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Newbies Read This Before Posting!

  • Thread starter Thread starter kronk
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kronk

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Ok, well after reading many newbie’s post, I thought I'd put together a list of helpful tips (some I wrote, others I have gathered over time and had saved when I was a newbie) and information that every newbie should read before doing anything at all. If you are new to AS, please take the time to read this post before posting any questions on the board at all.

We were all new to juice once and I know where you are coming from. I can see inside you head and know that you want to get big fast, but if you don’t take the time to do research and plan things out, you will be heading for some major problems, some could even end your life.

First things first. Before you do anything at all, do your RESEARCH! Don't start putting things into your body and sticking yourself with needles until you have a COMPLETE understanding of what it is that you are putting in you. You need to know how it’s going to affect you and what if any side effects there are.

DO THIS RESEARCH BY USING THE SEARCH ENGINE. DONT START ASKING QUESTIONS UNTIL YOU HAVE THOURGHLY SEARCHED THE SITE AND LOOKED FOR ALL POSSIBLE ANSWERS. ODDS ARE YOU WILL FIND WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.

ALSO IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON IP PLEASE DO SEARCHES. THERE ARE MORE THREAD ON IP THAN ON ANYTHING ON THIS BOARD SO DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE YOU ASK ANY QUESTIONS.

DONT BE AFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS AFTER DOING YOUR REASEARCE. ALSO THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A STUPID QUESTION, ONLY A STUPID ANSWER! SO NEVER BE SCARED TO ASK ANYTHING AT ALL!

NEVER, openly post asking others to email you with a source or asking anyone for a source. That is just asking to be scammed and to loose your cash. There are tons of scammers just waiting for a post like this so they can PM you and tell you they can hook you up. Then you send your money and you never hear from them again. After you are around for a while and you start to know people you will find what you are looking for. Maybe not at this board, but they are out there.

Once you have figured out your cycle (I have included a sample first cycle below), Its time to make sure that you have everything that you need. It is vital that when starting your cycle you have all the equipment, gear and post cycle therapy products in place. AGAIN, you must have these in place PRIOR to starting your cycle. Make sure that you have your anti estrogens as well to combat any gyno issues that come up. I cant even count the number of times I have seen good bros go all the way through a cycle, then loose their gains cause they forgot clomid. That or their nuts are so shrunken up and they don’t come back cause they were not prepared. Then there are they guys that end up getting (bitch tits) gyno, cause they can’t get their nova on short notice.

Remember, if you wait to buy this stuff till you need it, it may be to late! Don’t be a dumbass, prepare and have everything in hand. I have given examples on how to do your clomid as well, in the sample cycle below.

____________________________________________________

SAMPLE FIRST CYCLE

Deca 400mg a week (split in two shots of 200mg a piece)
Test 500mg a week (split in two shots of 250mg a piece).

Injections twice a week on Mon and Thurs. Draw the Test in first, and then follow with the Deca. This will help ease any pain associated with the test.

Run this for 8-10 weeks. I say 10 weeks because the gear will not kick in for about 4 weeks, so don’t expect to see much happen till then.

2 weeks after your last shot, start your clomid therapy. Do as follows:

50mg ed for the first week, 100mg ed for the second week, then 50mg a week for a third week.

This will help your nuts to start making test again, and will also help you keep your gains.
____________________________________________________
INJECTION TIPS

Ok. So you need to make sure that you have your needles and syringes. You will want to get around a 22 gauge with a 1 1/2 inch needle. I suggest you get a 5cc syringe as it gives you more to hold on to when injecting. Make sure you have enough of these for all your injections BEFORE you start. Don’t run out and not be able to take your inject.

Here is how you should inject.

First off, you will want to inject into the upper corner of your glute. Imagine a line running up and down on your ass crack, and then draw another line across the middle of your butt. Aim for the upper corner on either side of you ass. You will need to prep the area with some rubbing alcohol as well. Make sure everything is very clean. Here is a breakdown:

1. Draw your gear in the syringe with a new needle.
2. Replace the needle with a fresh one prior to inject.
3. Squeeze out the air bubbles
4. Clean the injection site with rubbing alcohol.
5. Slowly stick the needle inside of your glute.
6. Aspirate (pull the plunger back to see if any blood comes back, if so you hit a vein. Remove needle and start over) If no blood you didn't hit a vein, and keep going.
7. Squeeze the syringe very slowly. Take your time to inject, the slower you go, the less pain there will be. Pull the needle out when done.
8. Clean off area again with alcohol.

To deal with some more painful gear, now is a good time for a light massage and if possible, stick your butt on a heating pad for about 10 mins. This will help with the pain. You can also run your syringe under hot tap water for about 60 seconds (with the gear in it) before you inject. This makes the oil easier to inject and disperse when it is inside you. I have also included some other ways to lessen the pain. Please see below:

Most of the pain you goes in certain AS (Ttokkyo/IP etc.)is due to the high BA (benzyl alcohol) content. Hopefully one of these will help allot of you bro's out.

1. Try mixing the painful to inject steroid with one that is not painful to inject. Such as Ttokkyo's Sust mixed with Deca. Or Prop with EQ. There are many combos but you get the idea. This somewhat dilutes the overall BA content. Its like not being able to drink vodka straight, but mix it with some orange juice and you can drink tons of it without any problems. This is nothing new; most of you already know this.

2. Try applying a heat pad over the injection area for 10 min directly after you inject. A light massage during this time will help as well. Some guys like to rub on some icy hot at this point, I do this and it really works.

3. Try baking your vials to reduce BA levels. Here is how you do it. Preheat your oven to 250 degrees. Place a cookie sheet in the middle rack. Take a small gauge needle such as 25g and stick it in the vial. Do not put the tip of the needle into the oil; leave it just above the oil. Stand the vial up in the middle of the cookie sheet and let it bake for 15 minutes. Take it out let it cool and repeat this once more. While it’s baking the BA will vaporize and exit via the needle. This will greatly reduce the BA content and should result in a less painful shot. You might loss an ml after it’s all done but not much.

4. Try using sterile water to take the BA out. Buy some sterile water, bacteriostatic
water. You also need a 5ml syringe. The day before your shot mix 1ml of the painful steroid with 2ml of the water in the 5ml syringe. Pull back the plunger and shake hard for one minute. Let it sit overnight with the cap on the needle of course. Right before your ready to shoot it point the needle down, the BA will be mixed with the water and then you just shoot out the BA/water mix. You will have pure oil/steroid left. Do this all at a cool room temp, heat and steroids without any BA don’t mix. What will be left will be a thick oil so use the proper gauge needle such as 23.

If none of the above work, or a mixture of several of the above doesn’t work then send me your gear for free disposal! I will be happy to take it off your hands, DONT THROW IT AWAY!

Other tips:

Try and keep your cardio to a minimum if any at all, but if you do cardio keep it to non-lifting days. Training should be heavy, but the thought of coming off gear should be with you so you should have a plan that understands that when you come off strength will come down some.

Now some guys ask me "what is the most effective diet on this type of cycle?". Well as many can attest, a bulk cycle's goal is to put on WEIGHT and increase strength along with overall musculature, so why would you eat like a pussy? Common sense and the experience of others should have dictated to you that to
get big you have to EAT BIG! for example if you are 6ft 200lb's I would recommend consuming 350grams of protein and 5000 total calories per day. To make this easy we have supplements Such as Nlarge-2 or whatever else your pallette desires....of course these supplements make consuming such a large caloric amount a lot easier, however, REAL FOOD should be a REAL priority. Steak, Chicken, Whole eggs, Tuna, Cottage cheese (glutamine rich) etc.

