OCD, Depression and Lifting

[Gman]

Man my doc prescribed me Celexa back in August for terrible terrible OCD and depression which was ruining my life. Since then I have gotten quite a bit better, but I noticed I have no desire to lift and do a lot of the things I normally do. I feel content most of the time. Anyone had the same problem?

I also noticed my appetite is complete shit, I have now lost about 20 pounds since July. I am down to a weight to which I haven't been in years. I don't know what to do, I just never really feel hungry and when I do eat I completely full so fast.

I can't take protein/weight gainer shakes because many of them have tyrophan or tyrosine and their use with Celexa is contridicted.

The gift and the curse.. seriously.. i fix one problem and now I have another.. SuggestionS?

Gman

 

[icelandic]

I feel content most of the time. Anyone had the same problem?

Unfortunately, this is exactly the desired result of treatment with this type of drug. An accute feeling of complacency or blunting of emotions are common "side effects" with SSRIs. As far as the weight-loss is concerned you are lucky. Many patients actually gain weight due to increased carbohydrate cravings, another common effect from these drugs.

I'm not aware of any dangers from taking a protein supplement with an SSRI, most of the neurotransmitter-boosting properties of amino-acids only take place when the individual amino-acid is taken on an empty stomach. Did your doctor mention anything about avoiding turkey? This protein is so high in tryptophan that it does have some mild calming effects. Please ask your doctor any specific dietary questions.

Unfortunately, SSRIs are standard prodcedure in the treatment for obsessive compulsive type disorders. You should express your concerns with your own personal physician, he may have you try a different SSRI. The effects and sides of the different SSRIs vary GREATLY depending on the individual.

Good luck, and please talk to your doctor

 

[Gman]

Yeah I actually took Zoloft for 4 months last year until I got discourged enough and went off it. Then I went for quite a while without, then juiced a bit, then during my cycle developed serious anxiety, OCD, and depressive-like symptoms. Went to see a psychologist, he put me on the Celexa. Since that time, I have mentioned the weight loss to him, as well as the usual sexual side effects and has kinda brushed it off.. he says I can add Wellbutrin to my Celexa if sexual sides haven't gotten any better by the next time I go to see him. I've read the Wellbutrin is a bit 'zippy' maybe it will give me more motivation. It sucks feeling like a slug and really not caring about my body's apperance.

A person who has never taken an SSRI before will probably just say 'push yourself and get your ass to the gym.' Unfortunately, it just doesn't work that way. When they say these drugs control your emotions, make you happy when your sad, they are not kidding. Really as far as the OCD and depression are concerned, I feel a whole hell of a lot better which I am thankful for. Life was hellish there for a while.

I am a naturally thin person. Weightloss to me is light weightgain to a person who is heavyset. If I can't eat right, then what is the point of working out? I'm just burning up stored fat for energy because I am not meeting my daily caloric intake. As far as the protein shakes are concerned.. As I said certain amino acids are contridicted. My OCD rules my life still. If I take something and I am uncertain as to whether or not it is going to hurt me, or potentially kill me, I obsess about it and it makes my life miserable. For a while there I couldn't even take vitamens, I thought they were going to fuck me up. Sound crazy? Yep it is and that's the hell I call life I have been living in - and am still living in to a certain degree.

Gman

 

[BigD50]

If I were you I would stay away from the juice for a while. I would also look in to some natural supplements for helping depression. I know it may sound stupid but after my last cycle I was feeling depressed and had no motivation. I started taking some pills the old lady had in the kitchen cabinet with St. John's wort and some other things in it. I swear I started feeling really good. I would have never believed it, but it did. Also try to make some goals for yourself as far as life and working out and write them down. It may help to keep you motivated and on track. Start small and work your way back in to it. Your not alone we all struggle in life at one point or another. Just keep trying everyday and don't get discouraged if you fail along the way. Sounds like your already making some progress. Good Luck.

 

[bbkingpin]

Prozac makes me "complacent." More likely, I don't get down on myself for not working out. I think the motivation before was to stop feeling like shit. But then I think the problem is you need to workout just to feel adequate. So, the SSRIs make you a more stable person. If it frustrates achievement, well, a person who strives to avoid feelings of inadequacy will never really enjoy their achievements for long. I think people need SSRIs -- AND -- (psycho)therapy. Just think -- a lot of people who become obsessed with bodybuilding do so because of image "problems". Other people just focus on other things and usually are better off because they are not preoccupied with their body (or feelings of inadequacy). I think taking SSRIs is a good first step. Then adjust and strive for balance.

