PCT expectations & actual reality

[caribeman]

I’ve read several posts on PCT and came to the conclusion that PCT is a personal thing. What might work for one user may not work for another. But the point here is perhaps the expectations set beforehand by the user.

For what I’ve read the user has an expectation that they will be producing natural Test at 100% after their run at PCT. This (at least for me in the past) has not been the case. Although I’ve run different types of PCT I’ve found that my natural test production takes a while to get back to normal levels.

Say you run a standard cycle of Test Cyp @ 500mg for 12 weeks and Arimidex 3x’s per week. 2 weeks after your last shot you start HCG, clomid, whatever and 2 months after you get a blood test, where do you expect your natural test level to be at? 300? 400? 500? Not for me.

It has been my experience that the highest I’ve seen it was around 200 after the prescribed PCT. Usually taking up to 4 to 6 months (of clean eating and working out hard) to see a suitable level of 500-800 of my own test production based on blood test.


Would like to know your experiences on the subject.

 

[C.K.]

You'd have to ask another board I'm sure no one here runs clomid only pct's...

 

[caribeman]

No where is it stated a clomid only PCT..... perhaps a better reader

 

[babushka]

I have the same time frame about 4-6months to fully recover after cycle and I don't think that is something wrong with me.It is normal thing.

 

[caribeman]

You are correct, it is normal. Just some peeps swear they will be 100% good to go right after PCT.

 

[cgar1228]

You are correct, it is normal. Just some peeps swear they will be 100% good to go right after PCT.

i can't speak for other but i'm pretty sure most of them don't get bloods right after pct and just go off of how they feel. you can feel great with low Test

 

[caribeman]

cgar, you are correct. Blood test are a must after a cycle. Perhaps even the start of the new cycle after being off for a few weeks.

 

[Gamer2Be08]

You'd have to ask another board I'm sure no one here runs clomid only pct's...

I have.
I like clomid.
My libido and energy levels are high on clomid.
Clomid PCTs I never have a crash period...

I am scared to run a non SERM PCT..

 

[cgar1228]

I have.
I like clomid.
My libido and energy levels are high on clomid.
Clomid PCTs I never have a crash period...

I am scared to run a non SERM PCT..

i'm scared I might wack (not in a good way) myself on Clomid. I used it for 3 days and was emotional like a girl having pms or worse.

 

[Gamer2Be08]

what was the dose?

I dosed 100/75/50/50

At 100mg, at times I was emotional, not once cried, but got sad and mad easy.

 

[cgar1228]

what was the dose?

25mg/day

 

[caribeman]

what was the dose?

 

[C0LUMB0]

You are correct, it is normal. Just some peeps swear they will be 100% good to go right after PCT.

I think anyone who thinks they are 100% GTG after 4 weeks of PCT is kidding themselves .

 

[twenty47]

funny thing about the clomid thing. i got emotional for like 2 days after my last dose.



i cried a little watching something stupid on tv i cant remember what it was.

 

[cgar1228]

funny thing about the clomid thing. i got emotional for like 2 days after my last dose.



i cried a little watching something stupid on tv i cant remember what it was.

lol I would come home from work and the gf would be there. She would say, did you have a rough day and I would be like "yes...". Then she would say come here and give me a hug and I would start crying. I was like wtf is going on

 

[C.K.]

lol I would come home from work and the gf would be there. She would say, did you have a rough day and I would be like "yes...". Then she would say come here and give me a hug and I would start crying. I was like wtf is going on

LMFAO just the thought of some 200 + lb guy breaking down over nothing cracks me up

 

[Nelson Montana]

PCT is one of the most misunderstood aspects of cycle use.

Too many people think you just need to do this and that and voila' you're back to normal. Not so.

Remember, just a few years ago, guys were giving advice such as "you can;t take too much nolvadex -- it's just playing it safe." Of course, that's retarded advice. But that's the wisdom of self professed message board gurus.

