Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply puritysourcelabs US-PHARMACIES
UGL OZ Raptor Labs UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAKUS-PHARMACIESRaptor Labs

Okay Everybody, Be HONEST!

Nelson Montana

Chairman of Board
Chairman Member
Who here has done 50mgs or more of an oral for 8 weeks or more and had a blood test afterward and everything came back normal?

I'd say a bad SGBT is more common than you might think. And even though people pop 50 mgs these days like it's candy, that is a VERY hefty strain on the liver. And don't think because it's "var" that it isn't liver toxic. It's still 17AA and that is a hard hit. Think of taking 10 shots of liquor a day non stop for 2 months straght. Do you think your live won't be affected?

Orals should never be used as the sole source of steroids if you're looking to make huge gains.

I also get so discouraged when I hear from people who run into problems and ask what they should take. HOW ABOUT LOWERING THE DOSAGES DUDE!?!

Nevertheless, certain precautions are necessary. This is more reason why you should use PCT. People often ask "what's better" -- POST CYCLE or Liv52? How about the new "Forged?" Fuck folks, take ALL of them! ANYTHING that will clean you out and help you regenerate new liver cells is paramount to your health. And none of this stuff is a cure. They all help. And when it comes to your liver, you can't be too careful cause you don't get too many chances to damage it.

Just because dosages have gone up doesn't mean the bodies ability to tolerate toxicity. 50mgs is the max. 8 weeks is the max. Any more is too much, plain and simple, like it or not. And if you don't believe me, get your blood tested. You may not like what you see.
 
6 weeks at 150 mgs of abombs. Liver fuction and lipid profile was fine. BP was through the roof so as far as I am concerned, NEVER AGAIN.
 
Who here has done 50mgs or more of an oral for 8 weeks or more and had a blood test afterward and everything came back normal?

I'd say a bad SGBT is more common than you might think. And even though people pop 50 mgs these days like it's candy, that is a VERY hefty strain on the liver. And don't think because it's "var" that it isn't liver toxic. It's still 17AA and that is a hard hit. Think of taking 10 shots of liquor a day non stop for 2 months straght. Do you think your live won't be affected?

Orals should never be used as the sole source of steroids if you're looking to make huge gains.

I also get so discouraged when I hear from people who run into problems and ask what they should take. HOW ABOUT LOWERING THE DOSAGES DUDE!?!

Nevertheless, certain precautions are necessary. This is more reason why you should use PCT. People often ask "what's better" -- POST CYCLE or Liv52? How about the new "Forged?" Fuck folks, take ALL of them! ANYTHING that will clean you out and help you regenerate new liver cells is paramount to your health. And none of this stuff is a cure. They all help. And when it comes to your liver, you can't be too careful cause you don't get too many chances to damage it.

Just because dosages have gone up doesn't mean the bodies ability to tolerate toxicity. 50mgs is the max. 8 weeks is the max. Any more is too much, plain and simple, like it or not. And if you don't believe me, get your blood tested. You may not like what you see.


that's the key isn't it..
 
Sorry about the newb question,but what is SGBT?

Good read btw:supercool

This test measures the amount of an enzyme called glutamate pyruvate transaminase (GPT) in your blood. This enzyme is found in many body tissues in small amounts, but it is very concentrated in the liver. It is released into the blood when cells that contain it are damaged. This enzyme is also called alanine transaminase, or ALT.
 
im getting mine done after this run im on.. 70mgs wk var for 8 weeks. ill let you guys know
 
80mg of var and 50mg of winny for 8 weeks, then dropped var to 60mg and increased winny to 75mg for 4 weeks. blood pressure was 148, normal is 120, so my blood pressure was a little high. stopped both soon after. will never do more then oral at the same time.
 
Who here has done 50mgs or more of an oral for 8 weeks or more and had a blood test afterward and everything came back normal?

I'd say a bad SGBT is more common than you might think. And even though people pop 50 mgs these days like it's candy, that is a VERY hefty strain on the liver. And don't think because it's "var" that it isn't liver toxic. It's still 17AA and that is a hard hit. Think of taking 10 shots of liquor a day non stop for 2 months straght. Do you think your live won't be affected?

Orals should never be used as the sole source of steroids if you're looking to make huge gains.

I also get so discouraged when I hear from people who run into problems and ask what they should take. HOW ABOUT LOWERING THE DOSAGES DUDE!?!

Nevertheless, certain precautions are necessary. This is more reason why you should use PCT. People often ask "what's better" -- POST CYCLE or Liv52? How about the new "Forged?" Fuck folks, take ALL of them! ANYTHING that will clean you out and help you regenerate new liver cells is paramount to your health. And none of this stuff is a cure. They all help. And when it comes to your liver, you can't be too careful cause you don't get too many chances to damage it.

Just because dosages have gone up doesn't mean the bodies ability to tolerate toxicity. 50mgs is the max. 8 weeks is the max. Any more is too much, plain and simple, like it or not. And if you don't believe me, get your blood tested. You may not like what you see.

I think you are wring bro. I think oral cycles are underrated.


I think its funny as shit you yourself in one thread talk about people should do short 3-6-8 week cycles then in this thread atrack oral cycles ??? Why.

What is better about a short 3-8 week inject cycle then a 3-6 weel oral ccyle my friend. Please explain that to me. Why do you tell people short cycles are better in your books and in threads but then say orals (best for short cycles ) are not good.

For what reason? Do orals not give the results injects do in 3-8 weeks? Ha I think they give 10 times the results inject do in that time frame.

And going by your own past advice short cycles are better then long ones. SOOOOOO whats the problem???
 
I think you are wring bro. I think oral cycles are underrated.


I think its funny as shit you yourself in one thread talk about people should do short 3-6-8 week cycles then in this thread atrack oral cycles ??? Why.

What is better about a short 3-8 week inject cycle then a 3-6 weel oral ccyle my friend. Please explain that to me. Why do you tell people short cycles are better in your books and in threads but then say orals (best for short cycles ) are not good.

For what reason? Do orals not give the results injects do in 3-8 weeks? Ha I think they give 10 times the results inject do in that time frame.

And going by your own past advice short cycles are better then long ones. SOOOOOO whats the problem???


I'm not saying orals aren't good. In fact, mg per mg, they're generally more powerful than injects. My point is that using high dosages for a long amount of time has its consequences. Or certainly can. There's no denying that.

