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Packing on Muscle
- Thread starter velvett
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I wondered where that thread went as well. I agree with you Vel, b/c from April 05 to my recent pics (Aug 05), I put on some major muscle. I'm talking about going to the store, putting some slabs of meat on each Quad, Lats, Delts, and Glutes....
I was in no way Fat or Full of water as you can see by the pics in my sig. I have never used Steriods and never will. I was ~160 in my sig pic (Aug 05) and from my 1st shoot 145 lbs (April 05).
7 point pinch was 9.8% in August, 1st shoot was only 11-12 % BF.
I cannot back it up with medical journals or alot of case studies, etc. There are my pics, there are the numbers, For me, I know that 15 lbs was not ALL muscle but I totally think M24K Kicked some MAJOR ass! Look at her strength & power?!? Bravo Girl!
You go girl!
I was in no way Fat or Full of water as you can see by the pics in my sig. I have never used Steriods and never will. I was ~160 in my sig pic (Aug 05) and from my 1st shoot 145 lbs (April 05).
7 point pinch was 9.8% in August, 1st shoot was only 11-12 % BF.
I cannot back it up with medical journals or alot of case studies, etc. There are my pics, there are the numbers, For me, I know that 15 lbs was not ALL muscle but I totally think M24K Kicked some MAJOR ass! Look at her strength & power?!? Bravo Girl!
You go girl!
I don't think anyone was meaning that 24K wasn't putting on muscle. I certainly think that she IS, I think the "issue" was the numbers and the short amount of time.
COming off her comp diet, she is apt to gain some muscle of course. Couple that with her strength and determination - of course she gains some muscle. But 8lbs in 3 weeks is quite a bit, in a VERY short amount of time.
Bunny, you had about 5 months to gain muscle - 15lbs in that time, with the right diet, training and genetics is possible. You are talking about 16-20 weeks. That makes sense.
Velvetts numbers are more "normal" and what is expected. 2-4lbs of muscle in 3 months (12 weeks) WITHOUT steroids, is 100% attainable and KEEPABLE. This is why training is a LONG TERM thing, and why people sometimes take a YEAR off comp dieting - to gain max amt of muscle.
COming off her comp diet, she is apt to gain some muscle of course. Couple that with her strength and determination - of course she gains some muscle. But 8lbs in 3 weeks is quite a bit, in a VERY short amount of time.
Bunny, you had about 5 months to gain muscle - 15lbs in that time, with the right diet, training and genetics is possible. You are talking about 16-20 weeks. That makes sense.
Velvetts numbers are more "normal" and what is expected. 2-4lbs of muscle in 3 months (12 weeks) WITHOUT steroids, is 100% attainable and KEEPABLE. This is why training is a LONG TERM thing, and why people sometimes take a YEAR off comp dieting - to gain max amt of muscle.
T
The Shadow
Guest
^^Same sentence.
It also depends on the current level of development, basal metabolic rate, and even bodyfat.
Remember - the body is like a radiator.
If the radiator is wrapped in insulation(fat), you wont give off as much heat(burning bodyfat)......so being leaner helps to put on more leanmass, which helps you burn more bodyfat...
its a nice Catch-22
It also depends on the current level of development, basal metabolic rate, and even bodyfat.
Remember - the body is like a radiator.
If the radiator is wrapped in insulation(fat), you wont give off as much heat(burning bodyfat)......so being leaner helps to put on more leanmass, which helps you burn more bodyfat...
its a nice Catch-22
J
jenscats5
Guest
Daisy_Girl said:
Oooooh!! Can't wait to see what I can do with 6 months!!
Daisy_Girl said:
8-16 lbs in a year, really is that attainable without 'assistance'? I'm not saying by any means that you are wrong but im curious. I know for a newbee they will tend to put on muscle quicker. Also age has alot to do with it. So I believe maybe it is possible.
Some pro's that have a hard time holding on the 8-10lbs lbm yearly. I'm guessing that it has to do with the whole cutting process though. Easy to gain but during the process of cutting you tend to lose some of it.
