no wonder iraqis hate us

[buddy28]

Please post valid statistics indicating the total number of Iraqi child deaths caused by US led economic sanctions levied against Iraq after the conclusion of the Gulf War.

Bolix gave me a link to a Guardian newspaper article suggesting actual Iraqi child malnutrition deaths due to US imposed economic sanctions were less then previously estimated due to Iraqi Government embellishment of child malnutrition mortality rates to encourage global opposition to US led Iraqi economic sanctions.

So instead of 900,000 Iraqi child deaths, perhaps its something like 300,000 - 400,000 Iraqi child deaths. Whoop de doo.


The United States has played a large role in the genesis of this whole 'Iraq Problem'. So please spare me the blind US war rhetoric of defenders of justice and the free world. How was the US Government defending the free world when it stood idly by as their admitted ally, Saddam Huessien, gassed thousands of his own people with chemical and biological agents supplied to him by the US Government?

Was the brutal suppression of Iranian anti American sentiment even necessary to ensure short term US domestic national security objectives? Not even close.

The US just wanted to throw their fucking weight around and show the Arabs they wernt going to be fucked with. Justly or unjustly. And how many Iranians had to die under the Shaw so the American Government could courageously display its magnanimous will? More killed then in the Pentagon and WTC terrorist attacks. But who cares, right?! They're arabs!!

The US Government has and will continue to be purveyors of national dictatorships, tyrannical rulers, and terrorist factions just as long as it ensures its citizens the ability to wave their flags blindly and pat themselves on the back for being part of such a noble country. And sometimes their motivations arnt even that virtuous. Sometimes the US Government maliciously intervenes in foreign Government affairs, often at the expense of innocent foreign life, to send a message to foreign Governments not to fuck with US Corporate interests. pathetic.

US Government arrogance is going to get us all fucking killed.

how?

Propping up nondemocratically elected Pro American dictators in any country only polarizes nationalistic sentiment in the citizenry and national political opposition groups. Throw into the mix the religion card to unite the predominately Middle Eastern Muslim nations whom the American Government has maliciously meddled in the political affairs of, and you've got a real fucking problem.

Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran, Iraq.......


oh and heres an idea. Why don't we all unconditionally support the blood thirsty Israeli Jews in their conquest of the indigenous Israeli Palestinian population so we can further confirm the prevalent Muslim perception of Americans as biased, arrogant, glutenous war mongers who are incapable of compromise and developing an empathetic respect for foriegn cultures and religions.

Middle Eastern Muslim nations will eventually cooperativily retaliate against America and Israel because their affairs are being maliciously manipulated by an outside aggressor ( the US Government), and because the Koran, their BIBLE, admonishes them to attack any entity which threatens the integrity of their beleifs and way of life. Jihad. Holy War.


If the Soviets propped up an nondemocratically elected US President which served Soviet interests before your own needs, and the needs of your fellow country men, you wouldn't be calling for blood???!?

Hypocrites.

 

[KAYNE]

and i don't leave becuase it is a relatively free country. If you dont like that, that people can have their own opinions, why dont you leave? People are free to have opinions you dont agree with in america.

I'M NOT THE ONE BITCHING ABOUT AMERICA BEING SO BAD. THATS WHY I DONT LEAVE. YOU CAN HAVE YOUR OPINION (AS YOU PREVIOUSLY STATED IT). HOWEVER, YOUR OPINION IS ALWAYS NEGATIVE WHICH BRINGS US BACK TO THAT OLD ADDAGE AGAIN. WHY ARE (WERE) YOU ANTI-AMERICAN? WHERE ELSE CAN YOU GO TO ENJOY THE FREEDOMS THAT YOU HAVE HERE. EVEN THOUGH IT IS KINDA FUCKED UP, I'M SURE ESLEWHERE IS WORSE.

AS FOR THE PROPAGANDA, I ONLY HAVE ONE THING TO SAY ABOUT THAT: DO YOU NOT THINK THAT THE IRAQIS ARE NOT BEING EXPOSED TO PROPAGANDA ABOUT AMERICANS!!!???


KAYNE

 

[minion]

Please post valid statistics indicating the total number of Iraqi child deaths caused by US led economic sanctions levied against Iraq after the conclusion of the Gulf War.

Bolix gave me a link to a Guardian newspaper article suggesting actual Iraqi child malnutrition deaths due to US imposed economic sanctions were less then previously estimated due to Iraqi Government embellishment of child malnutrition mortality rates to encourage global opposition to US led Iraqi economic sanctions.

So instead of 900,000 Iraqi child deaths, perhaps its something like 300,000 - 400,000 Iraqi child deaths. Whoop de doo.


