Please Fucking Help!~ Eating Large Amount Of Fat And Can Get In Keto!!

[KWKSLVR]

Ok, Slappy, let me try this again, i never said i was out of Ketosis because of the strips. I was out of Ketosis because i wasn't loosing weight. I've gone through all sorts of plateaus.

You want to know the foods i added? They are as follows:
Chicken Wings
Asparagus
Green Beans
Crystal Light (powdered)
Of which i eat now except for the Crystal Light. I knew the other foods were ok because they were on the list. Crystal Light wasn't on there, but after reading the label i decided that it might be ok, i was wrong.

I've stunted my progress 3 or 4 times through the months trying out different things.

Furthermore, Atkins has NEVER said that Aspartame effects Ketosis. What he says in his book is that through the years many of his patients have experienced dizzyness and just plain not feeling good. After pulling Aspartame out, the symptoms went away. Here is all that Atkins says about Aspartame and i don't see ANY mention of him implying that it effects Ketosis. My personal opinion that it raises blood sugar is because it leaves me with the same feeling of a crash that i'd get from eating sweets.

A main goal of the Atkins Nutritional Approach is to stabilize blood sugar (glucose) and insulin levels through the restriction of carbohydrates. Sugar is a carbohydrate, so it is strictly limited. Controlling carb content naturally curbs sugar cravings. However, if you still crave sweets, we suggest you use a sugar substitute. The prudent, moderate use of artificial sweeteners is usually acceptable. But be aware that not all sugar substitutes are created equal. We recommend specific sweeteners that will not interfere with weight loss. Some people experience negative reactions to certain sweeteners, and the risk increases with the amount used. With all artificial sweeteners, the less used, the better.
Our preference is sucralose, marketed under the name Splenda®. Derived from sugar, it is non-caloric, contains less than 1 gram of carbs per serving and it doesn’t raise blood sugar. It has been used in other countries since 1991 and has been tested for safety and efficacy. In 1998, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved sucralose for sale in the United States after reviewing more than 100 studies conducted during the past 20 years.

Atkins Nutritionals has since reformulated all of its products using sucralose, including the Atkins Shake Mixes, Advantage Bars and Sugar Free Syrups. Sucralose is approximately 600 times sweeter than sugar. Unlike aspartame, it is inert in the body’s digestive system, quickly passing through without accumulating in tissues. In addition, it does not lose its sweetness when heated, so it can be used in cooking and baking. (For more information about Splenda, go to www.splenda.com.)

If Splenda is not available, saccharin is the next best thing. The FDA recently removed saccharin from its list of carcinogens, basing its decision upon a thorough review of the medical literature and the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences’ statement that "there is no clear association between saccharin and human cancer." It can be safely consumed in moderate amounts--no more than three packets a day. Sugar poses a greater threat to good health than saccharin does. Saccharin is marketed as Sweet ’n Low®.

Acesulfame potassium, also known as acesulfame K, another non-caloric sweetener, is approximately 200 times sweeter than sugar. Because it cannot be metabolized, it passes through the body without elevating blood sugar. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) has authorized the use of acesulfame K after evaluating numerous studies and determining its safety. It is sold under the brand name Sunett™.

We do not recommend the use of aspartame--sold under the brand names of Equal® and NutraSweet®--because of questions about its safety. <---I.E. - Many of my patients pass out on it

Note: During Induction, avoid sorbitol and mannitol (both fermented sugars), and natural sweeteners such as fructose, lactose or maltose.

Tip: Sugar substitutes have a synergistic sweetness. Mixing together tiny amounts of each mimics the sweetness of sugar better than a larger amount of any single one.

 

[KWKSLVR]

One more thing, if we want to talk about calories, lets talk about the week of Thanksgiving in which i gorged myself of fiberous vegtables, low carb cheesecake, ham and turkey, eggs, bacon, the usual and came back to school to find that i had lost another pound. I was easily over my maintenance calorie mark everyday. Hell, i was over my carb mark too.

