Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below coyotekid84
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Re: Pct for different prohormones and otc steroids defined!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so clomid?
so clomid?
Pct for different prohormones and otc steroids defined!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter needtogetaas
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needtogetaas
New member
Re: Pct for different prohormones and otc steroids defined!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you like that yes... I like Sustain Alpha thrown in there... But if you get gyno well using these types of aas or pro's then no clomid is not what you need.
If you like that yes... I like Sustain Alpha thrown in there... But if you get gyno well using these types of aas or pro's then no clomid is not what you need.
coyotekid84
New member
Re: Pct for different prohormones and otc steroids defined!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ok thanks i'm just tryn to figure all this out. i appreciated all these threads. I just got done with a cycle of tren 250 and sus 500, their chemcial compounds are what was described here.
ok thanks i'm just tryn to figure all this out. i appreciated all these threads. I just got done with a cycle of tren 250 and sus 500, their chemcial compounds are what was described here.
needtogetaas
New member
Re: Pct for different prohormones and otc steroids defined!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Send me a pm to talk anytime bro.. Always here to help.
Send me a pm to talk anytime bro.. Always here to help.
needtogetaas
New member
Re: Pct for different prohormones and otc steroids defined!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why take sustain alpha out of the picture when you don't have to would be the better question.
Why take sustain alpha out of the picture when you don't have to would be the better question.
Re: Pct for different prohormones and otc steroids defined!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guesss i could re-phrase the question more along the lines of why would nolvedex not be good idea to run with some of these pro's? Clomid? These compounds I feel are accepted universally as pct for most cycles and a lot of people use them exclusively. I wouldn't use nolvedex for monsterdrol pct because I remember reading it causes a delayed gyno. Is that true?
I guesss i could re-phrase the question more along the lines of why would nolvedex not be good idea to run with some of these pro's? Clomid? These compounds I feel are accepted universally as pct for most cycles and a lot of people use them exclusively. I wouldn't use nolvedex for monsterdrol pct because I remember reading it causes a delayed gyno. Is that true?
2evil
Well-known member
Re: Pct for different prohormones and otc steroids defined!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Which "it" - Nolva or Monsterdrol? Monsterdrol reduces estrogen levels while on and doesn't directly cause delayed gyno.
You're body can overcompensate post cycle and raise estrogen levels too high but a combo of Sustain/Unleashed/Post Cycle along with a decent diet and hard training will prevent this from happening.
Adex/ Letro should be on hand probably not needed at all bro...
Which "it" - Nolva or Monsterdrol? Monsterdrol reduces estrogen levels while on and doesn't directly cause delayed gyno.
You're body can overcompensate post cycle and raise estrogen levels too high but a combo of Sustain/Unleashed/Post Cycle along with a decent diet and hard training will prevent this from happening.
Adex/ Letro should be on hand probably not needed at all bro...
needtogetaas
New member
Re: Pct for different prohormones and otc steroids defined!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 May;95(1-5):83-9.
Aromatase inhibitors: cellular and molecular effects.
Miller WR, Anderson TJ, White S, Larionov A, Murray J, Evans D, Krause A, Dixon JM.
Breast Unit, Western General Hospital, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK. [email protected]
Marked cellular and molecular changes may occur in breast cancers following treatment of postmenopausal breast cancer patients with aromatase inhibitors. Neoadjuvant protocols, in which treatment is given with the primary tumour still within the breast, are particularly illuminating. In Edinburgh, we have shown that 3 months treatment with either anastrozole, exemestane or letrozole produces pathological responses in the majority of oestrogen receptor (ER)-rich tumours (39/59) as manifested by reduced cellularity/increased fibrosis. Changes in histological grading may also take place, most notably a reduction in mitotic figures. This probably reflects an influence on proliferation as most tumours (82%) show a marked decrease in the proliferation marker, Ki67. These effects are generally more dramatic than seen with tamoxifen given in the same setting. Differences between aromatase inhibitors and tamoxifen are also apparent in changes in steroid hormone expression. Thus, immuno-staining for progesterone receptor (PgR) is reduced in almost all cases by aromatase inhibitors, becoming undetectable in many. This contrasts with effects of tamoxifen in which the most common change on PgR is to increase expression. Changes in proliferation occur rapidly following the onset of exposure to aromatase inhibitors. Thus, neoadjuvant studies with letrozole in which tumour was sampled before and after 14 days and 3 months treatment show that decreased expression of Ki67 occur at 14 days and, in many cases, the effect is greater at 14 days than 3 months. These early changes precede evidence of clinical response but do not predict for it. However, this study design has allowed RNA analysis of sequential biopsies taken during the neoadjuvant therapy. Based on clustering techniques, it has been possible to subdivide tumours into groups showing distinct patterns of molecular changes. These changes in tumour gene expression may allow definition of tumour cohorts with differing sensitivity to aromatase inhibitors and permit early recognition of response and resistance
19nors like tren,dceca,nnp all nandro based aas and prohormanes cause a rise in progesterone/prolactin. With the presence of estrogen they will then form gyno.. Nolxadex Act so much like a estrogen at progesterone receptor expression increases when using nolva thus causing progesterone/prolactin gyno to form or get worse.