Drugs help control sides of PC -- but you need your body to get back on track, which is why I developed supplements that help the body do just that -- recover, instead of masking the symptoms.

Clomid blows gaping ass. Even in people where it helps, the "recovery" ends when you stop using it. It's essentially worthless IMO, though some people like using it along with the supps.

Also, to truely recover the HPTA to 100% I believe in DOUBLE tie off to time on. In this way you can cycle for many years with no problems. With products like BRIDGE, that makes the in-between time that much easier and more productive.

 

[stevesmi]

this is a good thread.

I tried the natty PCT and my test levels were 98. then i tried the hcg/clomid PCT and it was 119. I think it takes a lot longer to recover then people think.

many cyclists run a 16 week cycle or whatever then run a 1 month PCT, then go 16 weeks off.. and then think they can jump right back on a cycle and be GTG. then 5 years later of doing this over and over again they figure out they are screwed and now must go on HRT FOREVER!!

after much deliberation I have decided to run ONE cycle per year.. that is all.. the cycle will happen during the cooler months of the year .. and also the cycle will be no longer then 10 weeks.. on sustanon you will get a 13 week window, that is a bit more then 3 months to work your ASS OFF in the gym. then you spend the rest of the year mantaining those gains and recovering.

I believe this is the best way.

 

[stevesmi]

Also, to truely recover the HPTA to 100% I believe in DOUBLE tie off to time on. In this way you can cycle for many years with no problems.

+100

 

[Nelson Montana]

this is a good thread.

I tried the natty PCT and my test levels were 98. then i tried the hcg/clomid PCT and it was 119. I think it takes a lot longer to recover then people think.

many cyclists run a 16 week cycle or whatever then run a 1 month PCT, then go 16 weeks off.. and then think they can jump right back on a cycle and be GTG. then 5 years later of doing this over and over again they figure out they are screwed and now must go on HRT FOREVER!!

after much deliberation I have decided to run ONE cycle per year.. that is all.. the cycle will happen during the cooler months of the year .. and also the cycle will be no longer then 10 weeks.. on sustanon you will get a 13 week window, that is a bit more then 3 months to work your ASS OFF in the gym. then you spend the rest of the year mantaining those gains and recovering.

I believe this is the best way.

A perfect example of misleading information. Did you use the clomid AFTERWARD -- because you were longer along in the recovery, so the CLomid probably did nothing. AND you used HCG, which of course will raise test TEMPORARILY. ANd what natty route did you take? POST CYCLE and UNLEASHED? If so, I can;t believe your free wasn;t higher.

There are also a million other factors. Time, dosage, duration of cycles -- what substances were used. It all matters.

Smart move doing shorter cycles. It does help in recovery. This "you're shut down anyway so it doesn;t matter" mentality is off base.

 

[stevesmi]

also I will add that those that say time on= time off + PCT I would like to see your blood test results of where they were at before your cycle and then after that.

i doubt if you were 500 TT before then you are 500 TT after that short a time frame. perhaps its young guys in their early 20's tho can pull that off but if you are 26+ years old then i am skeptical. i would like to be wrong if someone can post their results before/after.

 

[Nelson Montana]

this is a good thread.

I tried the natty PCT and my test levels were 98. then i tried the hcg/clomid PCT and it was 119. I think it takes a lot longer to recover then people think.

many cyclists run a 16 week cycle or whatever then run a 1 month PCT, then go 16 weeks off.. and then think they can jump right back on a cycle and be GTG. then 5 years later of doing this over and over again they figure out they are screwed and now must go on HRT FOREVER!!

after much deliberation I have decided to run ONE cycle per year.. that is all.. the cycle will happen during the cooler months of the year .. and also the cycle will be no longer then 10 weeks.. on sustanon you will get a 13 week window, that is a bit more then 3 months to work your ASS OFF in the gym. then you spend the rest of the year mantaining those gains and recovering.

I believe this is the best way.

