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Please post a response! Is anyone afraid of the long term damage from juice? Or death
- Thread starter jc3899
- Start date
Stangman99
New member
if i lose 2-3 years off my life, oh well. its the worst years, the ones at the end, lol
death on the field
New member
mustang said it best it must be used in moderation
I would agree that Arnold likely had a genetically leaky heart valve. I do not think that any qualified doctor would claim otherwise. Steroids DO NOT create valve problems. However, if you have a slightly leaky valve and take stuff that increases your bp, esp drugs like
d-bol which was reportedly an Arnold favorite, you can make what is a minor leak into a moderate or worse leak. This is all somewhat theoretical though. I have a very small leak in my aortic valve so my Dr has me on bp meds based upon this very theory even though my natural bp is very low. So the point is Arnold may have made a genetic problem that may not have needed surgery into one that did require surgery. This is all theory though and no one knows. Anyone who tells you one way or the other is just plain stupid. Medicine, like most sciences, has alot of uncertainty to it. Other concerns with AS include liver issues for orals like d-bol and anadrol, but again this is rather unproven. I should also note that most of the liver problems in people on anadrol were in those taking it for medical conditions like severe anemia which require doses up to 5mg/kg bodyweight which is way, way more than any AS user in his right mind would take. I would say the liver issue should not be of particular concern for most moderate AS users. Only those often on ultra hard cycles really have alot to worry about when we are talking liver issues. Fina of course can also can lead to kidney problems, but these are noticed in the short, not the long term. So then where am I going with this? To the real concerns regarding AS use but of course. Those would really be 2.
1. Possible prostate cancer.
2. Ateriosclerosis.
Firstly we will consider the prostate cancer thing. I stress that this is theoretical, but the science behind it makes good sense. A group of pre-cancerous prostate cells may never be activated in any particular man. However, if he has a high level of DHT these cells may be activated and grow into dangerous prostate cancer. This is simmilar to breast cancer which is activated by estrogenic compounds. Proof for the role of DHT and testosterone in prostate cancer comes from studies that indicate that castration in prostate cancer patients can slow or halt cancer growth. Additionally, there is some evidence to suggest a benefit of Saw Palmeto in preventing or treating prostate cancer. The theory behind this lies in Saw Palmeto's ablity to cut down on test to DHT conversion. Can AS cause prostate cancer? Again the jury is still out, but the theory is pretty sound.
Anabolic steroids can definately contribute to ateriosclerosis. There is no doubt about this whatsoever. Anyone who has taken AS can tell you that their cholesterol levels have risen as a result. I, personally, did a primo/winnie cycle this spring and went from 132, (a level in the 99th percentille), to a much less appealing 186. Whats more is that AS cause an increase in bad LDL cholesterol while they reduce the levels of good HDL cholesterol. All this can lead to premature clogging of the ateries if unchecked. I would certainly be hesitant to use AS if I had a genetic predispostion to high cholestrol and I would not recommend them at all for anyone who has had angina, heart attacks, or any other severe problems related to clogged ateries. I would also recommend that anyone who regularly uses AS get their cholesterol levels check and checked often. Cholesterol lowering drugs could possibly benefit or eradicate this problem if caught early on, but once aterial fat is laid in the form of plaque it can not be removed by any means.
So can AS shorten your life? I would say they can, but not necessarily. If you remain free of prostate cancer and heart disease you will probably be fine. Also exercising regularly and staying fit will certainly help to extend your life. Whether testosterone would be benefical to men in their later years as a life extension tool is also a possiblity, in much the same vain as hormone replacement therapy can help keep women younger and more vital post-menopausally. Such agents decrease losses in bone mass and help keep muscle tone in the elderly. Estrogen, testosterone, and even decca are are all being studied by the medical community for their applity to help people with osteoporosis. But much like hormone replacement therapy is contraindicated in women with risk factors for breast cancer and heart disease, so will testosterone likely be contraindicated in men at risk for prostate cancer and heart disease.
d-bol which was reportedly an Arnold favorite, you can make what is a minor leak into a moderate or worse leak. This is all somewhat theoretical though. I have a very small leak in my aortic valve so my Dr has me on bp meds based upon this very theory even though my natural bp is very low. So the point is Arnold may have made a genetic problem that may not have needed surgery into one that did require surgery. This is all theory though and no one knows. Anyone who tells you one way or the other is just plain stupid. Medicine, like most sciences, has alot of uncertainty to it. Other concerns with AS include liver issues for orals like d-bol and anadrol, but again this is rather unproven. I should also note that most of the liver problems in people on anadrol were in those taking it for medical conditions like severe anemia which require doses up to 5mg/kg bodyweight which is way, way more than any AS user in his right mind would take. I would say the liver issue should not be of particular concern for most moderate AS users. Only those often on ultra hard cycles really have alot to worry about when we are talking liver issues. Fina of course can also can lead to kidney problems, but these are noticed in the short, not the long term. So then where am I going with this? To the real concerns regarding AS use but of course. Those would really be 2.
