One of my fighters told to cycle!

[Ezekiel]

This is probably not the right spot for this, but I thought you all might find it interesting all the same.

As some of you know I am the Jiu-jitsu instructor at an MMA Club in BC Canada.

We (fighter and club) were told that said fighter while having a great record 9-2 wasn't a crowd pleaser because he lacked 'knock out" power and isn't all "buff" that it would be in his best interest to A: get a tan B: Take a "Cycle or two" before they would put him on the card again.

We are talking about a fairly large promoter here in Canada. Our fight has been on his cards 5 times in the past and won everytime! By points mind you.

This fellow is super technical both on the ground and standing. Not terrible strong looking.

Just goes to show what's actually going on behind the scenes.

I have had ppl imply that some guys should cycle, but never had someone come right out and say it.

 

[sweed]

I can see having a 'look' might draw more an audience. But the fights I see I tend to think the 'bigger' guy will win, but I want the smaller less threatening guy to win. Getting this guy bigger might effect his technical fighting style and slow him down. If he's a ground guy and not a boxer, why try to make him into a boxer. make the training where he excels most is what he should train most, while training the other styles less so he can keep his style perfected and also bring up his weaknesses a little. I am sure that's what you do now tho.
AS won't make him a better fighter. what is your opinion??

 

[SpyWizard]

This is probably not the right spot for this, but I thought you all might find it interesting all the same.

As some of you know I am the Jiu-jitsu instructor at an MMA Club in BC Canada.

We (fighter and club) were told that said fighter while having a great record 9-2 wasn't a crowd pleaser because he lacked 'knock out" power and isn't all "buff" that it would be in his best interest to A: get a tan B: Take a "Cycle or two" before they would put him on the card again.

We are talking about a fairly large promoter here in Canada. Our fight has been on his cards 5 times in the past and won everytime! By points mind you.

This fellow is super technical both on the ground and standing. Not terrible strong looking.

Just goes to show what's actually going on behind the scenes.

I have had ppl imply that some guys should cycle, but never had someone come right out and say it.

well, sounds to me like he was doing you a favor by telling you outright..

Imagine what happens in other events... give the people what they want, not what's "best".. as purist we can and do aspire to do everything naturally.. but to get paid?? that's another horse..

He did you a favor by telling you, otherwise he could just let you spin your wheels...

 

[Big_BK]

This is probably not the right spot for this, but I thought you all might find it interesting all the same.

As some of you know I am the Jiu-jitsu instructor at an MMA Club in BC Canada.

We (fighter and club) were told that said fighter while having a great record 9-2 wasn't a crowd pleaser because he lacked 'knock out" power and isn't all "buff" that it would be in his best interest to A: get a tan B: Take a "Cycle or two" before they would put him on the card again.

We are talking about a fairly large promoter here in Canada. Our fight has been on his cards 5 times in the past and won everytime! By points mind you.

This fellow is super technical both on the ground and standing. Not terrible strong looking.

Just goes to show what's actually going on behind the scenes.

I have had ppl imply that some guys should cycle, but never had someone come right out and say it.

Coming from a fans perspective (which would be mine since i lack any knowledge about mma in depth) i completely agree. The general public doesn't give a shit how technical someone is, they wanna see people get the shit knocked out of each other not some guy wrestling around on the ground for 20mins. Now i know all you fight fans are gonna jump down my throat saying how hard that stuff is, i don't know what im talking about, etc. BUT this is what everday normal people like myself, that are not "into" the fighting scene want to see. Actually fighters and the cult followers make up a small percentage of their viewers.

 

[No1Cagefighter]

Hi Guys, just to add my 2 cents. I am an mma fighter with a seriously high grappling background. I have trainied stand up fighting (boxing, thai boxing) for many years and I have done a fair few different aas cycles. But I can assure everyone that it does not make you punch or kick any harder! bit hitters are what they are because they have great technique simple as that. AAS cycles are great for achieving cerain goals but hard hitting is not one of them, just my bit.

Cagefighter

 

[Ezekiel]

well, sounds to me like he was doing you a favor by telling you outright..

Imagine what happens in other events... give the people what they want, not what's "best".. as purist we can and do aspire to do everything naturally.. but to get paid?? that's another horse..

He did you a favor by telling you, otherwise he could just let you spin your wheels...

