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Pledge Of Alliegince..

covergrl80

covergrl80

New member
Not sure if this question has ever been asked here on EF.

What is your look on having the Pledge of Allegiance taken out of American Public Schools?
 
well i think of it like this. When i was a child i was programed to say it. I had no idea what it ment. What does it really matter do you think this little chant really makes a difference? How many people really say it and feel emoition? Everytime I have said it I did it out of presure it was the right thing to do. just being honest. and yes I love my Country!! But if you believe this chant really makes a difference. that you are one of those that thinks Rock and roll will kill your soul. dont lissen to that devil music. or what ever.. and when you sing the words to songs.. does that mean you really believe what you are singing??
 
velvett said:
I think it should stay.
Click to expand...

Me too.

I understand that some may not believe in "one nation under god" Then again no one asked them to stand up. When I was younger, there were people in my class that were against it, nothing was ever said to them. They just did not participate. I just do not see the fairness in taking it away from all children.
 
Covergrl80 said:
Me too.

I understand that some may not believe in "one nation under god" Then again no one asked them to stand up. When I was younger, there were people in my class that were against it, nothing was ever said to them. They just did not participate. I just do not see the fairness in taking it away from all children.
Click to expand...


Agreed.

It also supports giving children structure and understanding in doing tasks that they are asked to do and not neccessarily want to do with reward that does not come in any shape or form of a toy or gift.
 
Covergrl80 said:
Me too.

I understand that some may not believe in "one nation under god" Then again no one asked them to stand up. When I was younger, there were people in my class that were against it, nothing was ever said to them. They just did not participate. I just do not see the fairness in taking it away from all children.
Click to expand...


taking it away from the children? you make it sound like they are taking away a toy? will the chldren miss it? "oh i miss saying the pledg" :(
 
Extra_Strong said:
taking it away from the children? you make it sound like they are taking away a toy? will the chldren miss it? "oh i miss saying the pledg" :(
Click to expand...

You are just one opinion out of millions. Just because you do not miss it does not mean other children will not.
 
velvett said:
Agreed.

It also supports giving children structure and understanding in doing tasks that they are asked to do and not neccessarily want to do with reward that does not come in any shape or form of a toy or gift.
Click to expand...

Well why not make them say " i love all people and i will never harm them" that sounds better, and serves your purpose.
 
Extra_Strong said:
Well why not make them say " i love all people and i will never harm them" that sounds better, and serves your purpose.
Click to expand...

Well, no not really because you will not love all people in your lifetime and you will on occasion harm others - intentionally or not - whereas you can be just with someone you don't necessarily like.

I'm not sure how many people know this but "under God" was added by President Eisenhower in the early 50's and it's my personal opinion that the Pledge should go back to its first unmodified verse.

I pledge allegiance to my Flag,
and the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

Why?
It's not potentially offensive because of religion or flag.

It's a very small way of having some common ideal in common with others even if that ideal is fallible.
 
i think it should stay BUT who really even says it anymore? more people need to grow up learnign what teh flag stands for. that flag has been thru alot to get us where we are today...too many people take for granted what they have and what it stands for. same for teh National Anthem...i get watery eyes everytime i hear it in person or on TV.
 
It should stay on our schools.

This is directed at the masses of asses:
If you don't like it get the f...k out of this Great Country and go push your BS in some far of land.... oh wait they will kill you if you tried this crap anywhere else.
 
Parabellum said:
It should stay on our schools.

This is directed at the masses of asses:
If you don't like it get the f...k out of this Great Country and go push your BS in some far of land.... oh wait they will kill you if you tried this crap anywhere else.
Click to expand...

Really? Your post reeks of the type of totalitarian regime present in countries you then mock. Interesting.
 
Covergrl80 said:
Not sure if this question has ever been asked here on EF.

What is your look on having the Pledge of Allegiance taken out of American Public Schools?
Click to expand...