As for short cycles, I do think there's a place for them. They're preferable for people who want to make steady gains to supplement natural training and still have an operable HPTA. That doesn't include 80 mgs of an oral for 2-3 months which most likely cause liver damage. So the bottom line is, be careful. Don;t push it. And part of that care is taking proper PCT.
 
Excellent post Nelson. Sure bad test are very common. I had my enzymes come back before not too good and ran high doses. Upwards of 100mg/ed or more then everything went fine.
I'm just glad I didn't have this internal bleeding in my gastric area and this hypertension then though. WHEW!!!
 
80mg of var and 50mg of winny for 8 weeks, then dropped var to 60mg and increased winny to 75mg for 4 weeks. blood pressure was 148, normal is 120, so my blood pressure was a little high. stopped both soon after. will never do more then oral at the same time.

No god damn shit. Many people have great all oral cycles of all kinds. Its a damn pile of crap to say you can't. Also a pile of crap to say sides are soooo much more then with other cycles.

Ya there is the safe cycles out there both oral and inject and there is also the less safe cycles with both orals and injects. All depends on the compounds you use, support sups, length of the cycle, you as a person and more.

Saying you can not get great gains from a 8 week oral cycle but can from a 8 week inject cycle ( like it looks like nelson is saying) is a line of bull shit.

So a hormone in oral form over a 8 week time freom can not give the same results as it can in inject form? HA HA wtf ever.

so A hormone's gains can be kept after a 8 week cycle because is was injected but that same hormones gains can not be kept after a 8 week cycle because it was taken oral? Again lmao ha ha fucking ha. The logic is not there. Its just nor fucking there and anyone trying to say it is is fucked in the head.


I do not see how some one can advacate the use of a short inject cycle and say gains are more easy to keep and shot down is less and blah blah blah but then turn around and knock a shor aas oral cycle.

With what god damn science do they have to back that argument. What oral hormones are act differently in the body then they do when injected? please.


THe active hormone acts on the receptor the same damn way as soon as it passes. And that is the plan hard facts.

SO the only argument left is the sides really. That is it. The sides to the liver is the only point left to argue about.

WIth good support sups and proper cycles its not a problem for most people. Plan and damn simple.
 
No god damn shit. Many people have great all oral cycles of all kinds. Its a damn pile of crap to say you can't. Also a pile of crap to say sides are soooo much more then with other cycles.

Ya there is the safe cycles out there both oral and inject and there is also the less safe cycles with both orals and injects. All depends on the compounds you use, support sups, length of the cycle, you as a person and more.

Saying you can not get great gains from a 8 week oral cycle but can from a 8 week inject cycle ( like it looks like nelson is saying) is a line of bull shit.

So a hormone in oral form over a 8 week time freom can not give the same results as it can in inject form? HA HA wtf ever.

so A hormone's gains can be kept after a 8 week cycle because is was injected but that same hormones gains can not be kept after a 8 week cycle because it was taken oral? Again lmao ha ha fucking ha. The logic is not there. Its just nor fucking there and anyone trying to say it is is fucked in the head.


I do not see how some one can advacate the use of a short inject cycle and say gains are more easy to keep and shot down is less and blah blah blah but then turn around and knock a shor aas oral cycle.

With what god damn science do they have to back that argument. What oral hormones are act differently in the body then they do when injected? please.


THe active hormone acts on the receptor the same damn way as soon as it passes. And that is the plan hard facts.

SO the only argument left is the sides really. That is it. The sides to the liver is the only point left to argue about.

WIth good support sups and proper cycles its not a problem for most people. Plan and damn simple.

That's not at all what I'm saying bro. Hey, who loves ya, remember? lol!

My point is the TOXICITY. You can't deny there's a greater risk with orals. And you can't deny it's more imperative to use the proper supps when using high dosages of orals.

I just don't want people to think that any oral dosage is safe as long as they pop a couple of supps. It's a balance. Sure, everyone is different. But too many people think THEY are the ones who it won't effect negatively.

I love orals! But some people fall a little too in love with them.
 
That's not at all what I'm saying bro. Hey, who loves ya, remember? lol!

My point is the TOXICITY. You can't deny there's a greater risk with orals. And you can't deny it's more imperative to use the proper supps when using high dosages of orals.

I just don't want people to think that any oral dosage is safe as long as they pop a couple of supps. It's a balance. Sure, everyone is different. But too many people think THEY are the ones who it won't effect negatively.

I love orals! But some people fall a little too in love with them.


I had a phone call about 4 weeks ago that really scared the fuck out of me. I told a few people about it at the time.

A guy called me and asked me what the side effects of taking 6 caps a day of beastdrol would be.

My first reaction was to think the call had to be a joke. I was thinking this just has to be a damn joke. There is no way there is some one dumn enough out there to even think about taking this kind of a beastdrol dose.

Guy went on to explain that he had a friend who always did real high dosed dbol cycles of around 100mg ed and was doing a beastdrol cycle of around 60-100mg ed and he was scared for his friend.


Asked me what I should tell him. I said go ahead and tell your friend that the maker of the product said he was the biggest dumb ass He had ever heard of in his life. That my product says do not take more then two caps a day for a reason and 3 caps a day is pushing it.

6-10 caps a god damn day this fucker was taking and I am not sure if he kept doing it ether. I know he did not get that advice from this forum. He thought that shit up all on his own.

How retarded people can be though. 6-10 caps a day. Put your self in a hospital doses just because 100mg of dbol was ok for him...


One compound is not the same as another people. dbol is not the same as beastdrol, and anadrol is not the same as var.

Learn about each one.
 
I had a phone call about 4 weeks ago that really scared the fuck out of me. I told a few people about it at the time.

A guy called me and asked me what the side effects of taking 6 caps a day of beastdrol would be.

My first reaction was to think the call had to be a joke. I was thinking this just has to be a damn joke. There is no way there is some one dumn enough out there to even think about taking this kind of a beastdrol dose.

Guy went on to explain that he had a friend who always did real high dosed dbol cycles of around 100mg ed and was doing a beastdrol cycle of around 60-100mg ed and he was scared for his friend.


Asked me what I should tell him. I said go ahead and tell your friend that the maker of the product said he was the biggest dumb ass He had ever heard of in his life. That my product says do not take more then two caps a day for a reason and 3 caps a day is pushing it.

6-10 caps a god damn day this fucker was taking and I am not sure if he kept doing it ether. I know he did not get that advice from this forum. He thought that shit up all on his own.

