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Possible stupid question

bonacris

bonacris

Banned
About this time last year I did my very 1st cycle.. it was sust, deca and dbol.. with nolva as a PCT

I was recommended this by a friend and was stupid enough to actually listen and not do my own research. I gain about 35lbs and about 20lbs of that was water.. I didnt suffer deca dick but I did run into some other problems that left me literally scarred for life.. once I discover this site I got some post cycle and unleashed and started a 6week long PCT that seemed to recover me for the most part.. this was last January

I was thinking of running a simple test e cycle for 12 weeks but my main question is how do you guy think my gains would be considering I ran a cycle like my 1st one or would that even come into play.. I know diet is the main factor that affects gains but I just want to be sure that I haven't completely screwed myself over and can still make gains

Thanks in advance guy

My stats are
25yrs old
5' 10
191lbs
Bf was 9.3 in June but more likely 11-12% now after about 3 weeks of a far from clean diet.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
What where your doses of the compounds you were using during your first cycle???You will def. make some gains regardless.... Just have to eat and train hard... we are not talking about 35lbs.... but 10-15lbs is not unreasonable considering its your second cycle if all the key factors for growth are there....
Happy Pinning
Johnny D
 
you can definitely make some good gains with a test only cycle, regardless of what you ran before... what are your goals for this cycle? you could run an oral in the cycle as well...
 
My doses were sust 500mg a week Monday/thursday 10weeks ( I know now that this should have been 12 weeks)
Deca 400mg monday/thursday 10weeks
Dbol 30mg ED 5 weeks

Only used shitty milk thistle for liver support and had no AI or anything.for prolactin

But my PCT was nolva only ( hangs head in shame)

A possible 7 to 10lbs would be an ideal goal from such a cycle..

Dylan I'm still buying all by stuff for a hella cycle that you set me up with I was really just wondering if I do go back to test how I would possibly react.

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Whoa. Was that 500mg sust and 400mg deca in each shot? Or 500 and 400mg total for the week?

Next time u run test make sure run something like forma stanzolol with it. It will help manage that bloat among other good benefits. I bloat severly and those compounds u took were probably the top 3 for holding water imo.
 
Sorry I phrased that badly 500mg split into 2 shots Monday and Thursday 250mg both days.. same with deca..

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doesnt matter, you need an AI... your bloat obviously killed you... i would run a test only cycle, leave the nandrolone out... and possibly an oral for the first 4 eeks... keep it basic bro, so you dont kill your receptors... Make for better gains down the road.... 1110 mg of juice as a first timer is way too much... i did 250mg a week of deca alone for a second cycle and gained 25 lbs..... get bloods, and keep it basic pimp... and learn about PCT....
 
How does this sound for a simple cycle
Test E 250mg twice a week weeks 1-10
Dbol 30mg Ed wk 1-4
Hcg 500iu wk 4-10
Aromasin .25 eod wk 4-10
N2guard 1-10
Need2slin 1-10

PCT 2 weeks after last pin
Unleashed/post cycle
Hcgenerate
Forma 5 pumps am 5 pumps pm
DAA

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
bonacris said:
How does this sound for a simple cycle
Test E 250mg twice a week weeks 1-10
Dbol 30mg Ed wk 1-4
Hcg 500iu wk 4-10
Aromasin .25 eod wk 4-10
N2guard 1-10
Need2slin 1-10

PCT 2 weeks after last pin
Unleashed/post cycle
Hcgenerate
Forma 5 pumps am 5 pumps pm
DAA

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

I like it!
 
1Johnboy said:
That looks like a clean, smart and simple cycle there.

What benefit though will the need2slin bring?
Click to expand...

From what I've read its great for shuttling carbs into.the muscle, gives great pumps and lots of energy. It stops carbs from being stored as fat which I definitly don't want when I'm gonna be eating a lot more carbs this cycle..

Maybe that's all broscience that I've read but it apprears to be beneficial both bulking and cutting

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bonacris said:
How does this sound for a simple cycle
Test E 250mg twice a week weeks 1-10
Dbol 30mg Ed wk 1-4
Hcg 500iu wk 4-10
Aromasin .25 eod wk 4-10
N2guard 1-10
Need2slin 1-10

PCT 2 weeks after last pin
Unleashed/post cycle
Hcgenerate
Forma 5 pumps am 5 pumps pm
DAA

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

Great plan bro, and big props to you for learning from past mistakes, making necessary changes, and taking the right action and doing your research! :)

Good luck to you!
 
the important thing is that you learned your lesson and now can move on from it...

one thing you have way off is your aromasin dosage... it should be 12.5 mg eod... you have .25... im not sure if it was a typo or what but that is a big discrepancy there bro...
 
