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It's true everyone's different, but by starting too low you waste your virgin receptors. Any guru worth a tab of Dbol will tell you that a "properly executed" First Cycle is your best cycle.
Newbie cycles that vets could learn from.
- Thread starter Realgains
- Start date
One comment to start.....receptors DO NOT respond better to juice as "Virgins". The reason early cycles are so successful is because one is usually not even at ones natural maximum weight (ie: a lean 190 at 5'9 or 10") The more lean muscle weight one gains the harder it is to produce further gains, it has nothing to do with virgin receptors.
LOW DOSES ARE PLENTY! Remember the VAST MAJORITY of men on this site are not even at their natural maximum weights.
SO....#1 learn how to eat rest and train properly first and gain a good deal of muscle WITHOUT steroids and then if you want to try them start small and be followed by your doctor.
One reason why some guys take so much damn juice is because they don't have a F-ing clue how to train properly . Train on the basic compound movements and train very hard with few sets and few days in the gym each week. Focus on progressive poundage increases weekly in small to tiny jumps....once the going gets tough 5 pounds per week even on the squat is too much. AND STOP reading those glossy magazines as they are full of shit! (for the vast majority)
TESTOSTERONE....most young lucky men produce about 70- 80 mg of testosterone per week, maybe 90 if you are really lucky. NOW LISTEN UP(sorry but I am a bit pissed) 250 mg of cyp minus ester weight gives about 180 mg of testosterone. That gives a bro OVER TWICE AS MUCH total test per week than one would get while natural!!! Any one that cannot gain well on that is doing something wrong for sure!
So 250-300mg of test per week is PLENTY for the average recreational lifter that isn't at his natural max weight...and how many of you guys are 5'9" and a lean 190 without steroids? NOT MANY! 500mg per week is the sane max dose of test in my books for this type of bro.
GO AHEAD and take that 750 mg ....you might gain a little better but I can tell you one thing you are going to have a lot more sides with that dose...be prepared for a lot of acne on average and some big time hair loss if you have the genetics for male pattern baldness and not a few men will have some prosate issure with this dose as well.
I gained very well with my first cycle which was only 400 of deca per week and I was already 205. You can take slightly larger doses with the milder hormones like deca and EQ. 250-300 of test will produce about the same gains as 400 of deca and maybe more in some.
Quadsweep kept around 20 pounds on his very first cycle and that was with 250 of sust per week....why you say??... BECAUSE HE KNEW HOW TO TRAIN, EAT AND REST PROPERLY.
Save the large doses for when you need them and that is when you are at least 10 pounds above your natural max weight. Then big doses often ARE INDEED NEEDED but why subject your body to the stress of large doses when you do not need to. Thats said ....how many of you are really looking to be a lean 250 pounds anyway...not that many I think.
RG
LOW DOSES ARE PLENTY! Remember the VAST MAJORITY of men on this site are not even at their natural maximum weights.
SO....#1 learn how to eat rest and train properly first and gain a good deal of muscle WITHOUT steroids and then if you want to try them start small and be followed by your doctor.
One reason why some guys take so much damn juice is because they don't have a F-ing clue how to train properly . Train on the basic compound movements and train very hard with few sets and few days in the gym each week. Focus on progressive poundage increases weekly in small to tiny jumps....once the going gets tough 5 pounds per week even on the squat is too much. AND STOP reading those glossy magazines as they are full of shit! (for the vast majority)
TESTOSTERONE....most young lucky men produce about 70- 80 mg of testosterone per week, maybe 90 if you are really lucky. NOW LISTEN UP(sorry but I am a bit pissed) 250 mg of cyp minus ester weight gives about 180 mg of testosterone. That gives a bro OVER TWICE AS MUCH total test per week than one would get while natural!!! Any one that cannot gain well on that is doing something wrong for sure!
So 250-300mg of test per week is PLENTY for the average recreational lifter that isn't at his natural max weight...and how many of you guys are 5'9" and a lean 190 without steroids? NOT MANY! 500mg per week is the sane max dose of test in my books for this type of bro.
GO AHEAD and take that 750 mg ....you might gain a little better but I can tell you one thing you are going to have a lot more sides with that dose...be prepared for a lot of acne on average and some big time hair loss if you have the genetics for male pattern baldness and not a few men will have some prosate issure with this dose as well.
I gained very well with my first cycle which was only 400 of deca per week and I was already 205. You can take slightly larger doses with the milder hormones like deca and EQ. 250-300 of test will produce about the same gains as 400 of deca and maybe more in some.
Quadsweep kept around 20 pounds on his very first cycle and that was with 250 of sust per week....why you say??... BECAUSE HE KNEW HOW TO TRAIN, EAT AND REST PROPERLY.
Save the large doses for when you need them and that is when you are at least 10 pounds above your natural max weight. Then big doses often ARE INDEED NEEDED but why subject your body to the stress of large doses when you do not need to. Thats said ....how many of you are really looking to be a lean 250 pounds anyway...not that many I think.
RG
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Newbies to juice really need to listen because Real is correct. Start with low dosages. It will save you $$ and you will have some place to go. I see all these cycles on the boards that look like mine after 8 years of gear use. Hell I do not think I was over 750mg after 7 years and I was competing as a heavyweight! Start low you can always go up.