Oh i get it and all... I prefer the honesty personally. The fighter was a little dissalusioned (sp) I think, but he'll get over, or .....

it's just funny that people are all like "he's cheating" cause he caught taking "the Steroids" They should ban im for life!! BS...

Mean while it's these same ppl who want great big dudes fighting.

I have another guy who fights at 155lbs and benches well over 400lbs and walks around at 175lbs is 5'6" and is inhanced, but that's the way society wants it..

Clearly I have no problem w/ gear, but I do have a problem w/ the double standard.

Not too mention that I will never (because of legalities) tell a fighter to take or not take gear.

 

[Big Rick Rock]

A fighter derives more power from technique than from juice. A good fighter gets KOs from well placed strikes and not from sheer power...
If your guy consistently is hitting different opponents clean on the jaw and not generating a KO or at least buckling their knees, then he might need to consider getting a different boxing coach, dropping a weight class or at least starting a good weight training program. A clean hit to the jaw will bring down even a mammoth, or at least make his legs wobble and eyes dance for a few secs.

As far as the "look" of your fighter... Some of the best fighters in the world will never win a physique contest. This should be a none issue in MMA...

As far as your guy being an exciting fighter or not... This is all on your guy's training and what he focuses on when he is in the ring. If he comes in expecting to win a split decision, he might put the crowd to sleep. if he goes in there looking to finish the guy at the first chance he gets, and turns the outcome into a unanimous decision, then I might enjoy the ride... His mindset will set the pace for his style and thus make the fight... I never seen your guys fight, but if you send me a couple of links I would love to give you my opinion on his game from a fan's point of view...


PS: Your guy should NOT cheat and use juice. He should stick to training hard and sharpening his technique. using juice to win at sports is the #1 reason that Roids are now illegal for the rest of guys who are NOT looking to compete.

 

[Ezekiel]

A fighter derives more power from technique than from juice. A good fighter gets KOs from well placed strikes and not from sheer power...
If your guy consistently is hitting different opponents clean on the jaw and not generating a KO or at least buckling their knees, then he might need to consider getting a different boxing coach, dropping a weight class or at least starting a good weight training program. A clean hit to the jaw will bring down even a mammoth, or at least make his legs wobble and eyes dance for a few secs.

As far as the "look" of your fighter... Some of the best fighters in the world will never win a physique contest. This should be a none issue in MMA...

As far as your guy being an exciting fighter or not... This is all on your guy's training and what he focuses on when he is in the ring. If he comes in expecting to win a split decision, he might put the crowd to sleep. if he goes in there looking to finish the guy at the first chance he gets, and turns the outcome into a unanimous decision, then I might enjoy the ride... His mindset will set the pace for his style and thus make the fight... I never seen your guys fight, but if you send me a couple of links I would love to give you my opinion on his game from a fan's point of view...


PS: Your guy should NOT cheat and use juice. He should stick to training hard and sharpening his technique. using juice to win at sports is the #1 reason that Roids are now illegal for the rest of guys who are NOT looking to compete.

Ok for what it's worth, I am 40 and started wrestling when I was 6, 1st black Belt in Judo @ 17, Black Belt in Japanese Jiu-Jitsu @ 26. Competed Nationally in Judo and wrestled in University @ SFU here in Canada and Currantly have a Brown Belt in BJJ.

Our club currantly has North American Muay Thai Belt holders of which the fellow in question is one of them.

His boxing technique is not the issue here. Contrary to popular opinion "knock out" power has more to do w/ genetics and kenetic energy then technique. while tech. does play a role it is actually a small one.

i'll use the UFC as an example: 80% of the fighters in there including Jardine, Tito, Coutour, Wand, lidell do not have great boxing skils. Although it could be argued that Chuck has great movment, especially laterally, but his hands are not great. That being said: These guys all have knock out power.

My point in posting wasn't to ever suggest that by taking gear you'll get knock Out power.. I just wanted to show that it is very ingrained in every sport there is. And the unedjucated lawmakers need to get w/ the program. Having good skills ins't good enough anymore.

The fellow in question always wins by unanimous decision. His like lennox lious (sp) awsome tech. Just not going to knock anyone out.

I could post links of this fighter, but I had better ask him 1st if he minds me outing him like this

 

[burnthiscorpse]

Its just like pitchers and QB's. Same thing. Some guys throw 98mph some guys cant. Some QB's throw 70 yards like its nothing. Size has nothing to do with it realatively speaking. Sure there are technical things they can learn to help them improve some on what they allready have a natural ability to do well. But AAS wont help anything along those lines.