How retarded people can be though. 6-10 caps a day. Put your self in a hospital doses just because 100mg of dbol was ok for him...


One compound is not the same as another people. dbol is not the same as beastdrol, and anadrol is not the same as var.

Learn about each one.

That's a perfect example. Here is this great product which is undeniably powerful and the manufacturer says to not exceed the dosage and people just figure "fuck it" I'll do more. Beastrol falls into the same catagory as something like drol. Fast gains, but hard on the liver. So be careful guys. And don;t get greedy. You can always do more down the road. But if you OD on any of this stuff you can hurt yourself. Use it as an aid. But treat it like dynamite. A well placed explosion can make the process a lot faster. But too much will just tear everything to pieces. No joke.
 
Guy went on to explain that he had a friend who always did real high dosed dbol cycles of around 100mg ed and was doing a beastdrol cycle of around 60-100mg ed and he was scared for his friend.

There's always the one guy that fucks everything up for everyone else and above is just that guy; the guy I nominate as most likely to get SD clones and other currently legal supps illegal for good. One that is the model for why steroids are banned in the first place: irresponsible use. DO NOT BE THAT GUY. be a human and be responsible for your own health.

It's easy to argue that oral cycles aren't that bad, just like any injectable steroid there are risks, precautions, and supplements you need to run along and afterward for optimal health.

No doubt that too much of a good thing could be bad though... if anyone relies only on oral cycles running them one after the other until they die I would imagine we might see their liver be posted all over the web next to the hardcore alcoholic's liver.
 
I can only speak for myself... I have run orals (with test) in excess of 12 weeks and while my liver enzymes were elevated, they weren't extraordinarily high. And after my PCT it was back to normal.

I've yet to see any hard evidence ie blood tests, research, etc that shows 17-aa to be permanently damaging to the liver. I'm not saying they aren't but I just haven't seen the proof yet. I would really like to see the evidence both ways, other than my own experiences.

Does anyone have any links?
 
Same people who say all oral cycles will fuck you up will then go and run the same amount of orals in a inject cycles. They seem to think as long as they add some injectable steroids its magically ok to run as mnay orals as they like for as long as they like. Double standard mother fuckers in every way. This is all I see most of the time.
 
I can only speak for myself... I have run orals (with test) in excess of 12 weeks and while my liver enzymes were elevated, they weren't extraordinarily high. And after my PCT it was back to normal.


I've yet to see any hard evidence ie blood tests, research, etc that shows 17-aa to be permanently damaging to the liver. I'm not saying they aren't but I just haven't seen the proof yet. I would really like to see the evidence both ways, other than my own experiences.

Does anyone have any links?

I don;t get posts like this. It isn;t like someone dying of liver failure gets front page news. No one is conducting surveys to keep track of guys who used steroids and had problems. That's the whole point of my post. YOU are the only e responsible for your health. Elevated levels are a warning. You can heed them, or ignore them -- just like ironhorse did.
 
a good way to use orals and keep levels low is to use them in sort of a wave pattern

i just started one of my favorite cycles. Deca and Dbol. An old classic obviously. But I do it a little different.

basically ill hit it for 6-8 weeks
Ill do 400 mg deca on days 1,2: 15,16: 30,31 and optional day 45,46 depedending on my results and health.

the Dbol I downramp.
looks something like this
Days1,2 60 mg
Days 3-4 50 mg
Days 5-8 40 mg

Days 15,16 60mg
days 17,18 50 mg
Days 19-23 40 mg


This is done due to take advantage of the androgenic nature of the Dbol while the deca is slowly releasing into my system( 16 day active life)

I find doing Dbol this way(1 week on 1 week off) gives my body ample time to grow, keep the receptors fresh, and it is much easier on my liver.


And as a note I always supplement with milk thistle and I drink kombucha tea every day to get a good dose of Glucuronic acid.



hope this helps bros!



stay healthy!


:coffee:


p.s. those doses I use due to my size( i am 278 currently at about 8-9% bf)

for guys around 200 lbs id recommend just doing the 400 mg deca on days 1, 15, 30 and 45....dose the Dbol 20mg less per day than I do.
 
Nelson, you are wrong. Hepatoxicity is extremely overstated and exaggerated.

Furthermore, 50mg of one oral is NOT THE SAME as 50mg of another oral. For example, 10mg of Halotestin is significantly more toxic than 10mg of Dianabol. When calculating toxicity of methylated oral steroids, it is not the dosage that must be considered, it is the COMPOUND itself!

Having said that, I have personally run orals at more than 50mg for more than 8 weeks with NO ELEVATION in liver values. I have many friends and colleagues who have as well.
 
Nelson, you are wrong. Hepatoxicity is extremely overstated and exaggerated.

Furthermore, 50mg of one oral is NOT THE SAME as 50mg of another oral. For example, 10mg of Halotestin is significantly more toxic than 10mg of Dianabol. When calculating toxicity of methylated oral steroids, it is not the dosage that must be considered, it is the COMPOUND itself!

Having said that, I have personally run orals at more than 50mg for more than 8 weeks with NO ELEVATION in liver values. I have many friends and colleagues who have as well.

Ross, it's amazing that someone who has amassed so much knowledge can be wrong so very often.

Hepotoxicity is not exaggerated. Naturally, some people tolerate it better than others, as with alcohol, but if it happens to you, you won;t be thinking it's overstated.

As for toxicity, it's compound AND methylation. So anavar is less toxic than holtestin but the 17 AA still strains the liver.

There are substances that aren't 17 AA and still liver toxic, such as Tylonal or even proviron or Primo acetate. But nobody takes 10 Tylonal a day non stop for 12 weeks.

If you've run orals at that dose with no problem, good for you -- though I don;t really believe you. Maybe you have a strong constitution and maybe it's because you're still young. I've seen elevation with much less.

At any rate, why do people defend what is obviously a risk? Denial, denial, denial. I'm not saying orals will kill you. it's just an added contraindication that you need to keep an eye on.
 
I don;t get posts like this. It isn;t like someone dying of liver failure gets front page news. No one is conducting surveys to keep track of guys who used steroids and had problems. That's the whole point of my post. YOU are the only e responsible for your health. Elevated levels are a warning. You can heed them, or ignore them -- just like ironhorse did.


Is it wrong to ask for proof? The only way most people here know anything about AAS is from boards like this with a lot of great information regurgitated over time, and lots of inaccurate information. I'm not saying this topic is inaccurate. 17aa's are obviously toxic and cause stress to the liver.

