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Perfect year round steroid?

Perfect steroid to run year round /least sides /best outcome!!?

  • Equipoise

    Votes: 29 14.8%
  • Masteron

    Votes: 2 1.0%
  • Test 250

    Votes: 47 24.0%
  • Deca 350

    Votes: 10 5.1%
  • Winny

    Votes: 10 5.1%
  • Tren

    Votes: 7 3.6%
  • dbol

    Votes: 9 4.6%
  • Proviron

    Votes: 3 1.5%
  • Sustanon

    Votes: 18 9.2%
  • and last but not least --- PRIMO ---

    Votes: 60 30.6%

  • Total voters
    196
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sparetire

New member
In your opinion guys, what would be the perfect steroid to run year round that would get decent results, help immensely in the gym, etc. considering you have hcg?

I've been contemplating trying this. I'll keep everything low-dose and run hcg when needed. Looking for a lean cut-up machine...I'm reall interested in your veteran experienced questions :p
 
I stay on eq all year 600mg every 2 weeks, winny 4-6 weeks on, 3 months off.
sparetire said:
In your opinion guys, what would be the perfect steroid to run year round that would get decent results, help immensely in the gym, etc. considering you have hcg?

I've been contemplating trying this. I'll keep everything low-dose and run hcg when needed. Looking for a lean cut-up machine...I'm reall interested in your veteran experienced questions :p
 
the only thing i would stay on year round is test.

Test has a multitude of functions in your body - it would be dumb to run anything that suppresses natural test.
 
If you ran test year round you'd shut down natty test for good - wouldn't you?
I voted Primo cause it's not supposed to shut you down. Not fantastic gains but almost no sides. If I had the money and I was sure it was safe I'd run it year round and do two 3-4 month cycles of test and EQ every year. That should get you large and keep you there ;)

Satch? 100mg of primo a week would be worth doing? Hell, even I could afford that.
 
I would say test also, but I could only imagine how difficult it would be to recover (your nuts) from that "year round test" cycle if you stopped... :worried:
 
What you are proposing is more like TRT. That is a lifetime commitment, not that I'm opposed.

Test for Inject
Anavar for Oral
 
UA_Iron said:
the only thing i would stay on year round is test.

Test has a multitude of functions in your body - it would be dumb to run anything that suppresses natural test.

agree on all points.
 
why shut yourself down with anything other then test? u need test! well, I NEED TEST. primo would be ok, but what would 100mg really do?
 
alltraps said:
why shut yourself down with anything other then test? u need test! well, I NEED TEST. primo would be ok, but what would 100mg really do?

probably not a dramatic change in the short run, but if running it year long i suppose it would add some lean mass with ZERO SIDES AND NO SHUTDOWN!!!
 
its a myth that primo won't shut down natty test if its run at effective dosages Bill lewellyn talks about this in anabolics 2005 yes primo is not as hard on natural test at as other aas's but to say you can run anything in your body at an affective dose and not have your body not recognize the elvated hormone levels and adjust its own production accordingly is incorrect according to what i've read in that book....primo would be and excellent year rounder because it is much easier on your body but unless your satch and can run a gram a week without batting an eye the rest of us poor boys will have to make do with test or eq.....i know a ton of guys that run eq at 400-500mg's year round and they love it.
 
i've stayed on test for 10 mos straight at low doses 250-500mgtops with no natural test shutdown and still continually made gains in size and strength. i know my nat test wasn't to low considering i knocked up my fiance at the begining of the 10th month.
 
I'm not sure about 100mg's of primo a week not shutting down test that low of dose is possible to not affect your own production but like others have said what good is 100mg's a week especailly if your at a pretty high level of development i don't think you could even use that as a maintenance dose let alone grow off of it but i'll bump this for satch he knows way more about primo than i do i'm curious how high a dose of primo you could go to without shutting down your own natural test
 
dannomight said:
i've stayed on test for 10 mos straight at low doses 250-500mgtops with no natural test shutdown and still continually made gains in size and strength. i know my nat test wasn't to low considering i knocked up my fiance at the begining of the 10th month.


sorry bro, BUT YOU HAVE NO IDEA what you are saying! just cuz you knocked your chick up doenst mean your nat test is not ZERO!!!!! even at 100mg of test a week, you will be shut right down. get some blood work done and you;ll see.
 