Quad
Quad
ulter said:
You can't be serious Ulter?!
1000mg-1350mg of gear for a first cycle! Remember bro most of these guys are not even at their natural maximum weight so that is way over kill and a waste of money.
Maybe if you are truely AT your natural max then this dose MIGHT not be too much but how many on this board are doing their first cycle after years of training naturally to reach their natural max weight?...NOT MANY BRO.
The recreational lifter looking to get to his natural max weight and a little higher need to not use more than 500mg of test per week IF he is even a "half assed" bodybuilder.
Leave the bigger doses for when you are at least 10 pounds above your natural max weight( ie: 200 pounds of pretty lean mass at 5'9 or 10")
RG
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Quad, what you can get away with and what the average guy can get away with are very far apart.
Real, Yes I am serious. How long have you been cycling? How long have you been watching all your friends get into it and start their cycles?
You've been around this game for a year now. This time last year you didn't know a damn thing about steroid cycling.
I have been doing this for neary 20 years I have seen HUNDREDS of guys start down this road and I know from experience that your 250mg/wk is a waste. Way back on page 1-2 of this thread I posted that the risks of infection, the law, acne, balding, etc are all the same at 250 as they are at 750 and the gains are not.
Don't take any of this personally bro. But you and quad don't WTF you're talking about when it comes to this subject.
Real, Yes I am serious. How long have you been cycling? How long have you been watching all your friends get into it and start their cycles?
You've been around this game for a year now. This time last year you didn't know a damn thing about steroid cycling.
I have been doing this for neary 20 years I have seen HUNDREDS of guys start down this road and I know from experience that your 250mg/wk is a waste. Way back on page 1-2 of this thread I posted that the risks of infection, the law, acne, balding, etc are all the same at 250 as they are at 750 and the gains are not.
Don't take any of this personally bro. But you and quad don't WTF you're talking about when it comes to this subject.
Texas Ranger
New member
Oh!! Oh!!
This is the thing...
All opinion is based on perspective. For example: In my younger days I could really sock away the booze. Never had a "problem" but I developed a pretty good tolerence. These days I hardly drink and one beer gets me buzzed. Now if someone told me 15 years ago that one beer got them bzzed I'd either laugh, tell them they didn't know what they were talking about, or called them a pussy.
The fact of the matter is, although RG may be new to this, he's absolutely right. If someone can make gains without sauce, doubling their tetosterone can only increase their muscle building capabilities. Someone who doesn't see that has either gone too far over the edge with drugs or doesn't now how to train.
Now Quad is a guy who MUST take high dosages. For the rest of us, taking competive dosages is just stupid. It's like buying a $20,000.00 set of golf clubs to go play miniature golf. If Quad is a guy who knows how to use high dose anabolics successully and yet is aware that newbies don't need a lot of gear, saying that he does't know what he's talking about is utter (or ulter, as the case may be) foolishness.
I had the utmost respect for Dan Duchaine, but he was wrong on this one. But Dan liked to fuck with people, ya know? I wonder if he believed it himself.
Bill Roberts is just an idiot and a quote from him is meaningless.
Saying that you make the most of your first cycle is as stupid as saying; "The first time you drink alcohol, you should drink as much as possible o get the best high of your life!" It's just idiotic. But if you can't see that, there's probably nothing anyone can say to change your mind.
All opinion is based on perspective. For example: In my younger days I could really sock away the booze. Never had a "problem" but I developed a pretty good tolerence. These days I hardly drink and one beer gets me buzzed. Now if someone told me 15 years ago that one beer got them bzzed I'd either laugh, tell them they didn't know what they were talking about, or called them a pussy.
The fact of the matter is, although RG may be new to this, he's absolutely right. If someone can make gains without sauce, doubling their tetosterone can only increase their muscle building capabilities. Someone who doesn't see that has either gone too far over the edge with drugs or doesn't now how to train.
Now Quad is a guy who MUST take high dosages. For the rest of us, taking competive dosages is just stupid. It's like buying a $20,000.00 set of golf clubs to go play miniature golf. If Quad is a guy who knows how to use high dose anabolics successully and yet is aware that newbies don't need a lot of gear, saying that he does't know what he's talking about is utter (or ulter, as the case may be) foolishness.
I had the utmost respect for Dan Duchaine, but he was wrong on this one. But Dan liked to fuck with people, ya know? I wonder if he believed it himself.
Bill Roberts is just an idiot and a quote from him is meaningless.
Saying that you make the most of your first cycle is as stupid as saying; "The first time you drink alcohol, you should drink as much as possible o get the best high of your life!" It's just idiotic. But if you can't see that, there's probably nothing anyone can say to change your mind.
Texas Ranger
New member
First off, let me say I RESPECT all of your advice and opinions(RealGains, Quadsweep, Ulter, Nelson, etc..). I'm not on par with ANY of you guys, scientifically or in experience. But, I would say moderate doses should(can) be used. Somewhere between the 750-1000mgs of Test and 600mgs of EQ that Ulter advocates and 250mgs of Test that Realgains advises. IMO, I would NEVER, EVER advise any newbie to start out with 1000mgs of Test because I wouldn't do it. Plus I feel that it's just not needed, but hey that's me. What do I know??
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