 

[Gman]

Yeah blunting of emotions as you talked about are definetely apparent.. but I suppose that what makes my OCD better. When my OCD was at it's peak a few months ago, I couldn't drink water from the tap because I thought there was chemical posion in it. I was at a wedding and there was this kid there that I didn't like and I thought he slipped some kind of drug into my drink. Neadless to say these thoughts constantly caused panic attacks, and finally they have subsided. Before going to see a shrink I tried all sorts of natural vitamen theropy - 5HTP, Inositol, St. Johns Wort, tyrosine, etc, none of which worked. I had a serious problem that was becoming debelitating so SSRI was the only option for me.

Now I am at the point I am generally feeling better.. I just have got get back to building my body again. Lifting has always been a huge part of my life.. since the time I was 17. I had great progress since the time I started.. and now am taking one huge step back.. but I suppose you have to take one step back before taking another step forward, right?

I obviously won't be taking any sauce anytime soon, if ever again. I'd just like to get over my obsession about taking supplements along with my Celexa. When I pop vitamens with this shit I get nervous, I have no idea why. I'd like to be able to start taking supplements (Creatine, Glutamine, MRPS) with it, but I still fear it for some reason (Fearly of interactions)

I had a bad SSRI experience with Paxil, it sent me to the ER. Plus I've read bad things about how SSRI's can cause serotonin syndrome if mixed with certain drugs or supplements. The say knowledge is power, but in the mind of a person with OCD a little knowledge can go a LONG way.. BAD way..

 

[marky]

Gman, maybe something better

I have shunned the SSRI's for many of the reasons cited by so many on the board. They have cause me to lose interest get tired all the time and found my appetite nonexistant. Try Anafranil. For OCD but also a powerful depression and anxiety blocker. Im on a brother compound and have a great appetite wo fatigue. One of the sides of this class of med(Tricyclic antidepressant) is weight gain. Ive juiced with this med class for 13 years and there are no interactions. Though not recommended, also I can drink with this med too and also no food unteractions. Hope this helps.

Mark

 

[Zyglamail]

Im not trying to step on anyones toes here but I truely beleive that if you are not in control or in otherwords OCD and/or depression free you should avoid AAS like the plague. Additionally if on antidepresants are often very tough on the liver adding further support to my statement.

If you are depressed or have OCD I feel meds are a bandaid fix and often times they work pretty well, but you will never be "whole" while on them. If they are making life so you can get by I highly suggest you find a therapist or someone to help you deal with depression without meds. Animals, humans included, are creatures of habit and much of depression we suffer is because we have gotten into a particular habit of thought. You need to relearn and develop more positive mental outlook so you can lead a normal med free life. I wish you luck in your endeavor to conqure you problems, depression is no fun.

 

[prophet]

Im not trying to step on anyones toes here but I truely beleive that if you are not in control or in otherwords OCD and/or depression free you should avoid AAS like the plague. Additionally if on antidepresants are often very tough on the liver adding further support to my statement.

If you are depressed or have OCD I feel meds are a bandaid fix and often times they work pretty well, but you will never be "whole" while on them. If they are making life so you can get by I highly suggest you find a therapist or someone to help you deal with depression without meds. Animals, humans included, are creatures of habit and much of depression we suffer is because we have gotten into a particular habit of thought. You need to relearn and develop more positive mental outlook so you can lead a normal med free life. I wish you luck in your endeavor to conqure you problems, depression is no fun.

i'm with zyg, i went through the whole depression thing. tons of meds and the only thing that made a difference was myself. i decided to change my life and get out of the rut i was in for so long

 

[DepressiveJuice]

i'm with zyg

yep me too. also so as the man suggests. see a therapist. they will help you deal with depression/ocd so you wont use the meds as a lifestyle

 

[Nathan]

If you are depressed or have OCD I feel meds are a bandaid fix and often times they work pretty well, but you will never be "whole" while on them. If they are making life so you can get by I highly suggest you find a therapist or someone to help you deal with depression without meds. Animals, humans included, are creatures of habit and much of depression we suffer is because we have gotten into a particular habit of thought. You need to relearn and develop more positive mental outlook so you can lead a normal med free life. I wish you luck in your endeavor to conqure you problems, depression is no fun.