If you wanna cut down on a bit of water, swap the dbol for 6 weeks of epi for your kicker and it would help alot

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bonacris said:
How does this sound for a simple cycle
Test E 250mg twice a week weeks 1-10
Dbol 30mg Ed wk 1-4
Hcg 500iu wk 4-10
Aromasin .25 eod wk 4-10
N2guard 1-10
Need2slin 1-10

PCT 2 weeks after last pin
Unleashed/post cycle
Hcgenerate
Forma 5 pumps am 5 pumps pm
DAA

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

Bravo. A new guy who made his mistakes by listening to some shit bag then learning from his mistakes, researching, listening and getting his shit straight with a plan for the second time.
I applaud you. You dont see this very often.

a few points.... You never mix nolva with any sort of nandrolone. your lucky you didnt grow tits bro. Also I might add proviron throughout or at the end of the cycle. Nice synergy with the test. Or just run the proviron the last two weeks of test right up til the day before pct (50mg a day).

Also I wouldnt start the HCG til week 4 or 5. Thats when you will really notice shrinkage. Your just wasting $$ and HCG starting at week 1.
It would be a real good idea to run unleashed thoughout the entire cycle. You'll get more out of your test. Unleashed is great shit. Your not going crazy with the AI...I like that.
If you can get 2-3 doses of HMG for PCT that would help immensely.
 
stevesmi said:
you fell for the newb cycle that is all over the internet

dbol
deca
sustanon

then nolva for PCT

a friend tells a friend who tells a friend..

i get more PM's from new guys who fucked themselves from that cycle then any other!
Click to expand...

Hey Steve.....how bout a sticky called "Why Deca/test/Dbol/Nolva is NOT a good first cycle"
Including the dangers of nolva and nolva with a nandrolone, how an AI wont help with deca sides and all the other classic crap that these guys do wrong.
 
bonacris said:
My doses were sust 500mg a week Monday/thursday 10weeks ( I know now that this should have been 12 weeks)
Deca 400mg monday/thursday 10weeks
Dbol 30mg ED 5 weeks

Only used shitty milk thistle for liver support and had no AI or anything.for prolactin

But my PCT was nolva only ( hangs head in shame)

A possible 7 to 10lbs would be an ideal goal from such a cycle..

Dylan I'm still buying all by stuff for a hella cycle that you set me up with I was really just wondering if I do go back to test how I would possibly react.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

I have run that cycle many times (although i use clomid as well for PCT)

Clomid and Nolva was the PCT of choice until 2-3 years ago when all the Supps appeared. Now there is debate of what is good or bad but IMHO (yes mine) that recovers me very well and reading your thread you had a good gain cycle and recovered.

That cycle has been used for years - yes things move on with SUPPS etc but IMHo it was solid and you gained.

I use HCG a lot now (but i am a lot older and need more help) but i will be flamed all over the place but i have used that exact combination so many times and loved it every time and recovered well

I would not hang your head in shame i would be very pleased with those gains and you had PCT

Wrongun!
 
stevesmi said:
you fell for the newb cycle that is all over the internet

dbol
deca
sustanon

then nolva for PCT

a friend tells a friend who tells a friend..

i get more PM's from new guys who fucked themselves from that cycle then any other!
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity how exactly have they ''fucked themselves''? Not flaming but that cycle has been run many times with great results (i still do it now and have over 20 years of experience under my belt). All before n2whatever whatever or whichever supp was ever produced and marketed. Now i look at the supps today and yes they have some benefits (not all some are pure garbage IMHO) but what are these exact ''fucked themseleves'' as it worked very well pre all the supps marketing and still works well today. Yes you can add some supps but no need to chuck the baby out with the bathwater so to speak

IMHO SUS, Decca with a Dbol start is the best mass gainer i have ever experienced (with many many many experienced pro bodybuilders back in the day - pre mass HGH chemical warfare) that would agree

Interested in this ''fucked themselves'' what exact medical issues did they have as it seems you have had loads?

Wrongun!
 
Burnthiscorpse said:
Hey Steve.....how bout a sticky called "Why Deca/test/Dbol/Nolva is NOT a good first cycle"
Including the dangers of nolva and nolva with a nandrolone, how an AI wont help with deca sides and all the other classic crap that these guys do wrong.
Click to expand...

That would be interesting - Decca, Test and Dbol not a good combination - very interesting

i await the theory as i would say compliments very well and i am a walking testiment so are many many more of my age

What did everyone do before supps - guess all were skinny lol

Wrongun!
 
The thing they were getting at not if it is a good cycle but that the combination for a first cycle isn't ideal.

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness
 
Wrongun said:
That would be interesting - Decca, Test and Dbol not a good combination - very interesting

i await the theory as i would say compliments very well and i am a walking testiment so are many many more of my age

What did everyone do before supps - guess all were skinny lol

Wrongun!
Click to expand...