I'd love to add 8-10lbs of LBM a year, my body tends to add it easily but when I cut eats up alot of it.
Wait. 16lbs a year. Clean. Every year?
Ummm... no. Given all the right variables, there is simply no way to maintain that kind of growth curve: that would mean that in 10 years of clean training.... 160lbs of lean mass added?
I am sure that is not what you meant... er... was it?
Ummm... no. Given all the right variables, there is simply no way to maintain that kind of growth curve: that would mean that in 10 years of clean training.... 160lbs of lean mass added?
I am sure that is not what you meant... er... was it?
I guess I should clarify - I didn't mean that you would be able to gain - 8-16 lbs, cut down and maintain that entire gain into the next year. Hell, you could get the flu and find yourself 5 steps backwards from where you started.
So no over the course of 5 years you would not be able to pack on 40-80 lbs - I would think that would be clear that that is not what I meant to most of the most experienced members here but I guess I not.
And yes of course there are variables - body type, time training, eating habits, consistency but by that very same notion to say one can not gain more than 8lbs per year would be held by those very same variables.
I'm friends with sisters, and a few years ago they sought out to train together (one is an avid runner and has been her entire life). You could actually watch the one sister gain mass - she could gain both fat and muscle fairly easily. Now the other sister (the runner) who was more religious at her training and proper eating did not see visible gains but she did reshape what she had which was amazing in itself because everything she worked for she torn back down through running.
So we can debate at great length the basic variables or state whether or not there is a possibilty based on those variables and really confuse and alienate some people who's just busting their ass to achieve some of their personal goals.
I'll go get some coffee and we can talk about muscle fiber types.
So no over the course of 5 years you would not be able to pack on 40-80 lbs - I would think that would be clear that that is not what I meant to most of the most experienced members here but I guess I not.
And yes of course there are variables - body type, time training, eating habits, consistency but by that very same notion to say one can not gain more than 8lbs per year would be held by those very same variables.
I'm friends with sisters, and a few years ago they sought out to train together (one is an avid runner and has been her entire life). You could actually watch the one sister gain mass - she could gain both fat and muscle fairly easily. Now the other sister (the runner) who was more religious at her training and proper eating did not see visible gains but she did reshape what she had which was amazing in itself because everything she worked for she torn back down through running.
So we can debate at great length the basic variables or state whether or not there is a possibilty based on those variables and really confuse and alienate some people who's just busting their ass to achieve some of their personal goals.
I'll go get some coffee and we can talk about muscle fiber types.
I started this thread because I don't want anyone that is new or fairly new or returning to the idea of weight lifting to think that they can't achieve certain things.
I also don't want to see people thinking (especially lurkers) that the only way they can achieve their muscle gainning goals is through the use of steriods.
I also don't want to see people thinking (especially lurkers) that the only way they can achieve their muscle gainning goals is through the use of steriods.
velvett said:
aye, and on the money.. it is AMAZING how an untrained or poorly trained/poorly fed body can react to intense training and great diet.. and YES, HUGE gains can be made in LBM and HUGE reduction of BF when there is so much room for improvement in those areas.. shite, look at my pics linked below, Vel is right on the money with idea that ANYTHING is possible.
Now, for those lifetime clean BBs or serious athletes that have been hardcore training for YEARS, a few lbs a year is a BIG DEAL, as they have in many cases reached the limmits of their genetic potential. There are VERY few folks that are actually in that category...
vachelle72
New member
*Bunny* said:I'm Sorry BUT WHOLLY Before & Afters!!! I've only listened and read about your awesome transformation, but WOW... GREAT pics!!!!
I second that, WOW , what an inspiration ...Kudo's to you!!!
Frisky said:
Excellent point. People that are newer to training will certainly add more than someone who has been training for years.
Eventually, the muscle gain will slow. You will never add muscle like you do the first couple years you train HARD.
But given the right diet and training program, as well as factoring in genetics, then there is no reason you shouldn't be able to gain muscle regularly. The actual amount WILL differ depending on the individual.