I disagree Zig. It's not something a person can turn on or off. It's a part of a person's personality and what you are saying is that said person should just re-group and come up with a personality that is more cohesive with a happy, productive life? That is why I do not like meds: they have always changed my personality. I'll sink or swim on my own thanks. I may not be swimming right now but whatever. Anyways, all a doc can do is help one come up with tricks to ignore the inherent compulsions/thoughts an obsessive or depressed individual has. For me, I have underwent behavioral modification and I am still an obsessive compulsive by nature, I have simply learned how to direct it to more productive areas. I'm still working on the depression though.

 

[Zyglamail]

I disagree Zig. It's not something a person can turn on or off. It's a part of a person's personality and what you are saying is that said person should just re-group and come up with a personality that is more cohesive with a happy, productive life? That is why I do not like meds: they have always changed my personality. I'll sink or swim on my own thanks. I may not be swimming right now but whatever. Anyways, all a doc can do is help one come up with tricks to ignore the inherent compulsions/thoughts an obsessive or depressed individual has. For me, I have underwent behavioral modification and I am still an obsessive compulsive by nature, I have simply learned how to direct it to more productive areas. I'm still working on the depression though.

I think your perspective is flawed, its not about ignoring anything. On the contrary its about facing and identifying things in your life and why you act the way you do. Its definatly no on/off switch, but the way we think and our perspectives our all based out of past experience. Many things we do (breathing for example) are automated to fee up more conscious thought for other more important things. Many of our behaviours over the years become automated as well. Our mind perceives things and reacts, often times these reactions are a self defense/automated process which our subconsious percieves as beneficil byt the perception is scewed and hence the poor outcome. Many of these responses, while done subconsiously for good intentions, are very bad for us, much like a severe allergic reaction. Nathan, if you feel you are at the mercy of your "personality" then you my friend have been talking to the wrong mental health professionals. If someone, almost anyone, is truely suffering depression or anxiety etc they can help themselves (or at least be helped) but the first step is realize that it can be done. Sitting back and saying you cant just "regroup" sounds exactly like something someone is depressed would say. Depressed people dont want to admit they can be helped or help themselves. Admitting your depressed and searching for the answers is half the battle.

The mind is like a wagon on an old dirt road. The road splits into a "V" up ahead but only one way gets a lot of traffic so the ruts in the road get deeper and deeper each and every year and the horses know from frequent trips to keep going the same way time and time again. But what if you want to go down the other road? You cant simple sit back on you wagon and hope the wagon goes that way, hell no, the ruts in that road are far to deep. You have to at least stop the wagon and let the horses know your going down the other road. Often times the ruts may also be so deep that the wagon wheels are firmly entrenched. You may have to get you ass out of the wagon and pry, lift and hoist that wagon out of the ruts to get in on track down the new road.

Now, im not trying to put you down Nathan, the mind is icredibly complex yet at the same time so simple. I was told I would never walk again. As a child I did walk but was in pain all the time due to severe arthritis in one leg and one arm. The doctors told me I couldnt ride a bike or play the games the other kids played. You know what? I rode that bike and I played games with the other kids, I even accelled at many things and even to this day I am larger and stronger and healthier than all of my freinds and the people I deal with regularly. So what it boils down to is if you want to change your body, you implement a plan to do so, and the mind is no different, it can successfully be retaught and in doing so it wont ruin your personality but enhance it. Learning how your mind works, and stopping at that "V" in the road and taking control of you path is what its all about. Its all about breaking the automated responses we have developed over time. Questioning our fears, questioning why you act the way you do in a certian situation is where it all start, just stopping and recognizing the automatic response by our subconsious can get you a long way. Over time being more alert and taking a more positive role in the actions you make will work toward restablishing and recreating new, more appropriate automatic responses. I, for one, will not be a slave to my mind and realizing or admitting you can change things is where it all starts.

