Please help me iron out my first aas cycle ever

[russiandave]

Hey guys here are my stats
im 33, 6feet tall , 245 pounds, 15% bodyfat
I work out five days a week, and have been working out for literally 20 years since I was 13 but for the last 12 years in a very serious fashion. good form, good routines.

i eat relatively clean , i have a cheat day once a week at most.

Ok so about a month ago i started to take hgh. I take 5iu 5/2.

I would like to stack it with test.

here is my routine so far{from a suggested begginer routine that I saw posted on another site}:

1-12 test e 500mg/week
1-4 tbol 40mg/day ( this is used to kickstart the cycle and is optional)

take your test injections 3.5 days apart, like monday morning and thursday evening

split your tbol up throughout the day, this will keep your blood levels stable, which means less sides and more gains

if you take the tbol, supplement with liv52 to help you liver cope with breaking down the d bol

Ok so far I have test and tbol. I was thinking about tbol but the original post said dbol. i just did some reading and a lot of people said that tbol has a bit less sides. and i just read that someone else reallllly only likes anavar and swears it is better than both tbol and dbol and has less sides. is there any truth behind this or is this personal preference.

ok so i did some more reading. id like to take arimidex as an anti-e
as well as hcg to help offset ball shrinkage.
how does this dosage sound:

hcG 250IU twice a week
3mg of arimidex/week

this leads me to my pct
ive read the most common pct is nolva and clomid, but there are a lot of variations in the dosage and how/when to take it. and is it better to simply take Tribex instead?

how does this look as pct:?

clomid 100/50/50/50
nolva 40/20/20/20

So all in all my cycle will look like this:

cycle:
hgh 5iu 5/2
1-12 test e 500mg/week
1-4 tbol 40mg/day

hcG 250IU twice a week
3mg of arimidex/week

pct
clomid 100/50/50/50
nolva 40/20/20/20

Please help me iron out dosages and timeframes, I would really appreciate it.
Also, if anyone knows about the anavar and tribex question I would really love some advice on those as well.

thanks guys, i really tried to read and do as much homework as possible before posting this

 

[russiandave]

oh i forgot to say my goals. i dont want to be huge. i appreciate others getting huge and becoming a monster machine but i am looking to simply lean down a bit after putting on a bit of weight. ideally i would like to stay at most around the same weight. hopefully drop ten pounds in weight....however i would like to put on mass and lose the extra bf.

i am sure i can do it.

 

[sweed]

Looks great!
dont need adex during the cycle, but keep it on hand.
hcg will be good the way u have it.
The only thing is pct could be a bit strong with some suppose like, sustain alpha, unleashed, postcycle, hcgenerate. etc.
what does the diet look like and how many cals are u eating, macro's?

tbol would be a good kick start, it wont add the bloat like dbol could. and will help strength gains start early while your waiting for the test.
mon/thurs inject schedule is perfect, anytime of the day really doesn;t matter with enanthate.

It's finally good to see someone that has put in their dues before starting a First cycle!!

 

[RADAR]

Hello Welcome to Elite,looks like you've done some homework, And yeah Tbol has less bloat than Dbol.

I would Suggest Tbol 30mg day and test Eth or cyp 250 Twice a week like mon and thurs.

I could help alot more if i had a bodyshot to go by. PM me if i can help further

RADAR

 

[russiandave]

thanks for the replies guys. i dont have a picture to post yet. is it possible to take anavar throughout the full cycle? ive been reading up on it and some feel its ok to take it through the full cycle since it is a lot more subtle than other orals.

and i guess tribex is no substitute for the nolva and clomid?

you mention that it is a bit of a strong pct sweed. what would you suggest as dosages go bro.

as far as calories go i have to be honest and say that i do not know. im not a professional bb and i dont plan on competing. I never really learned how to calorie count. definitely one of my weaker points. i just eat a lot of chicken and salmon. i try to eat low carbs but i eat wheat pasta when i do have pasta. i eat fruit and veggies a lot too. its really just a healthy eating habit thing and not really a diet. but honestly i dont know the calorie intake. i found that i do need some carbs though because being on the hgh 5iu a day makes me hyperglycemic {i believe thats the term} and i start to crash midafternoon if i dont eat some sort of carbs

 

[sweed]

no need to run var, esp with another oral.
sorry, I meant to say, your pct could be stronger, with the recommended supps... though some guys like the old school clomid nolva, I just added those extra's because they are natural and they have been preven time and time again to help you recover. They were Made specifically for pct.