Inhibition of the HPTA is caused by either elevated androgen, estrogen or progesterone levels. When you stop your cycle your progesterone levels do not magical shoot right down to normal. In fact because most people do not even think about this aspect of a nandro cycle they find them selfs shut down for a long long time and wondering why. This is also why people will often experience
gyno rebound even after there pct with nolva is over after a nandro cycle. When you come of nolva there is a spike in estrogen and a lot of open receptors. Added with still high progesterone levels and BAM instant gyno rebound with nolva to thank..
Lets add one more thing about nolva.
Parkinson's Drugs Can Damage Heart Valves
01.03.07, 12:00 AM ET
WEDNESDAY, Jan. 3 (HealthDay News) -- Two drugs commonly used to treat Parkinson's disease can cause harm to heart valves, according to two studies in the Jan. 4 New England Journal of Medicine.
The drugs, pergolide and cabergoline, are both from a class of medications called "ergot-derived dopamine receptor agonists." Ergot is a fungus, and ergot-derived drugs are used not only in the treatment of Parkinson's but also for restless leg syndrome and migraine headaches.
Ergot-derived dopamine receptor agonists were also in the now banned diet drug Fen-phen -- also associated with heart valve disease.
"We uncovered the biomedical reason why Fen-phen had particular side effects on the heart," said Dr. Bryan L. Roth, of the Department of Pharmacology at the University of North Carolina and author of an accompanying journal editorial.
"We evaluated other medications and predicted that they would have the same side effect on the heart," he said. "Our predictions were verified in these two studies."
Based on the new findings, Roth wants the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to look at all drugs that have this side effect with an eye to banning pergolide (brand named Permax) and cabergoline (Dostinex). "This side effect is very dangerous," he said. "It could result in an individual's death or undergoing valve replacement surgery," he added.
These types of drugs interact with a receptor in the heart valve, causing the valve to overgrow and become floppy and leaky, Roth explained.
In the first report, Dr. Edeltraut Garbe, from the Institute of Clinical Pharmacology, Charite, University Medicine, Berlin, and colleagues collected data on more than 11,000 people 40 to 80 years of age who were taking anti-Parkinson's drugs between 1988 and 2005.
The researchers found that, among 31 patients with newly diagnosed cardiac valve problems, six were taking pergolide, six were taking cabergoline, and 19 had not taken any dopamine agonist in the past year.
Almost 30 percent of the patients taking pergolide or cabergoline were at increased risk for heart valve problems.
"In this study, use of the dopamine agonists pergolide and cabergoline was associated with an increased risk of newly diagnosed cardiac-valve regurgitation," the authors concluded.
In the second study, a team of Italian researchers led by Dr. Renzo Zanettini, from the Istituti Clinici di Perfezionamento, Milan, studied 155 patients taking dopamine agonists for Parkinson's disease. Among these patients, 64 were taking pergolide, 49 were taking cabergoline, and 42 were taking non-ergot-derived dopamine agonists. In addition, there were 90 controls.
Zanettini's group found that about 23 percent of the patients taking pergolide had heart valve problems, as did about 29 percent of the patients taking cabergoline.
In contrast, none of the patients taking non-ergot-derived dopamine agonists had a heart problem, while 5.6 percent of the control patients did.