 

[Nathan]

Dude, that wagon analogy was priceless. I had no idea what you were talking about since I got really side-tracked when you mentioned the horsies. Naaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....Sorry. There is little point arguing it since neither of us can prove our points. Nevertheless I will ask if you have ever been diagnosed with any such disorders? Nothing is more frustrating than when some dick says "What's wrong with them?" Then a friend responds, "They suffer from depression. Makes them a bit odd at times." Then the dick in questions rebutts with, "That's retarded. They should just snap out of it. Lighten up. Fuck, it's all in their heads. They're just looking for attention." There is nothing I can say to change those peoples minds since they can't understand unless they must endure it. I feel it's a similar thing here. Being depressed cause stuff sucks and then shaking out of it is a whole other ball game from being depressed sicne you were born. I remember having a very dark outlook on life and feeling sad all the time when I was little for no reason and did not understand why. There was nothing wrong with my life. It's just the way I was. It would be a MAJOR change for me to become more postive all of the time, and I would say that it would definitely be a change in my personality. So for me, past experience does not seem to be an issue for me. Also, I do go down both roads though I have no control over it really. It's called being bi-polar. Sometimes I am manic and happy and energetic. But at other times I am the opposite. There is no shaking out of it. It comes down to many factors and while some are in my control others are not. I understand your point and i agree it is true in some situations I just don't think this is one of those situations.

 

[Gman]

I don't truely believe you can snap yourself out of a major depressive state.. you can change all the routines you want but if the chemicals are not balanced in your brain you're still not going to be happy. As far as OCD is concerned, it honestly depends on the serverity of the illness. Frankly I know from my own experience, that if the degree of the illness is severe, you cannot change things enough to truely make a difference. I thought someone was trying to poision me when I ate out somewhere. When I drank tap water, I would get nervous, sometimes trigger a panic attack because my mind was so fucked.

I haven't undergone any theropy. My shrink prescribed me Celexa, and now three months later, the chemical levels of Serotonin are returning to normal in my brain. Obviously all the effects from this medication are not positive - and I still am having some trouble to a degree.. but am I constantly stressed anymore? No, and thankfully so..

Now I wish I could just get some energy to go to the gym.. and get over these obsessions that supplement are going to react to my medication (even though I know they aren't, my mind still obesses that they might and it creates high levels of anxiety)

I know it all sounds ridiculous, but as others said previously, unless you've been here, you just don't know..

For all who aren't just be happy you aren't cursed with this.. it could be worse, it could be better..

Gman

 

[DepressiveJuice]

I don't truely believe you can snap yourself out of a major depressive state.. you can change all the routines you want but if the chemicals are not balanced in your brain you're still not going to be happy. As far as OCD is concerned, it honestly depends on the serverity of the illness. Frankly I know from my own experience, that if the degree of the illness is severe, you cannot change things enough to truely make a difference.

you cant "snap out" of clinical depression just situational depression. but therapy will help with that, as well for ocd and anxiety. they'll still be there but not as severe as they are now. look into therapy because the medication only masks the problems

 

[[email protected]]

OCD OCD OCD <three times! >

I have OCD and Bi-Polar and took Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, Seroquel, and many others in cocktails. Prozac was the worst for eating. I put on about 20 pounds by stuffing calzones in my face constantly. Because you feel so dam complacent you really don’t care that your gut is getting bigger. These drugs do have “liver” stamped all over the warning labels but as long as you are not taking the first generation drugs from the 70s (Thorazine) you should be OK. They really don’t do a number on the liver like everyone states they do.

I have a full bottle of Celexa right here. Took a few and was pretty much fed up with the pill bullshit. I was up to 90Mg of Prozac, 150 Effexor, 50mg Seroquel, and Clopamine. My dick was as limp as the economy. I should have been in a coma but I was pinned all damn day. I gave up on the pills and have weaned down to 75Mg of Effexor. Serouquel is pretty cool! You take 25-50mg and 20 min. later you are asleep! The effect never wears off so you don’t get resistant to it. The OCD is pretty much OCPD because unlike OCD I don’t feel shame about the strange things I do. I find them pretty amusing at times because you DO realize you are doing some strange things. Nights are the worst with the racing thoughts and anxiety that you are not going to fall asleep in time (anyone else have that one too?).