1. Possible prostate cancer.
2. Ateriosclerosis.
Firstly we will consider the prostate cancer thing. I stress that this is theoretical, but the science behind it makes good sense. A group of pre-cancerous prostate cells may never be activated in any particular man. However, if he has a high level of DHT these cells may be activated and grow into dangerous prostate cancer. This is simmilar to breast cancer which is activated by estrogenic compounds. Proof for the role of DHT and testosterone in prostate cancer comes from studies that indicate that castration in prostate cancer patients can slow or halt cancer growth. Additionally, there is some evidence to suggest a benefit of Saw Palmeto in preventing or treating prostate cancer. The theory behind this lies in Saw Palmeto's ablity to cut down on test to DHT conversion. Can AS cause prostate cancer? Again the jury is still out, but the theory is pretty sound.
Anabolic steroids can definately contribute to ateriosclerosis. There is no doubt about this whatsoever. Anyone who has taken AS can tell you that their cholesterol levels have risen as a result. I, personally, did a primo/winnie cycle this spring and went from 132, (a level in the 99th percentille), to a much less appealing 186. Whats more is that AS cause an increase in bad LDL cholesterol while they reduce the levels of good HDL cholesterol. All this can lead to premature clogging of the ateries if unchecked. I would certainly be hesitant to use AS if I had a genetic predispostion to high cholestrol and I would not recommend them at all for anyone who has had angina, heart attacks, or any other severe problems related to clogged ateries. I would also recommend that anyone who regularly uses AS get their cholesterol levels check and checked often. Cholesterol lowering drugs could possibly benefit or eradicate this problem if caught early on, but once aterial fat is laid in the form of plaque it can not be removed by any means.
So can AS shorten your life? I would say they can, but not necessarily. If you remain free of prostate cancer and heart disease you will probably be fine. Also exercising regularly and staying fit will certainly help to extend your life. Whether testosterone would be benefical to men in their later years as a life extension tool is also a possiblity, in much the same vain as hormone replacement therapy can help keep women younger and more vital post-menopausally. Such agents decrease losses in bone mass and help keep muscle tone in the elderly. Estrogen, testosterone, and even decca are are all being studied by the medical community for their applity to help people with osteoporosis. But much like hormone replacement therapy is contraindicated in women with risk factors for breast cancer and heart disease, so will testosterone likely be contraindicated in men at risk for prostate cancer and heart disease.
barbells79
New member
we are all gonna die someday, might as well enjoy what time you have here and look at least halfway decent doing it.................
peace bb79
peace bb79
Mark,
I dont understand the role of androgens in prostate cancer proliferation. IMO, i believe that androgens (converting DHT) arent actually carcinogenic and wont cause cancer, but rather fuel its growth. I would liken this effect to the COX-2 enzyme. Now this enzyme is found in every human along with the COX-1 enzyme. They both have their functions, but in the presence of most cancers (GI cancers in particular) there is an overexpression of the COX-2 enzyme (about 5 fold if i remember corectly). It seems that tumor cells somehow feed of the enzyme (if i remember corectly, tumor cells produce energy by anaerobic metabolization of cyclooxegenese-2 or COX-2).
I dont believe that androgens in and of themselves are carcinogenic, but they can play a role in how a cancer behaves.
I dont understand the role of androgens in prostate cancer proliferation. IMO, i believe that androgens (converting DHT) arent actually carcinogenic and wont cause cancer, but rather fuel its growth. I would liken this effect to the COX-2 enzyme. Now this enzyme is found in every human along with the COX-1 enzyme. They both have their functions, but in the presence of most cancers (GI cancers in particular) there is an overexpression of the COX-2 enzyme (about 5 fold if i remember corectly). It seems that tumor cells somehow feed of the enzyme (if i remember corectly, tumor cells produce energy by anaerobic metabolization of cyclooxegenese-2 or COX-2).
I dont believe that androgens in and of themselves are carcinogenic, but they can play a role in how a cancer behaves.
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