No bro...not a good idea for a first time. My apologies if I didn't specify. For a first cycle it's an awful idea. 3 compounds, caber (if your smart) and an a.I. most likely required. Too much for a first time instead of just getting used to test and seeing how you do with it, if you need an a.i. , if your gyno symptom prone ect.

As for the supps, your right 95% of them are garbage. Only ones I personally use are unleashed and hcgenerate because they do what they say. Pct for me would be drugs. But never nolva for me.
 
stevesmi said:
you fell for the newb cycle that is all over the internet

dbol
deca
sustanon

then nolva for PCT

a friend tells a friend who tells a friend..

i get more PM's from new guys who fucked themselves from that cycle then any other!
Click to expand...

that's so true.
my buddy listened to his friend and started his first cycle with deca/ test/ nolva...
didnt really screwed up much i guess but didnt gain much either....dont know about the suppression since he didnt mention anything...
now he is still doing the same cycle but higher dosage....sigh...
 
monk.. said:
that's so true.
my buddy listened to his friend and started his first cycle with deca/ test/ nolva...
didnt really screwed up much i guess but didnt gain much either....dont know about the suppression since he didnt mention anything...
now he is still doing the same cycle but higher dosage....sigh...
Click to expand...

Didnt gain cause I bet he doesn't know how to eat or train right?
 
dylangemelli said:
the important thing is that you learned your lesson and now can move on from it...

one thing you have way off is your aromasin dosage... it should be 12.5 mg eod... you have .25... im not sure if it was a typo or what but that is a big discrepancy there bro...
Click to expand...

No typo I actually thought I had my dose correct. I had read that a few people had taken .25 EOD because they couldn't split and do 12.5mg ED but I could very easily have read it wrong so my apologises

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Wrongun said:
Out of curiosity how exactly have they ''fucked themselves''? Not flaming but that cycle has been run many times with great results (i still do it now and have over 20 years of experience under my belt). All before n2whatever whatever or whichever supp was ever produced and marketed. Now i look at the supps today and yes they have some benefits (not all some are pure garbage IMHO) but what are these exact ''fucked themseleves'' as it worked very well pre all the supps marketing and still works well today. Yes you can add some supps but no need to chuck the baby out with the bathwater so to speak

IMHO SUS, Decca with a Dbol start is the best mass gainer i have ever experienced (with many many many experienced pro bodybuilders back in the day - pre mass HGH chemical warfare) that would agree

Interested in this ''fucked themselves'' what exact medical issues did they have as it seems you have had loads?

Wrongun!
Click to expand...

for a first timer they will blowup like a balloon on cycle, then when they come off they run into a ton of problems. deca dick, feeling like shit.. ultimately they give up on the gym. many take 6-7 months to recover or more. some guys have even PM'd me after a year they still aren't normal.

for a first timer who doesn't know what progesterone is, or esetrogen, or an AI.. etc etc. not a good idea at all.

i promise you if you run this cycle as a young newb and run it frequently you will end up on TRT at a very young age. thats not broscience that is reality. many guys on the net who recommend this ridiculously stupid cycle to a 20 year old newb are guys themselves who are now 35 and on TRT for life through steroid abuse.. hardly the kind of advice that would benefit a young person

and yes i have run this cycle myself and i went from 7% to 17% body fat over 2 runs.. but it also took me a year to get rid of that deca gut. I think there are better ways to bodybuild and much smoother AAS that won't take months to recover from.

as for nolva its shit, you won't win an arguement on EF saying its good for pct.. we used to have a guy on here who loved nolva, can't remember his name.. but he would argue with needto about it. well come to find out the guy has been on AAS for 2 years straight at crazy dosages stacking tren and deca. so he doesn't even CYCLE!!! obviously the nolva strategy doesn't work for him or else he wouldn't have the urge to stay on right?
 
Quote posted by Wrongun
Out of curiosity how exactly have they ''fucked themselves''? Not flaming but that cycle has been run many times with great results (i still do it now and have over 20 years of experience under my belt). All before n2whatever whatever or whichever supp was ever produced and marketed. Now i look at the supps today and yes they have some benefits (not all some are pure garbage IMHO) but what are these exact ''fucked themseleves'' as it worked very well pre all the supps marketing and still works well today. Yes you can add some supps but no need to chuck the baby out with the bathwater so to speak

IMHO SUS, Decca with a Dbol start is the best mass gainer i have ever experienced (with many many many experienced pro bodybuilders back in the day - pre mass HGH chemical warfare) that would agree

Interested in this ''fucked themselves'' what exact medical issues did they have as it seems you have had loads?