Like I said in my experience 14+ weeks of 17aa and slightly elevated liver enzymes. And soon after I come off, liver enzymes are back to normal.

I'm just really curious as to who has proof that 17aa are more than slightly liver toxic.

The only real world examples of liver problems I have seen is from alcoholics. There are forums for alcoholics that I've checked out. People post their bloodwork. People who have levels elevated way past anywhere I have been and have come back to normal after 3-6 months.

Now I'm not saying that 17aa's aren't toxic, I'm not saying that there can be no liver problems. I'm not saying anyone should do high doses of 17aa's for long periods of time.

All I'm saying is that I have yet to see the evidence that 17aa's will cause long term liver problems. I'd really like to know where this originated and when.
 
AAS use does have a correlation to some elevated liver values, but the effect is in fact exaggerated, and does not neccesarily mean liver damage is present. Exercise itself will increase your liver values (CK levels) by a large margin. GGT values, which are a tell-tale marker for hepatitis, are not eleveated from AAS use. AST and ALT and CK levels appear to be elevated from AAS use, but exercise will also elevate the liver enzymes. Elevated levels of these enzymes DO NOT neccesarily correlate to liver damage. In fact only one case has been reported of AAS induced hepatits, that was in 2002. The rarity of the situation leads me to believe this person was doing something else or had some genetic issue.
 
I routinely take 100 mgs/day of winstrol during my cycle and have not have elevated liver enzyme problems. And yes I get bloodwork done before and after a cycle.
 
Nelson you're wrong.

Anavar is broken down in the kidneys primarily. How is that liver toxic?

I love when people shout "You're wrong" and they so obviously don't know what they're talking about. Do some research bro and learn.

Well, it seems I've touched on a nerve. I also think people take a warning as a threat -- or a doomsday prediction. I guess because I spend so much time explaining to laymen that steroids aren't the killers that the media makes them out to be, I then balance it out by giving caution to those who treat them a little too cavalierly.

I don;'have any studies of people who died from liver damage caused by steroids. I also don't have any studies of people who died from eating rat poison. But let's use a little common sense here folks. With all the shit, and all the high dosages people take, it's easy to go over the line. We see it all the time.

FOUR FUCKING MEMBERS IN THE LAST HALF FUCKING YEAR HAVE DIED!!!

All under 40.

So all I ask is that every now and then, pull your head out of your ass and take a look around.

Steroids are great. They can do wonderful things. But we're a community of self prescribers and not everyone is all that knowledable and all that responsible. And the toughest patient to reason with is the one you can always rationalize with -- YOURSELF.

So just be careful, okay guys? Trust me. I know what I'm talking about.
 
I love when people shout "You're wrong" and they so obviously don't know what they're talking about. Do some research bro and learn.

Well, it seems I've touched on a nerve. I also think people take a warning as a threat -- or a doomsday prediction. I guess because I spend so much time explaining to laymen that steroids aren't the killers that the media makes them out to be, I then balance it out by giving caution to those who treat them a little too cavalierly.

I don;'have any studies of people who died from liver damage caused by steroids. I also don't have any studies of people who died from eating rat poison. But let's use a little common sense here folks. With all the shit, and all the high dosages people take, it's easy to go over the line. We see it all the time.

FOUR FUCKING MEMBERS IN THE LAST HALF FUCKING YEAR HAVE DIED!!!

All under 40.

So all I ask is that every now and then, pull your head out of your ass and take a look around.

Steroids are great. They can do wonderful things. But we're a community of self prescribers and not everyone is all that knowledable and all that responsible. And the toughest patient to reason with is the one you can always rationalize with -- YOURSELF.

So just be careful, okay guys? Trust me. I know what I'm talking about.

To break it down for you...

Your trying to tell us to be careful and use gear wisely..because improper use of a steroid can be very harmful to us or even death. I get your post and K to you for the info.
 
To break it down for you...

Your trying to tell us to be careful and use gear wisely..because improper use of a steroid can be very harmful to us or even death. I get your post and K to you for the info.

You might say that -- if you want to be really facetious.
 
I love when people shout "You're wrong" and they so obviously don't know what they're talking about. Do some research bro and learn.

Well, it seems I've touched on a nerve. I also think people take a warning as a threat -- or a doomsday prediction. I guess because I spend so much time explaining to laymen that steroids aren't the killers that the media makes them out to be, I then balance it out by giving caution to those who treat them a little too cavalierly.

I don;'have any studies of people who died from liver damage caused by steroids. I also don't have any studies of people who died from eating rat poison. But let's use a little common sense here folks. With all the shit, and all the high dosages people take, it's easy to go over the line. We see it all the time.

FOUR FUCKING MEMBERS IN THE LAST HALF FUCKING YEAR HAVE DIED!!!

All under 40.

So all I ask is that every now and then, pull your head out of your ass and take a look around.

Steroids are great. They can do wonderful things. But we're a community of self prescribers and not everyone is all that knowledable and all that responsible. And the toughest patient to reason with is the one you can always rationalize with -- YOURSELF.

So just be careful, okay guys? Trust me. I know what I'm talking about.

How do you know I'm shouting?

Go to PubMed Home. There you will see actual medical STUDIES which prove that anavar is broken down in the kidneys. THAT IS ALL I'M SAYING.

This IS the research in which I gained my knowledge. Where did yours come from? Funny, that has yet to be mentioned. I'm interested in facts not Brology.

If this has struck a nerve with anyone it has to start with you. I see you didn't become combative with Needto earlier in the thread when he said somethhing along the lines of not agreeing with you. You did become combative with Ross and myself however.
 
How do you know I'm shouting?

Go to PubMed Home. There you will see actual medical STUDIES which prove that anavar is broken down in the kidneys. THAT IS ALL I'M SAYING.

This IS the research in which I gained my knowledge. Where did yours come from? Funny, that has yet to be mentioned. I'm interested in facts not Brology.

If this has struck a nerve with anyone it has to start with you. I see you didn't become combative with Needto earlier in the thread when he said somethhing along the lines of not agreeing with you. You did become combative with Ross and myself however.

Bro there are also pubmed articles that refer to Anavar and other 17 AA oral steroids as hepatoxic. Also, patients that are prescribed Anavar (a lot of times these are chilidren) are monitored for liver values/ function. Clinical doses are generally lower than what we use as well...
 
How do you know I'm shouting?

Go to PubMed Home. There you will see actual medical STUDIES which prove that anavar is broken down in the kidneys. THAT IS ALL I'M SAYING.

