Only Clomid

[Nelson Montana]

Who here has tried Clomid in between cycles? I have. And even though I wasn't supressed, it still gave me the same horrible side effects.

One would think if this stuff was so great at boosting testosterone that people should be taking it all the time. Any thoughts?

 

[test-monkey]

I always used clomid, besides my first time because I wasn't educated and used no pct, anyway the only time I didn't use clomid I had the worst crash ever, and it was a mild cycle. It could be the lack of clomid or it was the first time I used HCG and maybe that is what fucked me up.
personaly I use clomid at a very low dose of only 50mg a day for the maximum of 2 weeks. then continue with noval.
I have used clomid once alone between a cycle and the side affect wasn't bad.

I think the problem with clomid is that people use to much the whole 300mg frontload, and then 100mg a day for 4 weeks just seems way to much and long. people should try using less even 25mg a day. that is why I rather use novaldex withl clomid then follow with only noval. also I use a low dose of noval ussaly 20mg then 10mg a day. but that just me.

 

[Trickie]

I've used clomid before and had no side effects at all. The only time it didn't work was because my immune system was shot due to overworking and late nights and burning the candle at both ends, + Deca and abuse of ephredrine.
People say that get all weepy on it but surely they would be feeling like that anyway for a couple of weeks off gear?
I know it doesn't work for you Nelson but it has for 1000's of bodybuilders for years, I see posts confirming this, although it isn't for everyone. I think for a proper recovery its best to take clomid AND HCG together, I don't think using one on their own is enough to recover from 8-12 week cycles.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Tosay Clomid has worked for thousands of bdybuilders for years is not at all accurate.

That's like saying; for thousands of years people thought the earth was flat, so there must be something to it.

 

[Big Rick Rock]

I like Clomid... makes me cum like a Porn star and increases my libido.

I think it is one of those case by case things. Some people benefit from it some don't.

 

[Anakin]

It works for me.

 

[manny78]

It worked for me but the sides were nasty. I had a strawberry field on my back for a month.

 

[biogeared]

works like a charm, sides aren't fun though.

its a love hate relationship.... massive money shots, but pizza back.... lol

i don't get moodiness, or vision tracers like some though.

 

[Tryn2]

I am running a second cyle of test enanth 400mg a week for 12 weeks. I know the traditional clomid pct but with this discussion do you think I should make any adjustments Nelson. Also I dont mind if you tell me to add stuff even if it is UNLEASHED. Thanks guys/gals

 

[doublebicep]

I have only used it for PCT. I think that some take it in too large of doses. 100mg for 3 days and then 50mg for another 18 days along with 20mg of nolvadex ed works well. I think people who have not tried herbal's along with standard PCT are missing out.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I am running a second cyle of test enanth 400mg a week for 12 weeks. I know the traditional clomid pct but with this discussion do you think I should make any adjustments Nelson. Also I dont mind if you tell me to add stuff even if it is UNLEASHED. Thanks guys/gals

I much prefer a little a-dex starting the second week of the cycle onto a week or two after the last shot, at which point I'd start the Unleashed and Post- Cycle.


Anakin: I believe your faith in Clomid may be misguided. If I recall, you did HCG at the same time. I'm willing to bet it was the HCG that did the trick. But you never know. My latest unscientific concencous seems to suggest it works for about 25% of the people who take it. About 50% take it because they feel they must, but it doesn't really do anything for them. And about anohter 25% feel so shitty on it they'd rather eat glass. Someday we'll know why this is.

 

[Anakin]

Maybe it was the hcg, but how for how long does hcg have an effect? I don't remember the exact details right now, but I think I got the blood test one month after hcg use stopped (I used a total of 4500iu spread over 9 days).
And, even though it is "unscientific", I could swear that I noticed a different feeling while on clomid: I felt better overall and my nuts were fuller/heavier. For some reason, hcg seemed to make my nuts full but the effect wasn't very long lasting. For example, I had 750iu on day 1, 750iu on day 2, and none on day 3, repeated twice. On every third day, when I didn't get the shot, nuts weren't as full. On the other hand, clomid gave me a very permanent 24/7 effect.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Maybe it was the hcg, but how for how long does hcg have an effect? I don't remember the exact details right now, but I think I got the blood test one month after hcg use stopped (I used a total of 4500iu spread over 9 days).
And, even though it is "unscientific", I could swear that I noticed a different feeling while on clomid: I felt better overall and my nuts were fuller/heavier. For some reason, hcg seemed to make my nuts full but the effect wasn't very long lasting. For example, I had 750iu on day 1, 750iu on day 2, and none on day 3, repeated twice. On every third day, when I didn't get the shot, nuts weren't as full. On the other hand, clomid gave me a very permanent 24/7 effect.