Other things that make your cycle more effective is having a good supporting cast of OTC supplements. Creatine at 10mg/day will be a great benefit in utilizing that water retained to hydrate muscles on a cellular basis. Glutamine will support anticatabolic actions and increase cell volume at 20grams/day. Always protect your liver with MILKTHISTLE ( Silymarin) or Liv 52, however I like Tyler’s the best! Primrose oil caps have also been used for liver health and also provide a good source of EFA's. Vitamin B-5 will be helpful to combat acne if you’re prone, 5 grams per day will suffice. Nizoral shampoo 2% might be a good idea if your worried about hair thinning, it works as an antifungal and clears DHT from follicles, this maybe used in conjunction with OTC rogaine 5% which also works as a mild DHT inhibitor. Some even stack those with the herb saw palmetto which is said to have an effect on the binding abilities of DHT.

Does this sound like allot? Well its really not considering your protecting yourself on an internal and external level. Plan every meal, every workout and leave nothing unplanned. Keep a training and a nutrition journal so you can keep track of progress. Weigh yourself every Sunday, this should motivate you to kick ass during the week. Keep negative people away from you!!! Keep the brothers on the board in the loop for positive reinforcements and support. If you slip don’t give up, just start the next day with a new outlook.

Hope this helps some of you out. Now get out there and get HUGE!!

Kronk
 
A big bump for the man with A FINE ASS WOMAN.....Make this a sticky for a while....Newbies need to know this stuff...Thanks Kronk...
 
Well since your woman has nothing to do with this post, I will just bump for some good information.
 
HAHA, its rare that my women doesnt have anything to do with my posts! LOL Muscleup, kronkette says to say thanks for the words!

I think we should make this a sticky (or something else like it).
 
Everything looks pretty good on this post(fine job btw) but I always thought the clomid therapy is as follows. 300mg the first day then 100mgs/day for 7 days and then 50mgs/ day for the last seven days.
 
bump it up. Great post Kronk.
Your post didnt tell them about water though. How much a day do you suggest? and what about a post cycle OTC supps? just wondering. NOT FLAMING AT ALL!!
 
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Buffalo Joe said:
bump it up. Great post Kronk.
Your post didnt tell them about water though. How much a day do you suggest? and what about a post cycle OTC supps? just wondering. NOT FLAMING AT ALL!!

Great point Buffalo!! I am working on a bunch of other stuff to put here as well as some improved injection tips. I will post a bunch of new stuff here including the water information and post cycle supps. Thats important stuff to know!
 
Good post......speaking on behalf of all newbies.

One quick tip that might also help. Take a hot shower or bath before injection. Helps loosen the muscle.
 
muscleup said:
A big bump for the man with A FINE ASS WOMAN.....Make this a sticky for a while....Newbies need to know this stuff...Thanks Kronk...

thanks sweetheart! wait till you see the pics coming in a few weeks!!! it will be kronk, kronkette, pauly and azia!

i am working on one of these for the womens board as well. kronk is getting a lot more information that he is going to update her also...i would suggest that everyone add to this and use these threads as "info sharing" threads! see ya sweetie!
 
Kronkette,

i know seeing you twice is great honor for all of us but ........ the same post? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA good to see you on here. Hope that we will be seeing more of you in the near future and Great Avatar
 
Buffalo Joe said:
Kronkette,

i know seeing you twice is great honor for all of us but ........ the same post? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA good to see you on here. Hope that we will be seeing more of you in the near future and Great Avatar

Oops! cant believe that i posted that twice..yikes!! i deleted it! thanks for catching that...and thanks for the comments!!!:D
 
compliments??? just staing the facts that you are a hottie. My dream date.... Me you & Nat WOW!!!!!!!! you and Nat have got great bodies. The 2 of you together would probably kill an ordinary man though. but that is a risk i would take. Anyway. Kronk again thanks for the great post and will look forward to your ideas for post cycle, Bridging and Water intake.
 
I'll say it one more time, great fucking post. I'm new to the board, I repect you vets of the boards, love learning as much as I can. For the handful guys like me, how many won't even bother to read this, then ask for the same damn info two days later. It's just kinda sad, but to each his own. Later Bro's. Live hard, Lift Harder.
 
No offense, but roids is the wussy way out

I know that you said that everyone wants to get big fast, and that's 100% true in most cases. You even took your time to jot down a decent cycle that will allow people out there to get big. You posted some good information, but the only thing I would applaude you for is the fact that you you listed some side effects and dangers of steroid use. I am new to the board, but have been working out most of my teenage years. I know you might take offense to this, but in my opinion any form of roid supplementation, legal or illegal, is a waste of money and the health risks are not worth it at all, not to mention some of the most embarrassing side effects a man/woman can face. Why should a man have to worry about growing breasts, or having his genitals slowly shrivel away? Or a woman watch herself slowly transform into a male? They shouldn't! But because of steroids it becomes an everyday thing for juicers. "Where the hell did my dick go?!?!" "Ummm, was I born a woman?" It might sound funny but it's happening and very serious. If you work hard enough you can achieve a built body naturally, anyone will agree with that. But steroids are just plain cheating to me, I lose respect for juicers. Even though these boards are a great source of info. too many posts make it sound like you have to supplement and take steroids to get a great body. Even though I know very little about any supplements I know the dangers and negatives of steroids. I myself am standing up for all the old timers and new generation of bodybuilders that know they don't need anything except time, effort, and a proper diet and workout, and I just want everyone to realize that. I would appreciate any responses positive or negative. Thanks for reading.
 
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Re: No offense, but roids is the wussy way out

IlliniStud85 said:
I know that you said that everyone wants to get big fast and that's usually true. You even took your time to give us a great cycle and tips. I am new and have been working out most of my teenage years. I know you might take offense to this, but in my opinion any form of roid, legal or illegal is a waste of money, and the health risks are not worth it at all. My father is a past Mr. Illinois Overall Champion and could dominate the 50+ Tall Class easily. My father grew up in a poor family and the only thing he had to do was work for his body. He had no supplements and doesn't believe in them to this day. He would kick my ass if he saw me waste a dime at GNC or anywhere else. If you work hard enough you can achieve anything, anyone will agree with that. But steroids is just plain cheating to me. Why should a guy have to worry about growing boobs or a shrinking sack? He shouldn't, and people new to the sport have to realize that. Even though I know very little about any supplements I know the dangers and negatives of steroids. I know i'm rambling on but this is a serious issue. If you want to become a Mr. Olympia then pump all the drugs in you that you want. I myself am standing up for all the old timers and new generation of bodybuilders that know they don't need anything except time, effort, and heart, and maybe a little protein. I would appreciate any responses positive or negative. Thanks for reading.

whatever floats your boat. to each his own
 
Regardless of the "steroids are cheating" post,This is a damn fine thread for newbies and they should have this info at there finger tip so ya'll keep this bumped for Kronk and Mrs Kronkette...Just plain good ole infrormation........damn I felt like a old hick there for a minute...hahahaha:D
 
Re: No offense, but roids is the wussy way out

IlliniStud85 said:
I know that you said that everyone wants to get big fast, and that's 100% true in most cases. You even took your time to jot down a decent cycle that will allow people out there to get big. You posted some good information, but the only thing I would applaude you for is the fact that you you listed some side effects and dangers of steroid use. I am new to the board, but have been working out most of my teenage years. I know you might take offense to this, but in my opinion any form of roid supplementation, legal or illegal, is a waste of money and the health risks are not worth it at all, not to mention some of the most embarrassing side effects a man/woman can face. Why should a man have to worry about growing breasts, or having his genitals slowly shrivel away? Or a woman watch herself slowly transform into a male? They shouldn't! But because of steroids it becomes an everyday thing for juicers. "Where the hell did my dick go?!?!" "Ummm, was I born a woman?" It might sound funny but it's happening and very serious. If you work hard enough you can achieve a built body naturally, anyone will agree with that. But steroids are just plain cheating to me, I lose respect for juicers. Even though these boards are a great source of info. too many posts make it sound like you have to supplement and take steroids to get a great body. Even though I know very little about any supplements I know the dangers and negatives of steroids. I myself am standing up for all the old timers and new generation of bodybuilders that know they don't need anything except time, effort, and a proper diet and workout, and I just want everyone to realize that. I would appreciate any responses positive or negative. Thanks for reading.

