of prostrate problems was because of the change in my pissing habits. Basically, I don't piss with as much ease as I used to pre-cycle(s) and the frequency of my urinating has increased significantly. I shall do a bit of research on BPH as I am not familiar with the term and I will also investigate the prostatis. When I get to see and endo again I shall request some exploration in these areas.

The results I posted from my last blood test include all substances that were, and have been tested for. Perhaps my bloods have not been extensive enough. Again, when i see and endo again I shall ask for the the inclusion of more substances in my blood tests.

One general question, how common is it for users of gear to cause permanent damage through moderate/low usage? Any anecdotal or factual opinions on this?

Thanks fellas for past and future replies.