That's very odd. Once the testes are full, they're full. They can't athopy in a matter of a day. Of course, "fullness" varies day to day, hour to hour. Stress, sleep, stimulation, body temp, all effect the "hang". I think it's impossible to make a judgement on one compound when using two at the same time. Also, how can you say the Clomid kept them full when you also say that every third day they weren't as full? Unless of course you used the Clomid afterward, in which case you were already more recovered. See what I mean? There are lots of variables and a conclusion can't be based on the moment.

 

[Anakin]

Yes, I started using clomid about 2-3 days after hcg ended.
What is definitely true is that a definitive answer can't be reached from this kind of anecdotal experience.

 

[Big Bad Buff]

Who here has tried Clomid in between cycles? I have. And even though I wasn't supressed, it still gave me the same horrible side effects.

One would think if this stuff was so great at boosting testosterone that people should be taking it all the time. Any thoughts?

Gee, that's a logical assumption. lol. Clomid works for restoring hpta. Period. It's a proven scientific fact so deal with it. What is definitely NOT a proven fact however is that your PCT herbal concoction does anything at all to speed up the recovery process. Using clomid to boost natural testosterone levels over baseline is asinine. Once your body returns to homeostasis the idea is to keep it in that state without creating any further hormonal imbalances. The purpose of clomid is to help you recover quicker and to increase sperm production in the testis (it is used in a medical sense as a fertility drug). It also has been shown to reverse the effects of atrophy.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Clomid is used as a fertility drug for women.

Fonz proves that he can be an idiot under many different names.

 

[Big Bad Buff]

Clomid is used as a fertility drug for women.

Fonz proves that he can be an idiot under many different names.

You are such a moron. Both men and women can use clomid as a fertility drug.

http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/preconception/fertilityproblems/4090.html

The drugs and how they work

"Just as women need the right balance of hormones to ovulate regularly, men need certain hormones to produce healthy sperm. Surprisingly, the same substances control these reproductive functions in both men and women — so the same fertility drugs that stimulate ovulation stimulate sperm production.

The two most popular fertility drugs for women, clomiphene and human menopausal gonadotropin (hMG) used with human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG), are also used to treat men with primary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism — a hormone deficiency in the pituitary gland or hypothalamus that prevents the testicles from receiving the signal to make sperm."

With each one of your posts you look more and more like an incompetent! Please tell us more about clomid since you seemed to be so well-informed. LOL!

 

[Nelson Montana]

You are such a moron. Both men and women can use clomid as a fertility drug.

http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/preconception/fertilityproblems/4090.html

The drugs and how they work

"Just as women need the right balance of hormones to ovulate regularly, men need certain hormones to produce healthy sperm. Surprisingly, the same substances control these reproductive functions in both men and women — so the same fertility drugs that stimulate ovulation stimulate sperm production.

The two most popular fertility drugs for women, clomiphene and human menopausal gonadotropin (hMG) used with human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG), are also used to treat men with primary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism — a hormone deficiency in the pituitary gland or hypothalamus that prevents the testicles from receiving the signal to make sperm."

Wiht each one of your posts you look more and more like an incompetent!

This is so typical of you Fonz. All your information comes from fly by night websites and supplement promos.

Clomid is traditional used as a fertility drug for women and a mans fertility (sperm count) is not a factor in restoring HPTA in an effort to maintain muscle mass after a cycle.


I can't believe even a loser like you has nothing better to do on a Saturday night than to take on multiple handles and go on every thread on this board and just try to stir up shit. You must truly be the biggest jerkoff who ever posted on the internet.

If I'm so stupid and all the people who post are morons and you are so intellectually superior, what are you doing here? Go to a MENSA meeting. Play chess with your mother. Clean your room. Do SOMETHING worthwhile. Just stop embarassing yourself with these infantile tirades.