ALLTRAPS..

all literature indicates that primo at 100mg a week wont have any affects on HPTA.
gains on 100mg a week minimum at most..
but drag that out for 1 year and you may have something solid.

it sure as hell is safer than running 100mg test per week.
 
There are cases where people run extended amounts of times on anadrol and halotestin but these are for severe wasting away diseases - or in the case of halo testosterone deficiencies (rarely prescribed).

I'd have to imagine that if primo worked so well for a year round steroid that it might be accepted in the US as a TRT drug, but I'm not sure.

Either way, it'd be stupid to suppress natural testosterone with something other than testosterone because like I said earlier - testosterone has many functions in the body, artificial derivatives will not satisfy them all.
 
and to answer the original post..

deca 350mg per week would yield more gains than the others..
more sides too.
 
I stay on eq all year with no test and it raised my test leves to 3000 steady. I never had blood work with primo but 100mg would be nice to know how much it raises, if it does.
UA_Iron said:
There are cases where people run extended amounts of times on anadrol and halotestin but these are for severe wasting away diseases - or in the case of halo testosterone deficiencies (rarely prescribed).

I'd have to imagine that if primo worked so well for a year round steroid that it might be accepted in the US as a TRT drug, but I'm not sure.

Either way, it'd be stupid to suppress natural testosterone with something other than testosterone because like I said earlier - testosterone has many functions in the body, artificial derivatives will not satisfy them all.
 
you kids are making me want to try a long cycle..
like test 200 .. how long do you think you would go before it shut you down.
i was reading about goodfellow doing 250 for 11months straight.
 
satchboogie said:
and to answer the original post..

deca 350mg per week would yield more gains than the others..
more sides too.


we have to think about what going on here though....think libido, erectile function, not just gains......this is why test is optimal....now 100mg test 100mg primo is even more so
 
bicepts101 said:
we have to think about what going on here though....think libido, erectile function, not just gains......this is why test is optimal....now 100mg test 100mg primo is even more so

I agree with that...low doses of test and primo. I'm on 250mg test/300mg primo/50mg winny ed now. I will lower that to 125mg test/200mg primo soon probably
 
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wow, so much controversy! It's funny how everyone is arguing which steroid will shut you down vs which one will not. But no one remembers that in my original post that i basically said considering if i have hcg on hand to counter-act shut down... :p. lol..

I personally would try and run eq or primo year round. A guy who originally hooked me up with my first cycle was pretty much on eq/primo year round and this guy looked phenominal! His body bf was about 4% and he never did cardio, just worked out moderately.. I have to admit, he was the perfect salesman for steroids though...lol..

i think if i had primo farms like satch, i'd run primo all year.. lol..
 
Ulter said:
Test is best. Proviron would not shut you down. But it won't do much for you either in the gym, which was the question.

true but i was thinking more along the lines of looks. ya know, harden up a little and strip some water. plus im sure it wouldn't be to bad for you in the bedroom either.

wasnt it sort of like viagra, before viagra came out?
 
sparetire said:
wow, so much controversy! It's funny how everyone is arguing which steroid will shut you down vs which one will not. But no one remembers that in my original post that i basically said considering if i have hcg on hand to counter-act shut down... :p. lol..

I personally would try and run eq or primo year round. A guy who originally hooked me up with my first cycle was pretty much on eq/primo year round and this guy looked phenominal! His body bf was about 4% and he never did cardio, just worked out moderately.. I have to admit, he was the perfect salesman for steroids though...lol..

i think if i had primo farms like satch, i'd run primo all year.. lol..


bro hcg does nothing for test while exogenous test is being used. it will keep testes from atrophying and thats it. you will still be shut down regarless.
 
bicepts101 said:
bro hcg does nothing for test while exogenous test is being used. it will keep testes from atrophying and thats it. you will still be shut down regarless.


dam, i've been under the assumption all this time that it would turn everything back on..my bad..
 
dannomight said:
i've stayed on test for 10 mos straight at low doses 250-500mgtops with no natural test shutdown and still continually made gains in size and strength. i know my nat test wasn't to low considering i knocked up my fiance at the begining of the 10th month.
hate to be the bearer of bad news homie, but it wasnt YOU that knocked up your fiance if you had been on test for 10 months...
time for a sit down , make her level with you if you are serious about marriage !!
 