I think it's a good idea. The Pledge of Allegiance wasn't even created as any sort of official US oath or anything, it was written for a greeting card company and originally appeared on patterns for needlepoint samplers. I think it gained whatever official status it has during the early 1950s during the McCarthy witch-hunt years, which is also when the phrase "Under God" was added.

I don't think that forcing children to participate in the daily recitation of a national loyalty oath is really necessary.
 
Mr. dB said:
I think it's a good idea. The Pledge of Allegiance wasn't even created as any sort of official US oath or anything, it was written for a greeting card company and originally appeared on patterns for needlepoint samplers. I think it gained whatever official status it has during the early 1950s during the McCarthy witch-hunt years, which is also when the phrase "Under God" was added.

I don't think that forcing children to participate in the daily recitation of a national loyalty oath is really necessary.
Click to expand...

Please tell me the bold was sarcasm
 
velvett said:
Please tell me the bold was sarcasm
Click to expand...

Nope.

But it's not quite right.

After posting that I did some quick research. Guess I should have done that BEFORE posting... Anyway, it was written by some minister (a Socialist, by the way) in the late 1800s for a children's magazine. After that it was widely distributed on needlepoint sampler patterns.

It was subsequently adopted as a sort of official oath by President Benjamin Harrison.

The original version did not contain the phrases "...of the United States of America..." or "...under God...". The "...under God..." part was added in 1954 to differentiate us from the godless communists, and so that the pledge wouldn't be interpreted as a form of idolatrous flag worship.
 
Extra_Strong said:
taking it away from the children? you make it sound like they are taking away a toy? will the chldren miss it? "oh i miss saying the pledg" :(
Click to expand...


I second this. Kids being pressured in school to say that reminds me of dictatorships. AND, they dont even care about it. Only thing kids care about is to get out of school and go play.
Btw - I dont care if it stays or not
 
Pandora_ said:
I second this. Kids being pressured in school to say that reminds me of dictatorships. AND, they dont even care about it. Only thing kids care about is to get out of school and go play.
Btw - I dont care if it stays or not
Click to expand...

well maybe they should care.
 
You say that it is Not ok to pressure kids,So are you saying it's ok to take away there right to say the pledge everyday.

Where the pledged of allegiance came from is not in question here. And who cares where it came from. The fact of the matter is it has been in this country for years and that is what I was raised on, and my parents.

Like I said before " It is your choice to not stand up" no one is making you do anything your not willing to do on your own.
 
Covergrl80 said:
You say that it is Not ok to pressure kids,So are you saying it's ok to take away there right to say the pledge everyday.

Where the pledged of allegiance came from is not in question here. And who cares where it came from. The fact of the matter is it has been in this country for years and that is what I was raised on, and my parents.

Like I said before " It is your choice to not stand up" no one is making you do anything your not willing to do on your own.
Click to expand...


the question goes to you too - did you care about it when you were a kid or started to care and appriciate when you got older?
 
Pandora_ said:
did you when you were a kid? Or you started appriciating and caring when you got older?
Click to expand...



honestly ive always been patriotic and cared. im from a military family so maybe that plays into it. but since when do we ask kids what they want to do? dont we usually make the best educated decision for them?
 
Covergrl80 said:
You say that it is Not ok to pressure kids,So are you saying it's ok to take away there right to say the pledge everyday.
Click to expand...

Where does this come from, anyway? Who is threatening to take it away?
 
moose11 said:
honestly ive always been patriotic and cared. im from a military family so maybe that plays into it. but since when do we ask kids what they want to do? dont we usually make the best educated decision for them?
Click to expand...


I am just trying to understand (cause even though I was raised in socialism, nobody told us to say the anthem or anything else before starting classess, eventhough we had a picture of Tito in every classroom) if kids are affected by it or they just say it as robots to get it over with
 
Mr. dB said:
The original version did not contain the phrases "...of the United States of America..." or "...under God...". The "...under God..." part was added in 1954 to differentiate us from the godless communists, and so that the pledge wouldn't be interpreted as a form of idolatrous flag worship.
Click to expand...

I believe I mentioned that.

And for the record "Under God" was added more than 20 years later - "United State of America" was added back in the 1920's.