 

[Big Bad Buff]

This is so typical of you Fonz. All your information comes from fly by night websites and supplement promos.

Clomid is traditional used as a fertility drug for women and a mans fertility (sperm count) is not a factor in restoring HPTA in an effort to maintain muscle mass after a cycle.

Fly by night web sites?? LOL. You are a pathetic human being you know that? Ok, I figured you would go there even though the link was to a fertility web site that is licensed to sell clomid as a fertility drug FOR MEN and the content of the information is approved by the BabyCenter Medical Advisory Board! Perhaps this one is more credible for you? LOL. Please quit while you're behind and admit you've been owned once again.

Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD000151. Related Articles, Links


Clomiphene or tamoxifen for idiopathic oligo/asthenospermia.

Vandekerckhove P, Lilford R, Vail A, Hughes E.

Institute of Epidemiology, University of Leeds, 34 Hyde Terrace, Leeds, Yorkshire, UK, LS2 9LN. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Oligo-astheno-teratospermia (sperm of low concentration, reduced motility and increased abnormal morphology) of unknown cause is common and the need for treatment is felt by patients and doctors alike. As a result, a variety of empirical, non-specific treatments have been used in an attempt to improve semen characteristics and fertility. The administration of anti-oestrogens is a common treatment because anti oestrogens interfere with the normal negative feedback of sex steroids at hypothalamic and pituitary levels in order to increase endogenous gonadotropin-releasing hormone secretion from the hypothalamus and FSH and LH secretion directly from the pituitary. In turn, FSH and LH stimulate Leydig cells in the testes, and this has been claimed to lead to increased local testosterone production, thereby boosting spermatogenesis with a possible improvement in fertility. There may also be a direct effect of anti-oestrogens on testicular spermatogenesis or steroidogenesis. This review considers the available evidence of the effect of both Clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen, both of which have a predominant anti-oestrogenic effect, for idiopathic oligo and/or asthenospermia. OBJECTIVES: The objective was to assess the effects of treating subfertile men with anti-oestrogens (clomiphene or tamoxifen) on pregnancy rates among couples where subfertility has been attributed to idiopathic oligo- and/or asthenospermia. SEARCH STRATEGY: The Cochrane Subfertility Review Group specialised register of controlled trials was searched". SELECTION CRITERIA: Randomised trials of anti-oestrogen therapy for 3 months or more compared to placebo or no placebo for subfertile males among couples where subfertility is attributed to male factor. DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Data were extracted independently by two reviewers. Any differences were resolved with a third reviewer. MAIN RESULTS: Ten studies involving 738 men were included. Five of the trials did not specify method of randomisation. Anti-oestrogens had a positive effect on endocrinal outcomes, such as serum testosterone levels. In trials with secure randomisation there was no difference in the pregnancy rate between the anti-oestrogen groups and the control groups (odds ratio 1.26, 95% confidence interval 0.99 to 1.56). The overall pregnancy rate for these five trials was 15.4% compared to the spontaneous rate of 12.5% in the control groups. These odds increased to 1.56 (95% confidence interval 0.99 to 2.19) when all 10 trials were included, but this result is likely to be artificially inflated. REVIEWER'S CONCLUSIONS: Anti-oestrogens appear to have a beneficial effect on endocrinal outcomes, but there is not enough evidence to evaluate the use of anti-oestrogens for increasing the fertility of males with idiopathic oligo-asthenospermia.

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Academic

PMID: 10796497 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Nelson Montana]

God, you are such a RETARD! DID YOU READ YOUR OWN POST?! It states that it was concluded that the Clomid treatment showed no improvement in the fertility of men you fucking idiot.

You are such a joke Fonz, it's beyond pathetic. You offer nothing -- no insight,no education, nothing creative or orininal. You just use cut and paste studies you find on the internet AND YOU DON'T EVEN READ THEM! You assume because they have lots of big words that no one will understand it and just agree with you. You are such a cliche' --the typical know nothing kid with no life whose entire world is his computer.

I asked you nicely to leave. Now I'm telling you: shut the fuck up. You've embarassed yourself enough. You've wasted everyone's time. Accept the fact that everyone knows what a fool you are and find another message board you can piss on.