In addition, patients who took higher doses of pergolide or cabergoline had more advanced heart valve disease, the researchers reported.
"The frequency of clinically important valve regurgitation was significantly increased in patients taking pergolide or cabergoline, but not in patients taking non-ergot-derived dopamine agonists, as compared with control subjects," the researchers wrote. "These findings should be considered in evaluating the risk-benefit ratio of treatment with ergot derivatives," they concluded.
"If you have Parkinson's, you need to find out from your doctor if you're taking a medication that could cause this risk of serious heart damage," Roth said. "I would recommend not prescribing these medications at all. Our hope is that these two studies will encourage the FDA to remove these drugs from use."
Roth also noted that the drug Ecstasy also has the potential to damage the heart in the same way. "People who take Ecstasy on a regular basis may be at risk for this particular side effect," he said.
In a related story, a new drug to treat early Parkinson's, called transdermal rotigotine, has shown in a phase 3 clinical trial that it is safe and effective, according to a report in Neurology.
Rotigotine is a non-ergot-derived dopamine receptor agonist delivered via a patch designed for once-a-day application. The drug is currently being reviewed by the FDA. It is currently marketed in Europe as therapy for early-stage Parkinson's and has received a favorable review for advanced-stage Parkinson's, according to the German drug company Schwarz Pharma, the maker of rotigotine.
http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/hea...out600564.html
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 May;95(1-5):83-9.
Aromatase inhibitors: cellular and molecular effects.
Miller WR, Anderson TJ, White S, Larionov A, Murray J, Evans D, Krause A, Dixon JM.
Breast Unit, Western General Hospital, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK. [email protected]
Marked cellular and molecular changes may occur in breast cancers following treatment of postmenopausal breast cancer patients with aromatase inhibitors. Neoadjuvant protocols, in which treatment is given with the primary tumour still within the breast, are particularly illuminating. In Edinburgh, we have shown that 3 months treatment with either anastrozole, exemestane or letrozole produces pathological responses in the majority of oestrogen receptor (ER)-rich tumours (39/59) as manifested by reduced cellularity/increased fibrosis. Changes in histological grading may also take place, most notably a reduction in mitotic figures. This probably reflects an influence on proliferation as most tumours (82%) show a marked decrease in the proliferation marker, Ki67. These effects are generally more dramatic than seen with tamoxifen given in the same setting. Differences between aromatase inhibitors and tamoxifen are also apparent in changes in steroid hormone expression. Thus, immuno-staining for progesterone receptor (PgR) is reduced in almost all cases by aromatase inhibitors, becoming undetectable in many. This contrasts with effects of tamoxifen in which the most common change on PgR is to increase expression. Changes in proliferation occur rapidly following the onset of exposure to aromatase inhibitors. Thus, neoadjuvant studies with letrozole in which tumour was sampled before and after 14 days and 3 months treatment show that decreased expression of Ki67 occur at 14 days and, in many cases, the effect is greater at 14 days than 3 months. These early changes precede evidence of clinical response but do not predict for it. However, this study design has allowed RNA analysis of sequential biopsies taken during the neoadjuvant therapy. Based on clustering techniques, it has been possible to subdivide tumours into groups showing distinct patterns of molecular changes. These changes in tumour gene expression may allow definition of tumour cohorts with differing sensitivity to aromatase inhibitors and permit early recognition of response and resistance
19nors like tren,dceca,nnp all nandro based aas and prohormanes cause a rise in progesterone/prolactin. With the presence of estrogen they will then form gyno.. Nolxadex Act so much like a estrogen at progesterone receptor expression increases when using nolva thus causing progesterone/prolactin gyno to form or get worse.
Inhibition of the HPTA is caused by either elevated androgen, estrogen or progesterone levels. When you stop your cycle your progesterone levels do not magical shoot right down to normal. In fact because most people do not even think about this aspect of a nandro cycle they find them selfs shut down for a long long time and wondering why. This is also why people will often experience
gyno rebound even after there pct with nolva is over after a nandro cycle. When you come of nolva there is a spike in estrogen and a lot of open receptors. Added with still high progesterone levels and BAM instant gyno rebound with nolva to thank..