Female Figure/Fitness Pro's go through very strict dieting - which can account for muscle loss. Additionally, they RARELY do true BULKING - due to photo shoots, appearances, etc. They cannot allow themselves to change dramatically - even in the off season. This can account for the reduced amt of muscle mass they can gain, and why it is so hard for them to put on muscle at times.
Well the same could be said for cardio and eating clean.
Your body will grow accustomed to both until you find a new way to do the very same thing.
As for Pro - you're talking situation because of their lifestyle and because of their need to look a certain way X amount of the time their ability to accomplish certain goals in a specific way is hindered but even then not impossible providing their natural.
Beating down your body through abusive cutting rituals is merely that, abuse and loss of muscle is your consequence how bad that consequence is is dependant of the very same factors that went into growing those muscles.
But for the masses and not the 4 or 5 women here do compete (and how many Pros do we have here?) shouldn't be lead in a direction that they can't have the body they want without the help of AS.
Your body will grow accustomed to both until you find a new way to do the very same thing.
As for Pro - you're talking situation because of their lifestyle and because of their need to look a certain way X amount of the time their ability to accomplish certain goals in a specific way is hindered but even then not impossible providing their natural.
Beating down your body through abusive cutting rituals is merely that, abuse and loss of muscle is your consequence how bad that consequence is is dependant of the very same factors that went into growing those muscles.
But for the masses and not the 4 or 5 women here do compete (and how many Pros do we have here?) shouldn't be lead in a direction that they can't have the body they want without the help of AS.
You CAN have the body you want with out the help of AS.. thats not at all what I'm saying.
velvett said:
We are thinking along the same lines. I was thinking about this this morning ... and was going to further explain what I was implying. I was thinking about the concept of "losing fat" and "cutting for a competition". The two are dramatically different.
If someone cuts for a comp, then they will lose muscle. Their keepable gains are less than someone who is just losing fat. When simply losing fat, there is no reason why you cannot keep gains. The typical clean "losing fat" diet is not as stringent, deprived, and restrictive as a comp diet. A comp diet is not ideal for keeping muscle, as we all know.
The vast majority of people here do not compete and therefore, will typically be able to gain muscle, and KEEP the muscle much easier than a person who competes. Obviously, this also depends on diet, training and genetics.
The last sentence there is the most accurate. I don't agree that a novice will be able to keep more of their LBM simply because they don't cut like a top competitor. Whatever LBM the competitor loses while cutting will be replaced very quickly post competition and then the competitor will continue gaining beyond where they were at the beginning of the cut. The competitors lean mass set point is higher and it will be much easier for them to add back any lost mass in a shorter time span. In other words the lean mass they lose over 12 weeks still leaves them with more mass than a novice and will be back 6-8 weeks after the competition.
velvett said:
magic pills, magic juice.. alot fall for that gig. Its sad when they fail. Truely is.
I've talked to women at the gym that honestly think winny is the solution. It will make them drop bf instantnly. Some guy told them or their bf said so. I'm at the point where i am beating my head against a brick wall explaining that a good clean diet and hard training will do more than winny can ever do for you/ with out the side effects.
Sadly enough its all about a 'short cut' the quick route or the easy way out. When a person realizes there is no easy way, not even liposuction will rid you of all the unwanted fat.. I've witnessed this first hand... then they look for the right way.
I killed myslef last year to gain muscle, then I cut. No not alot of women would go to the extremes i did in short time i did but i calculated my gains both fat and LBM and then when I cut and my losses both fat and LBM and I'm quite disappointed at my numbers. ESP all the hard work and dedication i put in.
I know it happens and I kicked ass those last 6 weeks, I should have started cutting earlier but I didn't which led to prolly even more muscle loss.
So yes, in a nutshell I agree with being able to gain a good amt of muscle if the cards are all in a row. It can be done and it can be done free of AS.