Wrongun!
Click to expand...

for a first timer they will blowup like a balloon on cycle, then when they come off they run into a ton of problems. deca dick, feeling like shit.. ultimately they give up on the gym. many take 6-7 months to recover or more. some guys have even PM'd me after a year they still aren't normal.

for a first timer who doesn't know what progesterone is, or esetrogen, or an AI.. etc etc. not a good idea at all.

i promise you if you run this cycle as a young newb and run it frequently you will end up on TRT at a very young age. thats not broscience that is reality. many guys on the net who recommend this ridiculously stupid cycle to a 20 year old newb are guys themselves who are now 35 and on TRT for life through steroid abuse.. hardly the kind of advice that would benefit a young person

and yes i have run this cycle myself and i went from 7% to 17% body fat over 2 runs.. but it also took me a year to get rid of that deca gut. I think there are better ways to bodybuild and much smoother AAS that won't take months to recover from.

as for nolva its shit, you won't win an arguement on EF saying its good for pct.. we used to have a guy on here who loved nolva, can't remember his name.. but he would argue with needto about it. well come to find out the guy has been on AAS for 2 years straight at crazy dosages stacking tren and deca. so he doesn't even CYCLE!!! obviously the nolva strategy doesn't work for him or else he wouldn't have the urge to stay on right?
Click to expand...

This is what happened to me, bloated like a puffer fish.. only good thing was I got cute dimples on my moon face.. motivation was non existent when on nolva. Luckily I didn't suffer the deca dick problems buy I can't imagine I was to far away from having some other sides.. BP wad thru the roof.. having run that cycle I def would not recommend that to a new user.. far to many things can go wrong especially for a beginnet

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stevesmi said:
for a first timer they will blowup like a balloon on cycle, then when they come off they run into a ton of problems. deca dick, feeling like shit.. ultimately they give up on the gym. many take 6-7 months to recover or more. some guys have even PM'd me after a year they still aren't normal.

for a first timer who doesn't know what progesterone is, or esetrogen, or an AI.. etc etc. not a good idea at all.

i promise you if you run this cycle as a young newb and run it frequently you will end up on TRT at a very young age. thats not broscience that is reality. many guys on the net who recommend this ridiculously stupid cycle to a 20 year old newb are guys themselves who are now 35 and on TRT for life through steroid abuse.. hardly the kind of advice that would benefit a young person

and yes i have run this cycle myself and i went from 7% to 17% body fat over 2 runs.. but it also took me a year to get rid of that deca gut. I think there are better ways to bodybuild and much smoother AAS that won't take months to recover from.

as for nolva its shit, you won't win an arguement on EF saying its good for pct.. we used to have a guy on here who loved nolva, can't remember his name.. but he would argue with needto about it. well come to find out the guy has been on AAS for 2 years straight at crazy dosages stacking tren and deca. so he doesn't even CYCLE!!! obviously the nolva strategy doesn't work for him or else he wouldn't have the urge to stay on right?
Click to expand...

I am not here to win arguments but will reply:

You blew from 7% BF to 17% - that is not the AAS that is shit diet and not knowing what you are doing. are you seriously telling me that combination of AAS will make you fat?

So if you do that cycle them you are confirmed to end up on TRT?

If you take Decca and mix with test you get decca dick?

It will take yo months to recover?

That has all come from your reply?

To be honest i will not converse as apparently if you just stick to test and take a load of supps then all is ok?

shocking it really is

Will leave you so called knowledgeable people to debate supps as they may not make you fat - No wonder AAS are illegal in the USA and probably for good reason reading that

Enjoy the supps

Wrongun!
 
bonacris said:
This is what happened to me, bloated like a puffer fish.. only good thing was I got cute dimples on my moon face.. motivation was non existent when on nolva. Luckily I didn't suffer the deca dick problems buy I can't imagine I was to far away from having some other sides.. BP wad thru the roof.. having run that cycle I def would not recommend that to a new user.. far to many things can go wrong especially for a beginnet

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Click to expand...

Of course you will hold water - you want the strength as you are bulking are you not? if not then its the wrong combination

Seems many do not bulk up on here as look at any pro they bloat as they bulk.

A lot has changed since HGH became so popular and affordable but i read on here all the time people who have trained for 12 months nowhere near the genetic peak taking HGH

Supps are about right for many on here IMHO

Wrongun!
 
Wrongun said:
Of course you will hold water - you want the strength as you are bulking are you not? if not then its the wrong combination

Seems many do not bulk up on here as look at any pro they bloat as they bulk.

A lot has changed since HGH became so popular and affordable but i read on here all the time people who have trained for 12 months nowhere near the genetic peak taking HGH

Supps are about right for many on here IMHO

Wrongun!
Click to expand...

I don't like to argue with someone who had way more experience than me but I just this is not a cycle for beginners.. its a sweet cycle but more for a vetern.. I would run it again but not for a few years..

But then again I was very stupid for not doing my own research but I wouldn't recommend it to a 1st time user..