This IS the research in which I gained my knowledge. Where did yours come from? Funny, that has yet to be mentioned. I'm interested in facts not Brology.

If this has struck a nerve with anyone it has to start with you. I see you didn't become combative with Needto earlier in the thread when he said somethhing along the lines of not agreeing with you. You did become combative with Ross and myself however.

As 2evil perfectly pointed out, there's plenty of evidence, so why are you questioning it? My only guess is that you're unaware, therefore need to learn more. Or, you're just trying to be difficult.

The "shouting" reference was a figure of speech since you were so adamant in your opinion.

I'm combative with Ross because we have a long history of disagreeing. I think Ross thought he could build a reputation by questioning me.

Not sure where the "bro-ology" comes from. I use my real name. I've been in the industry for decades. Maybe you're mistaken me for some guy who hangs around message boards.
 
Guys EVERY drug, food, liquid, etc. that we ingest eventually goes through the liver. The liver detoxifies the whole body. It's a moot point. I'm not taking sides here, these are facts.
 
Nelson you're wrong.

Anavar is broken down in the kidneys primarily. How is that liver toxic?


You are correct, Anavar is metabolized in the kidneys unlike other orals that are broken down in the liver (winstrol). However liver function is still slightly effected, Var is RX'd to patients in long term use without any liver problems. Approx at 10mg ED over a year+ time


And Nelson, no offense, but please do show some studies to back the "Think of taking 10 shots of liquor a day non stop for 2 months straght."... I find this bogus and I also don't think it's good as a board sponser, where new guys are taking everything you say serious, to be reading such a unprovable statement and then have it passed throught the grapevines.
 
You are correct, Anavar is metabolized in the kidneys unlike other orals that are broken down in the liver (winstrol). However liver function is still slightly effected, Var is RX'd to patients in long term use without any liver problems. Approx at 10mg ED over a year+ time


And Nelson, no offense, but please do show some studies to back the "Think of taking 10 shots of liquor a day non stop for 2 months straght."... I find this bogus and I also don't think it's good as a board sponser, where new guys are taking everything you say serious, to be reading such a unprovable statement and then have it passed throught the grapevines.

Show me one example of being cautious hurting anybody.
 
i'm just saying that's a bold comparison to make Nelson....

that's like saying "anavar fucks your lipids up, it's like eating 10 egg yolks 6 times a day", I mean it's one thing to say it has an effect on your cholesterol, but what's the point of sugar coating your point with an unfactual comparison? For shock value?

it's info like this that has idiots running around making dumb claims
 
Totally understand your points Nelson.

I was unaware that we had that many board members pass away. What were the causes?

One, seemingly from heart failure due to clen use. Another had an enlarged heart. Uncertain of the others.
 
One, seemingly from heart failure due to clen use. Another had an enlarged heart. Uncertain of the others.

heart failure from clen? YIKES

Were there any symptoms or signs before hand? Are you talking about the guy that was a friend of a member or an actual member?

I'm curious because clen is the one thing that I worry about myself taking.
 
heart failure from clen? YIKES

Were there any symptoms or signs before hand? Are you talking about the guy that was a friend of a member or an actual member?

I'm curious because clen is the one thing that I worry about myself taking.

A very good member here.
 
was he taking a large dose?

I'm not sure. I know he was very experienced with it and would push the limits and lengths of use. Who knows what genetic issues may have contributed to it but I don't think anyone here thought of his as reckless. Serves as a reminder and a warning...
 
I'm not sure. I know he was very experienced with it and would push the limits and lengths of use. Who knows what genetic issues may have contributed to it but I don't think anyone here thought of his as reckless. Serves as a reminder and a warning...

for real. I typically do runs at 120mcg for 3 weeks max... But it still has always scared me. For me sides are never bad, but you just never know.
 
for real. I typically do runs at 120mcg for 3 weeks max... But it still has always scared me. For me sides are never bad, but you just never know.


one bor to another, stop the clen. it is not worth the damage to the cardiovascular system. its garbage and the gains you are making you could make naturally with harder/smarter work. not worth it.
 
one bor to another, stop the clen. it is not worth the damage to the cardiovascular system. its garbage and the gains you are making you could make naturally with harder/smarter work. not worth it.

I'm going to give that sentiment very serious consideration once I finish up this run, I've got 5 days left. The thing is that my diet/cardio/training is absolutely perfect already. I like the way I feel on ECA better, but clen really does give me a strong boost over ECA and even Lipoflame/Lipostim all else equal. After this run, I'm taking 14 days of stimulants and I'll come back with the new liposhred stack and maybe never go back to clen
 
Clenbuterol isn't even an anabolic steroid. In most of the cases involving death related to steroids, it has been other drugs such as painkillers and precription diuretics that have been the culprit(or the use of HGH or SLIN).
 
Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: Is it overstated?

Clin J Sport Med 1999 Jan;9(1):34-9 (ISSN: 1050-642X)

Dickerman RD; Pertusi RM; Zachariah NY; Dufour DR; McConathy WJ

The Department of Biomedical Science, University of North Texas Health Science Center, Fort Worth 76107-2699, USA.

OBJECTIVE: There have been numerous reports of hepatic dysfunction secondary to anabolic steroid use based on elevated levels of serum aminotransferases. This study was conducted to distinguish between serum aminotransaminase elevations secondary to intense resistance training and anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity in elite bodybuilders.

DESIGN: This was a case-control study of serum chemistry profiles from bodybuilders using and not using anabolic steroids with comparisons to a cohort of medical students and patients with hepatitis.

PARTICIPANTS: The participants were bodybuilders taking self-directed regimens of anabolic steroids (n = 15) and bodybuilders not taking steroids (n = 10). Blood chemistry profiles from patients with viral hepatitis (n = 49) and exercising and nonexercising medical students (592) were used as controls.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: The focus in blood chemistry profiles was aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT), gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase (GGT), and creatine kinase (CK) levels.

RESULTS: In both groups of bodybuilders, CK, AST, and ALT were elevated, whereas GGT remained in the normal range. In contrast, patients with hepatitis had elevations of all three enzymes: ALT, AST, and GGT. Creatine kinase (CK) was elevated in all exercising groups. Patients with hepatitis were the only group in which a correlation was found between aminotransferases and GGT.