The first and best verision from the 1890's still, IMO remains:

I pledge allegiance to my Flag,
and the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

Leave it up to man to take something of beauty and twist into some self-imortalizing and bastardized version of itself for the greater good of his own ego.

Either way - I still think giving a child something to respect or something to choose not to is a good idea.
 
Pandora_ said:
I am just trying to understand (cause even though I was raised in socialism, nobody told us to say the anthem or anything else before starting classess, eventhough we had a picture of Tito in every classroom) if kids are affected by it or they just say it as robots to get it over with
Click to expand...

kids are forced to learn nursery rhymes and such and repeat as robots...do they all want to know about mother goose? who knows adults made the decision to teach that to them...why because we think it helps them....so does the Pledge...
 
moose11 said:
honestly ive always been patriotic and cared. im from a military family so maybe that plays into it. but since when do we ask kids what they want to do? dont we usually make the best educated decision for them?
Click to expand...

I believe when people starting crying over not using "red ink" to mark up a child's paper and other B.S. self-esteem/improvement tactics.
 
moose11 said:
u lost me
Click to expand...

It must be a Northeast thing. Your question . . . when do we start asking children what to do. My response is based on the things happening at schools to make children feel good. Schools have stopped grading papers in red ink, and doing other things basically keeping children "babies" a lot longer (IMO).
 
Covergrl80 said:
The Government,law makers,Supreme Court.....
Click to expand...

Sez who? Can you cite a source? Has this been in the news or something?
 
lotta idiots up in this thread.
Ive seen both sides stated so much better
 
nycgirl said:
It must be a Northeast thing. Your question . . . when do we start asking children what to do. My response is based on the things happening at schools to make children feel good. Schools have stopped grading papers in red ink, and doing other things basically keeping children "babies" a lot longer (IMO).
Click to expand...


OH ok yeah ive gotchya. yeah i agree thats BS everyone ISNT a winner and u have to TRY to be good at something. if ur wrong ur wrong correct urself if u dont liek the way that makes u feel.
 
BrothaBill said:
lotta idiots up in this thread.
Ive seen both sides stated so much better
Click to expand...

I wasn't quite arguing this point. But, yes, usually my posts are a little more clear. :lmao:

I have a lot on my mind. lol
 
LIBERALISM IS A DISEASE LIBERALS ARE SLOWLY EATING AWAY AT THE PRINCIPALS, ETHICS, MORALS, STANDARDS, AND WAY OF LIFE THAT HAS MADE AMERICA GREAT.

LIBERALISM IS A DISEASE!

I AM NOT JOKING.

THEY WANT TO TAKE AWAY GOD FROM THIS COUNTRY.
TAKE AWAY EVEYTHING THE USA STANDS FOR.
THEY WANT TO SURRENDER TO THUGS AND DICTATORS.
THEY DO NOT RESPECT AND CHERISH WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN AN FRANKLY SHOULD BE SHOT OR HUNG FOR TREASON!

I CAME TO THIS COUNTRY FROM EUROPE AND I APPRECIATE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN...

It pisses me to hell when i hear of some SocioLiberalistic piece of garbage Disrespect the US and say how awfull it is. Get the HELL OUT OF THE USA!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!
 
PolfaJelfa said:
LIBERALISM IS A DISEASE LIBERALS ARE SLOWLY EATING AWAY AT THE PRINCIPALS, ETHICS, MORALS, STANDARDS, AND WAY OF LIFE THAT HAS MADE AMERICA GREAT.

LIBERALISM IS A DISEASE!

I AM NOT JOKING.

THEY WANT TO TAKE AWAY GOD FROM THIS COUNTRY.
TAKE AWAY EVEYTHING THE USA STANDS FOR.
THEY WANT TO SURRENDER TO THUGS AND DICTATORS.
THEY DO NOT RESPECT AND CHERISH WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN AN FRANKLY SHOULD BE SHOT OR HUNG FOR TREASON!