LMAO! You are ripping on juice, calling users cheaters, yet you are visiting an Anabolic section of the site! LOL

Either way, I respect your opinion, and wish all the best of luck to you.

This thread is for newbies that need help, its not a thread to bash AS users, please do that somewhere else and let the newbies have a place to share information. Thanks.
 
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MORE INFO - INJECTIONS AND BRIDGING

Thanks to my friends at se.com for this. Much better detail then the one I wrote, plus more info on different sites etc.

Injection procedures

There are 4 (5) places on the body suitable for intramuscularly injections:

1. Gluteus medius/-minimus
2. Gluteus maximus
3. Deltoid
4. Vastus lateralis
(5. Rectus femoris, not recommended)

1. Gluteus medius/-minimus

This is the best place to use for intramuscularly injections. It's the most common place to inject, although most steroid users think they're injecting into the Gluteus maximus.
The Gluteus medius/-minimus does not have any large veins and nerves. It's suitable for almost any volum, from 2 ml (cc) and up. It's easy to feel the muscle when you flex your ass.


2. Gluteus maximus

This is the muscle most users think they inject into. They're not aware of the Gluteus medius/-minimus muscles above the Gluteus maximus.
The Gluteus maximus is the most risky place to inject into. If you inject to low, or to close to the middle of the buttock, you can damage the ischiasnerve or puncture the Glutea superior.


3. Deltoid

This is a safe place for smaller injections (0.5-2 ml). The safe area is small, so there's a risk of damaging the radialnerve. Imagine a triangle from the Acromion bone and down. Inject into this area. If you can't see the deltoid muscle through your skin, try to keep the injections within 1 inch (2.5 cm) beneath your Acromion bone.



4 (5). Vastus lateralis

Outer thigh. You can also use the Rectus femoris (middle thigh muscle), but the chance of hitting a nerve or vein is much bigger (not recommended).
When you inject into the Vastus lateralis, inject into the middle, outer area of the thigh.



Syringes and needles.

If you're going to inject 1 ml, use a 2 ml syringe. If you're going to inject 2 ml, use a 3-4 ml syringe. This is to make sure you get the dosage you're supposed to get. Also, most of the 1 ml syringes are thinner and longer than the 2 ml, and most of the 2 ml syringes are thinner and longer than the 3-4 ml syringes. If you're going to inject 1 ml, and use a 1 ml syringe, you have to fill it all the way up. Because of this, the total length of the syringe will be almost twice the length of a 2 ml syringe filled up with 1 ml. The longer the syringe is, the more difficult it is to inject with it.

The needle should be between 20-23 Gauge (0.6-0.9 mm), and between 1.5-2 inches. It's important that the needle is long enough to go deep into the muscle. If you use a short needle, it's a big risk that you'll inject into the fatty tissue.

Injection procedure

Clean the injection place with alcohol. Make sure the skin is dry before you penetrate the skin. If not, you will cause yourself more pain. Relax the muscle and penetrate the skin quickly. Hold the syringe like you would hold a dart. When you've pushed it all the way in, check if you've hit a vein. When you're sure you didn't hit a vein (if no blood came up in the syringe when you withdraw the pump), start to inject slowly. You should use about 10 seconds per ml you're injecting. This is to make sure you don't expand the muscle fibres to fast, and helps disperse the substance to that it doesn't leek to much. When you've injected it all, wait 10 seconds, and then pull the needle out.

Give the muscle at least 2 days off before you inject again. If you have a lot of injections, try to follow a routine like this (or part of it. You get the idea...):

Day 1: injection in the left Gluteus medius
Day 2: injection in the right Gluteus medius
Day 3: injection in the left deltoid
Day 4: injection in the right deltoid
Day 5: injection in the left Vastus lateralis
Day 6: injection in the right Vastus lateralis

Bridging

Bridging by definiton is using a mildly androgenic steroid such as Primobolan, Oxandrolone, Equipoise, or Winstrol to solidify muscle from a previous cycle and build additonal lean muscle mass. Primobolan and Oxandrolone(Anavar) are the top two candidates for bridging. Then you have Equipoise and Winstrol next. Okay the bridging options in order of popularity among bodybuilders, one more time, is Primobolan, Oxandrolone(Anavar), Equipoise, and Winstrol. Any of these four to bridge is a good choice.

Bridging is necessary to maintain and in some cases build lean body mass (muscle) during your time between cycles. The bridging technique used in conjunciton with comid will greatly minimize loss of the gained lbm (lean body mass). The bridge should be used post clomid/HCG scheduling. This way your natural test levels are back up to normal so your body has the natural ability to maintain the added muscle mass. Bridging is designed as not to effect natural test levels according to the dosaging scheduling. This is important as the affinity of your A/R receptors need to be high going into your next cycle for optimal growth.

Let's take a look at each of the choices we have to bridge, starting with Primobolan.

Primobolan should be taken 300-400mg/wk until your next cycle. This will not interfere with natural test production or lower the affinity of the A/R receptor sites. At a dosage of 300mg/wk you will maintain the lean body mass you have and solidify. Primo at a dosage of 400mg/wk will actually replace the loss water with new lean body mass. So it will actually result in a harder more ripped looked going into the next cycle. Primo is also used by many bodybuilders during a cutting cycle too. It is a very versatile supplement which is why it is the #1 choice of most for bridging.

Oxandrolone is also known as anavar. It is an excellent lean body mass builder and will boost strength levels between cycles. A lot of strength atheletes that do not wish an increase in weight use this drug. For example, a competitive athelete who by gaining wieght would put them in a higher weight class would opt for this supplement. Basketball, wrestlers, boxers, and others love this drug. Oxandrolone has a tendicy to solidify muscle, decrease water retention, and increase overall vascularity inbetween cycles. It also happend to be one of my favorites. Most would swear by it. Very good choice with little negative sideeffects. The ideal dosage is 0.125 times your bodyweight = your dosage schedule/day. Usually this is around 30-50mg/day.

Equippose is a good bridge at low dosages as it tends to interefere with natural test production. 100-200mg/wk of equipose should be sufficient to bridge without interfering with natural test levels. Anything higher and you risk interfering with natural test production and lowering the affintiy of your A/R receptor sites. Equipose will solidify already gain muscle with some new muscle growth also. It is a possiblilty of having mild adrogenic effects at high dosages, but not much. It is a pretty safe bridge just not as good as the previous two.

Winny is also a popular drug for bridging. I personally like it beeter than equipose to bridge. It produces vascular qualities that are unrivaled by most supplements. Strength and size gains are phenominal when stacked, but still good to maintain muscle inbetween cycles. It hampers natural test levels also, just like equipose. Winny dosage scheduling for a bridge is 50-100mg EOD (every other day). The usual length of a winny bridge is about 4-6 weeks as this will hamper test levels at a mininmum degree. This negates it as a top drug to bridge with because of this fact.

A final option for the more advanced bodybuilder would be bridging with insulin. Many bodybuilders report strength and weight gains while using insulin on a bridge. I too have used it for bridging and like it. I wouldn't recommend it for the inexperienced though, as it has the possibility of killing you. Yes you heard me right...DEATH!!! So if you are not absolutely sure of what you are doing stick with the four choices I gave you to bridge and you should have no problem.

As you can see bridging becomes as important as post cycle use of clomid/HCG to help maintain levels of lbm (lean body mass). Clomid/HCG therapy does this by restoring natural test levels of your body fastly when coming off cycle to minimize a crash. This greatly reduces the amount of lbm loss post cycle. Bridging further increases the lbm retained and if mastered will even add to lbm levels. With the info I gave you, you should master bridging in no time and be totally MASSIVE!!!
 