Extra_Strong said:
you kids are making me want to try a long cycle..
like test 200 .. how long do you think you would go before it shut you down.
i was reading about goodfellow doing 250 for 11months straight.
how long till your shut down ? try about 48 hours after your body realizes there is more test in it than it needs...
in other words , you are shut down in the first week my friend.
 
LVTitan said:
hate to be the bearer of bad news homie, but it wasnt YOU that knocked up your fiance if you had been on test for 10 months...
time for a sit down , make her level with you if you are serious about marriage !!


not necessarily true bro....lots of bro having kids while on cycle...it only take one little sperm bro
 
sparetire said:
dam, i've been under the assumption all this time that it would turn everything back on..my bad..


the whole thing behind using HCG during cycle is too keep the testes at their normal size. so when u come off u dont need to worry about recovering the testes cause they are atrophyed. this makes recovery easier and the body can start to begin reviving natural test production.
 
dannomight said:
i've stayed on test for 10 mos straight at low doses 250-500mgtops with no natural test shutdown and still continually made gains in size and strength. i know my nat test wasn't to low considering i knocked up my fiance at the begining of the 10th month.
congrats
 
250 Test per week
600 EQ per week
75mgs Proviron ED


Nuff said! Done it before many years ago for about 7 months straight and I was lean, pumped, vascular and fairly hard.
 
I've been on Test for 11 months now - 200mg/week for the first 8 months - 500 mg for about the last 3 - next week, I'm cutting back to 200 mg/week again - my nuts are still there; of course I'm a bit older (39) and have a bunch of kids already and a had a v-sect about 5 years ago; so my situation may be a little different.
 
Carth said:
250 Test per week
600 EQ per week
75mgs Proviron ED


Nuff said! Done it before many years ago for about 7 months straight and I was lean, pumped, vascular and fairly hard.

i thought you said to me before you didn't use gear other than basic hrt!! LIES!! ALL LIES!!

rofls..j/j
:heart:
 
Why is test listed twice in the poll? I went with eq... but I would never and have never injected hcg into my body.
 
maccer said:
why would u never inject HCG?

I do not believe there is any real evidence that it elevates your body's natural productoin of androgens after it clears you system...it is just a temporary boost. It greatly elevates your estragen levels,and in many does so as much as it does testosterone. I am personally sensitive to estragen and have no desire to boost my estragen production beyond what the steroids already do. I have never used it and never had a problem with testicular atrophy on cycles lasting over a year at low doses, nor in recoery post cycle.
 
sparetire said:
i thought you said to me before you didn't use gear other than basic hrt!! LIES!! ALL LIES!!

rofls..j/j
:heart:


Read VERY CAREFULLY what I said. I said I done it MANY, MANY years ago! I'm not fucking 21 years old you know!
 
Carth said:
Read VERY CAREFULLY what I said. I said I done it MANY, MANY years ago! I'm not fucking 21 years old you know!

roid rage baby!!
4 weeks out my man how we doin?
 
satchboogie said:
roid rage baby!!
4 weeks out my man how we doin?

LMFAO! Not good! Not where I want to be. And certainly not where I was like last year. I just hate Tren. I really fucking do! Plus I have been so busy lately with work. Not getting enough sleep etc etc.

And to be honest. I just get a little ticked off by bros that DON'T SEEM TO READ PROPERLY! Oops! There I go again. Roid rage! Sorry! :worried:

Please...next time I talk shit bros. Just ignore it ok. Its not me. Its me on Tren and no sleep and too little food and too much stress. I'll be better by August.
 
thats why ill never use tren again..
i woke up every 2 hours all dizzy and shit.. sweaty.

losing sleep sure as hell is not worth anything!!!
 
