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OT: Antibiotics?

J

JimmyPineapple

Banned
Hey guys,

I'm in a bit of a tough situation here...

I've been hit with epididymitis and prostatis (infections of the testicles and the prostate, respectively) after (as retarded as it sound) holding my urine in for too long then receiving trauma to my stomach.

Anyway, I live in Canada with an excruciatingly awful healthcare system. I saw a urologist and he prescribed me 6 weeks of Cipro which did not do anything. The typical protocol would be to do an analysis on the prostatic fluid and prescribe a more appropriate type of antibiotic, but the urologist just basically said "if Cipro won't kill it... then you're basically going to have to live with it for the rest of your life". That's it... no trial for other antibiotics.. no ther treatement... just "you're fucked. Thank you. good day"

I've had to endure this shit for 6 months and finding another Urologist in the area is next to impossible. Through some searching I found another guy that was in the same situation as me and said that 2 months of amoxicillin and augmentin got rid of it for him.

Instead of waiting around with low libido and painful ejaculations I'm going to take the matter into my own hands and try to find these antibiotics elsewhere. I don't know what the policy is on here about sources for antibiotics, but if someone could PM me with a reliable place I could acquire them I would so much appreciate it. I think I know where I can get amoxicillin, but I cannot find augmentin for the life of me...

Any input is much appreciated!
 
D-mannose powder and lots of it. or i think they make capsules.

other then that, if Cipro didnt kill it then most typical pharmacueticals wont hurt it Cipro is one BAD motherfucker of a antibiotic so if the infection beat it its pretty dam strong.
 
jeepboi said:
D-mannose powder and lots of it. or i think they make capsules.

other then that, if Cipro didnt kill it then most typical pharmacueticals wont hurt it Cipro is one BAD motherfucker of a antibiotic so if the infection beat it its pretty dam strong.
Click to expand...


Hey man, thanks for the reply!

I've already been taking cranberry extract on a regular basis for the past few months. My bladder isn't infected so I don't think that it is making much different either way...

The thing about these infections is that they are known for being very resistant and hard to find (which make them "chronic") EVEN THOUGH, in my case, they appeared because of accute trauma, and NOT gradually over time (how fucked up is that???). The other guy whom I was in contact with also went through a cycle of Cipro which didn't help. Not only that but my Cipro cycle was only 6 weeks whereas it takes 12 weeks to eradicate epidydimitis...

Either way man, I don't care. I'd rather try a bunch of antibiotics instead of doing nothing. There's no way I'm going to live with this shit for the rest of my life. I refuse to believe it's chronic because it happened literally overnight after my incident.
 
cranberry extract wont do it. Its kinda the same but its not the same.

you gotta try the D-Mannose generally about 750mg 2-3 times a day sometimes more.
 
jeepboi said:
cranberry extract wont do it. Its kinda the same but its not the same.

you gotta try the D-Mannose generally about 750mg 2-3 times a day sometimes more.
Click to expand...


I'll give it a try. It would be a long shot that it would reach my prostate and balls but ... hell... I'm desperate.


You seem to be pretty knowledgable with antibiotics... what is the difference between amoxicillin and augmentin?

The guy said the doctor prescribed both to him and he alternated 500mg pills 3x per day for 2 months...
 
You can buy fish meds at pets stores-including Amoxycillin. The only difference is the price-its much cheaper. Pet stores actually buy imperfect pills from major drug companies and retab them for vet use. Of course the package will say not for human use-but then again so does Equipoise.
 
BigCracker said:
You can buy fish meds at pets stores-including Amoxycillin. The only difference is the price-its much cheaper. Pet stores actually buy imperfect pills from major drug companies and retab them for vet use. Of course the package will say not for human use-but then again so does Equipoise.
Click to expand...

Interesting... so I just walk into any random pet store and ask...? Sorry I'm new to this.. lol
 
JimmyPineapple said:
Interesting... so I just walk into any random pet store and ask...? Sorry I'm new to this.. lol
Click to expand...


Yeah, they're by the aquarium stuff or you could probably order them from an online pet store-just be sure to say "for fish" otherwise you might need an Rx. They usually have penicillin, Amoxycillin, Cephlexin, etc. The mgs are probably about 200 per pill-it will say so on the package. To clear up any confusion about how a 1 inch goldfish consumes such a large pill is they don't eat it. You drop it in the aquarium, disolves and enters their system through the gills.

