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Please leave your morality at the door.

H

HiDnGoD

New member
Quick question. Please discuss & give me some ideas at the end of the day.
Please leave your morality at the door. No religious or dogmatic responses please.
I have a close friend whose young daughter just got pregnant (2-3 wks). She is trying to decide whether or not to terminate. She is around 18, father is a little older. Father is unreliable & unstable. Girl is not in the greatest health to be child bearing, and has ingested drugs & alcohol over that 2-3 wk period. Plus she had a recent x-ray on her leg.
What I need are arguments for & against termination. Thanks. I'll see y'all around noon.
 
Re: [B]Please leave your morality at the door. [/B]

Sorry Hiden...this is going to get WAY to heated for me....I'm prolife...so that should sumit up...adoption is the answer....so flame away
 
Re: [B]Please leave your morality at the door. [/B]

Terminate.

While I am patient to listening to opposing views, it is my opinion people that age should be out enjoying life, travelling the world, having fun, focusing on education/ career etc. I feel people shouldn't consider trying to for kids until they are 30+. But of course there are young and/ or single mums that do a great job rearing a kid, and stick with their young partner for life (I know of one for work), it is my experience that this is a minority.

From what you say the girl and her partner can barely look after themselves nevermind an infant - though maybe a child is an incentive to "wisen up" and could make them better people, this also from my experience a minority outcome.

Could you really live with yourself possibly bringing a child with the world with health problems brought about by your lifestyle?

Adoption is a realistic option aswell. Again, some kids land with mature, middle aged loving parents unable to conceive themselves, others adoptees are arseholes, fuck up the kid and "nurture" another young criminal into the world due to neglect etc.

To respect pro life and pro choice and peoples' decisions is good, but enforcing your views to the extent of controlling their outcome would be very sad. People should be free to make their own mistakes aslong as it dosn't affect your own life, and perhaps cost you money via taxes.
 
Re: [B]Please leave your morality at the door. [/B]

Gymgurl said:
Sorry Hiden...this is going to get WAY to heated for me....I'm prolife...so that should sumit up...adoption is the answer....so flame away
Click to expand...

^^^^ Killing is killing. . .some people need to die. . .generally they aren't babies.
 
Re: [B]Please leave your morality at the door. [/B]

Why do you need arguments? You arent the father or family or anything so its not really your business to be putting forward arguments either way. Sounds like an issue best dealt with within the family, unless they are seeking you out for solutions to their problems, which is not right in the first place.
And you cant check morality at the door, its what prompted you to seek input on this thread in the first place. You wanted different opinions and inputs so that you could form, in your view, a Moral opinion to give the pregnant girl or her dad or whoever.
 
Re: [B]Please leave your morality at the door. [/B]

Its totally up to her to decide but I agree with Diesel Gunz to many strikes from the get go..
 
Re: [B]Please leave your morality at the door. [/B]

I'm pro choice. so my advice is she should be able to, and do, whatever she feels is right for her.
 
Re: [B]Please leave your morality at the door. [/B]

dawg4life said:
Its totally up to her to decide but I agree with Diesel Gunz to many strikes from the get go..
Click to expand...

There's ways to find out whether the kid is healthy or not. I support anyone's right to do whatever the hell they want. . .especially if it's legal and, the world is IMO close to or beyond its carrying capacity already (look at all the starvation) but, I also know a whole lot of people that can't have kids and are desparately looking for one to adopt.
 
Re: [B]Please leave your morality at the door. [/B]

superdave said:
Why do you need arguments? You arent the father or family or anything so its not really your business to be putting forward arguments either way. Sounds like an issue best dealt with within the family, unless they are seeking you out for solutions to their problems, which is not right in the first place.
And you cant check morality at the door, its what prompted you to seek input on this thread in the first place. You wanted different opinions and inputs so that you could form, in your view, a Moral opinion to give the pregnant girl or her dad or whoever.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your help. :rolleyes:
My involvement is not pertinent to this request, except for the advice that was sought from me. I want to make sure I have considered everything before forming an advisory opinion.
 