UA_Iron said:
There are cases where people run extended amounts of times on anadrol and halotestin but these are for severe wasting away diseases - or in the case of halo testosterone deficiencies (rarely prescribed).

I'd have to imagine that if primo worked so well for a year round steroid that it might be accepted in the US as a TRT drug, but I'm not sure.

Either way, it'd be stupid to suppress natural testosterone with something other than testosterone because like I said earlier - testosterone has many functions in the body, artificial derivatives will not satisfy them all.

Because you seem very educated, what are these other functioins? no one has ever elaborated to tell me exactly what they are?
 
Carth said:
Read VERY CAREFULLY what I said. I said I done it MANY, MANY years ago! I'm not fucking 21 years old you know!

geezz... maybe you can take nolva/a-dex to get your estros in tack bro..you're roid raging is out of control! lol..

I WAS JOKING MAN!

:qt:
 
WHY shut down with low dose test when you can take 100mg primo per week with ZERO SHUTDOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
no problems here..
in fact, been busier than normal.
dont forget i'm also on 50mg provis per day
 
satchboogie said:
WHY shut down with low dose test when you can take 100mg primo per week with ZERO SHUTDOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my primo comes in 200mgs ... think that will work for me satch? After I finish this upcoming 3rd cycle starting in july, i'll let myself recover completely and then i'm going to try a year round 200mgs a week primo.. this should be interesting...
 
sparetire said:
my primo comes in 200mgs ... think that will work for me satch? After I finish this upcoming 3rd cycle starting in july, i'll let myself recover completely and then i'm going to try a year round 200mgs a week primo.. this should be interesting...

that SHOULD be quite interesting bro.
although 200mg may just shut you down..
some reserach shows it wont..
while some indicates it may.

100mg is a safe bet..
even 150mg.
 
satchboogie said:
no problems here..
in fact, been busier than normal.
dont forget i'm also on 50mg provis per day
What if you weren't using the proviron? Do you think that you would still be somewhat busy?
 
satchboogie said:
that SHOULD be quite interesting bro.
although 200mg may just shut you down..
some reserach shows it wont..
while some indicates it may.

100mg is a safe bet..
even 150mg.

This might sound like a retarded question, but what if I inject only 1/2 cc of 200mgs per week instead of 1cc? would that be considered about a 100mg dose ? I know it's still 200mgs in concentration.. I could always start out at 1cc and then dose 1/2 eow...
 
sparetire said:
geezz... maybe you can take nolva/a-dex to get your estros in tack bro..you're roid raging is out of control! lol..

I WAS JOKING MAN!

:qt:

If it seems like that. Well then...I apologize. I'm sorry. BUT THIS IS ALL SATCHS FAULT!! Because of his training ED routine. And training up to twice a day routine. And because of the fact that I just started training as of last month...well....I was forced to use FUCKING TREN!!! All this shit just to catch up to Satch!

Look what you made me do Satch! Look at what I have become! All because of you! Damn you Satch! Damn you Tren!!!!
 
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Carth said:
If it seems like that. Well then...I apologize. I'm sorry. BUT THIS IS ALL SATCHS FAULT!! Because of his training ED routine. And training up to twice a day routine. And because of the fact that I just started training as of last month...well....I was forced to use FUCKING TREN!!! All this shit just to catch up to Satch!

Look what you made me do Satch! Look at what I have become! All because of you! Damn you Satch! Damn you Tren!!!!


np at all bro! it's satch's fault ... let's just blame satch! he should have given you some of his primo so you wouldn't have to go through your roid rage on tren! hehehe.. ;P
 
sparetire said:
np at all bro! it's satch's fault ... let's just blame satch! he should have given you some of his primo so you wouldn't have to go through your roid rage on tren! hehehe.. ;P


LOL......
 
vio said:
How about turanabol 20mg a day, like the east germans did back in the 70's. :D

i don't know how safe I would feel run orals for a year bro. That was the whole point of my thread - the best , safest steroid with the least side effects. I know running ot at 40mgs a day will give you nice results for 4-6 weeks, from what i have read, but there has been cases of people getting testicular cancer while on heavier doses of OT, but who knows what kind of toll that would put on your system if you ran it year round :worried:
 
sparetire said:
This might sound like a retarded question, but what if I inject only 1/2 cc of 200mgs per week instead of 1cc? would that be considered about a 100mg dose ? I know it's still 200mgs in concentration.. I could always start out at 1cc and then dose 1/2 eow...