The United States has played a large role in the genesis of this whole 'Iraq Problem'. So please spare me the blind US war rhetoric of defenders of justice and the free world. How was the US Government defending the free world when it stood idly by as their admitted ally, Saddam Huessien, gassed thousands of his own people with chemical and biological agents supplied to him by the US Government?

Was the brutal suppression of Iranian anti American sentiment even necessary to ensure short term US domestic national security objectives? Not even close.

The US just wanted to throw their fucking weight around and show the Arabs they wernt going to be fucked with. Justly or unjustly. And how many Iranians had to die under the Shaw so the American Government could courageously display its magnanimous will? More killed then in the Pentagon and WTC terrorist attacks. But who cares, right?! They're arabs!!

The US Government has and will continue to be purveyors of national dictatorships, tyrannical rulers, and terrorist factions just as long as it ensures its citizens the ability to wave their flags blindly and pat themselves on the back for being part of such a noble country. And sometimes their motivations arnt even that virtuous. Sometimes the US Government maliciously intervenes in foreign Government affairs, often at the expense of innocent foreign life, to send a message to foreign Governments not to fuck with US Corporate interests. pathetic.

US Government arrogance is going to get us all fucking killed.

how?

Propping up nondemocratically elected Pro American dictators in any country only polarizes nationalistic sentiment in the citizenry and national political opposition groups. Throw into the mix the religion card to unite the predominately Middle Eastern Muslim nations whom the American Government has maliciously meddled in the political affairs of, and you've got a real fucking problem.

Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran, Iraq.......


oh and heres an idea. Why don't we all unconditionally support the blood thirsty Israeli Jews in their conquest of the indigenous Israeli Palestinian population so we can further confirm the prevalent Muslim perception of Americans as biased, arrogant, glutenous war mongers who are incapable of compromise and developing an empathetic respect for foriegn cultures and religions.

Middle Eastern Muslim nations will eventually cooperativily retaliate against America and Israel because their affairs are being maliciously manipulated by an outside aggressor ( the US Government), and because the Koran, their BIBLE, admonishes them to attack any entity which threatens the integrity of their beleifs and way of life. Jihad. Holy War.


If the Soviets propped up an nondemocratically elected US President which served Soviet interests before your own needs, and the needs of your fellow country men, you wouldn't be calling for blood???!?

Hypocrites.

There is some truth to this, marginal at best. No one should be surprised.
Its easy to be an arm chair quarter back.

My perspective on the matter is, we may be in too deep. Who is right or wrong is inapplicable at this stage for all practicle purposes.

 

[Lao Tzu]

I'M NOT THE ONE BITCHING ABOUT AMERICA BEING SO BAD. THATS WHY I DONT LEAVE. YOU CAN HAVE YOUR OPINION (AS YOU PREVIOUSLY STATED IT). HOWEVER, YOUR OPINION IS ALWAYS NEGATIVE WHICH BRINGS US BACK TO THAT OLD ADDAGE AGAIN. WHY ARE (WERE) YOU ANTI-AMERICAN? WHERE ELSE CAN YOU GO TO ENJOY THE FREEDOMS THAT YOU HAVE HERE. EVEN THOUGH IT IS KINDA FUCKED UP, I'M SURE ESLEWHERE IS WORSE.

2. AS FOR THE PROPAGANDA, I ONLY HAVE ONE THING TO SAY ABOUT THAT: DO YOU NOT THINK THAT THE IRAQIS ARE NOT BEING EXPOSED TO PROPAGANDA ABOUT AMERICANS!!!???


KAYNE

muhahahahaha. I can fuck with your emotions on the drop of a hat. I think i've found a new hobby while i waste my life away on E.F.


Imagine you are an iraqi, you know full well about the deaths by sanctions and depleted uranium, but you have never, ever, heard of the gassing of the kurds. Then pretend you saw american media outlets (CNN, ABC, etc), where stories like the gassing of the kurds are pretty common. It would be a shock, no? going your whole life being in the dark about the bad things of your country. It is the same way here, in order to get a more thorough opinion, you have to read both sides of the issue. A person who has never been exposed to the Iraqi p.o.v. hasn't really viewed the issue in its entirety.

Actually, most of the 1st world is relatively free at this point (thank god).

I stated before, and i was honest, that i used to be indoctrinated with left wing propaganda which is generally designed to make USA out to be a repressor of the world at large. I was a heavy chomsky reader, and all the 1 sided info created a severe bias in me. but that ended over 7 months ago due to the fact that independent research on my part showed most of the info was 1 sided, i have become much more moderate.