A perfect example of misleading information. Did you use the clomid AFTERWARD -- because you were longer along in the recovery, so the CLomid probably did nothing. AND you used HCG, which of course will raise test TEMPORARILY. And what natty route did you take? POST CYCLE and UNLEASHED? If so, I can;t believe your free wasn;t higher.

There are also a million other factors. Time, dosage, duration of cycles -- what substances were used. It all matters.

Smart move doing shorter cycles. It does help in recovery. This "you're shut down anyway so it doesn;t matter" mentality is off base.

 

[stevesmi]

A perfect example of misleading information. Did you use the clomid AFTERWARD -- because you were longer along in the recovery, so the CLomid probably did nothing. AND you used HCG, which of course will raise test TEMPORARILY. And what natty route did you take? POST CYCLE and UNLEASHED? If so, I can;t believe your free wasn;t higher. quote]

there was a long thread about exactly what I did that was deleted.. the title was "Blood test results, not good guys" it turned into a war between the natty guys and the clomid/nolva guys which wasn't the intention of the thread but rather I was asking for help in correcting my current situation and figuring out how better I can PCT in the future. you commented on that thread several times I can remember, as did just about everyone else

I then did a followup thread with a similar title updating my PCT troubles which got little attention http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...results-part-2-oof-not-good-again-720395.html.

the natty PCT was 2 unleashed bottles, 2 post cycle bottles, hcgenerate from week 7 of my cycle through PCT.

i did keep my balls so i do credit hcgenerate with that. the first cycle i ever did my balls turned to raisins without it.

here is my post from that 2nd thread which details exactly what I took

to review:

29 years old. 2nd cycle. ran a 12 week deca/sustanon cycle. 400mg deca/week.. 500mg sust/week. also took beast 3 weeks .. started HCGenerate week 7 and ran it into PCT.

first PCT was natty for 1 month... Unleashed/post cycle/more HCGenerate/Formestane.

did a blood test. total test was 98. (did not do free test)

ran a 2nd PCT immediately. this time ran hcg 250iu's ED for 20 days. then ran 25-50mg Clomid ED for 20 days. Clomid coincided with hcg for 1 week, meaning the total 2nd PCT was 1 month. also have been running some Unleashed and bridge ED.

its been 2 1/2 months since my last sustanon injection and I've run TWO PCT's both natty and Clomid/hcg.

total testosterone is just 119 (250-1100 is normal range) and free test is 20.2 (35-155 is the range for free test, quest measures differently then labcorp)

what do you guys think I should do now? run a 3rd PCT? or just let the body recover on its own and test again in a month? and how long did it take you to recover from this type of cycle?

 

[stevesmi]

from what I gathered from that 2nd thread I put up on my PCT troubles I was advised to try dostinex and run a stronger PCT which I am doing. also running BRIDGE.. i am almost done with my first bottle and have a 2nd bottle i'm about to open.

any advice is greatly appreciated.. I will say I did 'feel' better on hcg, and clomid made me feel crappy. thats all i can say until i get yet another blood test in another month.

miraculously (or not) i can still bench 280 (my cycle high was 315) and my body looks good still but I have put on 1.5-2% of body fat since my cycle ended. overall weight from the peak is down 7 pounds.

so I am hanging in there but I want to get recovered ASAP before I lose anything else

 

[Nelson Montana]

A perfect example of misleading information. Did you use the clomid AFTERWARD -- because you were longer along in the recovery, so the CLomid probably did nothing. AND you used HCG, which of course will raise test TEMPORARILY. And what natty route did you take? POST CYCLE and UNLEASHED? If so, I can;t believe your free wasn;t higher. quote]

there was a long thread about exactly what I did that was deleted.. the title was "Blood test results, not good guys" it turned into a war between the natty guys and the clomid/nolva guys which wasn't the intention of the thread but rather I was asking for help in correcting my current situation and figuring out how better I can PCT in the future. you commented on that thread several times I can remember, as did just about everyone else