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GREAT post Kronk loads of info I'm still new to this and that post has helped alot
THANKS

PS What board are you gona post the pics on ? :p
Haven't seen you babe of a girl friend since this platinum thing came into play


M.A.S.S
 
BigPhysicsBastard said:
Those tits!!.......those god damned titties!!!!

and she's a freak on top of it.......damn you Kronk.....damn you I say!!!!!!


:FRlol: :FRlol: :FRlol:

Now that is some funny shit bro!:FRlol:
 
You guys just don't get it!!!!!!!

This is why this board has gone down the toilet!!!!!! So taking nearly a gram of AS per week is a good first cycle for the newbies out there? That's about the dumbest thing I've heard. Ever heard of going up, holding and then tapering off? Is it any wonder your balls go on vacation and you need a bra!! You guys don't even know how to take clomid!!!!

TO ALL THE NEWBIES ON THIS BOARD: Don't listen to this terrible advice!!!!!!! If you value your health and have a brain you'll listen to me.

TO ALL THE MODERATORS OF THIS BOARD: You let this crap on the board so it is YOUR fault that it isn't worth visiting more than a couple of times per year for a good laugh!!!!

IDIOTS one and all!!!!!!

MM
 
Re: You guys just don't get it!!!!!!!

Musclemaker said:
This is why this board has gone down the toilet!!!!!! So taking nearly a gram of AS per week is a good first cycle for the newbies out there? That's about the dumbest thing I've heard. Ever heard of going up, holding and then tapering off? Is it any wonder your balls go on vacation and you need a bra!! You guys don't even know how to take clomid!!!!

TO ALL THE NEWBIES ON THIS BOARD: Don't listen to this terrible advice!!!!!!! If you value your health and have a brain you'll listen to me.

TO ALL THE MODERATORS OF THIS BOARD: You let this crap on the board so it is YOUR fault that it isn't worth visiting more than a couple of times per year for a good laugh!!!!

IDIOTS one and all!!!!!!

MM

With all due respect MM, you obviously didn't read the post. There is NO way in the world I would ever tell a newbie to take a gram of test! Are you crazy? I agree that would be a very dumb thing. I am not sure what you mean by not knowing how to take clomid. The "sample" clomid instructions I put up there are very real and good advise for a newbie that isn't taking that much test.

You are telling the newbie's not to listen to advice, however, you haven't even taken the time to read the post. I don't think there is one MOD that wouldn't say this post is VERY solid advice for any newbie.

You flame me and call us all idiots, but all you did is make yourself look like one. I sure hope that you put more time in your own personal research then you did reading this post. Gee Wiz bro! Before you flame at least get your facts straight.
 
The real bodybuilders, true old timers

I consider myself even an old timer. One's who don't believe in these new age supplements. They might work but some don't have the money to buy them. These are the people who truely work to get their muscular body. People like my dad, former Overall Mr. Illinois Winner taught me and many others well. He told me the facts on steroids and even showed me pictures of old pals that suffered from some of the worst side effects. One of his best bud's even past away recently from the effects of long time juice. I know Kronk said that I was ripping on juice on a juice board but he didn't give any serious side effects or warnings. He made it sound like you have to take steroids to get big. Try telling the newbies like myself that there are alternatives. Thanks for reading. I appreciate and responses good or bad.
 
Re: The real bodybuilders, true old timers

IlliniStud85 said:
I know Kronk said that I was ripping on juice on a juice board but he didn't give any serious side effects or warnings. He made it sound like you have to take steroids to get big. Try telling the newbies like myself that there are alternatives. Thanks for reading. I appreciate and responses good or bad.

OK bro. You are once again talking out both sides of your mouth. First YOU say that all roid users are wussys, now you make it sound like I was ripping on you. Please take this b/s somewhere else and stop posting on this thread. This is here to HELP people who WANT to do juice and need the information to do it correctly so they dont mess themselves up.

If you are so die hard against juice, why the hell to you keep coming to the anabolic section of the site? I never flamed you nor did I say anything bad about you at all. I even went as far as saying I respect your opinion. I did this post to HELP newbies, not get into this kinda shit with gear bashers. If you dont like gear, DONT TAKE IT, or come to sites that are here to HELP people understand how to take them.

ONCE AGAIN Either way, I respect your opinion, and wish all the best of luck to you.

This thread is for newbies that need help, its not a thread to bash AS users, please do that somewhere else and let the newbies have a place to share information. Thanks.

P.S. I never said that you need to take steriods to get big.
Sounds like you got a personal problem bro, take it somewhere else.

P.S.S. I will post an entire thread on side effects as I have promised many I would. This stuff takes time to gather and its not like I am a mod or anything.
 
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Thanks again to my bros at se.com

Common mistakes made by NEWBIES

1. Using Excessive Dosages
When taking steroids, the more you take is not always the best way to go. Taking excessive dosages has become a huge problem with steroids today. It isn't only dangerous, but studies have shown it to be ineffective. The body can only use a limited amount of the steroid so the extra is turned into estrogen by the body.
2. Stayin On Steroids Too Long
In several cases, steroid users avoid waring signs telling them not to go on a cycle more than 8 to 12 weeks without an off period. If an off period is not taken, there is a higher chance for the negative effects of steroids to occur. If there is no off period the body does not have a chance to recover from the steroids, so more damage is done. This also is terrible for the kidneys and liver.

3. Eating Poorly
Many people ignore magazines and educators that explain eating as being an important asset to growing, but the truth is, eating healthy has a big effect on the body. When on steroids the user must comsume between 4000 and 7000 calories a day, not meaning eat only fat foods. The diet must be high in calories and protein, but low in fat.

4. Training Incorrectly
When on steroids the training must be intense and difficult. Instead of the usual weight that suits you, you must do excess weight and strenuous work for the best gains. The workout should involve the maximum weight possible, and make progress each time.

5. Not Getting Regular Blood Tests
Steroids are very dangerous and can cause great problems. Blood tests should be done often and regularly. When steroids are first taken many tests become elevated but will return to normal with in a few weeks. During the off period tests should also be done to make sure the body is recovering properly. If there is a problem with the Blood test, consult a doctor that you can trust.

6. Using The Wrong Steroids
Many athletes will increase their chances of getting negative effects when they take the wrong steroids. The strongest steroids that build more muscle mass, have the most side effects. These drugs should be avoided if possible, unless there is a reason to have an unbelievable gain. But these drugs are very toxic and I would recommend not taking them.

7. Using Counterfeits
Counterfeit steroids are a bigger problem than you would believe, there are more counterfeit steroids in the market than you would think. These steroids offer no positive gains, and some give the side effects of real steroids. Taking counterfeit steroids is like injecting poison into your body, bad effects nothing positive.
 
Newbies that are looking for AS advice arent going to take info they dont want to hear. If you start preaching to them they will get bad info from other places.
I am sure many if not all Newbies know the risks. This thread is to get them started not to warn them.
If you want to post the warnings and sides of AS use then do it. i am sure it will be a big hit on this board.
All i am saying is at least they are researching and asking and not injecting stupid shit or huge doses.
I think Kronk has given solid advise on a starting cycle and made sure that "IF" they do juice they have a good base to start with..
You are saying your Dad was a lifting in the old days. Well daym dude lots has changed since then plus the knowledge is so much better now. I bet if the juicers of then were to have the knowledge of today they would have been huge too. Even your Dad. Its alot safer know then it was then. Unless you are Stacking Huge amounts and then you know you are going to pay the price later. As in any sport if you have ever played competive sports you know you need to sacrafice later if you want results today.

Kronk should not be flamed here.

Great post Kronk keep up the GREAT work. and keep us up to date with more info as you go.
 