Just my 2cents and thanks for sharing yours bro

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Burnthiscorpse said:
Didnt gain cause I bet he doesn't know how to eat or train right?
Click to expand...

training is good and hard but the diet not as good as he didnt increase the calories much.
He was told that deca gives lean gains and there wont be any water weight gain,.......but I read that deca really give you the mass and size instead....provided you eat..
 
stevesmi said:
for a first timer they will blowup like a balloon on cycle, then when they come off they run into a ton of problems. deca dick, feeling like shit.. ultimately they give up on the gym. many take 6-7 months to recover or more. some guys have even PM'd me after a year they still aren't normal.

for a first timer who doesn't know what progesterone is, or esetrogen, or an AI.. etc etc. not a good idea at all.

i promise you if you run this cycle as a young newb and run it frequently you will end up on TRT at a very young age. thats not broscience that is reality. many guys on the net who recommend this ridiculously stupid cycle to a 20 year old newb are guys themselves who are now 35 and on TRT for life through steroid abuse.. hardly the kind of advice that would benefit a young person

and yes i have run this cycle myself and i went from 7% to 17% body fat over 2 runs.. but it also took me a year to get rid of that deca gut. I think there are better ways to bodybuild and much smoother AAS that won't take months to recover from.

as for nolva its shit, you won't win an arguement on EF saying its good for pct.. we used to have a guy on here who loved nolva, can't remember his name.. but he would argue with needto about it. well come to find out the guy has been on AAS for 2 years straight at crazy dosages stacking tren and deca. so he doesn't even CYCLE!!! obviously the nolva strategy doesn't work for him or else he wouldn't have the urge to stay on right?
Click to expand...

hey stevesmi,

when you mentioned "run it frequently", frequently is how many cycles?
I'm asking becos my buddy is running his 2nd cycle of test e/deca after his first cycle of the same....think i better warned him in case he's thinking of a third same cycle with high dosages.
it is true that he doesn't know what progesterone is, or esetrogen, or an AI when he ran that first cycle but lucky for him, he said he didnt suffer any libido loss.
may i know what is "deca gut" that you mentioned? excess water weight at the waist?
 
Wrongun said:
I am not here to win arguments but will reply:

You blew from 7% BF to 17% - that is not the AAS that is shit diet and not knowing what you are doing. are you seriously telling me that combination of AAS will make you fat?

my diet wasn't shit.. it was just a lot of food. I also gained a lot of muscle but yeah you will gain fat when you bulk... if i didn't want to bulk i wouldn't of ran that stack. its not exactly a cutter stack

So if you do that cycle them you are confirmed to end up on TRT?

if you are 20 years old and you make a habit of running deca without the proper ancillaries and PCT. then yes you will end up on HRT at a much younger age than someone who waits till they are older.. you seem to not understand my point because you are too stubborn to connect the dots without me explaining things in black and white.. i'm not against that stack for a veteran who is older and experienced.. i'm against that stack for a young guy who no experience and not much knowledge.

If you take Decca and mix with test you get decca dick?

oh boy, not another person who thinks stacking test with everything is a cure all. stacking test with deca will mask things on cycle, but when you come off your estrogen and progesterone will be sky high and yes you will most certainly end up with 'deca dick' running test doesn't prevent deca dick. google how many people ran test and deca together and still got deca dick.. its the PROGESTERONE that causes deca dick. test DOES NOT block progesterone, it potentially makes it worse if the person is too ignorant to run an AI.

It will take yo months to recover?

it took me about 3 months to recover and i threw 3 PCT's at the problem.. including nolva, clomid and those other shit drugs you old timers seem to love. other guys that have posted after a year don't feel the same after a year and there is even several dudes on here with threads up who have said they have had to go on TRT in their early 20's from running deca in their teens. i can't believe you really think its a good idea to run deca when someone is young.

That has all come from your reply?
To be honest i will not converse as apparently if you just stick to test and take a load of supps then all is ok?
shocking it really is

no I would not recommend a young guy run any AAS. but deca is atrociously horrible and stacking with dbol and test will only make estrogen and progesterone worse.

Will leave you so called knowledgeable people to debate supps as they may not make you fat - No wonder AAS are illegal in the USA and probably for good reason reading that
Enjoy the supps

if you were around enough you would know guys like me and Dylan always recommend a pct that includes hcg and a small amount of clomid... as well as natural supps. its a combination that works well. i have posted bloods from my cycles showing they have worked.. and i have several logs up as does Dylan and the other mods on here.. where are yours to show how good nolva is?

also you should never run nolva with deca, that is horrible advice. nolva makes progesterone issues WORSE.. not only will you get nolva dick but you will end up with boobies as well.