you should really figure out how many calories you are eating. 10-12x your bodyweight for cutting, and 14-16x your body for maintaining/ bulking. So you should be eating at least 3400 cals , cutting can be around 3000. It is more food that you think, so write down how many fats carbs and proteins you are eating and add them all up, and see what you are eating. A tweaked diet helps everyone for the better. Kinda like me, I added more carbs, boom, lost more weight/fat, because my cals were soo low. Diet is everything

 

[HarryHarry]

You should not run both the tbol and anavar, either pick one or the orther. Two orals will not be good for your liver and kidneys. Whenever I run an oral I use liv52 to help keep the liver in check.
I think for your goals anavar would be best as it helps in the process in buring fat. Both however are very good orals and will achive your goals if applyd to a good structured diet.

If your going to run the tbol I would slim it to 30mg for 4 weeks to help with the bloat.
If you decide to run anavar isntead I would go 60mg ED for 8 weeks

Good luck brother

 

[russiandave]

You should not run both the tbol and anavar, either pick one or the orther. Two orals will not be good for your liver and kidneys. Whenever I run an oral I use liv52 to help keep the liver in check.
I think for your goals anavar would be best as it helps in the process in buring fat. Both however are very good orals and will achive your goals if applyd to a good structured diet.

If your going to run the tbol I would slim it to 30mg for 4 weeks to help with the bloat.
If you decide to run anavar isntead I would go 60mg ED for 8 weeks

Good luck brother

Hey guys, thanks for the tips and opinions. I should have been more specific when I spoke about the orals. I didnt mean to imply I was going to stack them. I know a lot of people really like dbol or tbol , but I am liking what I read about the anavar as well. Harry why do you suggest a higher dosage and longer usage of anavar compared to tbol. Is it because it is less evasive on the body or simply a weaker oral?

Thanks for answering my questions as we go, I admittedly am learning as I type in this thread. And I will continue to read the threads on the forum.

And sweed I will keep a dietary log starting tomorrow with everything I eat. I will have to look up how many calories each thing has as I go along and try to plan my meals accordingly. Sweed with the nolva and clomid only, is what I posted as a pct ok or should I bump it up a bit? I will read up on the other stuff you suggested as well.

 

[goin on 4T]

nice job doing your research! It shows in your post and it will definately show in your gains. Good luck to your bro.

 

[russiandave]

nice job doing your research! It shows in your post and it will definately show in your gains. Good luck to your bro.

Thanks bro.

Quick question. How much Liv52 do you guys think I should take , seeing that I am going to be taking 60mgs daily of anavar.

 

[joe d]

i dont like the plan for your goals. i would do this instead

1-14 .5mg adex eod
1-12 500mg test e ew
6-12 50mg var ed

the pct you listed would work but its harsh and not any better than this

start pct 1 weak after the last test shot
weaks 1-3 take 40mg nolva ed
weak 4 take 20mg nolva ed
also use sustain alpha for the pct month

 

[russiandave]

i dont like the plan for your goals. i would do this instead

1-14 .5mg adex eod
1-12 500mg test e ew
6-12 50mg var ed

the pct you listed would work but its harsh and not any better than this

start pct 1 weak after the last test shot
weaks 1-3 take 40mg nolva ed
weak 4 take 20mg nolva ed
also use sustain alpha for the pct month

Hey joe,
Thanks for replying, I did have a question though, actually two. Why the var on the second half of the cycle, I thought the idea of the oral was to help jumpstart the cycle.

and why did you take out the hcg and liv52?

Thanks for your time

 

[goin on 4T]

Don't know as I haven't taken it. Sorry

Thanks bro.

Quick question. How much Liv52 do you guys think I should take , seeing that I am going to be taking 60mgs daily of anavar.

 

[joe d]

Hey joe,
Thanks for replying, I did have a question though, actually two. Why the var on the second half of the cycle, I thought the idea of the oral was to help jumpstart the cycle.

and why did you take out the hcg and liv52?

Thanks for your time

the var will help harden you up and get rid of the bloat fron the test. its better left at the end. it will also help you more in the tail end cutting on the cycle. orals can be used in any variety of ways. dbol is comonly used as a kick start.

i didnt mean to cut the hcg and liv52. i was just thinking about the changes sorry. run them how you planned.