yeah man, a half a cc would be 100mg. just do 1/2cc a week, although personally, i say do a cc a week, 200mg is borderline from what satch said... so give it a shot, even if you shut down, i dont think the recovery would be that bad.
 
sparetire said:
I know running ot at 40mgs a day will give you nice results for 4-6 weeks, from what i have read, but there has been cases of people getting testicular cancer while on heavier doses of OT, .........:worried:
WHOA......................

I haven't heard or read that anywhere. conventional wisdom is that anadrol is the only AAS that has been shown to actually CAUSE cancer.

can you post up a link to the studies or info on OT and testicular cancer?
 
oh dam, now i have find that website i read that info off!!! i hate working..will get the info back to you all, but the dosing was 200mgs per day which caused the cancer, btw!!! LOL.. i don't think anyone here is running it that high

i found one website, here it is:

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/75504122/ABSTRACT

but it doesn't go into details on the subject. I can't find the exact article where it explains his dosage, but it was fairly high and for a long time.. but i only found 1 instance of cancer relationship to this drug, but i think it's an isolated instance..
 
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Well in my opinion there is no "Perfect year round steriod" but if your going to be on then you might as well be on test!
 
125-250mg test and 200-300mg Primo year-round.
 
vio said:
How about turanabol 20mg a day, like the east germans did back in the 70's. :D

Aside from the 17aa safety issues, and shutdown issues from running it year round (even 20mg would shut you down)...you would also have to cycle it. In my experience Tbol loses its effect after a few weeks. I believe the E Germans cycled it for the same reason...
 
Carth said:
If it seems like that. Well then...I apologize. I'm sorry. BUT THIS IS ALL SATCHS FAULT!! Because of his training ED routine. And training up to twice a day routine. And because of the fact that I just started training as of last month...well....I was forced to use FUCKING TREN!!! All this shit just to catch up to Satch!

Look what you made me do Satch! Look at what I have become! All because of you! Damn you Satch! Damn you Tren!!!!


you play in the big leagues, you betta get used the serious heat...
:heart:
 
For those that say 250mg/ week...


are you using 1 shot per week or splitting the dose to 2 shots ?

Also, how would you use either HCG or Clomid or would you use both.


Thanks !
 
monster2929 said:
bump about the myth about primo not shutting down the axis every aas will shut u off no matter wat


its not a myth bro!
there are several studies that proove such.
i cant find em on my new PC, but im sure one of our bros can dig for em.

bump!
 
The Causes of Inhibition

by BBer copied @ anabolic-paradise.com


Elevated hormone levels, in general, will cause inhibition of natural testosterone production. Many bodybuilders have come to believe that elevated estrogen levels alone are the sole cause of inhibition, and believe that by blocking estrogen, they can block inhibition.

This is not true. For example, consider the results seen in the second 2-on / 4-off cycle case study reported on Meso-Rx where Jim used 50 mg/day of trenbolone acetate, which does not aromatize, 50 mg/day of Dianabol, which does aromatize, with 250 mg/day of Cytadren as an aromatase inhibitor and 50 mg/day Clomid as an estrogen receptor blocker. His estrogen levels remained in the normal range, though elevated from baseline, since apparently the Cytadren was not sufficient to block aromatization completely. The Clomid should easily have been able to overcome normal estrogen levels, and so if the estrogen-only theory of inhibition were correct, Jim should have been suffering no inhibition. But the fact is, his testosterone levels dropped to only 1/10 his baseline value. Estrogen alone was not the cause of his inhibition. It could not have been the cause of any of it, given the normal levels and the Clomid use.

So much for the estrogen-only theory of inhibition that has been claimed by other writers. That isn’t to say, though, that estrogen is not also inhibitory: it is.