Re: [B]Please leave your morality at the door. [/B]

see im usually anti abortion, but lately ive been thinking,its probably best to terminate if the two are both too young or unstable to support the child and raise it in a loving environment.

then if I were the parents id beat her ass and kick his ass aswell for being a stupid prick.
 
Re: [B]Please leave your morality at the door. [/B]

i'm catholic....



ok... but i've left that at the door... i say termination is the way to go. she should have been more careful is a dogmatic answer... but it's too late. i think one should weigh the evils. and i think the worse evil is to bring a child into this world when you really are incapable of giving that child a good childhood. hope that helps.
 
Re: [B]Please leave your morality at the door. [/B]

digimon7068 said:
Good thing your parents didn't feel that way. . .we wouldn't get to see your trunk. :(
Click to expand...
If my mom was abusing drugs or alcohol when I was a fetus I would have wanted her to abort my ass. Fact of the matter is we are in a day and age when choice is the option. I don’t knock anyone’s choice to keep or terminate a pregnancy as it is there choice.
 
Re: [B]Please leave your morality at the door. [/B]

superqt4u2nv said:
If my mom was abusing drugs or alcohol when I was a fetus I would have wanted her to abort my ass. Fact of the matter is we are in a day and age when choice is the option. I don’t knock anyone’s choice to keep or terminate a pregnancy as it is there choice.
Click to expand...

i agree.
 
Re: [B]Please leave your morality at the door. [/B]

superqt4u2nv said:
If my mom was abusing drugs or alcohol when I was a fetus I would have wanted her to abort my ass. Fact of the matter is we are in a day and age when choice is the option. I don’t knock anyone’s choice to keep or terminate a pregnancy as it is there choice.
Click to expand...

Not disagreeing with you. . .just saw an opportunity to throw some love at your trunk. :)
 
My mother used to tell me. "Darling - for one thoughtless night you and aonther will suffer endlessly."

I am pro choice. If you think abortion is wrong, then dont have one.

She has parents to guide her. Adoption sounds noble but until you have had to give up a child or had your children taken - sorry you have no say. You can't begin to know what it is like.

If she has a strong enough family support system to carry the child to term especially knowing the she herself has health issues and the child she bear may NOT be "healthy and normal" thus decreasing the chances it will EVER be wanted by a loving/nurturing home (we are talking REAL WORLD and not fantasy land) then go for it. Carry the child to term and give it up.

I have given my children up and I have had them taken from me.

You are never the same thereafter.

Then what if the father decides "all of the sudden" that he doesnt WANT to give the child up? You have years of ugly litigation and custody nonsense to deal with. Mind-boggling expense and drama beyond your wildest nightmares. Great for both the child and the young mother and for all who have come to love her and the child both, dont you agree?

You can hate me till the day I die - I could give a rat's ass about anyone's opinion here or anyplace else.

My personal advice would be to have the pregnancy terminated and advise the child (18 is HARDLY an adult) that (the family as a whole) now needs to come together so that she can make damned sure she isn't faced with a delima like this again.

And life goes on.
 
My sister in law adopted 7 children 3 were born addicted to herion and all are normal bright kids
 
Gymgurl said:
My sister in law adopted 7 children 3 were born addicted to herion and all are normal bright kids
Click to expand...

You sister in law is a truly remarkable woman and by virtue of that, the exception to the rule.

Most couples want healthy white infants - that is just a statistical fact.
 
BIKINIMOM said:
My mother used to tell me. "Darling - for one thoughtless night you and aonther will suffer endlessly."

I am pro choice. If you think abortion is wrong, then dont have one.

She has parents to guide her. Adoption sounds noble but until you have had to give up a child or had your children taken - sorry you have no say. You can't begin to know what it is like.

If she has a strong enough family support system to carry the child to term especially knowing the she herself has health issues and the child she bear may NOT be "healthy and normal" thus decreasing the chances it will EVER be wanted by a loving/nurturing home (we are talking REAL WORLD and not fantasy land) then go for it. Carry the child to term and give it up.

I have given my children up and I have had them taken from me.

You are never the same thereafter.

Then what if the father decides "all of the sudden" that he doesnt WANT to give the child up? You have years of ugly litigation and custody nonsense to deal with. Mind-boggling expense and drama beyond your wildest nightmares. Great for both the child and the young mother and for all who have come to love her and the child both, dont you agree?