CONCLUSION: Prior reports of anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity based on elevated aminotransferase levels may have been overstated, because no exercising subjects, including steroid users, demonstrated hepatic dysfunction based on GGT levels. Such reports may have misled the medical community to emphasize steroid-induced hepatotoxicity when interpreting elevated aminotransferase levels and disregard muscle damage. For these reasons, when evaluating hepatic function in cases of anabolic steroid therapy or abuse, CK and GGT levels should be considered in addition to ALT and AST levels as essential elements of the assessment.
 
As 2evil perfectly pointed out, there's plenty of evidence, so why are you questioning it? My only guess is that you're unaware, therefore need to learn more. Or, you're just trying to be difficult.

The "shouting" reference was a figure of speech since you were so adamant in your opinion.

I'm combative with Ross because we have a long history of disagreeing. I think Ross thought he could build a reputation by questioning me.

Not sure where the "bro-ology" comes from. I use my real name. I've been in the industry for decades. Maybe you're mistaken me for some guy who hangs around message boards.

Where is the evidence that oral steroids are so hepatoxic?

It doesn't exist..

You are just another salesman who doesn't really have a clue.
 
Hepatoxicty: Fact or Fiction
by Roy Harper

We all know that the alpha alkylated steroids are hepatotoxic, right?.. But, is there actually any truth to this? We?ve been told for years that if you take 17 alpha-alkylated steroids, you will eventually run into liver problems. Never combine 17 aa's, never go beyond 50mg day, never go longer than 4 weeks, etc. All of this is crap! As I we walk you through some studies, today, you'll see 17 alpha-alkylated steroids can be hepatotoxic but not to the degree you would think.

To make a steroid hepatotoxic, you need only a small change to a steroid molecule; A strong bond that cannot readily be down broken by enzymes in the liver. This may be a bond at the 17th position, or even at the 1st position (as in methenolone or proviron). Because the liver cannot easily break the steroid down before it is released in to the blood stream, this also results in the steroid to becoming more orally bio-available.

We can see that the liver has to work harder to break down these steroids. Enzymes in the blood and tissue easily metabolize other steroids such as Testosterone. Commonly, this increase in liver activity has been viewed as a harmful process, but as you will see, this increase is, in and of itself, irrelevant. The liver is THE filter of the human body -- it can figure out what to do with just about anything. The only real problem comes in when one keeps their liver at full blast for long periods of time.

Let?s look at some studies showing the hepatotoxicity of steroids. Here's one of my favorites, a study published in 1979[1]. Essentially, researches did a study of deaths caused by hepatic angiosarcoma (a malignant tumor of vascular tissue in the liver) between 1964 and 1974. Researchers found 131 reported cases of death from hepatic angiosarcoma. Out of the 131 cases, 3.1% (4 cases) were reported to be at all related to the use of androgenic-anabolic steroids. Keep in mind that these 4 people could have liver complications before any steroids were used, aka a genetic disposition. In fact there is no proof, in this study at least, that the anabolic-androgenic steroids even caused the hepatic angiosarcoma.

This is the classic case of associating a cause with an effect, without any evidence, aside from both existing. Furthermore, based on the above numbers, there are only 0.4 cases of hepatic angiosarcoma reported each year, by those using AAS. Now consider the number of people on steroids at this time. Now factor in all the people that don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to using AAS, properly. Clearly, this is very weak evidence. Lastly there has not been a real increase in hepatic angiosarcoma since the early seventies. Meanwhile, there has been a huge, almost exponential, increase in steroid use during this period.

Another study, that somewhat supports the previous hepatotoxicity case, showed the possibilities of hepatic adenomas(cysts in the liver) caused by androgenic-anabolic steroids[2]. In this study, a Japanese girl was found to have multiple liver lesions after the use of the drug oxymetholone (aka Anadrol). Most everyone knows that Anadrol is linked with liver problems, but a closer inspection into this study shows more.

Apparently, this girl, starting at the age of 14, was diagnosed with aplastic anemia. She was prescribed oxymetholone at 30mg per day. This continued for 6 years until the lesions first appeared. Assuming that the girl was most likely around 100 lbs., this was a pretty heavy dosage. If you extrapolated this data out to a 200 - 250lbs. male, that would be taking approximately 60 - 90mg of anadrol per day for 6 years. Ouch!

The researchers also stated that there were only 17 other cases of hepatic adenomas, found in English literature between 1975 and 1998. They failed to mention the causes of these 17 cases, but there is no reason to believe they were all using 17-AA androgens and 17 is certainly miniscule compared to the number of people who have used them. The authors finish off the study by saying the following: "This report may be helpful in identifying the population who is at risk of developing hepatic sex hormone-related tumors." So remember, if you're a small 14-year-old girl taking 30mg of Anadrol per day for 6 years, you may be at risk!



Let's move on to some more useful studies. Take for example a 1995 study that showed the toxic effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids in primary rat hepatic cell cultures[3]. In this study the researchers used the following drugs and dosages:

Steroid
1x10^-8M
1x10^-6M
1x10^-4M

19-nortestosterone
0.002744mg
0.2744mg
27.44mg

Fluoxymesterone
0.003365mg
0.3365mg
33.65mg

Testosterone cypionate
0.004126mg
0.4126mg
41.26mg

Stanozolol
0.003285mg
0.3285mg
32.85mg

Danazol
N/A
N/A
N/A

Oxymetholone
0.003325mg
0.3325mg
33.25mg

Testosterone
0.002884mg
0.2884mg
28.84mg

Estradiol
0.0027424mg
0.2724mg
27.24mg

Methyltestosterone
0.003024mg
0.3024mg
30.24mg


As proof of the hepatoxicity they used Lactate dehydrogenase release, neutral red retention, and glutathione depletion to determine plasma membrane damage, cell viability, and possible oxidative injury, respectively.

What they showed was that the 17 alpha-alkylated steroids, methyltestosterone, stanozolol and oxymetholone, significantly increased Lactate dehydrogenase release and decreased neutral red retention at the 1x10^-4M dosage for 24h. Both methyltestosterone and oxymetholone also showed depleted glutathione at the 1x10^-4M dosage after 2h, 6h and 8h treatments. In other words they increased liver activity. You may also note that the other, non-alkylated steroids showed no significant difference in any levels. All in all this not only shows that 17 alpha-alkylated steroids are directly 'hepatotoxic', but also non-alkylated steroids are not hepatotoxic at all. But is this a real measure of hepatotoxicity?

There is yet to be any correlation between the increase of the above-mentioned measurement and 'hepatotoxicity'. Obviously, high dosages of the 17 alpha-alkylated steroids are potentially dangerous, but upon closer inspection, the study reveals more.