Anyway, you must have a serious bug. Cipro is the shit they give you when you're exposed to Anthrax. Tough to believe Amoxycillin would be more aggressive in fighting it off.
 
C3bodybuilding said:
Sounds like you might need flagyl.
Click to expand...

Any specific reason for this one? I googled it and although it said it was sometimes used to treat pelvic disorders the side effects are kind of scary (cancirogenic, CNS toxicity, etc.)
 
Flagyl (metronidazole) is more commonly used for anaerobic bacterial infections, but also with activity against gram-. You dont have a UTI, but a genital infection. Urine does not flow near the epi, and the testies and prostate are sexual genital organs. You need to get a recheck, as bacteremia can be fatal. Quinolones like cipro have activity against both gram+/-....you need a C+S test first. Gram- E-coli are most common causes of these infections, but enterics and coag+ staph are causes of epiditimytis (commonly accompanied by prostatitis).

There are much better choices than metron, cuz it can cause pseudomembranous colitis (potentially fatal infection after anaerobic anti-B use).
 
bigrand said:
Flagyl (metronidazole) is more commonly used for anaerobic bacterial infections, but also with activity against gram-. You dont have a UTI, but a genital infection. Urine does not flow near the epi, and the testies and prostate are sexual genital organs. You need to get a recheck, as bacteremia can be fatal. Quinolones like cipro have activity against both gram+/-....you need a C+S test first. Gram- E-coli are most common causes of these infections, but enterics and coag+ staph are causes of epiditimytis (commonly accompanied by prostatitis).

There are much better choices than metron, cuz it can cause pseudomembranous colitis (potentially fatal infection after anaerobic anti-B use).
Click to expand...

Wow. This is the most knowledgeable post I've received so far from inquiring incessantly all over the net for moooonths..

What is a C+S test? I'll need to approach a new doc logically and what you've described is great but I'll need it in layman's terms.

What would you suggest I do thought? And THANK YOU for the help bro..
 
C+S is culture and sensitivity test on a urine specimine to determine the bacteria present and what anti-B its succeptable to. Urine is normaly sterile, so any bacteria in it will be your culprit. We have the same problems with foley catheters in the hospital....urine backflow...thats why you hang the bag below the waist on the bed!

Im suprised your doc is so nonchalant about this. Infections need to be treated and treated properly, you dont "live with them", your doc is the dumbest muther ever and should have his liscence removed.

Dont believe Metro is carcinogenic, and the BEST drug thats been used for prostatitis is trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole because it actually gets into prostatic fluid and tissue much better then other anti-Bs

But most important is to see if it even an infection (C+S), becasue other conditions can cause these things.
 
bigrand said:
C+S is culture and sensitivity test on a urine specimine to determine the bacteria present and what anti-B its succeptable to. Urine is normaly sterile, so any bacteria in it will be your culprit. We have the same problems with foley catheters in the hospital....urine backflow...thats why you hang the bag below the waist on the bed!

Im suprised your doc is so nonchalant about this. Infections need to be treated and treated properly, you dont "live with them", your doc is the dumbest muther ever and should have his liscence removed.

Dont believe Metro is carcinogenic, and the BEST drug thats been used for prostatitis is trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole because it actually gets into prostatic fluid and tissue much better then other anti-Bs

But most important is to see if it even an infection (C+S), becasue other conditions can cause these things.
Click to expand...

Hey man, thanks again for the input.

I had a urine analysis done just after this shit happened to me and it didn't show any signs of bacteria. However, it was one of those "everything" panels and I doubt it tested for anything specific.

You seem to be a really knowledgeable guy - would it be ok if I e-mailed you with questions? I'm obviously going to find another urologist and request a C+S analysis and such but would it be alright if I asked you a couple of questions once I get news? It's so hard to find good information online these days.... please PM me if its OK with you bro.

Thanks again.


edit: PS: I've never had an analysis of the prostatic fluid. Should that be done as well?
 