You can hate me till the day I die - I could give a rat's ass about anyone's opinion here or anyplace else.

My personal advice would be to have the pregnancy terminated and advise the child (18 is HARDLY an adult) that (the family as a whole) now needs to come together so that she can make damned sure she isn't faced with a delima like this again.

And life goes on.
Click to expand...

not the childs, only the irresponsible parents to this childs life goes on.

This chick was woman enough to lie in that bed and have sex, stupid enough to not protect herself knowing damn good and well that this could possibly happen.... she needs to take responsibility for her actions. Put the kid up for adoption! If it turns in to years of litigation and is a pain in the ass... oh well, bet she'll think twice next time she lies down with another man with out some form of protection.

Only thing abortion will do is give her the false sense that she doesn't have to own up to her responsibilities. So what happens next go round? Lets just give every 18 year old the right to say ... ah fuck it, a few hundred and a scaple and I won't have to worry about it.

The ONLY way abortion should be an option is if its medically necessary.
 
BIKINIMOM said:
My mother used to tell me. "Darling - for one thoughtless night you and aonther will suffer endlessly."

I am pro choice. If you think abortion is wrong, then dont have one.

She has parents to guide her. Adoption sounds noble but until you have had to give up a child or had your children taken - sorry you have no say. You can't begin to know what it is like.

If she has a strong enough family support system to carry the child to term especially knowing the she herself has health issues and the child she bear may NOT be "healthy and normal" thus decreasing the chances it will EVER be wanted by a loving/nurturing home (we are talking REAL WORLD and not fantasy land) then go for it. Carry the child to term and give it up.

I have given my children up and I have had them taken from me.

You are never the same thereafter.

Then what if the father decides "all of the sudden" that he doesnt WANT to give the child up? You have years of ugly litigation and custody nonsense to deal with. Mind-boggling expense and drama beyond your wildest nightmares. Great for both the child and the young mother and for all who have come to love her and the child both, dont you agree?

You can hate me till the day I die - I could give a rat's ass about anyone's opinion here or anyplace else.

My personal advice would be to have the pregnancy terminated and advise the child (18 is HARDLY an adult) that (the family as a whole) now needs to come together so that she can make damned sure she isn't faced with a delima like this again.

And life goes on.
Click to expand...



I'm sorry but if I was a fetus and I had the choice:

a: being a dead fetus in a bowl in a clinic.
b: have a rough childhood
c: be put up for adoption


I would take b and c anyday just to have a chance to live.
 
it does not have a brainstem, it has no feelings or heart, or way to sustain life... it's not human yet.

why keep the child and make it's life miserable due to unfit parents.. take a look around this board and see all the bullshit unfit parents say.
 
HiDnGoD said:
Quick question. Please discuss & give me some ideas at the end of the day.
Please leave your morality at the door. No religious or dogmatic responses please.
I have a close friend whose young daughter just got pregnant (2-3 wks). She is trying to decide whether or not to terminate. She is around 18, father is a little older. Father is unreliable & unstable. Girl is not in the greatest health to be child bearing, and has ingested drugs & alcohol over that 2-3 wk period. Plus she had a recent x-ray on her leg.
What I need are arguments for & against termination. Thanks. I'll see y'all around noon.
Click to expand...

If those are the faces, then you don't need any additional information. Parents owe their kids a chance, and this girl's child won't have much of one.

I see njjuice's point that being alive is itself inherently better than not being alive, and he's right. But the chances of emerging from an adverse background to have a successful and happy life are so...so small.

:(
 
The abortion is not to "ease" the suffering of the mother. She is suffering plenty.

This is to circumvent the suffering of that child.

We can just agree to disagree.
 
HiDnGoD said:
Quick question. Please discuss & give me some ideas at the end of the day.
Please leave your morality at the door. No religious or dogmatic responses please.
I have a close friend whose young daughter just got pregnant (2-3 wks). She is trying to decide whether or not to terminate. She is around 18, father is a little older. Father is unreliable & unstable. Girl is not in the greatest health to be child bearing, and has ingested drugs & alcohol over that 2-3 wk period. Plus she had a recent x-ray on her leg.
What I need are arguments for & against termination. Thanks. I'll see y'all around noon.
Click to expand...