I then did a followup thread with a similar title updating my PCT troubles which got little attention http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...results-part-2-oof-not-good-again-720395.html.

the natty PCT was 2 unleashed bottles, 2 post cycle bottles, hcgenerate from week 7 of my cycle through PCT.

i did keep my balls so i do credit hcgenerate with that. the first cycle i ever did my balls turned to raisins without it.

here is my post from that 2nd thread which details exactly what I took

to review:

29 years old. 2nd cycle. ran a 12 week deca/sustanon cycle. 400mg deca/week.. 500mg sust/week. also took beast 3 weeks .. started HCGenerate week 7 and ran it into PCT.

first PCT was natty for 1 month... Unleashed/post cycle/more HCGenerate/Formestane.

did a blood test. total test was 98. (did not do free test)

ran a 2nd PCT immediately. this time ran hcg 250iu's ED for 20 days. then ran 25-50mg Clomid ED for 20 days. Clomid coincided with hcg for 1 week, meaning the total 2nd PCT was 1 month. also have been running some Unleashed and bridge ED.

its been 2 1/2 months since my last sustanon injection and I've run TWO PCT's both natty and Clomid/hcg.

total testosterone is just 119 (250-1100 is normal range) and free test is 20.2 (35-155 is the range for free test, quest measures differently then labcorp)

what do you guys think I should do now? run a 3rd PCT? or just let the body recover on its own and test again in a month? and how long did it take you to recover from this type of cycle?

Once again, I recommend HCG ALONG WITH the natty supps. Since you didn;t do that, you didn;t really follow the proper course. Then you ADDED it ALONG with Clomid and are accrediting Clmid for the improvment. It was the HCG, not the clomid.

At a certain poitn, there's only so much that can be done. Continue with UNLEASHED, POST CYCLE and BRIDGE and give it time. Check it in another 2 months. I'll bet your numbers will be a lot better. If not, HRT may be in order.

 

[stevesmi]

Once again, I recommend HCG ALONG WITH the natty supps. Since you didn;t do that, you didn;t really follow the proper course. Then you ADDED it ALONG with Clomid and are accrediting Clmid for the improvment. It was the HCG, not the clomid.

At a certain poitn, there's only so much that can be done. Continue with UNLEASHED, POST CYCLE and BRIDGE and give it time. Check it in another 2 months. I'll bet your numbers will be a lot better. If not, HRT may be in order.

Nelson I am NOT accrediting clomid to any improvement.. I cant accept a TT of 119 and consider that anything but a failure 2 1/2 months after my last injection

I dont understand why i would need HRT at 29 years old when I did a 12 week cycle and attempted 3 PCT's throwing everything at the problem. how can that happen? when i read guys doing 20 week tren cycles and recovering just fine ?

 

[C.K.]

Did you get bloods before your cycle steve?

 

[stevesmi]

Did you get bloods before your cycle steve?

yes i mentioned that in my first thread. they were 450-550. in that range when i've test it several times before

2% of which was free.. my free test has always been solid. even now i get a good percentage amount even while my total tset is low

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson I am NOT accrediting clomid to any improvement.. I cant accept a TT of 119 and consider that anything but a failure 2 1/2 months after my last injection

I dont understand why i would need HRT at 29 years old when I did a 12 week cycle and attempted 3 PCT's throwing everything at the problem. how can that happen? when i read guys doing 20 week tren cycles and recovering just fine ?

Everyone is different. I believe anything over 10 weeks is a long ass cycle. But that's me. Give it a little more time. You may bounce back.

 

[downunder hunter]

Ill just add here that I had a long recovery after my last cycle.

I was stupid and jumped into it early without being fully recovered from my previous cycle, my free test was just below the scale. Stupid to start I know! Plus my prolactin and progeserone was high.

The cycle went ok but It was only a few weeks into I realised I should have waited.