 

[MS]

Ah well, it seems we're beating a dead horse here. "Atkin's says" is your only arguement. Atkin's never publishes any peer reviewed research. It's a shame really. How hard would it be to do a double-blind placebo controlled cross-over study on aspartame? He makes enough money from his books etc... that he could prolly find a little money for this type of research. But hey, it's cheaper and easier to just say "I say so".

Even if aspartame made you dizzy and or pass out, it would not inhibit you from losing WEIGHT, it would merely inhibit you from losing FAT. If you can't get this simple concept then there is no point to discussing this topic with you anymore. Now if you're only objection to aspartame is that it makes you feel bad, then by all means stop using it. But to try to tell some guy (who's on a CKD, NOT an Atkin's diet) that aspartame will keep him out of ketosis is not even stated or supported by His Holiness Dr Atkin's himself. By the way, your symptoms (and passing out on a keto diet ) are symptoms of LOW blood sugar, NOT high!! With your high calorie intake in your first two weeks you were probably inhibiting ketosis, and in your third week you finally got your blood sugar low enough to enter true ketosis. The transition (when your blood sugar is at it's lowest) is the period when MANY people feel dizzy, generally unwell and even pass out. Whatever. Obviously YOU should avoid aspartame because you believe it's bad for you. But I would highly recommend you look into a basic biochem course or something, otherwise you're gonna continue to have problems like this since you don't grasp the basic biochemistry behind insulin/glucose and ketosis.

aside from that, congrats on your weight loss efforts. 40 pounds in 5 weeks must feel pretty good. Man, you were holding a lot of fluid! I'll bet your blood pressure dropped tons after those first 2 weeks?

 

[freshr1]

Also remember that keto is an on/off switch. You're either in keto or not. There's no "light keto". If the strips have any colour to them at all, you're in ketosis.

 

[MS]

Ketosis is not a truly on/off thing. There are always low levels of ketones floating around in your blood stream, even on a high carb diet. They are a natural by product of fat burning. Ketosis is when and EXCESS of ketones can be measured in the blood, and this can be high even before your brain has made the complete metabolic shift to ketosis. "Stable" ketosis is when your brain has fully switched over to using ketones as it's main energy source. When more ketones are being excreted into the blood than the body needs to meet it's energy requirements, then and only then will they be excreted in measurable amounts through the urine. So fat intake that is in excess to your energy requirements without adequate carbs can result in ketones showing up on a ketosix strip even if your not fully in ketosis, and even if you're not losing stored bodyfat. I believe the medical definition of ketosis for diabetics is when total ketone body levels > 1.0 mmol/l in the blood. Yet epileptic kids don't get good seizure control unless their acetoacetate levels are close to 4.0 mmol/l. It is often necessary to keep epileptic kids on keto diets slightly dehydrated to achieve this level of ketosis. Because of the dehydration, even this type of deep ketosis does not always correspond to ketostix readings (urinary excretion of ketones).

 

[MR. BMJ]

LOL...at first I was lost on what you (MS) meant by calling me stupid, but then I reread this whole thread and seen that we were basically posting at the same time. When I read this thread before posting, neither of our posts were up. Don't worry though...no offence taken. I don't really advocate the use of insulin for obvious reasons as it is just not needed unless you are narrowing down for a contest, or if you are close to the end of the diet, which in return, you are basically doing the diet for results rather than health...aahhhh we pesky bodybuilders...I telll ya, the things we do.... ALA, metformin, Phenformin, Chromium, etc... are more than adequate for anyone who wants to have a safer way, and they seem to be totally effective. If anything, nothing a few more weeks of "healthier" dieting can't take care of. Bottom line, i'm on the same page as ya!