Take a look, the researchers took cell cultures from the livers of 60-day-old Sprague-Dawley rats. Not only are rat livers much smaller than human livers, but these were merely cultures. Furthermore, it was the 1x10^-4M concentrations that caused the most changes, but these are approximately 1 to a 1/3 of a full, daily human dosage -- at least for the 17 alpha-alkylated steroids. Even at the 1x10^-6M concentration, there were no significant changes observed. It's apparent that the levels of 17 alpha-alkylated steroids used were potentially toxic, but for a human to take the same amount would be insane. I'm guessing this could translate to maybe 4 grams every 24 hours or 28 grams a week if not more.

What is common so far is we can only prove that any steroid, that is believed to be hepatotoxic, only increases liver activity. I'll say it again, where is the correlation to hepatotoxicity? We know that if the liver is running at 100% for long periods this may cause complications, but this is akin to any other chemical, which is metabolized by the liver. Ever noticed that liver cancer due to alcoholism takes decades of constant alcohol abuse? It's apparent that the possibility for hepatotoxicity is there, but for the smart steroid user this is nearly an impossible task.

Another study done in 1999, attempted to show the acute and chronic effects of stanozolol on the liver[4]. In acute treatments of stanozolol, dosages not mentioned, both cytochrome P456 and b5 (microsomal enzymes) levels dropped after 48 hours, and then at 72 hours, levels significant increased. On the other hand, with chronic treatments, time or dosage not mentioned, these microsomal enzymes showed a decrease in levels. Researchers showed that both acute and chronic treatments resulted in "slight to moderate inflammatory or degenerative lesions in centrilobular hepatocytes", but the authors did not note true hepatotoxicity.

How about we look at the other side of the story, the good studies. For instance, in a 1999 study, which looked at the effects of an 8-week cycle of 17 alpha-alkylated steroids[5]. The researchers used fluoxymesterone, methylandrostanolone, or stanozolol on rats at 2mg/kg-body weight, five times a week for 8 weeks. That's 182mg per dosage, for a 200lb man, or 910mg per week. Half of the rats were sedentary and the other were trained on a treadmill.

Levels of NADH-cytochrome c reductase, succinate cytochrome c reductase, and cytochrome oxidase (showing liver activity), increased in the steroid-administered rats, while citrate synthase showed no change. Comparatively, in vitro, the "cytochrome oxidase and citrate synthase activities were insensitive to the AAS, whereas NADH-cytochrome c reductase and succinate cytochrome c reductase activities were partly inhibited."

Furthermore, in vivo, each rat had liver enzyme levels that were within normal range. From this, the researchers determined that the steroid-administered rats, trained or sedentary, did not show "...classical serum indicators of hepatic function". Extrapolating this, 910mg a week for 8 weeks could potentially have little to no effect on the liver in humans.

As for human studies, in 1999 researchers tried to prove that the hepatotoxicity of steroids is overstated[6]. In this study, 15 of the participants were bodybuilders using self-administered steroid dosages and 10 were non-steroid bodybuilders. Serum data was compared to 49 patients with viral hepatitis, and 592 exercising and non-exercising medical students. [

All of the bodybuilders showed increases in aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT) and creatine kinase (CK) while gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase (GGT) levels were in the normal range. In comparison, hepatitis patients showed increased ALT, AST, and GGT levels while the control exercising medical students showed increased CK levels. From this, the researchers suggested that it is the correlation between AST, ALT and GGT that shows true liver dysfunction. Keep in mind, we can only guess that the 15 steroid users were using 17 alpha-alkylated steroids, and we do not know what the dosages that were used., but common sense tells us the results are likely relevant.

Last but not least, a simple study done in 1996, showed the long term benefits after taking a 3 month break from steroids[7]. 16 bodybuilders using steroids were compared to 12 bodybuilders that were not. After a three-month drug withdrawal, the researchers showed that levels of liver enzymes, types not mentioned, returned to the same as the non users. Again the dosages are left to the reader's imagination and we can only guess that the 16 steroid users were using 17 alpha-alkylated steroids.

So what can we conclude from all of this? First off, 17 alpha-alkylated steroids are hepatotoxic in high dosages taken for a long time. On the other hand, short cycles and small dosages appear to be perfectly safe. I suggest that maximum dosages should be 50mg to 90mg per day. They should be cycled for perhaps 8 weeks at a time, and if needed a 3-month break from them should be used. Using the above-mentioned techniques, your liver can be healthy for a long time. Simply put, the hysteria surrounding 'hepatoxic' steroids, is based mainly on folk lore.


References:

[1] Lancet 1979 Nov 24;2(8152):1120-3, Hepatic angiosarcoma associated with androgenic-anabolic steroids. Falk H, Thomas LB, Popper H, Ishak KG.

[2] J Gastroenterol 2000;35(7):557-62, Multiple hepatic adenomas caused by long-term administration of androgenic steroids for aplastic anemia in association with familial adenomatous polyposis. Nakao A, Sakagami K, Nakata Y, Komazawa K, Amimoto T, Nakashima K, Isozaki H, Takakura N, Tanaka N.

[3] J Pharmacol Toxicol Methods 1995 Aug;33(4):187-95, Toxic effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids in primary rat hepatic cell cultures. Welder AA, Robertson JW, Melchert RB.

[4] Arch Toxicol 1999 Nov;73(8-9):465-72, Evaluation of acute and chronic hepatotoxic effects exerted by anabolic-androgenic steroid stanozolol in adult male rats. Boada LD, Zumbado M, Torres S, Lopez A, Diaz-Chico BN, Cabrera JJ, Luzardo OP.

[5] Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1999 Feb;31(2):243-50, Rat liver lysosomal and mitochondrial activities are modified by anabolic-androgenic steroids. Molano F, Saborido A, Delgado J, Moran M, Megias A.

[6] Clin J Sport Med 1999 Jan;9(1):34-9, Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated? Dickerman RD, Pertusi RM, Zachariah NY, Dufour DR, McConathy WJ.

[7] Int J Sports Med 1996 Aug;17(6):429-33, Body composition, cardiovascular risk factors and liver function in long-term androgenic-anabolic steroids using bodybuilders three months after drug withdrawal. Hartgens F, Kuipers H, Wijnen JA, Keizer HA.
Reply With Quote
 
Ross, you are such a clown.