 

[russiandave]

the var will help harden you up and get rid of the bloat fron the test. its better left at the end. it will also help you more in the tail end cutting on the cycle. orals can be used in any variety of ways. dbol is comonly used as a kick start.

i didnt mean to cut the hcg and liv52. i was just thinking about the changes sorry. run them how you planned.

Sounds good and makes sense. Is it possible to do dbol 1-4 and then switch to anavar for 6-12?

And yup I will be listening to sweeds advice dont worry.

 

[joe d]

Sounds good and makes sense. Is it possible to do dbol 1-4 and then switch to anavar for 6-12?

And yup I will be listening to sweeds advice dont worry.

it is possible to do dbol 1-4 and var 8-12 but i dont think you should do that. it would be over kill and the 6 weaks of var would be better for your goals

 

[RADAR]

Agree with joe,run var towards the end to help cut up,and in your log you need to be getting 2 grams of protein for every pound of bodyweight.
Add some Gear thruout the cycle to keep those muscles in a positive nitrogen balance
RADAR

 

[HarryHarry]

Hey guys, thanks for the tips and opinions. I should have been more specific when I spoke about the orals. I didnt mean to imply I was going to stack them. I know a lot of people really like dbol or tbol , but I am liking what I read about the anavar as well. Harry why do you suggest a higher dosage and longer usage of anavar compared to tbol. Is it because it is less evasive on the body or simply a weaker oral?

Thanks for answering my questions as we go, I admittedly am learning as I type in this thread. And I will continue to read the threads on the forum.

And sweed I will keep a dietary log starting tomorrow with everything I eat. I will have to look up how many calories each thing has as I go along and try to plan my meals accordingly. Sweed with the nolva and clomid only, is what I posted as a pct ok or should I bump it up a bit? I will read up on the other stuff you suggested as well.

The reason I suggest anavar at a higher dose and longer was because anavar is a tad milder than tbol. Also tbol usual looses its effectiveness around week 4 or 5 for most, so no need to run it longer in my opinion.

On your question for liv52. Buy the extra strength brand and run it as guided on bottle.


Harry

 

[russiandave]

Hey guys thanks for the replies. I will get the extra strength liv52 for sure.

Radar, ill eat plenty of protein for sure.

What do you guys think about this cycle update. Its very similar to the one I originally posted but with a few slight adjustments. One main adjustment is the double oral {not at the same time}.

5iu hgh 6/1
1-12 500 Test Cyp 2x 250 wk
1-5 50{too low?} tbol ed
7-12 80mgs Var ed
1-12 proviron ed
1-11 250 hcg 2x wk
1-12 liv52
1-12 milk thistle
.25 arimidex eod {i am prone to gyno}
pct
clomid nolva

I think the meat and potatoes of this test var hgh cycle are still intact, I am really just trying to tweak out the tbol to help jumpstart the cycle, as well as the liver protection and anti-e/ball shrinkage stuff.

I have to admit, I am very excited about this stack. As always, any advice or errors you see please chime in.

 

[russiandave]

now that I look it over, i have a one week downtime of no oral between the tbol and anavar. should i just run the tbol the full six weeks or is that one week off period fine.

and is there such a thing as overkill with liver protection. the liv52 and milk thistle at the same time I read was ok as a general rule.

i think this is a pretty solid cycle. i admittedly have no prior experience with AAS besides hgh so if you guys know any other stuff I should purchase to keep onhand, such as antibloating stuff, or stuff for sides that i am unaware of, please let me know.

 

[d_rson]

Too much orals for too long. Var has a misconception of being "mild" but it will effect your liver and it will kill your cholesterol. After running 5 weeks of tbol, the var will most definitely have adverse effects on your liver and your cholesterol will be in the tanker. I also think 80mg of Anavar is an overkill (unless it's way underdoses UG). I don't think your need a kickstart for your goals. Just do test with Var at the end.

 

[russiandave]

Too much orals for too long. Var has a misconception of being "mild" but it will effect your liver and it will kill your cholesterol. After running 5 weeks of tbol, the var will most definitely have adverse effects on your liver and your cholesterol will be in the tanker. I also think 80mg of Anavar is an overkill (unless it's way underdoses UG). I don't think your need a kickstart for your goals. Just do test with Var at the end.

Understood. Joe was giving me the same advice so I will take what both of you say into consideration and really learn from your experiences. So 80mg var is too high? How about 60mgs?{lol sounds good to me, var is pricey hahaha}

Oh you also bring up a goood point about bad and good cholesterol. I remember reading in one thread about superdosing on two specific vitamins that helped cholesterol naturally. Darn I forget the vitamins, possibly B or D. I need to search for it I will add that to my regiment as well. Id rather err on the side of caution.