Hey bigrand,

I just remembered that when I got my urine first tested the doctor said that they'd also do a "culture" on the urine to find any bacteria. I just now saw that that's what the "C" stood for in C&S. That was in the "microbiology" section of the urinalysis. However, I'll be going to the doc tomorrow and request another one, I guess. Last time I did it nothing showed up... I hope they'll find something this time. He'll probably get the same test done but I'm HOPING that C&S is something altogether seperate that they havn't done yet... man o man is this ever complicated. :(
 
JimmyPineapple said:
Hey bigrand,

I just remembered that when I got my urine first tested the doctor said that they'd also do a "culture" on the urine to find any bacteria. I just now saw that that's what the "C" stood for in C&S. That was in the "microbiology" section of the urinalysis. However, I'll be going to the doc tomorrow and request another one, I guess. Last time I did it nothing showed up... I hope they'll find something this time. He'll probably get the same test done but I'm HOPING that C&S is something altogether seperate that they havn't done yet... man o man is this ever complicated. :(
Click to expand...

They already tested you, your correct, microbio C+S....if you were negative for bacteria, then dont worry about a UTI, and MOST likely, Prostatitis and epididymitis as in both conditions, bacteria is usually found in the urine (with prostatitis, a prostate massage before should allow bacteria in the prostate to come out with the urine better, if it is bacterial in nature).
What was your white cell count? Infections like these can cause increases in WBCs. If you are negative for bacteria again, i dont think you have an infection...as in the majority of the cases of your suspected illness, they are bacterial caused (sexually transmitted often).

What are ALL of your symptoms?


PS...
Next time, discuss with your Doctor what the WHOLE story is, they are more responsive to those who are active participants in their treatment. Tell them ALL your symptoms, be detailed, discuss options and what you know about your possible conditions. In my experience, people who go in there with SOME knowledge of their problems and are detailed get better responses. Too many people go in there and say "i fell shitty, whats wrong" and expect the Doc to figure it out from there.....the more you tell them, the more they have to work with and the easier it becomes to find the problem.
 
bigrand said:
They already tested you, your correct, microbio C+S....if you were negative for bacteria, then dont worry about a UTI, and MOST likely, Prostatitis and epididymitis as in both conditions, bacteria is usually found in the urine (with prostatitis, a prostate massage before should allow bacteria in the prostate to come out with the urine better, if it is bacterial in nature).
What was your white cell count? Infections like these can cause increases in WBCs. If you are negative for bacteria again, i dont think you have an infection...as in the majority of the cases of your suspected illness, they are bacterial caused (sexually transmitted often).

What are ALL of your symptoms?


PS...
Next time, discuss with your Doctor what the WHOLE story is, they are more responsive to those who are active participants in their treatment. Tell them ALL your symptoms, be detailed, discuss options and what you know about your possible conditions. In my experience, people who go in there with SOME knowledge of their problems and are detailed get better responses. Too many people go in there and say "i fell shitty, whats wrong" and expect the Doc to figure it out from there.....the more you tell them, the more they have to work with and the easier it becomes to find the problem.
Click to expand...

Hi Bigrand and thanks again for the help!

I actually have a printed document file that I bring in with me and I tried to show my urologist but he barely even looked at it. I insisted on providing more information but he just dismissed most of it and asked a couple of questions and gave me a quick (ugh..) rectal exam and testicular exam. He basically confirmed that I have epididymitis predominatly in the left testicle as well as a mild case of prostatitis.

I'll start with the whole story. and I'd just like to point out that this was absolutely not sexually transmitted.

-In mid august I was working on the computer and was drinking a ton of water. I was feeling particularly lazy and was sitting in such a position that although I had the urge to pee, it didn't feel as "urgent" as it would have been in a normal sitting position. After downing a few litres of water, when I got up I suddenly felt a sharp pain in the pelvic area and barely made it to the bathroom. I peed (it took like 30 seconds before the stream started for some reason)

-the next day I had intense abdominal pain. I had twitching, burning and spasms everywhere from the pelvic region to the top of the abdominal region. also, when I pee'd, my prostate felt *confused* and started twitching and the flow of urine starts and stops intermitently like some broken clutch. I went immediatly to the local clinic and urine test determined that there was no blood in the urine, and a touch-exam of the abdominal region determined no inflamation or anything out of the norm. a blood test was also done

-about a week after this incident I felt my testicles hanging "lower" than usual. I started feeling the discomfort when I walked and especially when I was working out. on the lat pulldown machine it almost felt like I was sitting on my nuts every time I sat down which never happened before. shortly after this I started noticing two lumps forming on the top of my testicles (swelling of the epididymitis) that were painful to the touch and swole up and were especially painful during ejaculation