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What are AS and what are side effects

What are anabolic steroids?

Anabolic steroids are synthetic male hormones which enhance and repair the body tissue-building process. They are used medically to treat anemia (low red blood cell count); to control breast cancer in women; to improve weight loss due to severe illness, and to treat osteoporosis (bone loss).

Testosterone was often referred to as the "male" hormone, because it is responsible for developing some of the male characteristics such as lowering of the voice and hair growth, and because the male body produces much more of it than the female.

Testosterone, and its metabolites such as dihydrotestosterone, act in many parts of the body, producing the secondary sexual characteristics often male: balding, facial and body hair, deep voice, greater muscle bulk, thicker skin, and genital maturity. At puberty it produces acne, the growth spurt and the enlargement of the penis and testes as well as causing the fusion of the epiphyses (through its conversion to estrogens), bringing growth in height to an end. It plays some role in maintaining the sexual organs in the adult, but only a low concentration is required for this.

The normal production of testosterone in the adult male is 4 to 9mg per day. The normal plasma concentration is 22.5nmol/l, of which 97% is protein bound. Most is excreted in the urine as 17-keto steroids, but a small amount is converted to estrogen's.

Possible physical side effects:

Cancer...
Liver Damage...
Feminizing effects in males (growth of breast tissue)...
Male attributes in females (deepening of voice, excessive hair growth)...
Enlarged clitoris...
Shrunken testicles...
Limb loss...
Heart disease/heart attacks...
Physical addiction...
HIV/AIDS from the sharing of needles...
Reduced sperm count...
Impotence...
Infertility...
Baldness...
Pain and difficulty urinating...
Enlarged prostate...
Baldness...
Smaller Breast in women...
Menstrual cycle stops...
Adolescents experience premature closure of the growth plates (stunted growth)...

These are some of the physical side effects associated with steroid use. As you can see these drugs can affect the body in a very negative way. Despite all of these proven side effects people are still taking steroids. These side effects may not appear in all users at first. It is likely though with the long term usage of steroids that one or more of these side effects will occur in the user. These can be minor changes in the body and they can be extreme changes. It all depends on the dosage and duration of the usage. These are very good examples of why not to take steroids. Doctors are still discovering new side effects today, and there are still a lot of unknown problems with the newer more advanced steroids that will turn up.

Possible physiological side effects

Roid rage (extreme uncontrollable aggression due to high levels of testosterone)
Irritability..
Aggressiveness...
Depression...
Mood swings...
Altered libido...
Psychosis...
Mental addiction...

These are the psychological side effects associated with steroid use. The use of steroids can lead to a persons whole personality changing. The users testosterone levels are at amazingly high levels-so high that they become a danger to themselves and others. Users of steroids have been known to pick fights for no reason, attack family members, and kill people. With the roid rages, changes in moods, depression, and psychosis users are mentally unstable. They can harm or kill themselves, and people around them. There have been many cases of suicide and homicide related to the use of steroids. These are the side effects that should concern people the most because this no longer just involves the users, but also the people around him.
 
Holding on to your gains without steroids

Holding on to your gains without steroids by William Llewellyn

There is a line that is easily crossed in the world of steroids. It is the line between part-time moderate use and the almost never-ending consumption of the hardcore bodybuilder. When first introduced to steroids, one quickly finds that their resulting gains are not all permanent. If you loved the way you looked towards the end of that first bulking cycle, and rapidly lost a good part of your favored look after the cycle stopped, it sometimes becomes an easy choice to just do another cycle, and stay on it longer the next time.

Braggs of “just one or two cycles” soon fade. Eventually it develops into continuous steroid use, as the athlete finds it harder and harder to come off and face the loss of any aspect of his well-crafted physique. But not everyone crosses this line. For many, steroid use remains a periodic event. Occasioned perhaps by a seasonal need for cosmetic improvement, hopefully with health first in mind. If you haven’t tried steroids yet but this is the kind of use that is attractive to you, you probably are giving some thought now to just what steroids can provide you in the long run. Exactly what can you maintain after a cycle is over, without hopping right back on the drugs?

As mentioned, not all of what you gain from steroids is going to stay with you long term. I don’t think that is much of a surprise though, as I’m sure it is understood that the drugs just do not immediately and irrevocably transform your body. That of course is not to say steroids are entirely useless unless you take them all of the time. The average recreational bodybuilder can make marked changes to his physique with steroids, which can stay long after the drugs are gone. The problem lies as we wonder exactly how much we can gain and keep. There is clearly a threshold of how much muscle tissue your natural body chemistry would allow you to carry, and if you expect to far exceed that during steroid use it will not remain for a prolonged period of time after the drugs are done. Expect that almost immediately the body will enter a state where slowly but steadily the new mass will diminish. Steroids will soon be needed again if the mass is to be kept.

Natural Growth and Protein Turnover

It seems like the bigger you get, the harder it is to add new mass. Walls and plateaus become more of a regular part of training the longer you do it. Before long it is a fight to make any small improvement. The protein cycle likely plays a big part in this. The protein that makes up muscle tissue is subject to constant turnover by the body. New proteins are synthesized, and existing ones broken down. The process is constant. It also seems that this balance becomes strained the more mass we accumulate. The body reaches a point where new proteins cannot be synthesized at a rate that will allow further growth, and new muscle tissue is resisted. It is not easy to trick it to think your way, and gains proceed slowly.

Steroids allow someone to easily pass such walls and sticking points and enhance their level of muscle mass over what could possibly be achieved otherwise by boosting the ability of cells to synthesize new proteins. The balance of anabolic (tissue building) and catabolic (tissue breakdown) processes can be unnaturally shifted well in favor of the former, and for a period of time natural limits can be exceeded. But once the drugs are stopped, the old chemistry returns. If your body wants to be 160 lbs and you are bulked up to 220lb, don’t expect to stay there long. But what if we are not striving for a competitor’s physique? Perhaps we didn’t gain 60lbs and only want to hold on to maybe 10 or 15 lbs of the 20 lb or so gained this year. If the muscle gains are not unreasonable, is fighting to keep them a practical idea? Certainly, and the place to fight for them is in the post-cycle hormonal recovery period.

Post-Cycle Recovery Period

The biggest obstacle to keeping your gains after the cycle is over is going to be the post-cycle recovery period. This describes the window of time after steroids are withdrawn, and before the body has been able to restore its internal hormonal balance. The problem is that during the cycle the body detects excess hormones quickly. In an effort to counter this imbalance, the release of testosterone is drastically lowered. Because the body stops signaling the testes to produce testosterone, they become atrophied. Cell size and activity shrinks, and for a period of time they are physically less able to do their jobs. When the drugs are stopped and the stimulus comes to produce testosterone again, they can’t do it. It may take several weeks for the body to normalize after the cycle is over, sometimes months as the testes slowly catch up. The resulting window is categorized by extremely low anabolic activity, which is often unable to balance the body’s natural catabolic forces. Left unchecked, muscle mass can rapidly diminish. I don’t think I have to explain why this period of time is also commonly called the post-cycle crash.

The Problem With Tapering

Extremely common is the recommendation to slowly taper off steroid dosages at the end of each cycle in order to avoid a post-cycle crash. For example, if we were taking 800mg of testosterone enanthate weekly and 100mg Anadrol per day at the peak of a bulking run, at least 4 or 6 weeks would be spent slowly lowering that amount when we were ready to go off. The testosterone dosage would dropped by a 100 or 200 milligrams per week, and the Anadrol maybe a half a tab less daily on every seventh or tenth day. Over the course of four to six weeks, we would be hoping for a soft cushy landing back to balanced internal hormone levels as our bodies read this lowering and respond by firing up our testosterone again. The problem is that we would be expecting way too much from this type of a program. The inescapable flaw with tapering is that even relatively low levels of steroids can be suppressive to natural testosterone release. Even 100mg per week of enanthate, or 25mg per day of Anadol would lower testosterone levels. So how can we expect 6 weeks devoted to dropping intake to this point to help us? Clearly we cannot. Testosterone would not budge during the 6 weeks, and it would be a completely useless endeavor with the crash still occurring once the drugs were completely stopped. Tapering is no doubt a relic of the earlier ages of steroid use, when drugs were taken with little understanding of their actions. Today we know better, and prefer to rely on other means to help restore our natural androgen production.