 

[Mass Insanity]

Personally I think image is important... if a guys a good fighter then people will want to come see him.. if he's in shape and looks bad ass thats a plus.. people like to see knock outs...

 

[sweed]

chuck liddell.. not the best physique ever, but I would not want to be in the ring with him for sure! lol
Kinda looks like John C. Riley! lol...

 

[Ezekiel]

Its just like pitchers and QB's. Same thing. Some guys throw 98mph some guys cant. Some QB's throw 70 yards like its nothing. Size has nothing to do with it realatively speaking. Sure there are technical things they can learn to help them improve some on what they allready have a natural ability to do well. But AAS wont help anything along those lines.

Good Analogy!!

Personally I think image is important... if a guys a good fighter then people will want to come see him.. if he's in shape and looks bad ass thats a plus.. people like to see knock outs...

In regards to marketing, I would say this is very true!!

Personally, ASS isn't going to help this kid in anyway..Just relaying what happened.

Blessings,

 

[GUESS]

A fighter derives more power from technique than from juice. A good fighter gets KOs from well placed strikes and not from sheer power...
If your guy consistently is hitting different opponents clean on the jaw and not generating a KO or at least buckling their knees, then he might need to consider getting a different boxing coach, dropping a weight class or at least starting a good weight training program. A clean hit to the jaw will bring down even a mammoth, or at least make his legs wobble and eyes dance for a few secs.

As far as the "look" of your fighter... Some of the best fighters in the world will never win a physique contest. This should be a none issue in MMA...

As far as your guy being an exciting fighter or not... This is all on your guy's training and what he focuses on when he is in the ring. If he comes in expecting to win a split decision, he might put the crowd to sleep. if he goes in there looking to finish the guy at the first chance he gets, and turns the outcome into a unanimous decision, then I might enjoy the ride... His mindset will set the pace for his style and thus make the fight... I never seen your guys fight, but if you send me a couple of links I would love to give you my opinion on his game from a fan's point of view...


PS: Your guy should NOT cheat and use juice. He should stick to training hard and sharpening his technique. using juice to win at sports is the #1 reason that Roids are now illegal for the rest of guys who are NOT looking to compete.

Couldn't have said it better!! And just for the record, I'd take a well rounded, solid pound for pound fighter who knows his shit and is full of technique than a fighter who goes in relying on his only strong point, a knock out punch.

That's why Penn couldn't keep up with St-Pierre!!

 

[Ezekiel]

PS: Your guy should NOT cheat and use juice. He should stick to training hard and sharpening his technique. using juice to win at sports is the #1 reason that Roids are now illegal for the rest of guys who are NOT looking to compete.

I wasn't suggesting that he should use gear.. That's not why I posted this. Nor would I tell any of the fighters to do so.

I am just relaying what was said to us. Also to prove a point. FANS dictate the use of gear more then any other reason. They like to say cheater, but they expect everyone to be huge and rock solid no matter what the sport!

And the reality is they will not sign this guy anymore even though he has a great record! Why! because fans don't like skinny ass white kids.. It's all about marketing, not skillz..

Cheers...

 

[o7vagabond7o]

I wasn't suggesting that he should use gear.. That's not why I posted this. Nor would I tell any of the fighters to do so.

I am just relaying what was said to us. Also to prove a point. FANS dictate the use of gear more then any other reason. They like to say cheater, but they expect everyone to be huge and rock solid no matter what the sport!

And the reality is they will not sign this guy anymore even though he has a great record! Why! because fans don't like skinny ass white kids.. It's all about marketing, not skillz..

Cheers...

I understand where you are coming from. With MMA going mainstream like on Spike TV and fighters like Lesner bringing in the WWE crowd, people want more flash and instant gratification. The casual fan gets more caught up in the drama and the show. They want to see either a Good Good Guy or a real Bad Bad Guy, which will put on a show and talk smack or knockout the one who talks smack. The promoters love this because of ticket sales and PPV sales, the ones who suffer are the guys in the gym and maybe the fans like me who just want to see a good fight.

A knockout artist is fun to watch but, I love watching fighters who give it everything they have and never quit. Win or lose it doesn't matter to me as long as they show they love to fight. Unfortunately I'm in the minority and what now is a good thing will come to an end eventually, just like boxing. All because of money, politics, and too many different organizations that won't put their best against the other's best.