If anyone else has any suggestions please feel free to toss them into the mix

 

[HarryHarry]

Understood. Joe was giving me the same advice so I will take what both of you say into consideration and really learn from your experiences. So 80mg var is too high? How about 60mgs?{lol sounds good to me, var is pricey hahaha}

Oh you also bring up a goood point about bad and good cholesterol. I remember reading in one thread about superdosing on two specific vitamins that helped cholesterol naturally. Darn I forget the vitamins, possibly B or D. I need to search for it I will add that to my regiment as well. Id rather err on the side of caution.

If anyone else has any suggestions please feel free to toss them into the mix

agree with d_rson that the orals are a tad overkill. The 80mgs anavar kinda takes away from its safty selling point. If you are set on using both orals try:

1-4 tbol @30mg
5-10 anavar @60mg

or...

Liquid inject anavar . Anavar doesnt need to always be in oral form wich some people forget

 

[russiandave]

agree with d_rson that the orals are a tad overkill. The 80mgs anavar kinda takes away from its safty selling point. If you are set on using both orals try:

1-4 tbol @30mg
5-10 anavar @60mg

or...

Liquid inject anavar . Anavar doesnt need to always be in oral form wich some people forget

Wait, If I inject the anavar, would it help to prevent the liver damage as well? But wait, thats an IM pin per day of var? or does it come in a long ester form as well?
This is what I have refined it down too:

5iu hgh 6/1
1-12 500 Test Cyp 2x 250 wk
7-12 60mgs Var ed
1-12 proviron ed
1-11 250 hcg 2x wk
1-12 liv52
1-12 milk thistle
.25 arimidex eod {i am prone to gyno}



pct
Clomid 100/50/50/50
nolva 40/20/20/20

The only other things I can think to add is an oral in the beginning such as :

1-4 50 tbol ed

but then that would be a lot of time with orals in my system. and im not sure that is really ideal. the var is at the end of the cycle to help cut obviously.

and something for cholesterol since var can impact it. some vitamins or something
I am wondering if taking the tbol in the beginning is going to be worth it as a jumpstart.



as usual, please feel free to chime in on refining it more. such as pct refinement and changes, dosages etc. also, does anyone know what is good for cholesterol?

thanks guys. once i get this totally ironed out, i can place my order.

 

[d_rson]

I don't think you need to start the HCG until week 3 or so, and run it to week 13. Then start PCT in week 14, 1-1.5 weeks after last pin. Drop the clomid, hate the stuff. Run Nolva 20/20/10/10, Sustain Alpha LV for 4 weeks as directed, and Unleashed for 4 weeks as directed. The HCG in week 13 will help you cruise into PCT as the Test is fading out.

I'd run the Var weeks 9-14. Don't end the var in week 12 as your Test is still lingering for 2 weeks. I'd run the Proviron weeks 3-14 too, or atleast weeks 2-13. This opens the door for you to kickstart with tbol if you must, and gives you 4 weeks between the 4 week kickstart and the var starting in week 9. What I would do if you go tbol kickstart is get a blood test at week 8 and see where you are liver wise to make sure you want to start the var after the tbol (make sure they do a GGT test, and look at your TBIL, GGT, AST and ALT as a whole). Might end up being bad and put a slight damper on your cutting, but it would be safe. The proviron and test might end up being enough to cut on with good diet. Just be safe.

For cholesterol - Red Yeast Rice, COQ10, Niacin 1500mg before bed, Garlic supplements, etc.

 

[Jhotsauce7]

5iu hgh 6/1
1-12 500 Test Cyp 2x 250 wk
7-12 60mgs var ed
1-12 proviron ed
1-11 250 hcg 2x wk
1-12 liv52
1-12 milk thistle
.25 Arimidex eod {i am prone to gyno}



PCT
Clomid 100/50/50/50
nolva 40/20/20/20
ist
- You aren't taking anything that is super harsh on your liver. The tbol may make your values a little temporarily wacky, however it is a very mild steroid and does not 'require' you to take liv 52/milk thistle. If you were drinking pleanty of water that would probably be enough. I have known many people to take tbol for far longer than you could take a harsh 17aa oral, with no issues. Var is also very mild.

If you decide to take liv 52 or milk thistle, you may if you prefer but really not needed. The main active ingredient in liv 52, actually is milk thistle by the way though LOL.