2. Yes, thats why i said in my original post 'but what blatant propaganda that iraq shit is.', because it was obvious it was designed to incite rage and disgust over the enemy (the same way we in america use the treatment of women in afghanistan to incite rage in us against the afghanis). We are both (us & the iraqis) exposed to 1 sided propaganda designed to close our minds and make us hate the enemy. Which is why i looked at iraqi websites. You may think you know the mentality behind WW2, but until you look at everyones propaganda, then decide for yourself what is going on, you are just being mind fucked by the powers that be. In WW2, millions of allies thought they were the ones being attacked by an evil country with evil intentions, and the axis thought they were the ones being attacked by an evil country with evil intentions. If they had been exposed to each others media coverate, psychological battles for the minds of men, and biased viewpoints they would have had more informed, independent decisions.

I wish i could find some soviet cold war propaganda, that would be a nice read. Did you know that in China, about 60 years ago, it wasn't uncommon for family members to beat other family members to death if they were capitalist? here in america, you could have lost your job & life for being communist. I've been exposed to the capitalist propganda, so the communist propaganda should provide a counterbalance.

 

[dballer]

muhahahahaha. I can fuck with your emotions on the drop of a hat. I think i've found a new hobby while i waste my life away on E.F.


Imagine you are an iraqi, you know full well about the deaths by sanctions and depleted uranium, but you have never, ever, heard of the gassing of the kurds. Then pretend you saw american media outlets (CNN, ABC, etc), where stories like the gassing of the kurds are pretty common. It would be a shock, no? going your whole life being in the dark about the bad things of your country. It is the same way here, in order to get a more thorough opinion, you have to read both sides of the issue. A person who has never been exposed to the Iraqi p.o.v. hasn't really viewed the issue in its entirety.

Actually, most of the 1st world is relatively free at this point (thank god).

I stated before, and i was honest, that i used to be indoctrinated with left wing propaganda which is generally designed to make USA out to be a repressor of the world at large. I was a heavy chomsky reader, and all the 1 sided info created a severe bias in me. but that ended over 7 months ago due to the fact that independent research on my part showed most of the info was 1 sided, i have become much more moderate.

2. Yes, thats why i said in my original post 'but what blatant propaganda that iraq shit is.', because it was obvious it was designed to incite rage and disgust over the enemy (the same way we in america use the treatment of women in afghanistan to incite rage in us against the afghanis). We are both (us & the iraqis) exposed to 1 sided propaganda designed to close our minds and make us hate the enemy. Which is why i looked at iraqi websites. You may think you know the mentality behind WW2, but until you look at everyones propaganda, then decide for yourself what is going on, you are just being mind fucked by the powers that be. In WW2, millions of allies thought they were the ones being attacked by an evil country with evil intentions, and the axis thought they were the ones being attacked by an evil country with evil intentions. If they had been exposed to each others media coverate, psychological battles for the minds of men, and biased viewpoints they would have had more informed, independent decisions.

I wish i could find some soviet cold war propaganda, that would be a nice read. Did you know that in China, about 60 years ago, it wasn't uncommon for family members to beat other family members to death if they were capitalist? here in america, you could have lost your job & life for being communist. I've been exposed to the capitalist propganda, so the communist propaganda should provide a counterbalance.

BRAVO!!!!!

good post Nord.. this is what I am talking about.

you used to be left wing until you did a little research. I used to be conservative.. until I found out that they are doing nothing but scratching the belly of the beast. Don't get me wrong.. I am still sided with the right wing.. but I have come to despise marxits/communist with a passion.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Please post valid statistics indicating the total number of Iraqi child deaths caused by US led economic sanctions levied against Iraq after the conclusion of the Gulf War.

Bolix gave me a link to a Guardian newspaper article suggesting actual Iraqi child malnutrition deaths due to US imposed economic sanctions were less then previously estimated due to Iraqi Government embellishment of child malnutrition mortality rates to encourage global opposition to US led Iraqi economic sanctions.

So instead of 900,000 Iraqi child deaths, perhaps its something like 300,000 - 400,000 Iraqi child deaths. Whoop de doo.


The United States has played a large role in the genesis of this whole 'Iraq Problem'. So please spare me the blind US war rhetoric of defenders of justice and the free world. How was the US Government defending the free world when it stood idly by as their admitted ally, Saddam Huessien, gassed thousands of his own people with chemical and biological agents supplied to him by the US Government?

Was the brutal suppression of Iranian anti American sentiment even necessary to ensure short term US domestic national security objectives? Not even close.

The US just wanted to throw their fucking weight around and show the Arabs they wernt going to be fucked with. Justly or unjustly. And how many Iranians had to die under the Shaw so the American Government could courageously display its magnanimous will? More killed then in the Pentagon and WTC terrorist attacks. But who cares, right?! They're arabs!!