Wrongun!
Click to expand...

bolded... get out of 1985. and don't ever smart mouth a moderator on here again, i don't care who you are or how long you have been on here. the fact that you would recommend nolva with deca proves you don't know shit, no offense ... we get hundreds and thousands of hits from google and some newb could read this thread and think its okay to run nolva with deca, you need to be careful posting bad advice and acting like the mods on here don't know shit.

this type of shit pisses me off cause when i ran deca i was told the same advice by internet guru's and ended up almost fucking myself up, thankfully guys like needto and many others on EF showed me the right way and i was able to recover without ending up with man boobs. i'm so glad i found EF.
 
Last edited:
monk.. said:
hey stevesmi,

when you mentioned "run it frequently", frequently is how many cycles?
I'm asking becos my buddy is running his 2nd cycle of test e/deca after his first cycle of the same....think i better warned him in case he's thinking of a third same cycle with high dosages.
it is true that he doesn't know what progesterone is, or esetrogen, or an AI when he ran that first cycle but lucky for him, he said he didnt suffer any libido loss.
may i know what is "deca gut" that you mentioned? excess water weight at the waist?
Click to expand...

deca gut is just excess fat that gets stored and yes water. but water can be gotten rid of easy but its hard to get rid of fat ... since you need lots of calories to truely take advantage of deca its common sense that you would gain fat on it. anytime you bulk and put on large muscle mass you are gonna put on some fat as well.

if your buddy is young then you should print out some of these threads on guys who abused deca at a young age.. the reason guys go on TRT from deca abuse is that deca esters stick around a long time in the body so guys will cycle off without being fully recovered and then jump back on.. if you do this continuously it will be like running one long cycle and can really backfire.
 
bonacris said:
This is what happened to me, bloated like a puffer fish.. only good thing was I got cute dimples on my moon face.. motivation was non existent when on nolva. Luckily I didn't suffer the deca dick problems buy I can't imagine I was to far away from having some other sides.. BP wad thru the roof.. having run that cycle I def would not recommend that to a new user.. far to many things can go wrong especially for a beginnet

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

exactly. its amazing how many times i heard this same thing.. I like your attitude bro like burn said earlier in this thread. its guys like you who end up being successful in fitness, willing to learn from their trials and errors.

i used to be a nolva/clomid guy too.. until i tried it.. i hated it and will never run that shitty pct again. a little clomid with my pct is fine.. but just stacking nolva/clomid is awful.
 
stevesmi said:
deca gut is just excess fat that gets stored and yes water. but water can be gotten rid of easy but its hard to get rid of fat ... since you need lots of calories to truely take advantage of deca its common sense that you would gain fat on it. anytime you bulk and put on large muscle mass you are gonna put on some fat as well.

if your buddy is young then you should print out some of these threads on guys who abused deca at a young age.. the reason guys go on TRT from deca abuse is that deca esters stick around a long time in the body so guys will cycle off without being fully recovered and then jump back on.. if you do this continuously it will be like running one long cycle and can really backfire.
Click to expand...

my buddy's not that young...early thirties.
he does cycle off his first cycle but dont know if he is fully recovered before going into the current test/deca cycle of higher dose than the first....yes...it could be a continuously cycle if he didnt recover fully in the first place...
he's trying to rid some fats of his lower abs so i guess deca will just add more fats to it instead...
the way to check if one has fully recovered is via blood test? any other ways beside that?
 
stevesmi said:
bolded... get out of 1985. and don't ever smart mouth a moderator on here again, i don't care who you are or how long you have been on here. the fact that you would recommend nolva with deca proves you don't know shit, no offense ... we get hundreds and thousands of hits from google and some newb could read this thread and think its okay to run nolva with deca, you need to be careful posting bad advice and acting like the mods on here don't know shit.

this type of shit pisses me off cause when i ran deca i was told the same advice by internet guru's and ended up almost fucking myself up, thankfully guys like needto and many others on EF showed me the right way and i was able to recover without ending up with man boobs. i'm so glad i found EF.
Click to expand...

So you gained '' a lot of muscle'' but yes some fat which is food not direct AAS yes - so we agree

So if 20 and run that cycle then you end up on HRT - is that just that cycle or any cycle - not sure about joining the dots or how that makes me stubborn i was replying to your text that you put

You said you would get Decca Dic when runing that cycle did i say that test cures it? Nope i said its not a given - so its a definite you get decca dick (i am aware what causes it) i was questioning why you stated factually that you would get

It took you 3 months to recover - wow have you had your blood checked as unsure of your age but would say that is a considerable time and many before the advent of the internet and SUPPS didn't take any PCT and recovered far quicker. I would research that with your doctor as that would concern me.

HCG is great and have used many times but guess i am not around enough - thought i did a lot of reading on here and have done for many years. What is the estimated log on time required so as to know about HCG?

I recommend Nolva? Where did i say that?