JMO

 

[gunslinger2]

I would have to respectfully disagree with a lot of what has been said here.

I have been training with weights for close to 17 years and have been doing Jiu-jitsu and kickboxing for 8 years. I say this so you will know a little about my background.
The theme I have seen repeated over and over in each post seems to be that being bigger will not make you a better fighter, therefore taking steroids wont make you better. This is wrong for many reasons.
To start with, MMA training is not like bodybuilding. The aim is not to get bigger and leaner. The goal is to get better and stronger. Good technique only comes through repetition. The guy who throws 500
kicks per day will most of the time kick harder and better than the guy who does 50 per day. In other words the more you can train MMA without getting hurt, the better.
Now, that being said what do steroids do really well? They allow the body to heal much faster. This enables the guy taking them to train much harder and much more often than the guy not taking them. This makes all the difference in the world. A few years ago this new guy came in to train jiu-jitsu with us. He was very young and worked part time, lots of free time on his hands. Due to school and work I was only able to train 2-3 times a week for maybe 2 hours at a time. This guy on the other hand was there 4-5 times a week and doing private lessons. I was a blue belt at the time and I could run all over this kid.
To make a long story short, in about 6 months he was beating me about half the time, and in about one year I could only submit him maybe one in 10 times. Why? Because he was training about twice as much as me. The guy who can train most and hardest without burning out or getting hurt will be best all other factors being equal. Look at some of the past top guys, some like Tito said they were training 7 days a week, 10 hours a day. There is no way the human body can take that without help.
Another thing is leaning out for a fight. Ever notice how you will have two guys in the UFC about to fight and both are 5'9'' 170, yet one is small and flat, and looks like he feels like hammered shit, while the other guy is jumping around like a rubber ball and looks ripped to the bone. Steroids allow you to hold on to lean mass while shedding water and fat (with the proper stack) It can make a hell of a difference when you are 30-50% stronger than the guy you are fighting.

Most if not all of the top guys in MMA have taken steroids at some point and anyone who does not think so is kidding themselves. Do I think its cheating or wrong? No. You do what you have to do to stay up with the competition. The only thing I see wrong is the fact that only certain people get tested.

When its all said and done, steroids can make a big difference in MMA not just how you look.

 

[Ezekiel]

I would have to respectfully disagree with a lot of what has been said here.

I have been training with weights for close to 17 years and have been doing Jiu-jitsu and kickboxing for 8 years. I say this so you will know a little about my background.
The theme I have seen repeated over and over in each post seems to be that being bigger will not make you a better fighter, therefore taking steroids wont make you better. This is wrong for many reasons.
To start with, MMA training is not like bodybuilding. The aim is not to get bigger and leaner. The goal is to get better and stronger. Good technique only comes through repetition. The guy who throws 500
kicks per day will most of the time kick harder and better than the guy who does 50 per day. In other words the more you can train MMA without getting hurt, the better.
Now, that being said what do steroids do really well? They allow the body to heal much faster. This enables the guy taking them to train much harder and much more often than the guy not taking them. This makes all the difference in the world. A few years ago this new guy came in to train jiu-jitsu with us. He was very young and worked part time, lots of free time on his hands. Due to school and work I was only able to train 2-3 times a week for maybe 2 hours at a time. This guy on the other hand was there 4-5 times a week and doing private lessons. I was a blue belt at the time and I could run all over this kid.
To make a long story short, in about 6 months he was beating me about half the time, and in about one year I could only submit him maybe one in 10 times. Why? Because he was training about twice as much as me. The guy who can train most and hardest without burning out or getting hurt will be best all other factors being equal. Look at some of the past top guys, some like Tito said they were training 7 days a week, 10 hours a day. There is no way the human body can take that without help.
Another thing is leaning out for a fight. Ever notice how you will have two guys in the UFC about to fight and both are 5'9'' 170, yet one is small and flat, and looks like he feels like hammered shit, while the other guy is jumping around like a rubber ball and looks ripped to the bone. Steroids allow you to hold on to lean mass while shedding water and fat (with the proper stack) It can make a hell of a difference when you are 30-50% stronger than the guy you are fighting.

Most if not all of the top guys in MMA have taken steroids at some point and anyone who does not think so is kidding themselves. Do I think its cheating or wrong? No. You do what you have to do to stay up with the competition. The only thing I see wrong is the fact that only certain people get tested.

When its all said and done, steroids can make a big difference in MMA not just how you look.

No argument there!