I CAME TO THIS COUNTRY FROM EUROPE AND I APPRECIATE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN...

It pisses me to hell when i hear of some SocioLiberalistic piece of garbage Disrespect the US and say how awfull it is. Get the HELL OUT OF THE USA!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!
Click to expand...

so move to Russia douchebag
 
I think that most children could care less about it being in school. They say it because it's part of their routine, not because of some great understanding.


I wonder how many of the parents who are so worried about the pledge staying in school could tell you the names of their kid's friends? or where they went afterschool today?

Maybe that has more say in how a kid turns out?
 
OMG...here we go Grammar and Spelling nerds that have nothing better to do than to criticize one for typing at an extremely fast speed in order to post in all the threads.

Let me correct the sentance so you are not "offended"

THEY NEIGHTER RESPECT AMERICA, NOR THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS. NOR DO THEY CHERISH THE LAND WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!
 
PolfaJelfa said:
OMG...here we go Grammar and Spelling nerds that have nothing better to do than to criticize one for typing at an extremely fast speed in order to post in all the threads.

Let me correct the sentance so you are not "offended"

THEY NEIGHTER RESPECT AMERICA, NOR THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS. NOR DO THEY CHERISH THE LAND WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!
Click to expand...

Who said anything about your grammar or spelling?

Liberty and justice for all, but death for anyone who dissents from the conservative party line? You don't have a clue what America stands for.
 
i say leave it.
 
It is true that first and second generation immigrants seem to appreciate the freedoms that other Americans only espouse as rote. The pledge of Allegiance is just another multiplication table without understanding where loyalty to the ideals for which the flag stands come from. That is the only reason I disagree with it being force fed to the student bodies of our elementary schools. Build loyalty through understanding.

Memorization is not learning after the age of five.
 
PolfaJelfa said:
:wavey:

Macedonia ey?
Click to expand...


yeah, I still say that I am Yugoslavian. It stays in your heart, you know :)


redguru - what freedom, brohem? As a kid and teenager I had more freedom living in socialistic Yugoslavia then here in USA
 
Its not perfect anywhere.

Be4 i came here i was in Yugoslawia for vacation.
LOL..long time ago dont rememer much. But i know i like the girls from Yugoslavia, and also Czechoslowacia.

I think you know why :)
 
Pandora_ said:
yeah, I still say that I am Yugoslavian. It stays in your heart, you know :)


redguru - what freedom, brohem? As a kid and teenager I had more freedom living in socialistic Yugoslavia then here in USA
Click to expand...

When you were a child and teen, Yugoslavia was ravaged by nepotism, bigotry and anarchy. Everyone feels more free when there is no true Rule of Law.

I agree that the Pledge of Allegiance is nothing but words. But I also agree with the premises that those words espouse.
 
PolfaJelfa said:
Its not perfect anywhere.

Be4 i came here i was in Yugoslawia for vacation.
LOL..long time ago dont rememer much. But i know i like the girls from Yugoslavia, and also Czechoslowacia.

I think you know why :)
Click to expand...


we know how to have fun, thats why :)



redguru - back then it had more laws then now. I used to send my 5 year old cousen to get me wine or ciggs, I could stay out all night long and drink even when I was 15. Still, we have no alchoholisam problems or drinking, driving and getting into accidents stuff.
 
This country has serious problems too. Dont get me wrong....we need to change them. For one we need to heal the liberal disease that plagues this country. But most importantly we must control the money. Not have central bankers controling the nations money supply and henceforth governing the govt and implementing their one global state New World Order scenario. This is a fact. Weather one chooses to accept the evidenc or burry the head in the sand is his or her choice.

Im done arguing with liberals for today though. :) Must keep the blood pressure down.
 
Remember the Star Trek episode, where after generations of rote repeating, "We The People" had turned into "E Pleb Neesta"?

I remember when the teacher told us we weren't allowed to beat up on the Jehovah's Witness kid who was NOT ALLOWED to say the pledge, because yeah, in his church it IS "idol worship." Of course, when did that ever stop kids from ganging up on the outsider weird kid?