Lets add one more thing about nolva.
Parkinson's Drugs Can Damage Heart Valves
01.03.07, 12:00 AM ET
WEDNESDAY, Jan. 3 (HealthDay News) -- Two drugs commonly used to treat Parkinson's disease can cause harm to heart valves, according to two studies in the Jan. 4 New England Journal of Medicine.
The drugs, pergolide and cabergoline, are both from a class of medications called "ergot-derived dopamine receptor agonists." Ergot is a fungus, and ergot-derived drugs are used not only in the treatment of Parkinson's but also for restless leg syndrome and migraine headaches.
Ergot-derived dopamine receptor agonists were also in the now banned diet drug Fen-phen -- also associated with heart valve disease.
"We uncovered the biomedical reason why Fen-phen had particular side effects on the heart," said Dr. Bryan L. Roth, of the Department of Pharmacology at the University of North Carolina and author of an accompanying journal editorial.
"We evaluated other medications and predicted that they would have the same side effect on the heart," he said. "Our predictions were verified in these two studies."
Based on the new findings, Roth wants the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to look at all drugs that have this side effect with an eye to banning pergolide (brand named Permax) and cabergoline (Dostinex). "This side effect is very dangerous," he said. "It could result in an individual's death or undergoing valve replacement surgery," he added.
These types of drugs interact with a receptor in the heart valve, causing the valve to overgrow and become floppy and leaky, Roth explained.
In the first report, Dr. Edeltraut Garbe, from the Institute of Clinical Pharmacology, Charite, University Medicine, Berlin, and colleagues collected data on more than 11,000 people 40 to 80 years of age who were taking anti-Parkinson's drugs between 1988 and 2005.
The researchers found that, among 31 patients with newly diagnosed cardiac valve problems, six were taking pergolide, six were taking cabergoline, and 19 had not taken any dopamine agonist in the past year.
Almost 30 percent of the patients taking pergolide or cabergoline were at increased risk for heart valve problems.
"In this study, use of the dopamine agonists pergolide and cabergoline was associated with an increased risk of newly diagnosed cardiac-valve regurgitation," the authors concluded.
In the second study, a team of Italian researchers led by Dr. Renzo Zanettini, from the Istituti Clinici di Perfezionamento, Milan, studied 155 patients taking dopamine agonists for Parkinson's disease. Among these patients, 64 were taking pergolide, 49 were taking cabergoline, and 42 were taking non-ergot-derived dopamine agonists. In addition, there were 90 controls.
Zanettini's group found that about 23 percent of the patients taking pergolide had heart valve problems, as did about 29 percent of the patients taking cabergoline.
In contrast, none of the patients taking non-ergot-derived dopamine agonists had a heart problem, while 5.6 percent of the control patients did.
In addition, patients who took higher doses of pergolide or cabergoline had more advanced heart valve disease, the researchers reported.
"The frequency of clinically important valve regurgitation was significantly increased in patients taking pergolide or cabergoline, but not in patients taking non-ergot-derived dopamine agonists, as compared with control subjects," the researchers wrote. "These findings should be considered in evaluating the risk-benefit ratio of treatment with ergot derivatives," they concluded.
"If you have Parkinson's, you need to find out from your doctor if you're taking a medication that could cause this risk of serious heart damage," Roth said. "I would recommend not prescribing these medications at all. Our hope is that these two studies will encourage the FDA to remove these drugs from use."
Roth also noted that the drug Ecstasy also has the potential to damage the heart in the same way. "People who take Ecstasy on a regular basis may be at risk for this particular side effect," he said.
In a related story, a new drug to treat early Parkinson's, called transdermal rotigotine, has shown in a phase 3 clinical trial that it is safe and effective, according to a report in Neurology.
Rotigotine is a non-ergot-derived dopamine receptor agonist delivered via a patch designed for once-a-day application. The drug is currently being reviewed by the FDA. It is currently marketed in Europe as therapy for early-stage Parkinson's and has received a favorable review for advanced-stage Parkinson's, according to the German drug company Schwarz Pharma, the maker of rotigotine.
http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/hea...out600564.html
needtogetaas
New member
Re: Pct for different prohormones and otc steroids defined!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
good read
good read