People with OCD are ALWAYS playing with their medication. Taking a few grains out of the capsule at a time. Just doing really exotic things. I have read every paper on every drug to death with the ones I was on. Something someone with OCD should never do because by the end of the day you are convinced you are going to die of liver cancer and have a stroke.

I really think the OCD and Bi-Polar has given me a unique balance. I am fully functional but very “eccentric”. I am also going to juice.

Now from someone else with OCD to another with OCD. Make it work for you and not against you. In the gym I HAVE to do X Y and Z. Have to get that weight up X times or I’ll; just have to do it again from the start. I have to be there every morning no matter what!

Only people with OCD really understand it and know what the “urges” really feel like. Know the buildup and the release that giving into them is. Don’t fight it but use it! I drove myself crazy checking the stove (gas leaks! Will kill you in your sleep J ). Now I am pretty much to the point where I am like “fuck it, kill me!”.

Final word. They are not that bad on the liver. OCD can be good and bad. Just try to make it work FOR you and not against you. You are going to have OCD for a looooong time, no matter what the medication manufactures and doctors tell you.

 

[Zyglamail]

Dude, that wagon analogy was priceless. I had no idea what you were talking about since I got really side-tracked when you mentioned the horsies. Naaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....Sorry. There is little point arguing it since neither of us can prove our points. Nevertheless I will ask if you have ever been diagnosed with any such disorders?

I was suffering depression for many years and didnt even realize it. It wasnt until a divorce nearly pushed me to suicide that I realized my problem had been going on for so long. I was on meds for a while while I dove into reevaluating my life and my emoitional standpoint, why I felt the way I did etc. It wasnt a quick "anap out of it" but a couple of years of hard work and paying attention to all the details of how/when/why i responded to situations the way I did. Everytime something came up, I had to get out of the wagon and hoist its wheels out of the ruts to consiously change my path for a different outcome.

As for an actual chemical imbalance, how can some people nearly stop their heart? Other endure severe torture and pain that would drive most into shock? How about those that can decrease/increase bloodflow to certian areas of their body? Is there is a chemical imbalance for some people, im sure there is, but I also beleive where there is a will there is a way. Thoughts an emotions manifest themselves in physical means all the time. Nervousnous can lead to increased heart rate, sweating etc. The mind is powerfull thing and anxiety and such can even bring on disorders of the skin and what not so for those of you who say you cant get better because of a chemical imbalance, I feel sorry ffor you, but wish you the best.

[email protected], before you use the "I was on them so they arent liver toxic" example spend some time on medline.

 

[[email protected]]

How about “not as toxic”. Products like Thorazine (sp?) and Lipitor (cholesterol) require that you get a liver check every three weeks. Now that IS a red flag. Products like Prozac and Effexor do not. Will it stress the liver? That is just as subjective as asking if a beer will also stress the liver. Yes, they both will but what is the range of normal stress.

I would opt not to be on any of these meds during a cycle. I am nearly weaned off all the meds as we speak. I’m more edgy, anxious, and paranoid and expect that to increase with AAS. But I have never lost control. Even with the use of AAS I plan to use this “energy” and redirect it into my workouts.

The quote is actually : They really don’t do a number on the liver like everyone states they do.

Which I still hold to. This is not from personal experience but from “obsessively” reading on the subject. Depending on who did the testing and for what end result you will find many variations in conclusions based on personal interest.

 

[Triple J]

I would not want to treat depression with nutrition alone, but please be sure to make sure your brain is getting all the nutritional support it needs.

For instance, the reason one needs to be careful with Tryptophan while on SSRI is because they are a direct precursor to Serotonin. Thus with the SSRIs comes the potential risk of too much Serotonin resulting from concentrated intake of tryptophan. Similiarly, nutritional items such as Tyrosine, Phenalinine, DMAE, B6, C, Glutamine, all play important roles as neurotransmitter precursors or are required for metabolism of neurotranmistters.

Also the brain requires significant amounts of the fatty acid DHA, the best source being cold water fish like Salmon or high-grade fish oil.

Drugs like Welbrutin and Deprenyl limit dopamine breakdown or re-uptake, thus they work on a different neurotransmitter system than the SSRI. The dopamine pathway is more responsible for drive and motivation, which becomes lacking with the SSRIs.