I posted wrong advice? where?

Whats it got to do with Needto?

Sorry is that all smart mouthing or asking questions on a forum? As for search engines then if they do pick up this thread then hopefully they will read to the end where you have actually explained rather than that AAS cycle will make you fat.

Technology and research moves on. I remember being flamed to shit about the morning after pill not being the new generation of PCT but AAS is all about opinions and what works for the individual user. History tells us that PCT is good practice it does not mean that people did not recover before it was even known about. Its all about best practice and being able to listen and debate what that is

Morning after pill - dangerous IMHO

HGH for anyone other than Pro - unnecessary and also IMHO poor advice but they are my opinions and why i read a lot but do not post

But hey smart mouthing (as you like to call it i prefer opinion) is one thing but maybe thats why thing move on rather than just taking it as given or we would all be taking the morning after pill today

Thats my opinion agree or not but if you think its ''smart mouthing'' then thats your privilege

Wrongun!
 
stevesmi said:
exactly. its amazing how many times i heard this same thing.. I like your attitude bro like burn said earlier in this thread. its guys like you who end up being successful in fitness, willing to learn from their trials and errors.

i used to be a nolva/clomid guy too.. until i tried it.. i hated it and will never run that shitty pct again. a little clomid with my pct is fine.. but just stacking nolva/clomid is awful.
Click to expand...

Moon face is a common side with Dbol and as a lot of water will be held. As with all bulking then its a means to an end to get size and you want the water retention for the strength.

Clean diet, right cals and protein. Hard training, plenty of rest and the water can be stripped later to leave the muscle

The water weight is not a gain a such its the difference from the start weight to the finish weight post water loss and measured agains the BF %age. This all takes time and some poor visuals when bulking

Wrongun!
 
^^^
you stated that nolva is a good pct for use after deca. which was bad advice. and amazing that you would defend it when the OP himself says it sucked for him.

you are welcome to debate when when you tell a mod on here "stick to your supps" and also "no wonder AAS is illegal in the USA" as if americans are stupid and you brits are geniuses thats pretty much smart mouthing and trying to cause trouble. all cause I merely stated a very good opinion which was that young early 20's old newbs have no business using deca as first cycles. and the OP himself fits that and had problems.

you should post up a new thread with your own deca experiences and how wonderful it is etc. but on this thread you saying deca/dbol/test is a great idea for a young guy when the OP had a problem with it seems to be downright silly.
 
Wrongun said:
Moon face is a common side with Dbol and as a lot of water will be held. As with all bulking then its a means to an end to get size and you want the water retention for the strength.

Clean diet, right cals and protein. Hard training, plenty of rest and the water can be stripped later to leave the muscle

The water weight is not a gain a such its the difference from the start weight to the finish weight post water loss and measured agains the BF %age. This all takes time and some poor visuals when bulking

Wrongun!
Click to expand...

when you let estrogen get out of control on cycle and go into pct with high estrogen and progesterone it will make recovery much harder. you should always run an AI and control estrogen.. no its not "normal" to have moon face on dbol. that is a sign that your estrogen is sky high and you should up your AI

going into PCT with raisin nuts and sky high estrogen and/or progesterone (from deca) is gonna make recovery hard..

this is why we tell guys to run hcgenerate and forma on cycle. not wait till pct to smash estrogen with nolva (your strategy)

again IN THIS THREAD we are discussing recovery as that is what the OP brung up. we aren't discussing the best way to increase strength. i think that is where we are not seeing eye to eye. HPTA recovery is the #1 thing when you are cycling AAS. otherwise HRT will come in to play and we don't want that for guys who are young

if we were only worried about strength and making the scale go up then run dbol/test/deca with no AI and lets do this.. love ya bro :) I'm just very passionate about guys recovering on here cause I was led on the wrong path when i was a newb (until i found EF)
 
stevesmi said:
^^^
you stated that nolva is a good pct for use after deca. which was bad advice. and amazing that you would defend it when the OP himself says it sucked for him.

you are welcome to debate when when you tell a mod on here "stick to your supps" and also "no wonder AAS is illegal in the USA" as if americans are stupid and you brits are geniuses thats pretty much smart mouthing and trying to cause trouble. all cause I merely stated a very good opinion which was that young early 20's old newbs have no business using deca as first cycles. and the OP himself fits that and had problems.

you should post up a new thread with your own deca experiences and how wonderful it is etc. but on this thread you saying deca/dbol/test is a great idea for a young guy when the OP had a problem with it seems to be downright silly.
Click to expand...

Sorry where did i say Nolva is good for PCT after Decca - am i missing something? I have copied my post below as i can not see it? Also not sure where i am defending it? Have i missed something?

Where did i say ''stick the supps'' i did not say that?