There's no argument against termination. All the agruments for are already included in your post.
 
in regards to chances of the foetus being malformed due to drug/xray use, or her health giving birth, get her to talk to a doctor about the specifics

for the rest of it, let her talk to a counsellor

ultimately its her decision. the father might be a flake but there is no guarintee he will stay taht way. come to think of it, he isnt actually neccessary at all.

hope she makes the right decision.
 
my brother is a dick... he and his slut (now his wife) were in the same position as those 2 kids. so, the slut thinks that she's suddenly grown up and sleeps with my brother who's way older than her. he never uses condoms, and always seems to cum inside the girl (he's caused a few abortions in his time). so the bitch got pregnant and the brother asshole didn't have enough dough for the abortion (he's never heard of the emergency pill apparently)... or so he claims. so one day my dad gets a call from dick - dick tells my dad that he's going to be a grandfather and to come for the wedding (slut was 8 mths pregnant by then). fast forward, 2 yrs later, the dick is mostly without a job, bank loans that rarely get repaid, sits on his ass all day playing computer games. slut is too lazy to work and disappears from the house every week... she lies to the dick that she's goin to meet some friends... the truth is probly that she's sleeping around - hell, she tried to seduce me when the dick was out of town. anyway, the child is left at home with the dick who won't feed her, change her diapers (last time i was around she was wearing diapers... hopefully the 2 assholes have trained her better by now). so she gets cranky and she gets beaten black and blue... this could be that child's life as well... or maybe even worse who knows. oh and BTW, the dick stays in an apartment that my father bought for them... the dad's a softie and felt bad... so dick doesn't need to work and slut doesn't divorce him inspite of getting her nose broken every now and then coz she's got the security of a house... she just has to ensure that she's not caught with another man's cock inside her...
kids like this need to be bashed for their irresponsibility... sorry for being so harsh about that, but that's the way i feel about my bro and his wife
 
oh i forgot to mention. the brother POS doesn't want his daughter to play while he's playing computer games, so he ties her up to a big table the whole day to ensure that she stays put.
 
silver_shadow said:
oh i forgot to mention. the brother POS doesn't want his daughter to play while he's playing computer games, so he ties her up to a big table the whole day to ensure that she stays put.
Click to expand...
:( :( :( Someone needs to call childrens aid on there dumb asses.
 
silver_shadow said:
oh i forgot to mention. the brother POS doesn't want his daughter to play while he's playing computer games, so he ties her up to a big table the whole day to ensure that she stays put.
Click to expand...

PLEASE tell me you are joking! If not then PLEASE do something about this.
 
silver_shadow said:
unfortunately i live in india... and no one takes this seriously
Click to expand...


you go to his freaking house then and turn on his little computer game and tie that bitch up and tortue the hell out of him... that'll learn his ass.
 
It isnt that simple... there are many parts of the world where such things exist.

My parents came from a country where the same would have happened.

I live in a country where nobody TRULY gives a shit about children either...

Let's just leave it at, we agree to disagree.
 
Frisky said:
not the childs, only the irresponsible parents to this childs life goes on.

This chick was woman enough to lie in that bed and have sex, stupid enough to not protect herself knowing damn good and well that this could possibly happen.... she needs to take responsibility for her actions. Put the kid up for adoption! If it turns in to years of litigation and is a pain in the ass... oh well, bet she'll think twice next time she lies down with another man with out some form of protection.

Only thing abortion will do is give her the false sense that she doesn't have to own up to her responsibilities. So what happens next go round? Lets just give every 18 year old the right to say ... ah fuck it, a few hundred and a scaple and I won't have to worry about it.

The ONLY way abortion should be an option is if its medically necessary.
Click to expand...