KWIKSILVER...How do you know what kind of "weight" you are losing by only reading scale readings and not by bodyfat analysis? I have seen your before pictures, and frankly, I wouldn't be surprised that someone of your previous stature would not be able to lose 40 pounds of WATER alone very very easily. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised that you are losing a great deal of muscle at the same time by looking at your added protein sources....WHERES THE FAT???? Furthermore, a simple decrease in calories will always give one "weight" loss. Knowing if it is fat, muscle, water or glycogen is very important to know. From the added choices of foods that was included with the Crystal Light, I can see that by all the protein and NO fat (except fot the small amount in the chicken wings), that you ARE PROBABLY NOT IN KETOSIS. And remember, you mentioned that you do not use ketostix anymore as well, so there is no way for you to remotely be able to give an accurate answer. Ketostix are not always perfect, but they are better than nothing. I could go on a 500 calorie/day carb diet and lose "weight". If your assessment of being in ketosis is simply by losing weight ONLY, then I could also use this with a 500 calorie carb diet as well, as I will be losing "weight". A full protein meal will be highly gluconeogenic, thus converting proteins as sources of glucose, which WILL throw you out of the ketogenic window. If ratios of protein intake is higher than that of fat, you will be converting a lot of protein into glucose (and probably losing a lot of muscle at the same time). Knowing this, it would be very innaccurate to have an aspartame sweetened drink, and blame it for the cause of you not losing weight. MS was dead right when she mentioned that the dizziness and lightheadedness is a result of LOWERED blood sugar levels and NOT raised blood sugar levels. This in return only makes aspartame look like a "friend" of ketosis. If you are sick from the use of aspartame, then by all means stop its use, its common sense.

BTW, I second the suggestion of a basic Biochem class for a better understanding of your misconeptions.

BMJ

 

[MS]

MR BMJ, You've brought up something that's been bugging me since KWKSLVR posted his weight loss results.....even now he is losing around 5lbs a week. If it were all fat, that would be something like a caloric deficit of 2500 cals per day, 24/7. I truly doubt this is the case. His contunued high weight loss (like a lot of folks on Atkin's type diets) makes me concerned that he's losing a lot of muscle. He would only need a caloric deficit of around 700-800 cals per day to lose the same 5 lbs of muscle each week. The main thing is that he's happy with his diet results. But to suggest that this is a healthy type of weight loss doesn't ring true to me. I do feel losing excess fluid has gotta be good for him though.

I have not seen KWSLVR's diet before. I hadn't realized it was high protein and relatively low fat. On top of this, I'm guessing he is obese? Obese people have a much harder time establishing initial ketosis, so it's even more important for them to limit their protein intake and keep fat high until ketosis has stabilized. KWKSLVR, you no doubt think I'm picking on you. Truth is I'm concerned, not only about your own health, but about you spreading misinformation that could be harmful to others. I'm not talking about aspartame now (telling someone to avoid aspartame is actually pretty sound advice for anyone, but for other reasons than inhibition of ketosis).

As far as the reliability of ketostix, they are certainly the best we have for quick, in home testing. But if you are morbidly obese there is no excuse in my mind for doing a keto diet unless you are under the close supervision of a Dr. who can monitor not only blood ketones, but glycemic control, blood pressure, triglycerides, liver enzymes, kidney function and actual fat loss (as opposed to weight loss). Please be safe KWKSLVR.

 

[FitnessFrk]

keto diets don't work for everyone...

 

[KWKSLVR]

Sorry I’m so late responding, I’ve been studying for finals. I had a response typed out last night then my computer froze and I lost the whole thing L, so here I try again LoL.

By the way, your symptoms (and passing out on a keto diet ) are symptoms of LOW blood sugar, NOT high!!

My wording was bad. My implication was that I thought it was raising my blood sugar since I was feeling like it was coming to a crash so quickly after drinking the stuff. Theres a lot of things I can’t drink even know. I ventured out on about ¼ can of Diet RC Cola the other day and it about killed me LoL. But everyone is different.