Me, I think the answer is very simple: Privatize all schools. No tax money for schools, period. There's no question of tax money going to religious instruction then.
 
digger said:
Remember the Star Trek episode, where after generations of rote repeating, "We The People" had turned into "E Pleb Neesta"?

I remember when the teacher told us we weren't allowed to beat up on the Jehovah's Witness kid who was NOT ALLOWED to say the pledge, because yeah, in his church it IS "idol worship." Of course, when did that ever stop kids from ganging up on the outsider weird kid?

Me, I think the answer is very simple: Privatize all schools. No tax money for schools, period. There's no question of tax money going to religious instruction then.
Click to expand...

You impress me more and more often digger.:beer:
 
take out the under god part and I'd be fine with it.

I stopped saying it in high school because I disagreed with it.
 
i know where polfajefla is from DUH he JUST told us.....i was asking the big guy since he didnt say...and im 1/2 slovak
 
moose11 said:
i know where polfajefla is from DUH he JUST told us.....i was asking the big guy since he didnt say...and im 1/2 slovak
Click to expand...

you didnt quote and your post was right under Polfa so I assumed you were talking to him. I think Big is american
 
here's my take, and i don't believe in god....

leave it in schools, because its a pledge of allegience to our country, BUT, if kids don't want to say "under god", they don't have to. I never do.
 
moose11 said:
this is just like asking whether "merry christmas" should be removed from schools.....
Click to expand...

The political correct-if it feels good do it-hug a tree-life is too hard-say happy holidays instead of merry christmas BS that this country is feeding the kids of today worries me as I get older. I am 32 and kids today have bothered me since I was in college. This MTV generation is going to someday run this country and I swear to you, we are now officially a nation os sissies who are so soft and coddled france would kick our butt in a war.

Also, there is only patriotism when we get attacked like 9/11 and 6 months after it is gone because the emotional high has wore off and "we hate bush" is the mantra again. If this wire tapping thing had happened 6 months after 9/11 it would of been but a bump in the road to protecting our country. Now, it will be a national scandal because BOTH parties will make it a pissing match.

I will sound like my old grandfather here but this country IS going to hell in a handbasket and not because of bush and his administration. Because of it's citizens.
 
PolfaJelfa said:
LIBERALISM IS A DISEASE LIBERALS ARE SLOWLY EATING AWAY AT THE PRINCIPALS, ETHICS, MORALS, STANDARDS, AND WAY OF LIFE THAT HAS MADE AMERICA GREAT.

LIBERALISM IS A DISEASE!

I AM NOT JOKING.

THEY WANT TO TAKE AWAY GOD FROM THIS COUNTRY.
TAKE AWAY EVEYTHING THE USA STANDS FOR.
THEY WANT TO SURRENDER TO THUGS AND DICTATORS.
THEY DO NOT RESPECT AND CHERISH WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN AN FRANKLY SHOULD BE SHOT OR HUNG FOR TREASON!

I CAME TO THIS COUNTRY FROM EUROPE AND I APPRECIATE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN...

It pisses me to hell when i hear of some SocioLiberalistic piece of garbage Disrespect the US and say how awfull it is. Get the HELL OUT OF THE USA!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!
Click to expand...

You know whats funny and kind sad at the same time about this post? Polfa here is not from the USA and he has more patriotism and appreciation for the US than most of the citizens I run into every day. Besides 9/11, when was the last time you saw an american get this fired up about this country? We americans take our blessed country for grantide so much it makes me sick.
 
Mr. dB said:
Who said anything about your grammar or spelling?

Liberty and justice for all, but death for anyone who dissents from the conservative party line? You don't have a clue what America stands for.
Click to expand...


:rolleyes:
 
wayneboard1 said:
:rolleyes: He is an american you boob thats why he does care, did you even read his post? He moved here from Europe and loves this country.
Click to expand...

I say you came into this conversation one day to late. The person I was quoting deleted his comment you BOOB!
 
Wayneboard your a great American.