What then besides estrogen can cause inhibition? DHT, which does not aromatize, has been extensively shown to cause inhibition of testosterone production. Androgen alone, then, is sufficient to cause inhibition. In Jim’s case, androgen use was moderately heavy, and androgen alone would seem the cause of the inhibition.

Progesterone is another hormone that can cause inhibition, when used long-term. Paradoxically, in the short term it can be stimulatory. Other relevant factors include beta agonists, opiates, melatonin, prolactin, and probably other compounds. With the exception of beta agonists (e.g. ephedrine and Clenbuterol) and opiates (natural endorphins on the one hand being inhibitory, and Nubain blocking such inhibition) manipulation of these would not seem useful in bodybuilding.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis (HPTA)

To understand inhibition of testosterone production, we need to know first how it is produced and how production is controlled. The broad general picture is that the hypothalamus receives a variety of inputs, for example, levels of various hormones, and decides whether or not more sex hormones should be produced. If the inputs are high, for example, high estrogen or high androgen or both, then it decides that little or no sex hormones should now be produced, but if all inputs are low, then it may decide that more sex hormones should be produced. It seems that the hypothalamus doesn’t respond only to current hormone levels, but also to the past history of hormone levels.

The hypothalamus itself cannot produce any sex hormones - instead it produces LHRH, or luteinizing hormone (LH) releasing hormone, also called GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone.) This then stimulates the pituitary gland.

The pituitary uses the amount of LHRH as one of its signals in deciding how much LH it should produce. Proper response depends on having sufficient receptors for LHRH. These receptors must be activated for LH to be produced. The pituitary also uses sex hormone levels, both current and the past history, in deciding how much LH to produce. Some aspects of the pituitary’s behavior are peculiar. For example, too much LHRH results in the pituitary downregulating LHRH receptors, with the result that very high LHRH production, which one would think should result in high testosterone production, actually lowers testosterone production. Another oddity is that while high estrogen levels inhibit the pituitary, still some estrogen is required to maintain a high number of LHRH receptors. So both very low and high levels of estrogen can inhibit LH production.

LH produced by the pituitary then stimulates the testicles to produce testosterone. Here, the amount of LH is the main factor, and high levels of sex hormones do not seem to cause inhibition at this level.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Inhibition From AAS Cycles

Because high androgen levels sustained around the clock will cause inhibition, traditional cycles simply cannot avoid inhibition of LH production while on cycle. There are three ways to avoid it:

Avoid having high androgen levels around the clock. This can be done, for example, by using oral AAS only in the morning, with the last dose being approximately at noontime. Even 100 mg/day Dianabol can be used in this fashion with little inhibition. The problem with this approach is that gains are not very good compared to what is seen when high androgen levels are sustained around the clock.
Use an amount and kind of AAS that is low enough to avoid much inhibition. Primobolan at 200-400 mg/week may achieve this effect. Again, gains will be compromised compared to a more substantial cycle. Testosterone esters and Deca are substantially inhibitory even at 100 mg/week so using a low dose of these drugs will simply result in both inhibition and poor gains.
In principle, one could use an antiandrogen, but this would totally defeat the purpose of the cycle.
Where AAS doses are sufficient for good gains, an interesting pattern is seen. For the first two weeks of the cycle, only the hypothalamus is inhibited, and it produces much less LHRH as a result of the high levels of sex hormones it senses. The pituitary is not inhibited at all: in fact, it is actually sensitized, and will respond to LHRH (if any is provided) even moreso than normally. After two weeks however, the pituitary also becomes inhibited, and even if LHRH is provided, the pituitary will produce little or no LH. This then is a deeper type of inhibition. After this point, there seems to be no definite further "switching point" where inhibition again becomes deeper and harder to reverse. As a general rule, I would say that there seems to be little difference between using AAS for 3 weeks vs. 8 weeks: recovery is about the same either way. Between 8 and 12 weeks, it becomes more and more likely that recovery will be difficult and slow, though even at 12 weeks it is common for recovery to not be too problematic, taking only a few weeks. Cycles past 12 weeks seem much more likely to cause substantial problems with recovery. In the hundreds of consultations I have done for people with recovery problems, very few (I can recall two) were for very short cycles such as 6 weeks, while most were for usages of 12 weeks straight or more.