Agreed. . .you must spread some karma around before giving more to Frisky. . .tried to give it to ya. . .that should count for something, right? :)
 
Thanks for everybody's response.
One thing I forgot to mention was that before this the girl was apparently pro-life. At that time (not sure why) she was under the impression that she couldn't get pregnant. Now, due to the circumstances, she is on the fence.
i also forgot to mention she only has High School.
My original counsel would have been to have the child & care for it, or put it up for adoption. But because of the health issues I was thinking that termination might be the better choice. The only reason the health issues bother me is because I have a saint of a cousin who has adopted 4 challenged kids, F.A.S. mainly, but other issues also. She has told me the stories about people wanting only to adopt perfect kids. That's why there are so many kids still in the system.
So, what I was looking for were arguments either way. I'll tell him the points you've made & give him my own suggestion. He had never even considered this would happen, so he's kinda overwhelmed right now.
 
I hate to say it.. but that id will be a lot better off if she terminates the pregnancy. That innocent little soul will be much better off being born to another mother who will want it and love it.
 
milo hobgoblin said:
I hate to say it.. but that id will be a lot better off if she terminates the pregnancy. That innocent little soul will be much better off being born to another mother who will want it and love it.
Click to expand...

adoption
 
BIKINIMOM said:
It isnt that simple... there are many parts of the world where such things exist.

My parents came from a country where the same would have happened.

I live in a country where nobody TRULY gives a shit about children either...

Let's just leave it at, we agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
our family isn't a traditional one and this kind of behavior isn't the norm... just that my brother (and obviously his wife) is a POS. just goes to show that a person's race doesn't matter when it comes to these things...
 
Frisky I so want to agree with you..

But Ive seen so many cases where the LOSER FUCKING MOM.. cleans herself up and 2 or 3 years later thanks to our bullshit liberal court system the baby is ripped from the adoptive parents arms. the ONLY real parents its ever known and givenback to the fucking shit queen biological mom.

I just have no faith in the adoption system in this country unless the bio parents are dead.
 
milo hobgoblin said:
Frisky I so want to agree with you..

But Ive seen so many cases where the LOSER FUCKING MOM.. cleans herself up and 2 or 3 years later thanks to our bullshit liberal court system the baby is ripped from the adoptive parents arms. the ONLY real parents its ever known and givenback to the fucking shit queen biological mom.

I just have no faith in the adoption system in this country unless the bio parents are dead.
Click to expand...

That^^^^fear and the fear of someone else's f'ed up genetics is what stopped my wife and I from adopting. . .we finally had our own but, when we first started trying and it didn't work, we had that conversation and we both expressed concerns about those two aspects of the whole adoption thing. I still think it's great, it just wasn't for me.
 
So, I was talking to the girl's Dad & apparently she has decided to go through with the D&C. The Dad is pretty close with his Dad, so he talked to him about it. Grandpa told Grandma, Grandma called girl a little slut. I can't decide whether I wanna stay & watch the drama on here tonight, or go over to my buddy's & watch that. :whatever:
 
BIKINIMOM said:
Grandma can kiss my rock hard ass.

Who impregnated "the slut". Gotta love self-righteous assholes.
Click to expand...
To give the kids a break, the girl thought she couldn't get pregnant (don't know why, as no one will elaborate). & I bet Grandma was doing the same at 18, considering she got married around 17.
 
HiDnGoD said:
To give the kids a break, the girl thought she couldn't get pregnant (don't know why, as no one will elaborate). & I bet Grandma was doing the same at 18, considering she got married around 17.
Click to expand...

Grandma wasn't a slut. She was a god-fearing christian woman! LOL
 
the child/fetus is now at great risk....due to the injestion of drugs and alcohol. this would be my first and main concern. Abnormal development/ disabilities are something that this baby could have to endure for the rest of its life...
 
I am prochoice (or use abortion for birth control); but I wouldn't abort the child. I know some people who have. In later years, when they have children, they just cry from time to time and ask for "forgiveness" from their dead child. It's quite tramatic.
 
EnderJE said:
I am prochoice (or use abortion for birth control); but I wouldn't abort the child. I know some people who have. In later years, when they have children, they just cry from time to time and ask for "forgiveness" from their dead child. It's quite tramatic.
Click to expand...

I also know of several women who have had abortions (and no, thank god I have never had to face it myself) and they gave contrary information. They weren't gleefull about the decision they made but they said it was for the best - period.
 
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