Nelson Montana - Short cycle questions

[Smurfi]

@ Nelson

all the years before you recommended in your articles and books 3 week short cycles ( + 1 week orals).

Now I read that you doubled it up to 6 weeks.

any reason for that change ?

did you get much better gains with 6 weeks cycles than
with the 3- 4 weekers ?

is hpta recovery not much worse with a 6 weeker, compared to a 3- 4 weeker ? ( not to speak of 2-3 weeks
longer bad blood lipids !!!!!!!)

do you recommend to inject still in the last 6th week ( which would be a 8-weeker !) or should one stop after 30 days, so that at the end of the 6th one is totally off and recovery of HPTA can beginn ?
( when one uses Primobolan +Test, should both injected
the same length or should test be stopped earlier, because it is more suppressive ?)


in some threads I read that you increased the dosage of Primobolan from 400 (older articles) up to 500/600-800mg ?
why that ?

many advocates of short cycles in other forums criticize
about your cycle plans, that there is no frontload
at the very beginning.
a frontload would bring the steroid level quickly up to a level, which would otherwise need a few weeks. is that not
very important for a short cycle with a long ester ?

in your book Bottom line Bodybuilding you wrote a chapter
called PERFECT CYCLE.
in this 3-4 weeks cycle you use Primobolan - methenolone - as the main steroid +
2 stackers : Testo and Dianabol ( 2n week anavar, 3rd Winstrol).
would it be a bad idea to use a small amount of Testo and
Dianabol - methandrostenolone - as stackers for 6 weeks ? ( maybe Dbol only in the beginning, as a kickstart or at the end , when one stops injecting after 30 days and levels go down)

do you think that 500 mg of Testo (as a stacker) would be too much suppressive ?


Thanks !!!

 

[Nelson Montana]

@ Nelson

all the years before you recommended in your articles and books 3 week short cycles ( + 1 week orals).

Now I read that you doubled it up to 6 weeks.

any reason for that change ?

.........................................................................

*****

Technically, my recommendation was 4 weeks (stop injections after 3 weeks, continue with orals for another). At the time this was a radical approach but it was based on the fact that A: the body is most receptive to any drug in the early stages, and B: supression begins to compound severely after that period. Also, smaller gains are easier to keep. There are other reasons but it's too lengthy to get into here. No one had ever explored this method before I wrote about it. Not publicly or in print at least. Remember, this was 10 years ago. Things were very different.





.........................................................

did you get much better gains with 6 weeks cycles than
with the 3- 4 weekers ?



......................................................

******


I found that it was possible to get good gains further into the cycle and with improved PC T, 6 weeks was viable. After that, supression increases expodentially and PC T has less of an effect. realize, none of this was an exact science but it's important to question standard thinking. In doing so, many of the theories I had which were "against the grain" have been accepted, are regarded as preferable and in many cases proven to be the most efficaceous.






..........................................................







is hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - recovery not much worse with a 6 weeker, compared to a 3- 4 weeker ? ( not to speak of 2-3 weeks
longer bad blood lipids !!!!!!!)


.....................................................

*****

I never advocated 2-3 weekers. That was a protocol which was essentially a rip off of my findings. The funny thing is, the then popular guru who stole it not only didn't acknowledge where he got the concept frpm, he tried to discredit me! Thus is the ego and infantile nature of many of the so called experts in the field.




................................................................................

do you recommend to inject still in the last 6th week ( which would be a 8-weeker !) or should one stop after 30 days, so that at the end of the 6th one is totally off and recovery of HPTA can beginn ?
( when one uses Primobolan +Test, should both injected
the same length or should test be stopped earlier, because it is more suppressive ?)


........................................................................

*******


It depends on how exact you want to be. Will a week one way or the other make much of a difference? Maybe not, but at some point you have to be willing to pull the plug if you want to stay safe. For extra details and specifics for any individuals program I give one on one consultations. In this format I have to speak a little more "generally."





..................................................................



in some threads I read that you increased the dosage of Primobolan from 400 (older articles) up to 500/600-800mg ?
why that ?



...............................................................

********

No, I usually recommend 400. Maybe in some cases where guys were doing a gram of test and 600 mgs of Decca, and testosterone propionate and dball (yes, crazy but just a couple of years ago, this was the norm -- even recomended to beginners!) So I might have said, "try 600-800 of Primmo instead, which is obviously a lot smarter.



......................................................................................

many advocates of short cycles in other forums criticize
about your cycle plans, that there is no frontload
at the very beginning.
a frontload would bring the steroid level quickly up to a level, which would otherwise need a few weeks. is that not
very important for a short cycle with a long ester ?




.....................................................

*******


Finding fault with the work of people who actually create something is the favorite passtime of internet experts so that doesn't surprise me nor do I find it necessary to address every erroneous assumption and accusation. Esters have very little to do with how quickly blood levels rise. This is a common misunderstanding.



...............................................

in your book Bottom line Bodybuilding you wrote a chapter
called PERFECT CYCLE.
in this 3-4 weeks cycle you use Primobolan - methenolone - as the main steroid +
2 stackers : Testo and Dianabol ( 2n week anavar, 3rd Winstrol).
would it be a bad idea to use a small amount of Testo and
Dianabol - methandrostenolone - as stackers for 6 weeks ? ( maybe Dianabol - methandrostenolone - only in the beginning, as a kickstart or at the end , when one stops injecting after 30 days and levels go down)

.........................................................



**********


That program was more of a "Elite, gold standard" cycle which was more of a "dream" cycle. It would work great but it's splitting hairs in regard to results. Using Anavar - oxandrolone - or winnie at the end makes sense to maintain anobolism while giving the HPTA a head start toward recovery. One could use Proviron at that point too which is even less supressive but doesn;t do much in reagrd to building muscle.


.................................................................



do you think that 500 mg of Testo (as a stacker) would be too much suppressive ?


...................................................

**********

I think it's too much. Elevating T levels is obviously a part of growing muscle but once it gets far beyond what the body can incorporate, it's really overkill. 500 mgs will raise T to over 3000ngs. Nobody has that much T and the body isn't meant to tolerate it. Let the nitrogen retention build the muscle and use the test as a "kicker."


Thanks !!


....................................................................

************


You're welcome.


!

..

 

[artificialaspirations]

good post nelson

short cycles seem to be the way to go, especially if one wants to avoid suspicion; ie getting to big to fast

 

[2raptors]

VERY GOOD POST BY THE POSTER Karma to you dude!>>>>AND GREAT response Nelson...

my wife had an interesting question that I did not consider..and I'll post itin a different thread...

Cheers

M

 

[centy]

..For extra details and specifics for any individuals program I give one on one consultations.

Really? How does one get more info on that?

 

[ProtienFiend]

Anyone do a 4 weeker of tren? or tren + something?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Really? How does one get more info on that?

Big Rick is working on a program right now where it'll be available through the site. It's a matter of working out schedules and such. In the meantime, shoot me a PM.

 

[BigGuyPHX]

GREAT Questions!!!
GREAT Answers Nelson!!!

I was wondering some of the same things.

 

[big greg 82]

hollaaaaaaaaa

 

[BigGuyPHX]

Nelson or anyone...
What about some of the talk about the pro's of the 70's that did these short dboll low does cycles???(True False Maybe) Was this not a effective way to build muscle mass and avoid serious sides??? Was this the way to avoid sides and why PCT - post cycle therapy - was so over looked???

I feel the pros back then had a higher quality look to them and wonder how much it had to do with the gear they ran, how long of cycles, and dose???

I personally like the idea of a 6 week cycle but wonder if I am just being old school too much???