I do not know what changes take place in the hypothalamus and pituitary over a long period of time that result in this problem, but it certainly is true that long-term inhibition makes recovery more difficult on average. I suspect the problem may have to do with change in the "clock" that regulates the pulse rate of LHRH secretion, but I am not sure that that is so.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drugs of Use With Regard to Inhibition

Cytadren: This drug can be used to reduce conversion of testosterone, Dianabol, and Equipoise (not an exclusive list of aromatizable AAS, but the main ones) to estrogen. Some feel that when estrogen levels are kept under control during the cycle, recovery is faster after the cycle is over, though that is not proven. It is a good idea though. And if testosterone esters were used prior to ending the cycle, some levels of these will remain for weeks, and continued use of Cytadren will help prevent conversion to estrogen, and thereby reduce inhibition. The best dosing pattern, in my opinion, is to take ½ tab (125 mg) on arising, and then ¼ tab at six and 12 hours later. Use of more Cytadren than this, or a different pattern, may lead to an adverse effect on cortisol production, with subsequent cortisol rebound after discontinuing the drug. Some individuals suffer some lethargy (feeling of tiredness and laziness, or sleepiness) from Cytadren, but that is uncommon at this dose.

Arimidex: This accomplishes the same purposes as Cytadren but without the possible side effects mentioned above. It is however far more expensive. A typical dose is 1 mg./day. The timing of the dosage does not matter, since the drug has a long half-life.

Clomid: After a cycle is over, Clomid at 50 mg/day is usually very effective in restoring natural testosterone production. It acts by blocking estrogen receptors at the hypothalamus and pituitary. If androgen levels are not elevated, this is enough to cause production of at least normal amounts of LH, or often more LH than normal. During the cycle Clomid cannot prevent inhibition, though some think using it during the cycle will allow a faster recovery afterwards. That is not proven though. If nothing else, though, it is useful as an antigyno/antibloating agent during the cycle.



Nolvadex: This works in the same manner as Clomid, but not nearly so well with regard to reversing inhibition. It is better to use this only as an anti-gyno/antibloating agent, if at all. If Clomid is used, there is no need for Nolvadex.

HCG: This does nothing with regard to inhibition of the hypothalamus and pituitary. Rather it acts like LH, and causes the testicles to produce testosterone just as if LH were present. It is useful then for avoiding testicular atrophy during the cycle. The best dosing method is to use small amounts frequently: 500 IU per day is sufficient, and 1000 IU may optionally be used. The amount may be given as a single daily dose or divided into two doses. Administration may be intramuscular or subcutaneous. More is not better: too much HCG can result in downregulation of the LH receptors in the testes, and is therefore counterproductive. Overdosing of HCG can also result in gynecomastia.

Ephedrine/clenbuterol: It is possible that the beta agonist activities of these drugs may assist in recovery. Personally, I do recommend the use of ephedrine post-cycle to those who can use it. Clenbuterol has the same effect but acts around the clock, having a longer half life, and allowing a higher effective dose (amount times potency) due to having less relative effect on beta receptors in the heart. I am not sure that clenbuterol has any better effect with regard to recovery though.

Oral AAS: These do not assist recovery of natural testosterone production, but if used only in the morning, can help sustain muscle mass while in the recovery phase, with little or no adverse effect on recovery.

Tribulus: If this is of benefit, I have not been able to observe it myself. I have only tried the Tribestan brand, but this is the brand that earned tribulus its reputation.