I DID say no wonder AAS are illegal in the USA because of your original post which is what i picked up on (below is my original reply) I did not imply that all Americans are Stupid - how do you know i am not an American? very strange comments indeed. As for you ''tarnishing'' all Brits - what leads you to the decision that they all want to cause trouble mouthing off and are geniuses?

You seem very upset i thought this was for debate and i questioned your original post which i thought was short and concise. Strange as thought AAS was for debate but it seems extended use has certainly put pay to my eyesight as can not see where i stated what you say.

Very strange and seems i have upset you which as we debate AAS use 9as if we didn't then all would still be promoting the morning after pill. Is that wrong then should we just agree with anything if not you are a trouble maker?

That being the case i hope there are loads of trouble makers as thats what moves AAS use forward through personal experience and new medical exploration or we could all live in the days of the China Man and shampoo bottles but thankfully times and debate have moved on.

You seem very agitated with me when i thought i have been couteous and put my point across that i did not agree with your original post. Is that wrong?

Here is what i put as i can not see what you say

I am not here to win arguments but will reply:

[/QUOTE]You blew from 7% BF to 17% - that is not the AAS that is shit diet and not knowing what you are doing. are you seriously telling me that combination of AAS will make you fat?

So if you do that cycle them you are confirmed to end up on TRT?

If you take Decca and mix with test you get decca dick?

It will take yo months to recover?

That has all come from your reply?

To be honest i will not converse as apparently if you just stick to test and take a load of supps then all is ok?

shocking it really is

Will leave you so called knowledgeable people to debate supps as they may not make you fat - No wonder AAS are illegal in the USA and probably for good reason reading that

Enjoy the supps

Wrongun![/QUOTE]

Wrongun!
 
stevesmi said:
when you let estrogen get out of control on cycle and go into pct with high estrogen and progesterone it will make recovery much harder. you should always run an AI and control estrogen.. no its not "normal" to have moon face on dbol. that is a sign that your estrogen is sky high and you should up your AI

going into PCT with raisin nuts and sky high estrogen and/or progesterone (from deca) is gonna make recovery hard..

this is why we tell guys to run hcgenerate and forma on cycle. not wait till pct to smash estrogen with nolva (your strategy)

again IN THIS THREAD we are discussing recovery as that is what the OP brung up. we aren't discussing the best way to increase strength. i think that is where we are not seeing eye to eye. HPTA recovery is the #1 thing when you are cycling AAS. otherwise HRT will come in to play and we don't want that for guys who are young

if we were only worried about strength and making the scale go up then run dbol/test/deca with no AI and lets do this.. love ya bro :) I'm just very passionate about guys recovering on here cause I was led on the wrong path when i was a newb (until i found EF)
Click to expand...

Even more curious - never said let estrogen get out of control or debated the benefit of taking an AI. I also said ''Moon face is a common side'' because of the high estrogen i agree.

We are back to MY STRATEGY where did i say it was i am still lost on that one to be honest but ok if thats what you think - fine as it may help debate but its certainly not my strategy

The reason we are not seeing eye to eye is i picked up on your original comments which were very open for interpretation but what THIS HAS achieved is good constructive explanation from you which has quantified what you meant as come of the comments ''it makes you fat'' is just not true which i know you know but some newbies could possibly just take that as ''gospel''

As for strength and bulk then the whole point of MANY (not all) but MANY and would say a majority of AAS users is to get bigger. Not all compete but the general aim is to increase muscle mass which usually means bulk up then cut to look your best. Bulk with extra strength and then cut using diet diet diet.

I am also very passionate about debate on this subject as i have seen over the many years the new theories that have potentially dangerous consequences. I have also seen SUPPS go to a new level but some are good and some are pure marketing (which is the same with any product).

Most however is personal to what reacts well and hence why still i read every day learning and do not get involved int he politics but will speak my mind as see so many times ''chuck the baby out with the bathwater'' because a new theory comes along and is not challenged

If you feel different thats fine you are entitled not because you this or that but because you are an AAS user

Wrongun!
 
bonacris said:
I was thinking of running a simple test e cycle for 12 weeks but my main question is how do you guy think my gains would be considering I ran a cycle like my 1st one or would that even come into play.
Click to expand...

This question is unanswerable and any answers would be speculation at best. WAAAAY too many variables.
 
Wrongun/Steve lets cool it ok, Wrongun is a solid contributor to this site and i hate to see things get out of sort taken the wrong way,If we can't debate without getting into arguments then lets just stop now. Don't make me lock this thread, Love you both!

RADAR
 
Zyglamail said:
This question is unanswerable and any answers would be speculation at best. WAAAAY too many variables.
Click to expand...

Yeah figured there would be no concrete answers and all I would get would be maybes.. was kinda wishful thinking and was looking for reassurance that I had completely ruined my chances of have successful cycles in the future

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
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