Pat, Par, any other experts--how much prohormone does it take to overload 3HSD?

[Lumberg]

It looks like all the best prohormones use 3-HSD to convert (particularly Nor-diol, 4-AD, and 1-AD). All these questions refer to oral dosage.

Questions:

1. What is the maximum amount of prohormone that can be converted in one dose by 3HSD?

2. I assume that most of the conversion occurs within about an hour or so, so could you take the maximum dose every hour or so, or is there another limiting factor as far as a per-day type of dosage?

3. Is there a one-to-one correspondence in maximum amounts, meaning if 3HSD is overloaded with say 400 mg 1-AD, would the figure be the same for the others, and would 200 mg 1-AD plus 100 mg each of Nor-diol plus 4-AD would be a similar maximum figure.

4. (Slightly unrelated) Is Clomid alone sufficient for post-cycle therapy or is Arimidex also indicated for estrogen rebound (mostly in regards to the 1-AD)?

Thanks

JC

 

[pa1ad]

It looks like all the best prohormones use 3-HSD to convert (particularly Nor-diol, 4-AD, and 1-AD). All these questions refer to oral dosage.

Questions:

1. What is the maximum amount of prohormone that can be converted in one dose by 3HSD?

2. I assume that most of the conversion occurs within about an hour or so, so could you take the maximum dose every hour or so, or is there another limiting factor as far as a per-day type of dosage?

3. Is there a one-to-one correspondence in maximum amounts, meaning if 3HSD is overloaded with say 400 mg 1-AD, would the figure be the same for the others, and would 200 mg 1-AD plus 100 mg each of Nor-diol plus 4-AD would be a similar maximum figure.

4. (Slightly unrelated) Is Clomid alone sufficient for post-cycle therapy or is Arimidex also indicated for estrogen rebound (mostly in regards to the 1-AD)?

Thanks

JC

]


I do not know the answer to this question. I do know that the threshold for 17beta-HSD is very high because large dosages of androstenedione raise testosterone levels very very high.

I suspect that the threshold is alot higher than we think, and that maybe even the enzyme limitation factor is not relevant to us at all

 

[Lumberg]

Thanks Pat. Would like to hear anyone else's feedback on this, especially the clomid question.

JC

 

[fhg43]

Thanks Pat. Would like to hear anyone else's feedback on this, especially the clomid question.

JC

I think Arimidex/Liquidex would be helpful for the cycle, but not necessary. I would use .5mg EOD during the cycle and .5-1mg EOD post cycle w/clomid. Run the Clomid 3 weeks post cycle and run L-dex 4 weeks post cycle.

FHG

 

[Lumberg]

Well I would certainly not run arimidex with just 1-AD--that would be redundant. It's only useful for post-cycle rebound.

I think doing moderate doses of all three (say 200mg 1-ad am, 200 mg 4-ad preworkout, and 200 mg Nor-Diol at bedtime) would keep libido and estrogen at closer to normal levels without leading to too many sides, thus leading to synergistic gains since estrogens do help gains in their own way. However of course I would have arimidex on hand in case my nipples started getting itchy.

And I don't think it would shut you down any worse than 1-ad alone.

JC

 

[fhg43]

Well I would certainly not run arimidex with just 1-AD--that would be redundant. It's only useful for post-cycle rebound.

I think doing moderate doses of all three (say 200mg 1-ad am, 200 mg 4-ad preworkout, and 200 mg Nor-Diol at bedtime) would keep libido and estrogen at closer to normal levels without leading to too many sides, thus leading to synergistic gains since estrogens do help gains in their own way. However of course I would have arimidex on hand in case my nipples started getting itchy.

And I don't think it would shut you down any worse than 1-ad alone.

JC

This makes sense. I had gotten advice from a few people to rum the liquidex thru the cycle-that seemed odd as 1-AD is non or low aromatizing. I did get suggestions to use it w/clomid post cyle and run it a week longer than clomid. It was also suggested to taper liquidex so as not to have another estorgen rebound-this seemed logical. If you did rebound again just restart liquidex and continue for a few more weeks until natural test levels have recovered to a better level. That might not work for everyone but sounds like a good idea.

FHG