I was just seeking info for myself. I am still what I consider a newbee at training/diet and competing. Just sucking up info like a sponge and wringing it out in my little bucket for safe keeping
Frisky said:I was just seeking info for myself. I am still what I consider a newbee at training/diet and competing. Just sucking up info like a sponge and wringing it out in my little bucket for safe keeping
This is exactly what everyone should be doing. Nobody knows EVERYTHING. Even if you think you found what works for you, there is ALWAYS something to tweak, change, and learn from. If you stop seeking advice and taking advice, then you will stop progressing. In order to change your body, you have to LEARN and EXPERIMENT.
I get what your say you can make very good gains naturally with consistent training diet and lifting. How ever there is a big factor of genetics and lean mass gains someone with great genetics can make outstanding lean mass gains with out ever supplementing. As for consistently putting on x amount of muscle ever year once again that can be done but eventually you reach your genetic potential then if you want to continue to make gains your only option is supplementation.velvett said:
I post this all the time. The world's leading researchers do not understand much about how the muscle works. There are certain aspects that are excepted as fact but overall it's not very well understood. If researchers did understand it they would have cured Muscular Dystrophy. But they're not even close.
So train, learn about YOUR body, and eventually you'll look in the mirror and see what you've been after.
strawberry2
Member
Hello Ms. Bunny!
I'm sure others have asked this same question, but do you happen to have a run-down of your diet from beginning to end (now, I'm not asking you to go out of your way and dig up a huge list from months and months) -- but at least a generalization that I can build my own one to follow...? I am just VERY impressed by your "before" and "after" photos. I believe you and I are similar in body types (at least the "before"). I have a personal trainer, and I am doing very well in that Dept, but need all the help I can get to get that "muscle" look! You look FABULOUS!
Thanks for any help you can provide!
I'm sure others have asked this same question, but do you happen to have a run-down of your diet from beginning to end (now, I'm not asking you to go out of your way and dig up a huge list from months and months) -- but at least a generalization that I can build my own one to follow...? I am just VERY impressed by your "before" and "after" photos. I believe you and I are similar in body types (at least the "before"). I have a personal trainer, and I am doing very well in that Dept, but need all the help I can get to get that "muscle" look! You look FABULOUS!
Thanks for any help you can provide! *Bunny* said:I wondered where that thread went as well. I agree with you Vel, b/c from April 05 to my recent pics (Aug 05), I put on some major muscle. I'm talking about going to the store, putting some slabs of meat on each Quad, Lats, Delts, and Glutes....
I was in no way Fat or Full of water as you can see by the pics in my sig. I have never used Steriods and never will. I was ~160 in my sig pic (Aug 05) and from my 1st shoot 145 lbs (April 05).
7 point pinch was 9.8% in August, 1st shoot was only 11-12 % BF.
I cannot back it up with medical journals or alot of case studies, etc. There are my pics, there are the numbers, For me, I know that 15 lbs was not ALL muscle but I totally think M24K Kicked some MAJOR ass! Look at her strength & power?!? Bravo Girl!
You go girl!
strawberry2
Member
Oh, by the way...many of you girls have GREAT abs! That is about one of the hardest muscles on a woman to get the 6-pack look. I have great upper abs, but my lower and obliques are what gives me the most trouble. My trainer gives me certain ab exercises, and I do the little ab wheel (which is great)...but what do you guys do for abs?
J
jenscats5
Guest
strawberry2 said:Oh, by the way...many of you girls have GREAT abs! That is about one of the hardest muscles on a woman to get the 6-pack look. I have great upper abs, but my lower and obliques are what gives me the most trouble. My trainer gives me certain ab exercises, and I do the little ab wheel (which is great)...but what do you guys do for abs?
LOL
The only time I see my lower abs is when I'm dehydrated from not drinking ANY water right before a competition. Otherwise - I'm like you - I can see the uppers but never the lowers. All the water I drink completely hides them..
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
slat1 said:
When I used to train people, I would always laugh when I heard that...like this huge amount of muscle would appear miraculously overnight. I would also laugh because I was at the time busting my ass to gain muscle to compete and knew how hard it was to do so.
Not stating in any way that women won't put on some muscle should they work at it, just dispelling the myth I guess.
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