You may get high blood pressure from this cycle. Get Hathorn berry EXTRACT. dont get the root, but the extract. take it 2 pills 2 to 3 times a day if you start getting a tingly, hot flash type of feeling or if you have a way to monitor your BP and know for certain when it's getting high. This will be wise.

HCG, once again .. not required. This is a VERY mild cycle. I wouldn't even run it during the cycle if I were going to use it at all. (I really, really wouldn't run HCG at all during or after this cycle) but if I did I would use it in the week leading up to PCT, after you have taken your final pin.

"hcg will get your testes to produce testosterone by mimicing LH but will still send negative feedback to your Hypothalamus and you will still hinder production of GnRH therefore your HPTA will NOT recover. hcg should be reserved to kick start a PCT for someone thats been on a cycle for 6months or more and for reproductive reasons while on a cycle."

Unless you are trying to make babies, skip the hcg!!!!

Tbol is awesome but you wont want to run it for less than 6 weeks.. this seems to be the magic number and for whaever unknown reason, after 5 or 6 weeks thats when the magic starts happening with tbol. I ran it for 8 weeks with perfect blood values 2 weeks following (with test/low dose tren a), and can vouch for this theory. tbol made many great workouts. No crazy strength or weight gains, but improves intensity of workouts, and a general feeling of wellbeing and some added motivation to boot.

you would be fine with 40mg var, 40mg tbol bro.

I didn't see where you mentioned why you are taking the pro v but I am assuming to keep the water off? That's all it's really good for...

adex dose looks good.

Good luck. As long as you keep your diet and good training sessions you should keep some solid gains from this.

 

[russiandave]

drson and hotsauce, thx for the feedback. i made notes of all the stuff you said to get for cholesterol and high blood pressure.

I think I am going to skip the tbol for this cycle. I am getting bloodwork done thursday morning. I wrote down the ggt test info to ask for.

Thanks again guys. Im stoked

 

[RADAR]

5iu hgh 6/1
1-12 500 Test Cyp 2x 250 wk
7-12 60mgs var ed
1-12 proviron ed
1-11 250 hcg 2x wk
1-12 liv52
1-12 milk thistle
.25 Arimidex eod {i am prone to gyno}



PCT
Clomid 100/50/50/50
nolva 40/20/20/20
ist
- You aren't taking anything that is super harsh on your liver. The tbol may make your values a little temporarily wacky, however it is a very mild steroid and does not 'require' you to take liv 52/milk thistle. If you were drinking pleanty of water that would probably be enough. I have known many people to take tbol for far longer than you could take a harsh 17aa oral, with no issues. Var is also very mild.

If you decide to take liv 52 or milk thistle, you may if you prefer but really not needed. The main active ingredient in liv 52, actually is milk thistle by the way though LOL.

You may get high blood pressure from this cycle. Get Hathorn berry EXTRACT. dont get the root, but the extract. take it 2 pills 2 to 3 times a day if you start getting a tingly, hot flash type of feeling or if you have a way to monitor your BP and know for certain when it's getting high. This will be wise.

HCG, once again .. not required. This is a VERY mild cycle. I wouldn't even run it during the cycle if I were going to use it at all. (I really, really wouldn't run HCG at all during or after this cycle) but if I did I would use it in the week leading up to PCT, after you have taken your final pin.

"hcg will get your testes to produce testosterone by mimicing LH but will still send negative feedback to your Hypothalamus and you will still hinder production of GnRH therefore your HPTA will NOT recover. hcg should be reserved to kick start a PCT for someone thats been on a cycle for 6months or more and for reproductive reasons while on a cycle."

Unless you are trying to make babies, skip the hcg!!!!

Tbol is awesome but you wont want to run it for less than 6 weeks.. this seems to be the magic number and for whaever unknown reason, after 5 or 6 weeks thats when the magic starts happening with tbol. I ran it for 8 weeks with perfect blood values 2 weeks following (with test/low dose tren a), and can vouch for this theory. tbol made many great workouts. No crazy strength or weight gains, but improves intensity of workouts, and a general feeling of wellbeing and some added motivation to boot.

you would be fine with 40mg var, 40mg tbol bro.

I didn't see where you mentioned why you are taking the pro v but I am assuming to keep the water off? That's all it's really good for...

adex dose looks good.

Good luck. As long as you keep your diet and good training sessions you should keep some solid gains from this.

Quality post there

RADAR