Melatonin: While disrupted sleep patterns definitely inhibit recovery, I have seen no evidence that taking melatonin at night speeds recovery. It is useful though for those who have allowed their sleep patterns to be disrupted and who wish to reset their natural clocks.
 
satchboogie said:
--------------------------

Drugs of Use With Regard to Inhibition

Cytadren: This drug can be used to reduce conversion of testosterone, Dianabol, and Equipoise (not an exclusive list of aromatizable AAS, but the main ones) to estrogen. Some feel that when estrogen levels are kept under control during the cycle, recovery is faster after the cycle is over, though that is not proven. It is a good idea though. And if testosterone esters were used prior to ending the cycle, some levels of these will remain for weeks, and continued use of Cytadren will help prevent conversion to estrogen, and thereby reduce inhibition. The best dosing pattern, in my opinion, is to take ½ tab (125 mg) on arising, and then ¼ tab at six and 12 hours later. Use of more Cytadren than this, or a different pattern, may lead to an adverse effect on cortisol production, with subsequent cortisol rebound after discontinuing the drug. Some individuals suffer some lethargy (feeling of tiredness and laziness, or sleepiness) from Cytadren, but that is uncommon at this dose.

Arimidex: This accomplishes the same purposes as Cytadren but without the possible side effects mentioned above. It is however far more expensive. A typical dose is 1 mg./day. The timing of the dosage does not matter, since the drug has a long half-life.

Clomid: After a cycle is over, Clomid at 50 mg/day is usually very effective in restoring natural testosterone production. It acts by blocking estrogen receptors at the hypothalamus and pituitary. If androgen levels are not elevated, this is enough to cause production of at least normal amounts of LH, or often more LH than normal. During the cycle Clomid cannot prevent inhibition, though some think using it during the cycle will allow a faster recovery afterwards. That is not proven though. If nothing else, though, it is useful as an antigyno/antibloating agent during the cycle.



Nolvadex: This works in the same manner as Clomid, but not nearly so well with regard to reversing inhibition. It is better to use this only as an anti-gyno/antibloating agent, if at all. If Clomid is used, there is no need for Nolvadex.

HCG: This does nothing with regard to inhibition of the hypothalamus and pituitary. Rather it acts like LH, and causes the testicles to produce testosterone just as if LH were present. It is useful then for avoiding testicular atrophy during the cycle. The best dosing method is to use small amounts frequently: 500 IU per day is sufficient, and 1000 IU may optionally be used. The amount may be given as a single daily dose or divided into two doses. Administration may be intramuscular or subcutaneous. More is not better: too much HCG can result in downregulation of the LH receptors in the testes, and is therefore counterproductive. Overdosing of HCG can also result in gynecomastia.

Ephedrine/clenbuterol: It is possible that the beta agonist activities of these drugs may assist in recovery. Personally, I do recommend the use of ephedrine post-cycle to those who can use it. Clenbuterol has the same effect but acts around the clock, having a longer half life, and allowing a higher effective dose (amount times potency) due to having less relative effect on beta receptors in the heart. I am not sure that clenbuterol has any better effect with regard to recovery though.

Oral AAS: These do not assist recovery of natural testosterone production, but if used only in the morning, can help sustain muscle mass while in the recovery phase, with little or no adverse effect on recovery.

Tribulus: If this is of benefit, I have not been able to observe it myself. I have only tried the Tribestan brand, but this is the brand that earned tribulus its reputation.

Melatonin: While disrupted sleep patterns definitely inhibit recovery, I have seen no evidence that taking melatonin at night speeds recovery. It is useful though for those who have allowed their sleep patterns to be disrupted and who wish to reset their natural clocks.


man satch, i dont like what it says in there about nolva vs. clomid for recovery. all i have is nolva and hcg. been running the hcg for 2 weeks and have the rest of this week before i up the nolva... what do you think?
 
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c/s you moved to Houston finaplix from college st.?? how's everything overthere bro???

since you're sensitve to estragen what do you take all year round to combat the estrogen?????


BodyByFinaplix said:
I do not believe there is any real evidence that it elevates your body's natural productoin of androgens after it clears you system...it is just a temporary boost. It greatly elevates your estragen levels,and in many does so as much as it does testosterone. I am personally sensitive to estragen and have no desire to boost my estragen production beyond what the steroids already do. I have never used it and never had a problem with testicular atrophy on cycles lasting over a year at low doses, nor in recoery post cycle.
 
satchboogie said:
its not a myth bro!
there are several studies that proove such.
i cant find em on my new PC, but im sure one of our bros can dig for em.

bump!
I have read "THE The Causes of Inhibition" Please post some of the "several studies that proove sutch" That you are refering to, thank you.
 
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