Schools definately need to be privatized so that the liberal nutjobs cant indocrinate their prey even more.

I speak my mind and frankly i dont care what anyone thinks. Not on the internet but in real life. Amazingly i am respected for this. Some hate me but most respect me. Its amazing what you get when your truthfull and real....not a politicaly correct piece of trash that hides behind slogans and garbage.

Gays and lesbians...must be tolerated in a free society but that does not make them right and they are still filth. That is whay i think. And so do most they are just too scared of offendign someon to say it or themselves are sissy socialists.

Also... if 44% of people can decide Clinton to be their president then 88% faithfull sure as hell can decide that God is to be in the pledge and Christmas etc.

WTF are you wacko MTV coolaid drinkers talking about....it makes me want to beat the life out of you. I wish you could go back in time around WW2 and say something like this. You would be locked up and HUNG.

There was no Happy Holidays. Listen to all the Christmass Carrols.

Michael Savage ( A Great American ) once said.... im paraphrasing....

What about the Song a White Christmas...." IM WISHING FOR A WHITE CHRISTMAS....FOR YOU AND ME"

It should be BANNED....... Well think about it liberals.....Hes a RACIST.........hes talking about only a WHITE CHRISTMAS...........and hes not all inclusive........hes wishing only YOU a white christmass...not US ALL.........AND hes not talking to the MUSLIMS, JEWS, BUDHISTS.....not all inclusive.........I think hes racist .....WHY ISNT IT A BLACK CHRISTMAS????? OR A BROWN CHRISTMASS??????? AND THE CHRISTMAS IS ONLY FOR YOU AND ME?? That means hes singing about only the RICH....what about the poor....he doesent want a Christmas for the Poor! Why isnt he singing a POOR CHRISTMAS? BASTARD RACIST AND ELITIST!

ITS A DAMN SONG....now i hope you understand how LIBERALS THINK....

LIBERALS ARE LIKE A PARASITE....they need to be removed from society.
 
I agree with everything you said, Jelfa.

well, everything except lesbians. they're HAWT. :D

on a side note, parasites do serve a purpose, y'know.
 
PolfaJelfa said:
LIBERALS ARE LIKE A PARASITE....they need to be removed from society.
Click to expand...

America the Free! Free as long as you think just like me. Dissent is treason.

hint: "White Christmas" is about SNOW.
 
eeevvveeerrryyybbbbooooddddddyyyyy


I pledges alligence to the flag of the United States of America.......
 
MR.DB

I respect free speach and everyone is entitled to their oppinion. Im all for truth whatever that may bring, weather i like it or not. I am far from a Republican Ruber Stamper. I am the first to criticize Bush. He is a piece of work too. Also i dont hate people just because they disagree with the war or are Democrats.. I like Joe Liberman and Zell Miller. Their great americans although they do not agree with me on a vast ammount of issues. I also have respect for those that do not agree with my oppinions, faith, ideology etc. In all honesty MR. DB the only people i wish bodilyh harm uppon are people like John Kerry who call our soldiers Terrorists essentialy and are cowards and two timers. People who try to undermine the lives of the people who fight for the country and provide aid comfort and assistane to the enemy. War is not nice...its ugly...its time to take the gloves of...being PC in war means fighting with a hand ties behind the back. In cases like this i think people aught to as Michael Reagan ( Ronalds Reagans Son) said "Hung for treason" I have no problems for people who disagree with me and my people. Im also the type of person that if presented with evidence etc that i am wrong, i try to admit it and am not afraid to say it, its happened before. I hate people who will not do that to prove they are right ...even though everyone can see thru it. Im not talking about you im talking about peopol in general.

Ok im done with my rant for today.

Im like Michael Savage...you never know where ill be coming from...its imposible to labell me.

Im in a good mood tonight though.
Did you liberal guys hear that each time someone says happy holidays an elf dies.?
Its sad:(

Merry Christmas, :)
 
I pledge alliance to the flag of all the fine pussy in America and to the hard cocks for which they stand................ indisvisable with liberty and pussy for all.
 
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