Post Cycle Help

The use of HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin) and an anti-estrogen such as tamoxifen (Nolvadex) or clomiphene (Clomid) is considered the most effective way to combat crashing at the end of the cycle. HCG and an anti-estrogen are both implemented first. This compound is basically injectable LH (luetinizing hormone); it mimics the natural body hormone that stimulates the release of testosterone. Typically 5000IU is given per application, once every four or five days. This is only continued for two to three weeks at maximum, no more than three or four shots total. The function of HCG is to hit the testes hard with a heavy dose of LH, in order to help shock them back into working order. The anti-estrogen is used to help block any trouble that might come if estrogen levels begin to elevate. After this the anti-estrogen is taken alone for two to three weeks. These drugs also work in a similar way to HCG, as they enhance LH output. However the anti-estrogens work by blocking receptors in the brain that trigger the negative feedback loop that halts testosterone release. Endogenous LH levels can be elevated as a result, but not exponentially. The increase is similarly notable but not unreasonable. We are hoping this will be enough to enable the body to produce a physiologically normal amount of testosterone and cushion the effect a hormonal imbalance can have on muscle mass.

Conclusion

The goal of a good post-cycle program is to minimize, potentially avoid, putting the body in a state where anabolic hormones are absent. If we can prevent this from happening, quite a bit of muscle mass can be saved instead of being rapidly lost to unbalanced hormone levels. Although tapering offers us little, fortunately we find there are a few common bodybuilding drugs that can aid us. Once the crash is dealt with and eventually balance restored, it will be up to you and your internal chemistry to see if the muscle mass is maintainable long-term. Of course I don’t have to remind you that diet and training are also very important factors. If one loses the drive to train aggressively or eat correctly, then there is that much more to fight against. But that aside, I have spoken with many recreational bodybuilders who feel that early experimentation they did with steroids has made lasting changes in the absence of these drugs. Some feel that they are able to carry around more muscle mass now than they were before trying steroids, yet continue to train naturally and have so for years. I think it is mostly just a matter of how much muscle you are looking for. If you have only dabbled with steroids and like the modest look of muscularity you have achieved, then I don’t doubt a little diligence should enable you to keep a nice physique. But if you think you are going to massively bulk up, be prepared for the hard and inevitably hopeless fight to hang on to your gains that accompanies long breaks from steroid use.


Bibliography

1- Effect of long term testosterone oenanthate administration on male reproductive function. Acta Endocrinol 78 (1975) 373-84

2- Effects of chronic testosterone administration in normal men: safety and efficacy of high dosage testosterone and parallel dose-dependent suppression of luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and sperm production. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1990 Jan;70(1):282-7

3- Alteration of hormone levels in normal males given the anabolic steroid stanozolol. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1984 Jul;21(1):49-55

4- Accute stimulation of aromatization in Leydig cells by HCG in vitro. Proc Natl Acad Sci 76:4460, 1979 5- Hormonal effects of an antiestrogen, tamoxifen, in normal and oligospermic men. Fertil Steril 1978 Mar;29(3):320-7
 
Basics of stacking steroids by William Llewellyn

Basics of stacking steroids by William Llewellyn.

I think that this time can also be a daunting one though, as you sit and realize the endless possibilities for a steroid stack. Which combinations work best, which are wasteful? It can be very confusing, particularly if you do not understand the underlying advantages or disadvantages to mixing certain drugs. In this article I would therefore like to take a look at the basics of stacking steroids, and hopefully help the reader focus on picking among the more productive drug combinations.
Estrogenic and androgenic potency

All steroids work primarily by activating a single type of androgen receptor (AR), found in many tissues in the body, including of course skeletal muscle. Activation of this receptor in muscle tissue increases the rate of protein synthesis, which promotes growth. This mechanism is universal for all anabolic/androgenic steroids, making clear that stacking is not a necessity. All steroids do roughly the same thing in this regard and only differ in potency. However that is not to say that other factors do not play an important role in determining the overall effectiveness of a steroid cycle. When looking to assemble the appropriate stack, there are a couple of important variables to consider before combining steroids: Namely the estrogenic and androgenic potency of the cycle. Many steroids can convert to estrogen in the body, which occurs by a natural process termed aromatization. On the negative side, heightened estrogen levels in men can promote side effects such as water retention, fat deposition and gynecomastia (female breast tissue development). For this reason athletes often use estrogen maintenance drugs during higher dosed cycles with easily aromatized compounds. However estrogen also helps to support muscle growth and recovery by enhancing glucose utilization in muscle tissue(1), as well as fostering the release of growth hormone and its anabolic end product IGF-1 (insulin like growth factor I) (2). Although not key mediators of growth, both effects are certainly beneficial when looking to increase muscle mass. It is therefore may be important to include an estrogenic steroid during cycles in which bulk muscle growth is the goal. Androgenic potency is a second key factor. Although both anabolic and androgenic activity are mediated via the same receptor, certain steroids are notably more potent androgens than others. This is due to the ability of certain steroids to be converted to more potent ones in specific androgen sensitive body tissues such as the skin, scalp, liver, CNS and prostate. This occurs via the 5-alpha reductase enzyme, and is the same process in which testosterone is converted to the more potent steroid dihydrotestosterone in humans. Methyltestosterone, fluoxymesterone (Halotestin®), methandrostenolone (Dianabol) and boldenone (Equipoise®) all undergo this same process to heighten their activity. On the other hand nandrolone (and its derivatives Nilevar and Orabolin) undergo reduction to weaker form in the presence of 5-alpha reductase, making them much weaker androgens. Increased androgenic activity can bring about side effects such as oily skin/acne and male pattern hair loss during steroid therapy, which are often important concerns for athletes. However the increased androgenic activity in the CNS may also support neuromuscular system functioning and development, potentially aiding strength and tissue gains (3). In addition, it also seems to help support mood, energy, motivation and sexual functioning. Likewise highly androgenic steroids can be an important addition to a cycle when strength and mass are important. Furthermore if we use mild anabolics exclusively such as nandrolone, Nilevar and Orabolin, their low level of androgenic potency and tendency to lower endogenous testosterone (androgen) levels may cause problems in these crucial areas. Most often when decreased libido, lack of motivation or even depression is noticed during steroid use, the exclusive use of anabolics like Deca is to blame.

The three types of steroid cycles:

Bulking:

During a bulking stack sheer mass is the ultimate goal. The athlete is looking to gain as much muscle as possible, and a little extra fat or water retention is to be ignored. It can certainly be dealt with later. With this in mind a mixture of estrogenic and androgenic compounds are favored. Testosterone is really considered the basic, all-purpose and often indispensable androgen to base a bulking cycle around. If used in low to moderate doses, typically 200-400 mg weekly, the estrogenic activity of this compound may not trigger gynecomastia. Some people are more sensitive than others, so if this side effect is not becoming noticeable (pain and sensitivity to the nipple is the first sign) antiestrogens are often withheld to foster a more anabolic environment. Of course with such stacks it would be a good idea to keep some Nolvadex® close by. From here we look for something to compliment the testosterone. To do this best, the no-holds barred bulking cycle should include some form of oral steroid to balance it out. This is because oral steroids have an unbalanced effect on liver tissues because they become heavily concentrated in the organ after being administered. Since androgens are active in the liver, their relative actions may be very heightened during steroid use of this type. One important action of anabolic/androgenic steroids in the liver is to interfere with the release of the serum binding protein sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) (4). SHBG and other proteins work to bind and restrict steroids from exerting activity in the body, and bind approximately 98% of the testosterone found in the male body. At any given time only about 2% is available to interact with androgen receptors in cells. What we find with oral androgen use is that the drop in SHBG levels is much more pronounced than seen with injectable steroid therapy. Orals are likewise notably more potent at increasing the level of free (unbound) steroid hormone in the body than injectable preparations. For this reason combining an oral with an injectable, particular testosterone, can produce a very synergistic effect toward promoting muscle growth with the oral working to free up more available testosterone. For the steroid novice, a very formidable bulking cycle might consist of 400mg weekly of a long acting testosterone ester such as cypionate or enanthate, combined with 50mg of Anadrol or 25 mg of Dianabol per day. Here the results can be extremely dramatic, and in most cases the side effects within a tolerable range.

Lean muscle gain:

When looking to gain lean muscle mass estrogen becomes an important concern (5). We therefore usually omit testosterone and other highly estrogenic steroids such as Anadrol and methyltestosterone, or at least keep their dosages low and balance them with less estrogenic compounds to stop extra fat from accumulating. Good base injectable steroids include the poorly aromatized nandrolone and boldenone, as well as the non-aromatizable steroid Primobolan-Depot® (methenolone enanthate). Of the list boldenone and Dianabol are the most androgenic, however both are still much less androgenic then testosterone due to lower affinity to interact with 5-alpha reductase. Still, any added androgenic potency may be welcome in the cycle to support strength, energy, motivation and even sex drive.

Orals that mix well into such stacks include stanozolol (Winstrol®), oral Primobolan® (methenolone acetate) or Dianabol (in moderate doses). Popular combinations for lean mass gain include: nandrolone (200-400mg weekly) and Dianabol (10-20mg daily), Primobolan® 200-300mg weekly) and Dianabol (10-20mg daily), boldenone (150-300mg weekly) and Winstrol (10-20mg daily) and 300-500mg combined of nandrolone and boldenone (for the oral sensitive). In all cases a slightly stronger androgen is being balanced out by a milder anabolic. All also include some level of estrogenic activity, however not so much that we would expect noticeable fat or water weight gains.

Cutting stack:

During a cutting stack the ultimate goal is the rapid loss of body fat and the preservation of muscle tissue mass. Here we are usually not thinking about gaining, as diet and activity are more geared toward calorie restriction and increased aerobic exercise. For the extremely diligent a cutting stack will exclude all aromatizable and estrogenic steroids. The combination of Primobolan (200-300mg weekly) and Winstrol (10-20mg daily) works exceptionally well for the purpose of cutting up, as both are reliable anabolics with no estrogenic activity. We can alternately replace Winstrol with Halotestin® (10-25mg daily) or Proviron® (25-50mg daily), two potent androgens that can also not be aromatized in the body. Trenbolone is additionally sometimes used for this purpose, which is a synthetic non-aromatizable derivative of nandrolone.

The goal with all possible combinations is to shift the androgen/estrogen ratio far in favor of the former, which greatly fosters the removal of body fat. Although in some instances athletes will utilize milder estrogenic drugs like nandrolone and boldenone during a cutting cycle, or even low doses of testosterone, we should remember that estrogen works against fat loss. The lower the level of estrogen in the body, presumably the easier it is going to be to force off the unwanted subcutaneous fat. While some may still respond well to such a stack, often the sticking point to fat loss during steroid therapy is the level of estrogen. If you are having trouble, this should be one of the first things to look at. Another effective but expensive option for those who insist on using aromatizable compounds is to take a powerful anti-aromatase like Arimidex (the cost can be $10 per pill, with a single table daily for the dosage) with a androgen such as testosterone. If we block its ability to convert to estradiol in such a way, testosterone joins the list of potent fat loss agents.

In conclusion:

The subject of stacking can be a very confusing one. When you take such a large selection of drugs, and think of various ways to combine them, you end with quite the list of possibilities. We really cannot say that any one way is the most correct or effective, as there are so many variables to consider and so many productive methods to using these drugs. But clearly some drugs are more appropriately suited for certain uses than others. It was not my intention to provide you with the ultimate bulking or cutting stack in this article, but rather to convey some general advice to use when picking you next cycle. Knowing the basic principles of combining steroids can certainly save a lot of time and guesswork, particularly for the beginner who is looking to keep things simple with moderate doses and avoid the more sophisticate and side effect intensive intake regimens.

Bibliography:

1-Aromatization of androgens to estrogens mediates increased activity of glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase in rat levator ani muscle. Endocrinol 106(2):440-43 1980

2-Activation of the somatotropic axis by testosterone in adult males: Evidence for the role of aromatization. J Clin. Endocrinol Metab 76:1407-12 1993

3- Neural androgen receptor regulation: effects of androgen and antiandrogen. Lu S, Simon NG, Wang Y, Hu S. J Neurobiol 1999 Dec;41(4):505-12

4- Effects of Anabolic Steroids on Hormone-Binding proteins, Serum Cortisol and Serum Nonprotein-Bound Cortisol. J Clin Endocrinol 32: 232,1971.

5- Androgen and estrogen metabolism: relationship to obesity. Longcope C, Baker R, Johnston CC Jr. Metabolism 1986 Mar;35(3):235-7
 
i myself have had 2 knee surgeries 1 back surgery numerous broken bones , concussions, torn ligaments, ETC... but i still play Hockey against Dr.'s orders. I know ill pay later for the damage today but that is what happens.
 
Buffalo Joe said:
i myself have had 2 knee surgeries 1 back surgery numerous broken bones , concussions, torn ligaments, ETC... but i still play Hockey against Dr.'s orders. I know ill pay later for the damage today but that is what happens.

Wow, that sucks bro. Take care of yourself! BTW - make sure to see all the new posts that I just did on the previous page.

P.S. That Colorado AV's are going to take the Cup this year!! lol
 
just saw the posts and daym dude you "DA MAN" you have the great advice and a HOTTIE there is only one thing wrong. Kings are going to go this year Down with the AV'S.

serisouly Dude your posts are awesome have really opned my eyes to more possiblities and not only Newbies will get great info fron this
 
Nizoral shampoo 2%

kronk,

thanks for the info....How do you get Nizoral 2% shampoo...All they have OTC at the store is 1%...Does it make a difference which one you use & should you use it everyday?

Thanks...
 
Re: Nizoral shampoo 2%

johnboy66 said:
kronk,

thanks for the info....How do you get Nizoral 2% shampoo...All they have OTC at the store is 1%...Does it make a difference which one you use & should you use it everyday?

Thanks...

I got had a script for the 2%, but after that I just used the 1% so you will be fine. I just followed the directs and used everyday.
 
Very Sorry Everyone

I'd like to apologize to everyone, especially Kronk. Juice is cool with me. Kronk should be applauded for his great advice, and I applaud him. Thanks Kronk.
 
Re: Very Sorry Everyone

IlliniStud85 said:
I'd like to apologize to everyone, especially Kronk. Juice is cool with me. Kronk should be applauded for his great advice, and I applaud him. Thanks Kronk.

You are a good man IlliniStud85, eat lots and train hard bro!
 
I'll applaud him as a man among men when he sends me a copy of the tape he said he'd send.(Kronk, that'll stir up some requests won't it? hehehe)(just kidding guys, leave the man alone)
 
Kronk, listen up !!

What I meant to say is that suggesting to take nearly a gram of AS per week for a first cycle is incredibly stupid and that is exactly what you did!! 400 of Deca and 500 of test is NOT what a newbie should be doing!! Your playing with peoples health here you know!!

And I'm the idiot for pointing this out?

You were right about one thing though. I didn't read the rest of your post after the suggested first cycle of yours because I was too angry!!!!!!

So telling me to do my research does make someone look stupid. YOU!!!!!

M
 
the begginer stack u have mentioned is good but could be beter if u popped 7 tabs of d-ball the first 40 days!! this way u dont have to wait for week 5 to c results!! (by the way my first cycle was suspension/winny V, just so u know)....
 
Great post for newbie's. Have a few questions...
Started 400 mg deca plus 500 mg sust 14 days back. As we don't get d-bol in India so instead got myself winni. Took 20 mg winni (ed) first week and am taking 30 mg (ed) now. Gained 12 lb in 14 days. Eating good protein/carb/fat at ratios 40/40/20 respectively.

My question is: when to start liv-52 (don't get milk thistle here).
Also is winni going to give some gains at this dose. Am going to just take this for 4 weeks and have decided to take deca / sus for 8 weeks straight.

Also you suggest about "ROGAINE"....but i understand that minoxidil (the compound that is in rogaine) will hamper in protein synthesis. Really want to save that receiding hairline....so please do answer back. Is it fine to take Rogaine.
Big2
 
big2 said:
Great post for newbie's. Have a few questions...
Started 400 mg deca plus 500 mg sust 14 days back. As we don't get d-bol in India so instead got myself winni. Took 20 mg winni (ed) first week and am taking 30 mg (ed) now. Gained 12 lb in 14 days. Eating good protein/carb/fat at ratios 40/40/20 respectively.

My question is: when to start liv-52 (don't get milk thistle here).
Also is winni going to give some gains at this dose. Am going to just take this for 4 weeks and have decided to take deca / sus for 8 weeks straight.

Also you suggest about "ROGAINE"....but i understand that minoxidil (the compound that is in rogaine) will hamper in protein synthesis. Really want to save that receiding hairline....so please do answer back. Is it fine to take Rogaine.
Big2

Great. It sounds like you diet is in order. I would start the liv-52 now, and at least run it while you are taking the winny. I usually run my liver supps the entire cycle, but with your cycle, at least run it for four weeks. Take some cranberry extract as well to help the kidneys, and drink a gallon to a gallon and a half of water ed.

The dosage that you have for winny on your first cycle is fine. I believe that I took 40mg when I first did it, but I was not stacking it as I used it for my bridge. They winny will make you real hard and give you great pumps. You will be good at that dosage, I wouldnt up it.

Hope this helps bro. Keep up the good work, and remember: Eat everything you can, eat like a horse and grow like an animal! You can cut up later!!
 
Kronk, True that this is a very nice post...but the part in your sample cycle area about the 4 weeks to kick in.... This only applies to test or any other gear that has a long ester.
Now prop on the other hand kicks in within a week.

Also your clomid theropy I don't agree with. If your using a long estered drug like deca, then a lot of it will still be active into the second and third week after your last injection. So starting clomid that early with that small amount will be useless.

For the cycle you suggested, your clomid should start on the 3rd week after last shot at
300 mgs day 1
followed by 100mgs ed throughout the rest of week 1
week 2 at 50mgs ed
week3 at 50 mgs eod

If you gentlemen try to skip the clomid, not only will it take a long time to get your natural test back to par....But you take the chance of crashing and some harder then others!

Now not all will, but take it from me, it's not a pleasent experiance!
bass
 
basskiller said:
Kronk, True that this is a very nice post...but the part in your sample cycle area about the 4 weeks to kick in.... This only applies to test or any other gear that has a long ester.
Now prop on the other hand kicks in within a week.

Also your clomid theropy I don't agree with. If your using a long estered drug like deca, then a lot of it will still be active into the second and third week after your last injection. So starting clomid that early with that small amount will be useless.

For the cycle you suggested, your clomid should start on the 3rd week after last shot at
300 mgs day 1
followed by 100mgs ed throughout the rest of week 1
week 2 at 50mgs ed
week3 at 50 mgs eod

If you gentlemen try to skip the clomid, not only will it take a long time to get your natural test back to par....But you take the chance of crashing and some harder then others!

Now not all will, but take it from me, it's not a pleasent experiance!
bass

Great post bass! Thats why we started this thread. So newbies have a place to go for information and so that vets can post advice like this.

The sample cycle was just that, a sample. I should have said sus or cyp of something like that on the test side, but since so many people argue about test, that is why I just said that. You are right on the money, as the Deca may take 4 weeks or so, but if using prop it would kick in about a week. I think that most newbies should start with cyp or sus, but that just my opinion. I didnt have the time to get as detaild as I would have like to, but I wanted to get this going and I was sure that other vets and people like you would chime in with advice.

Great advice bro, and you are right on the $$. As far as clomid goes, I have never seen so many people with different ideas. I posted a clomid cycle, that I got out of Anabolic 2000 I believe, for newbies. I agree with your clomid dosages, but I think it depends on what you are using and how much etc.

Bass, I respect you and thank you for your words. I am sure others bros will love to hear it and I encourage anyone with constructive thoughts to do the same.

Later,

Kronk
 
I agree with a new guy starting with a long estered drug...Not as many injections to start with.

Here is a little addition to your thread as originally posted by IG
When to start your clomid!

Anadrol/Anapolan: 8 - 12 hours after last administration
Deca: 3 weeks after last injection and clomid for 4 weeks
Dianabol: 4 – 8 hours after last administration
Equipoise: 3 weeks after last injection
Fina: 3 days after last injection
Primobolan depot: 10 – 14 days after last injection
Sustanon: 3 weeks after last injection
Testosterone Cypionate: 2 weeks after last injection
Testosterone Enanthate: 2 weeks after last injection
Testosterone Propionate: 3 days after last injection
Testosterone Suspension: 4 – 8 hours after last administration
Winstrol: 8 – 12 hours after last administration

bass
 
Newbie Question? ?

I short ordered my first batch. Thanks for the tip on waiting. I do not want to assume that I will get the next batch. therefore I will wait. Please give me your opinion on Primo Depot. I read it is safe, works decent and does not have many side effects - other than the one on my pockebook.:)
I have had someone tell me 200 Mg per week and someone else tell me 400. I need to know so I can have the correct amount.
P.S. What is the best way to tell if they are scammers? I found the SCAM list and it is pretty cool.
I am only trying to put on 12 -14 lbs of muscle only with not "swelling". I heard that Primo has the best muscle retention of any other product.
Dazed and confused . . . :confused:
 
Great info

Big up to Kronk. Thanks for the ton of great info. I'm getting educated to do my first cycle so I've been lurking around here for a couple of weeks. Just came across this post for Newbies like me. Great info.

Anyway, I was just about to post a few questions and I'm glad I didn't because Kronk answered them most of them. Either way I think I'll make a little more effort to see if my other questions are answered in previous posts. Before I annoy the experts.

Pebcak
 
thanksfor all the info Kronk. I've been thinking about cycling for over a year now. In a few weeks Im going to be able to get and 8 week cycle of d bol and a ten week cycle of winny. when should I start to take chlomid? Thanks again
 
Reading this post again makes me Cry!

Dude this post is so on! I am glad I read it before I started. This is my third week and I am reading it again. You have put some time and thought into this. Karma your way!
 
Sustanon

New to the discussion board and just started a cycle of sustanon. I have been diligent in researching the gear and injection techniques and have followed the injection protocols, but am experiencing more side effects than I think are normal. Basically my ass is killing me! The pain is intense, muscular and lingering (usually four - five days). I'm using a 22 gauge 1 1/2" needle, going slow etc, but it hurts to even sit in my car. Any advice? Bigger smaller needle? Bad gear? What's UP?

Signed Pain In the ASS
 
Lots to cut and paste !!! in this thread !
You can lead a horse to water.........................etc

The worst thing any one can do is Not Use the Info avaiable !
 
Thanks guys, there are about 100 things more that should be in here and I will start adding to it. I will add a bunch more stuff soon.
 
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