When I came off I got bloods done 6 weeks after last inject (i was on test prop/winny/tren ace) I was in the high range of the scale for free test, estrogen was high, prolactin had gone down and progesterone was a little high

12 weeks after last inject my free test was back below normal range I was devestated!

I did nolva for 2 weeks and some otc supps got retested and I was off the charts and I was fully recovered everything else was in range.

 

[caribeman]

Steve I beleive that shorter cycles (8 to 10 weeks) are best as you mentioned. The deal is that sometimes peeps go by what they read from boards. it takes a person like you to understand whats best for you. Perhaps even 2 cycles a year of 10 weeks each will leave you with 32 weeks to recover, more than enough.

 

[caribeman]

Guys, no matter what you must do a blood test before and after taking into consideration the time after your last injection. Without blood test you dont stand a chance to know where you are. Also, I have never taken HCGenerate but heard good and bad feedback from it. BUT I have yet to see anyone taken it and following with a blood test to really assess its merits. FOR ME PERSONALLY, HCG makes coming off a lot easier. Good clean food, working out, rest and TIME brings me back to where I need to be.

Steve, I am sure in a few months you will be back where you were before.

 

[stevesmi]

Guys, no matter what you must do a blood test before and after taking into consideration the time after your last injection. Without blood test you dont stand a chance to know where you are. Also, I have never taken HCGenerate but heard good and bad feedback from it. BUT I have yet to see anyone taken it and following with a blood test to really assess its merits. FOR ME PERSONALLY, HCG makes coming off a lot easier. Good clean food, working out, rest and TIME brings me back to where I need to be.

Steve, I am sure in a few months you will be back where you were before.

hcgenerate kept my balls.. i will say that.

thanks bro, i'm sure I will return. and like you said before thankfully I did a blood test and didn't go and jump on another cycle.

 

[stevesmi]

Everyone is different. I believe anything over 10 weeks is a long ass cycle. But that's me. Give it a little more time. You may bounce back.

hope so. i just dont want to go HRT this early in my life.

 

[caribeman]

I really doubt you will have to. BTW, how old are you? I read that your original levels were around 500 or so.

 

[digit0x]

i can't speak for other but i'm pretty sure most of them don't get bloods right after pct and just go off of how they feel. you can feel great with low Test

I'm guilty of not testing, but I notice in small things when my test is back to normal. Libido, for one. Another are my joints. I will go through a period of up to 4 weeks where my joints become a little drier than normal get aches etc.

I think people expect too much from PCT. The best you can hope for is to slightly reduce the length and severity of the crash. You cannot simply avoid it all together.

 

[babushka]

I was 850 pre cycle,shouldn't even cycle.
Just finished my PCT 1 week ago feeling ok.I'll wait 2 more months before the blood test if it will be around 800 area I'll consider Sarms good diet, rather than roids in the future.

 

[needtogetarmy]

recovery is different for everyone but based on the empirical studies I have read it takes approximately 6 months for your test level to get back to normal so that is in line with some of the posts above.

 

[stevesmi]

recovery is different for everyone but based on the empirical studies I have read it takes approximately 6 months for your test level to get back to normal so that is in line with some of the posts above.

my hope is New Years I will be ready to go again. I already have everything for my next cycle waiting to be cracked open.

it would of been 5 months since my last injection.

 

[stevesmi]

I really doubt you will have to. BTW, how old are you? I read that your original levels were around 500 or so.

29. if i was 40 i would be more concerned but I'm sure I will bounce back.

 

[caribeman]

Steve actually if you were 40 there will be less concern as your test drops with age. Im 44, I should know

 

[stevesmi]

Steve actually if you were 40 there will be less concern as your test drops with age. Im 44, I should know

I mean it would be easier for me to recover from a cycle if i made too much damage at 29 vs. 40.

i think running 400mg deca per week for 12 weeks really did some damage.

we should make an over/under of what my total test will be next month lol.

 

[caribeman]

yeah dude, lets start taking bets LOL!!