 

[Big Bad Buff]

God, you are such a RETARD! DID YOU READ YOUR OWN POST?! It states that it was concluded that the Clomid treatment showed no improvement in the fertility of men you fucking idiot.

You are such a joke Fonz, it's beyond pathetic. You offer nothing -- no insight,no education, nothing creative or orininal. You just use cut and paste studies you find on the internet AND YOU DON'T EVEN READ THEM! You assume because they have lots of big words that no one will understand it and just agree with you. You are such a cliche' --the typical know nothing kid with no life whose entire world is his computer.

I asked you nicely to leave. Now I'm telling you: shut the fuck up. You've embarassed yourself enough. You've wasted everyone's time. Accept the fact that everyone knows what a fool you are and find another message board you can piss on.

You ignorant fucktard! The purpose of posting that study WAS TO SHOW YOUR DUMBASS THAT CLOMID HAS BEEN EVALUATED IN A CONTROLLED STUDY AS A FUCKING FERTILITY DRUG FOR MEN!!!!!! At the conclusion of that study (over 4 fucking years ago) more research was needed to evaluate the effectiveness of clomid as a fertility drug for men. Since then clomid has been accepted by the medical community for this use in men AND IS PRESCRIBED FOR THAT PURPOSE YOU ASSCLOWN!. The study although inconclusive at the time was to illustrate a fucking point moron. God you are thick Nelson. Just admit that you once again don't know jackshit about you're saying.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I'm sorry. I made the mistake of trying to conduct a coversation with a full fledged asshole. I won't make that mistake again.

 

[Big Bad Buff]

I'm sorry. I made the mistake of trying to conduct a coversation with a full fledged asshole. I won't make that mistake again.

If you call the dissemination of misinformation "conducting a conversation" then so be it. I found the conversation intellectually insulting just like your book.

 

[Big Bad Buff]

I'm sorry. I made the mistake of trying to conduct a coversation with a full fledged asshole. I won't make that mistake again.

What cop out! I guess you are "owned" again and again Nelson. No further comments on clomid being used as a fertility drug for men?? Is the proverbial foot in the mouth again??

 

[Nelson Montana]

Re-read post #22

 

[Big Bad Buff]

Re-read post #22

Figures. What a coward! If you make a statement or a false one in this case you don't even have the balls to admit you were wrong.

 

[doublebicep]

Yet another good thread gets bogged down into a flame war.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Yet another good thread gets bogged down into a flame war.

NO war -- more like a one sided terrorist attack. That's why he'll be gone. On this board, arguments are welcome. But senseless insults will not be tolerated.

 

[Bonkme2]

When it comes to maintaining muscle mass (or building for that matter) isn't it FREE testosterone that a guy should be worried about?

If two guys get blood work done and there test/free test ratios are 800/50 and 300/50, is either guy really better off than the other?

What I'm getting at is if Clomid *can* help your test levels come back to a normal range, what good does it do if the test is all bound to SHBG? Shouldn't we be more worried about having as much FREE test available at the end of a cycle to help maintain the mass just gained?

 

[Bonkme2]

OK...can I bump this without all you knuckleheads continuing this flame war? I kinda really wanted to know some opinions on my last question.

 

[Nelson Montana]

OK...can I bump this without all you knuckleheads continuing this flame war? I kinda really wanted to know some opinions on my last question.

Okay , but only if you promise to change your avatar. : )


Of course, it's all about free T . That's one of the most overlooked issues in bodybuilding. There's an article on it called "Why You're Not Growing" (based on a post on EF as a matter of fact) on the PF site.

 

[evolutionoftherevolution]

Okay , but only if you promise to change your avatar. : )


Of course, it's all about free T . That's one of the most overlooked issues in bodybuilding. There's an article on it called "Why You're Not Growing" (based on a post on EF as a matter of fact) on the PF site.

This was turning out to be an interesting thread before. I'm curious to see what people's results/experiences are with Clomid ALONE...seems like those that got the best bang for the buck combined it with HCG.

Nevertheless, Clomid is interesting (both good and the bad).

Also, based on the PF article, it stands to reason that free T is important with endogenous testosterone as well as exogenous.