-2 weeks later I saw my regular doc and he prescribed me 2 weeks of antibiotics. I forget what type it was but it relieved the symptoms somewhat but they returned shortly after the antibiotic regimen was finished. the doc said that was that and I guess I had to live with what I had. by the way, the blood and urine results came back showing slightly elevated albumin & creatinine but the doc thought nothing of it. bacterial analysis also showed no sign of bacteria (this was before the antibiotics)

-about 4 months later (october) my symptoms were not getting any better so I saw a urologist. he prescribed me 6 weeks of Cipro which also somewhat relieved the symptoms but did not get rid of them. the urologist confirmed that I had prostatitis and epidydimitis. when I saw him a 2nd time he basically told me there was nothing else that could be done and appointed me to a therapist for prostate massage to relieve some of the symptoms as well as prescribed me celebrex to relieve the pain.

notes: something I noticed is that I have not had clear urine a single time since this incident. Prior to this happening, I very rarely had dark, foamy urine (it used to be 100% clear like water after drinking a glass of water or two), but now its a regular occurance no matter how much water I drink. I also had a renal scan done which also showed nothing out of the normal.

what's bothering me the most right now is the epidiymitis. although the pain isn't severe, it has significantly lowered my "output", my libido and it's constantly in the way and is affecting my sleep and every other aspect of my life. My testicles look weird as fuck and I just hate the idea that it might decrease my chances of having kids later, considering I'm only 19. my prostatitis isn't as bad if I lay off of the caffeine. I basically just have to urinate 5-6 times a night which is when the symptoms are the worst. the abdominal pains and stuff I can live with also..

Now it's been 6 months since I've been suffering from this shit and I don't know what else I can do. I inquired on a few forums and like I said, found a guy that was in the same situation as me and had epididymitis for 6 years and even Cipro hadn't killed it off until he found some doc in cali that he sent a prostatic fluid and urine sample to, had it analysed and was prescribed augmentin and amoxycillin to and got rid of it within 3 months...

I hope you made it this far, and if you have, I wanna thank you bro.

Please let me know what you think I should do
 
Just a FYI,
Augmentin IS amoxycillin, but with clavulenic acid added. Amox is a beta-lactam class anti-biotic and numerous bacteria are resistant to this class of anti-b becasue they can produce an enzyme called beta-lactamase which breaks the beta-lactam ring making the drug ineffective. Clavulenic acid binds to the enzyme so that the anti-b can work without being degraded. That is why you have this combo of clav and amox (called Clavamox in vet meds).

Im pretty sure the guy you talked to had a C+S of the prostate fluid and found an organism with resistance to beta-lactams and was given the combo. This could be your problem. C+S the prostate fluid. Look up Septra or Bactrim...they are the anti-bs with the ability to better enter the prostate. Clinically, 4-6 weeks use of those generally have a better cure rate than others becasue the others (Cipro) dont get in the prostate as well and the disease has a high reoccurance rate.

See where that goes. If you are still neg for bacteria, i would suggest going to a teaching hospital (medschool hospital), your case sounds acute and some things arent fitting. They are usually the best of the best there (if you were in cali, id suggest UCSF). Copy the post you just wrote above and use that for teaching hospitals, try emailing it to a Doc at UCSF or something.....thats if you cant get into a teaching hospital up there (its a long shot becasue Docs dont do internet medicine, but they might have an idea and could suggest something, worth a shot).
 
bigrand said:
Just a FYI,
Augmentin IS amoxycillin, but with clavulenic acid added. Amox is a beta-lactam class anti-biotic and numerous bacteria are resistant to this class of anti-b becasue they can produce an enzyme called beta-lactamase which breaks the beta-lactam ring making the drug ineffective. Clavulenic acid binds to the enzyme so that the anti-b can work without being degraded. That is why you have this combo of clav and amox (called Clavamox in vet meds).

Im pretty sure the guy you talked to had a C+S of the prostate fluid and found an organism with resistance to beta-lactams and was given the combo. This could be your problem. C+S the prostate fluid. Look up Septra or Bactrim...they are the anti-bs with the ability to better enter the prostate. Clinically, 4-6 weeks use of those generally have a better cure rate than others becasue the others (Cipro) dont get in the prostate as well and the disease has a high reoccurance rate.