Yes, we all know clen isn't a steroid. Yes, many of the ancilliaries are more dangerous than steroids. The point is, there are lots of things guys do to look better, much of which isn't necessarily healthy. Do we really need to debate each substance one by one to determine which is worse?

And that study is a joke. Where are the dosages?

I'm not going to play the "show me the references" game with you. That's so 1999. Do your own searches.

And that article you referenced is a bigger joke. The author has no published works other than a blog on bodybuilding . com, which is where you cut and pasted it from.
 
Show me one example of being cautious hurting anybody.

That was not the question being asked. He asked for you to post up studies to justify your statements.

I just don't understand WHY you're so stubborn with this issue.

The bottom line to what I've been saying the entire time is that anavar is primarily broken down in the kidneys. NOTHING MORE.

For whatever reason you just can't and won't accept anyone disagreeing with you. Immature to say the least.

Just chalk it up to we agree to disagree.

I won't do this drama with you anymore. You just HAVE to be right and have the last say in everything. So be it.
 
That was not the question being asked. He asked for you to post up studies to justify your statements.

I just don't understand WHY you're so stubborn with this issue.

The bottom line to what I've been saying the entire time is that anavar is primarily broken down in the kidneys. NOTHING MORE.

For whatever reason you just can't and won't accept anyone disagreeing with you. Immature to say the least.

Just chalk it up to we agree to disagree.

I won't do this drama with you anymore. You just HAVE to be right and have the last say in everything. So be it.


Some pretty purile statements yourself right there.

Dude, I've answered your question 4 times. You're acting like a child asking it over and over again. It has nothing to do with accepting disagreement. Wrong is wrong and you're wrong and I told you why. The 17 AA process strains the liver. If you want to know more, there's this invention called a computer where you can find more information. I really don;t know what else to say to you to explain it any clearer.

It is not a matter of disagreeing. It's a matter of you not underatnding and not accepting it.
 
Clenbuterol isn't even an anabolic steroid. In most of the cases involving death related to steroids, it has been other drugs such as painkillers and precription diuretics that have been the culprit(or the use of HGH or SLIN).

can you produce 1 example of hgh causing death? i highly, highly doubt it.

i am not disagreeing with anything else you said, just this as i have been around aas for well over a decade and this is the first time i have ever heard anyone make such a claim.
 
can you produce 1 example of hgh causing death? i highly, highly doubt it.

i am not disagreeing with anything else you said, just this as i have been around aas for well over a decade and this is the first time i have ever heard anyone make such a claim.

HGh has a PROFOUND effect on the HEART, your vital organ.
 
HGh has a PROFOUND effect on the HEART, your vital organ.

True. Like anything, and everyone should listen up to this expecially on this thread. ANY steroids or any drug for that matter taken too much will fuck you up eventually.

Can you do orals for 8 weeks without smashing your liver to bits??? of course you can, but most of us wouldnt take that risk. There is way too much bitching on this thread, and alot of it is from the moderators who shouldnt really be doing that....we are all trying to help each other out in the end of the day.

On a seperate point, there is a difference in oral steroids. 50mg is not simply 50mg, each drug is different.
 
You are correct, Anavar is metabolized in the kidneys unlike other orals that are broken down in the liver (winstrol). However liver function is still slightly effected, Var is RX'd to patients in long term use without any liver problems. Approx at 10mg ED over a year+ time


And Nelson, no offense, but please do show some studies to back the "Think of taking 10 shots of liquor a day non stop for 2 months straght."... I find this bogus and I also don't think it's good as a board sponser, where new guys are taking everything you say serious, to be reading such a unprovable statement and then have it passed throught the grapevines.

I would like to see some documentation that anavar is metabolised in the kidney.

It doesn't make sense that there is only one exogenous steroid that is metabolised in the kidney when all steroid hormones are metabolised in the liver.



http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/42/7/1001

The metabolism of testosterone can be discussed as a basic
metabolic pathway for all synthetic AAS. The enzymes that
convert testosterone to its distinct metabolites are also active
towards AAS when similar groups and configurations are
present.

I think this is where the confusion arises: They are referring to secondary and tertiary metabolism, not the initial metabolism of steroids.


Oxandrolone (17/3-hydroxy-l7a-methyl-2-oxa-5a-androstan-
3-one; Fig. 28) was synthesized in 1962 by Pappo and
Jung [89]. In 1989 Masse et al. [47] published a GC-MS
investigation of oxandrolone metabolism in men. Oxandrolone
is excreted unchanged and metabolized to its 17-
epimer (4), which has already been explained as a urinary
rearrangement product of an excreted 17/3-sulfate. In this
degradation process the 18-nor-!7,17-dimethyl product (5) is
also formed. Excretion of further 16-hydroxylated metabolites
(2) of oxandrolone have been confirmed, but in low
concentrations.


3) Sulfatation of the secondary 17(3-hydroxy group. Sulfatation
at the 17(3-hydroxy group in AAS is possible and is
described in the metabolism of testosterone [55] (Fig. 8, right).
Sanaullah and Bowers discussed detection of epitestosterone and
testosterone sulfates in urine by liquid chromatography/MS in
1995 [56].

4) Sulfatation of the tertiary 17(3-hydroxy group in 17(3-
hydroxy-1 7 a-methyl steroids and 17-epimerization. Sulfatation
at the 17(3-hydroxy group in 17(3-hydroxy- 17a-methyl steroids
was first described for metandienone in horses by Edlund et al.
[57]. The 17(3-sulfate of the tertiary hydroxy group is sterically
influenced and decomposes in urine to yield several dehydration
products and the corresponding 17-epimeric isomer (17ahydroxy-
l7(3-hydroxy; Fig. 9). 17-Epimerization has been demonstrated
for several 17(3-hydroxy- 17 a-methyl steroids [26, 58-
60]. The distribution of reaction products has been similar in
several studies of AAS excretion.

Studying fluoxymesterone metabolism, Horning and I were
able to isolate the assumed sulfate conjugate of fluoxymesterone
and to compare it with synthesized fluoxymesterone 17/3-sulfate
(unpublished). The urinary compound had the same HPLC
retention time and ultraviolet absorbance spectrum as the
synthesized fluoxymesterone sulfate. When the isolated metabolite
and the synthesized product were dissolved in water, they
showed the same route of hydrolysis (t112 -4 h) and the same
distribution of reaction products. From these results we concluded
that the precursor of 17-epimeric steroids is the corresponding
17/3-sulfate conjugate.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom