Newbie cycles that vets could learn from.

[Quadsweep]

Quad, what you can get away with and what the average guy can get away with are very far apart.
Real, Yes I am serious. How long have you been cycling? How long have you been watching all your friends get into it and start their cycles?
You've been around this game for a year now. This time last year you didn't know a damn thing about steroid cycling.
I have been doing this for neary 20 years I have seen HUNDREDS of guys start down this road and I know from experience that your 250mg/wk is a waste. Way back on page 1-2 of this thread I posted that the risks of infection, the law, acne, balding, etc are all the same at 250 as they are at 750 and the gains are not.

Don't take any of this personally bro. But you and quad don't WTF you're talking about when it comes to this subject.

Ok, Lets get this going! First off, where do you get off saying I do not know what I am talking about?? Where do you get off with this self proclaiming Guru status? In my opinion you give bad advice to newbies. If a person with great genetics followed your advice they would not know that 250mg of sust may give them great gains and they could use far less gear at first. If you start at 1200mg where do you go from there? I have been around for a long time too and while I do have good genetics I suppose, I do not have great genetics, I just work hard and eat right with my gear use. I have never used HGH (yet) and I compete nationally as you know but it has taken me years to get to this level. Consistency is the key. If you require 1200mg your first time out of the gate to make gains you probably have no business using gear in the first place. If you have been in the "game" for 20 years what kind of gains have you made with these high doses. If you are not big as hell after 20 years of high doses you may need to ask is it worth the health risks? Do you compete? If no and you do not make great gains off high doses what is the point? If I did not compete I would not juice at all and if I did I certainly would not do high doses. I think people need to evaluate the risk to benefit ratio and see if it is worth the risk. 250 mg for 10 weeks poses no risk while 1200mg does without a doubt. So why not start low see how you react and proceed from there. Your line of thinking is irrational and poorly thought out. You need to consider people's well being and age as well as what gains that may make. This is not a game and these are drugs not benign substances........ As I write this it seems we had this discussion back when I came here. Looks like not much has changed huh. I am not trying to dog you, I am just trying to make some points.

Quad

 

[Ulter]

"If you have been in the "game" for 20 years what kind of gains have you made with these high doses."
I went from 160 to 255 in 3 years.

Most of the rest of what you posted centers around your belief that only competitors should use AS at normal cycling levels. Macro is 6 230, E2 6 240. Ranger 6 240. You are telling me that because they don't compete they shouldn't do the cycles they do. How do think they got that big? Have you ever seen an E2 cycle?You are a nice guy and well meaning but what possible business is it of yours why anyone uses AS.

A guru? Health risks?
I don't know about that but I have watched an awful lot of people cycle for very long periods and absolutely none of them have any health problems.

 

[Fleshcrawl]

bump

 

[Nelson Montana]

"You need to consider other peoples well being...this is not a game."

Well said Quadsweep. And it's something some people will never recognize.

ulter:160 to 255 in 3 years? Big deal. Getting big isn't difficult if you roid to the max and eat like a horse. Anyone can do it. Oddly enough, I've seen lots of guys who've grown like this, and they all look like bloated toads. No abs. No shape. Just big and puffy. And often fat.

Shit, Arnold was 30 pounds lighter than you when he won the '76 Olympia. Do you think you're that much more awesome than he was?

 

[Ulter]

I am sorry, I left out 9%.
Oops I was 240 at 9%. I was just reminded.

 

[Ulter]

Nelson WTF does Arnold have to do with anything here.
The discussion is about beginning doses for cycling and you're talking about what Arnold weighed at the O.
Arnold? Your first drunk? You need to put the cap back on your Whiteout bottle.
I don't measure my successes in life by how much I weigh or did weigh or will weigh. I simply answered a question put to me.
If you know Body Builders who can add 20 pounds of mass per year on 250mg then you have been on some other planet meeting them.

 

[Nelson Montana]

This reminds me of a time I said to someone: "You can drag a horse to water - but you can't make him drink." And the guys response was; "What does this have to do with horses?"

Maybe my analogies are too abtruse. So lets start fresh.

What works for one person, or what one person thinks is best, is ultimately irrelevant. Whenever you put something into your body, you're taking a risk and it's wise to test the waters. I've made the point before about starting slow, as have many others. Quadsweep put it well about getting the most from the least amount of juice. I believe anyone with an ounce of sense will understand that. Be that as it may, if someone wants to take four grams of test a week and a handful of Anadrol every five minutes, I say; "Enjoy yourself." But don't come back and say, "Gee, I never thought it would hurt me."

Or to use one last metaphorical comment: "A word to wise...isn't necessary. It's the fool who needs advice...but usually doesn't take it."

 

[Ulter]

And with that... you can have the last word.

 

[B-legit]

uhhh, did i miss something...
who said arnold competed in the 1976 mr. O...75' and 80' were his last "O" titles.

 

[Stan Ozolol]

Have only used winstrol, primo, and Eq in low dosages and have made phenominal gains. I started with 1 primo only cycle , 3 winstrol cycles, and just got done with Eq and Winstrol. Also used clen from time to time- started useing liquidex for last two cycles and always used clomid post cycle. Did those cycles over a course of 3.5 years and always kept protein intake high. I trained 5 days a week with intensity, worked on areas that needed work twice a week.
Started out below 170 pounds, now weigh a little over 2 bills yo. I was a skinny bitch now I'm huge. 6'2 2 bills. Need more size on arms though, so site injecting the V.
On top of that, the best thing about slow steady growth is you keep practically all your gains. Arnold even said you can tell the difference bertween a physique that has grown over time and has a good foundation than a physique that grew too quickly from impatience and abused the gear. The physique with the foundation rests better on the persons frame.