See where that goes. If you are still neg for bacteria, i would suggest going to a teaching hospital (medschool hospital), your case sounds acute and some things arent fitting. They are usually the best of the best there (if you were in cali, id suggest UCSF). Copy the post you just wrote above and use that for teaching hospitals, try emailing it to a Doc at UCSF or something.....thats if you cant get into a teaching hospital up there (its a long shot becasue Docs dont do internet medicine, but they might have an idea and could suggest something, worth a shot).
Click to expand...

very good info. not sure bout those teaching hospitals though. atleast dont go there say about julyish when all the ms4's are now interns lol im kidding ofcourse
 
Hey bigrand,

THANK YOU!

I have found a "university hospital" which I guess is the equivalent of what you mentionned. I live in Quebec, Canada so things are a bit different.

Judging by the website it looks quite reputable: http://www.chumontreal.qc.ca/

I'll make sure to call them first thing tomorrow.
 
Ill look some stuff up for ya in the next day or two, in the meanwhile, look into these places....teaching hospitals are generally more advanced thant standard care docs and specialists.

Get those WBCs checked, no signs of fever im guessing?
Celebrex isnt a good pain med for this. Its a rheumatologic NASID, selective COX-2 inhibitor primarily used for auto-immune rheumatoid arthritis....its a little harsh for you in my opinion.

Your condition is sounding more and more structural as opposed to bacterial considering it was acute in onset and your initial UA was negative for bacteria.

I actually have a meeting at UCSF on Thurs morning, i will see if i cant get any info out of someone.
 
bigrand said:
Ill look some stuff up for ya in the next day or two, in the meanwhile, look into these places....teaching hospitals are generally more advanced thant standard care docs and specialists.

Get those WBCs checked, no signs of fever im guessing?
Celebrex isnt a good pain med for this. Its a rheumatologic NASID, selective COX-2 inhibitor primarily used for auto-immune rheumatoid arthritis....its a little harsh for you in my opinion.

Your condition is sounding more and more structural as opposed to bacterial considering it was acute in onset and your initial UA was negative for bacteria.

I actually have a meeting at UCSF on Thurs morning, i will see if i cant get any info out of someone.
Click to expand...

bigrand,

I literally cannot thank you enough for your time and help.

Let me know if you get any info. I'll be doing everything I can on my part that's for damn sure!

PS:

No fever... I havn't "felt" out of the ordinary other than having low libido but it doesn't stem from anything psychological. WBC was normal IIRC.

Here what was "out of the norm" on the blood tests, urine tests and 24h urine test:

MICROALBUMINE (24 HRS)
RESULT: 39
REFERENCE VALUE (UNDER 30) UNITS: mg/24h

--

MICROALBUMIN. RESULT: 10,2
REFERENCE VALUE (*) UNITS: mg/L

--

MICROALBUMIN (NORMALISED) RESULT: 2,2

REFERENCE VALUE: (0,0-2,0)

--

06/08/09
BLOOD ANALYSIS:

SERUM CREATININE: RESULT: 111

REFERENCE VALUE: (54-109) UNITS: umol/L

--

URIC ACID: RESULT: 460

REFERENCE VALUE: (153-459) UNITS: umol/L

--

ALBUMIN: RESULT: 53

REFERENCE VALUE: (35-52) UNITS: G/L


pps: I wasn't on creatine or even a high protein diet when these tests were done. I was off of diet and training completely.


-Y.
 
Not too long, depending on organism and tissue found (prostate tissue is harder to penetrate than many other tissues, and tuberculosis for example takes several months of antibiotics to treat).

Sorry JP, nothing new over here, didnt stay after my UCSF meeting, been fighting the cold......
Sulfamethoxazole or trimethoprim.... ask for those for prostate.
 
JimmyPineapple said:
Wow. This is the most knowledgeable post I've received so far from inquiring incessantly all over the net for moooonths..

What is a C+S test? I'll need to approach a new doc logically and what you've described is great but I'll need it in layman's terms.

What would you suggest I do thought? And THANK YOU for the help bro..
Click to expand...
ive got to agree, some damn cool knowledgable bros on here!!!
 
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