The US Government has and will continue to be purveyors of national dictatorships, tyrannical rulers, and terrorist factions just as long as it ensures its citizens the ability to wave their flags blindly and pat themselves on the back for being part of such a noble country. And sometimes their motivations arnt even that virtuous. Sometimes the US Government maliciously intervenes in foreign Government affairs, often at the expense of innocent foreign life, to send a message to foreign Governments not to fuck with US Corporate interests. pathetic.

US Government arrogance is going to get us all fucking killed.

how?

Propping up nondemocratically elected Pro American dictators in any country only polarizes nationalistic sentiment in the citizenry and national political opposition groups. Throw into the mix the religion card to unite the predominately Middle Eastern Muslim nations whom the American Government has maliciously meddled in the political affairs of, and you've got a real fucking problem.

Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran, Iraq.......


oh and heres an idea. Why don't we all unconditionally support the blood thirsty Israeli Jews in their conquest of the indigenous Israeli Palestinian population so we can further confirm the prevalent Muslim perception of Americans as biased, arrogant, glutenous war mongers who are incapable of compromise and developing an empathetic respect for foriegn cultures and religions.

Middle Eastern Muslim nations will eventually cooperativily retaliate against America and Israel because their affairs are being maliciously manipulated by an outside aggressor ( the US Government), and because the Koran, their BIBLE, admonishes them to attack any entity which threatens the integrity of their beleifs and way of life. Jihad. Holy War.


If the Soviets propped up an nondemocratically elected US President which served Soviet interests before your own needs, and the needs of your fellow country men, you wouldn't be calling for blood???!?

Hypocrites.

I agree with alot of what you said, every country manages to ignore the deaths of the enemy (in black hawk down, 1000 or so somalis died, but 18 americans died. No concern was or will be expressed for the somalis), but every country does that. In the Iran-Iraq war, i doubt iran gave a shit about iraq casualites, and i doubt iraq cared about iran casualities. People are generally nationalistically elitist. In the end, America is no more evil than most of the countries on earth.

The part about sanctions isn't really fair though. All Saddam has to do is let the U.N. prove to itself that he isn't trying to develop nuclear/chemical/biological weapons and the sanctions will be lifted. And he wont do it.

Also, the iraqis are allowed to import food & medicine under the oil for food program.

http://www.terrorismanswers.com/causes/iraq.html

Richard Garfield, a Columbia University professor who studies how economic sanctions affect public health, estimates that about 350,000 more Iraqi children under the age of five died in the 1990s than would have died without the U.N. sanctions in place. On the other hand, in northern Iraq, where the United Nations supervises the distribution of goods from the oil-for-food program, infant mortality rates have fallen below pre-Gulf War levels.


If you read that carefully, it states that, even under the sanctions, when the U.N. is responsible for distributing humanitarian aid the infant mortality rate stays level or goes down. When Iraq is responsible, it shoots up.

In the end, Saddam is responsible for this. he chooses not to do what it takes to remove the sanctions, and he chooses to squander/misuse humanitarian aid. In northern Iraq, where distibution of food & medicine is controlled by the U.N., infant mortality has gone down to pre-gulf war levels. several websites will confirm this fact.

 

[Spiral Traveller]

I say F**C all the dumb shit! It was Saudis that bombed the world trade center, so we should nuke MECCA! That would put a big hurt on those dune coons. We got to play their game: Hit things that means alot to the enemy. And they ARE the enemy.

 

[dballer]

I say F**C all the dumb shit! It was Saudis that bombed the world trade center! So we should nuke MECCA! That would put a big hurt on those camel-jacker bastards. We got to play their game: Hit things that means alot to the enemy. And they ARE the enemy.

I made that same quote once.. but then I asked myself why did they do it? I mean.. lets make sure it does not happen again?? You gotta ask why they did it..

 

[Spiral Traveller]

I made that same quote once.. but then I asked myself why did they do it? I mean.. lets make sure it does not happen again?? You gotta ask why they did it..

The stated reason for the killing of over three thousand civilians is ostensibly because we have troops in Saudi Arabia, and because we support Israel. Well, I'm sorry, neither of those constitute a gross injustice to me. (Hell, I'm glad we support Israel, and I think we should attack Saudi Arabia!) Even if they did, the terrorists, if they are sane at all, should have know that this sort of activity could never help them achieve their goals, which makes the attack an act of pure spite.

But that doesn't even matter, IMO. The deed is DONE. All we can do now is hit them back... and the more violent our counter-attack, the better!

 

[beefybull]

Do you really think your lives will change after the US invade Iraq ?........

Cheaper gas maybe, haha.