So it is wise to be mindful of nutritonal needs when trying to wean oneself from the drugs, while addressing underlying life issues through assessment and counseling. And one should avoid AS when having these problems because they will mess with the neurotransmitter levels and balances, particularly through dopamine which increases with androgen levels (and correspondingly crashes when androgens fall again).

Although Deprenyl is a mild drug which can be used for life extension purposes, if not contraindicated.

 

[marky]

Hey Zyg, I respect your juice knowledge very much

but you situation is different regarding chemical imbalances. Not everyone has several years of therapy time to get their life together (if at all). I agonized with therapy for 2.5 years with no progress till Imipramine simple stopped the BS. Thats it. Got on with life have my one business and am very happy with life and able to confront the stresses and difficulties of life. No amount of therapy on this earth could have helped me, in fact it created neurosises and problems that were not even there. I resented being plugged with psycho problems that were not even there.
The moment the imbalance was adjusted all the worries and paranoias became non existant. Point in case. My brother is very different from me in many ways and he makes 160K a year while on a med program to correct his imbalance. Without this med he would never have married, become a corperate exec, had 2 wonderful sons whom I love dearly. He would be in an institution. Am I getting thru?? Ive been free 17 years my brother 16 years.

 

[Gman]

I was definetely chemically imbalanced.. I think I have always had OCD and some mild form of depression.. but honestly I think juice and some heavy weeks of taking g trigged a rare but very bad episode for me.. so bad I actually went to see a shrink. Ironically I did a lot of the same in the years previous (juice and g) and that never happened to me.. i wonder.. I don't do drugs of any sort any longer, frankly I can't take they anxiety they create. Whether or not I will ever use juice again remains to be seen. I have to first conquer these mental problems before I could ever consider it again.. and at this point I think I would be paranoid that this would happen again.. so.. I don't know. Right now I have to get myself back into a position just to be able to lift regularly again.. then start taking supplements.. see where it goes from there.

Hey my doc suggested I go on Wellbutrin in additon to my Celexa for the sexual sides.. has anyone ever tried this combination? Anyone care to comment about whether it will give me more motivation?

This board has always been a great source of information for me - though it mainly focuses around steroids, it always has invaluable amounts of information on training, and supplements. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread!

Gman

 

[[email protected]]

GMAN

The sexual side effects fade. They never totally disappear. They are “manageable”. There are a few out there that make it impossible to finish off. Solo, with help from her, or over a span of hours. You want blue balls try some of the anxiety only pills. Forgot the name. It was a little pink bastard that started with a C.

My doc told me that Celexa is like Prozac without the side effects. Whatever you do don’t let them give you Effexor. It sounds great on paper but coming down from 300mg and finally weaned off for 2 days total I feel like a bag of shit. This one is very addictive and withdrawal is a horror.

OCD seems to be the thing to diagnose these days. Get a second opinion even thought the meds are pretty much the same. It could be OCPD and not OCD or a combo. If you are pissed that you keep on flicking the light 60 times until it feels just right then it’s OCD. If it’s just quirky behavior that you do but really don’t mind then it may be OCPD. If you are a Jekel and Hyde then you may want to look at bi-polar. Speaking from experience I have all three with rapid cycling. No fun!!!

To summarize. Take the Celexa and see if you really need the other drugs. Try to let your body adapt to them. By all means if you are having problems see your doc ASAP. If the pills start fucking with your head (they can and they did to me once) don’t be embarrassed to walk into the hospital and tell them that you are on whatever pills and you feel “strange”. You are playing chemist with your head. There is no need to suffer day in and day out. But these pills will take something out of you.

Hope this helped a little. I’ve been fighting this shit for years.

One thing I did notice. Is it me, or are many guys who are into juice and the gym a little on the “I need psychotic medication” side. Hey! Birds of a feather! Makes me feel right at home!

If you need a 1 on 1 just drop me an e-mail. This shit can be a bitch to get through. In the subject just cap lock on and shout at me. I delete tons of spam so make it stand out.

Rob

 

[nice6pac]

The docs are most often idiots, is ay this from experience, its easy to fake not being a disorder trust me on this one, also why is everyone so depressed allof teh sudden it sjsut pops up its alled drug makers makgin a fast buck, i would jsut use l-tryptophan to avoid insuracne problems as its hard to get new insurnace if you ahve medicla conditions