With your high calorie intake in your first two weeks you were probably inhibiting ketosis, and in your third week you finally got your blood sugar low enough to enter true ketosis. The transition (when your blood sugar is at it's lowest) is the period when MANY people feel dizzy, generally unwell and even pass out. Whatever. Obviously YOU should avoid aspartame because you believe it's bad for you.

I agree. I’m learning about metabolism and I’ve read stories about how many people who go on low carb diets loose weight while eating a few hundred carbs OVER maintenance. I go nuts on Wing night down here, probably eat 50 of those bastards, hell, we hit wing night at different places all through the week and it never seems to inhibit me. I don’t really watch calories, that just happen to come out below maintenance which works for me (and I’m not even sure where my own maintenance level is)

aside from that, congrats on your weight loss efforts. 40 pounds in 5 weeks must feel pretty good. Man, you were holding a lot of fluid! I'll bet your blood pressure dropped tons after those first 2 weeks?

Thanks man. Yeah, my Blood pressure was somewhere like 170/85 and now its 105/62 last time I checked (I know at least the bottom number is right heheh). I’ve got it written down at my parents house. My dad has all of that kind of gadgetry so I use his stuff.

KWIKSILVER...How do you know what kind of "weight" you are losing by only reading scale readings and not by bodyfat analysis? I have seen your before pictures, and frankly, I wouldn't be surprised that someone of your previous stature would not be able to lose 40 pounds of WATER alone very very easily.

I’m under the impression that the human body can usually only retain something like 8lbs of water???

WHERES THE FAT????

Heres a sample of my days foods, I’ll list the totals at the end:
Breakfast: 4 Strips Bacon and 4 Scrambled eggs.
Lunch: Big Ole 12 Oz Steak and ½ Cup Green Beans. Mayo or Hot Sauce for the Steak(which is broiled)
Dinner: Chicken Wings (My GOD do I eat these ) They are fried in oil, skin on, usually about 15 wings. ½ Cup Green Beans, 2 Cups Salad.
Snacks: Pork Rinds and the occasional Atkins Bar.
Totals:
Fat: 192
Protein: 221
Carbs: 12
Calories: 2710 (+ 250 if I eat an Atkins Bar and 80 if I eat Pork Rinds (only 5 grams of fat out of those Pork Rinds)

I can see that by all the protein and NO fat (except fot the small amount in the chicken wings), that you ARE PROBABLY NOT IN KETOSIS.

95 grams of fat is a small amount???? (thats whats in the wings) So how much should i be eating?

MR BMJ, You've brought up something that's been bugging me since KWKSLVR posted his weight loss results.....even now he is losing around 5lbs a week. If it were all fat, that would be something like a caloric deficit of 2500 cals per day, 24/7. I truly doubt this is the case.

Just for the record, for the past 3 or 4 months I’ve been loosing somewhere around a pound a week. I know better than to let it drop that quickly. Lets talk about muscle here for a second. I feel like I’ve gained muscle, and I also think my biceps show it. I know that my increased abilities have to do with loosing 75lbs, but I don’t think loosing weight alone has taken me from not being able to do a single push up, to being up to 3 sets of 15. (modest I know, but it’s a start). Maybe my protein is still to high? Suggest a way on how to lower it while keeping fat up. The only thing I EVER count are my Carbs. Heck, it took me forever to add up the stuff in the sample above The fact of the matter is that I refer to Atkins because it’s the only material I read. This stuff is not a hobby for me. My hobbies are cars, guitar, etc, not diet and exercise. I know that he is wrong on certain things, but the truth of the matter is that I still see people write the exact same things that he says. I know its not perfect, hopefully its better than nothing.So give me a sample diet that fits within the Atkins guide lines that is higher in fat and lower in protein and out of good faith I will try it. I had 1 ketostix left that I just tried and it did not register + for Ketosis

 

[Triple J]

Your diet could be more nutritional. Lose some of the bacon and those chicken wings for God's sakes. Increase the healthy fats like olive oil, and eat some salmon. Get some more brocoli and variety of veggies, dip'em in Newman's dressings. Eat some avocados and some nuts.