Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Cardio I feel is very important. Since I started doing 10 minutes of cardio after every workout my general health has increased alot. I workout every other day, so I only get 30-40 minutes of cardio a week. It hasn't interfered with my gains. In fact I feel it might have even helped my gains. It's nice being able to use the stairs instead of waiting for the elevator. Stairs would have killed me before I started cardio. My .02
Nelson Montana-I'm calling you out!
- Thread starter Bigsatan13
- Start date
Nelson Montana said:
Here's the thing; if you're talking about cardio being counter-productive, to the point where it's doing more harm than good, then I think you're classifying people all wrong. It's not the "genetic monsters" who are the small minority of the population, it's the ecto of all ectos that is in fact the very small minority. We have statistics of the high % of people who are obese and / or overweight. What percentage of the population is grossly UNDERweight, and not by choice? Because with what you say, that is the only possible conceivable group you're going to benefit (and that's only if you're looking to gain more muscle, not improve overall health).
I would not judge being able to run a 10-12 minute mile as good cardio vascular health. My mother, well into her 50's, runs under a 12 minute mile, and my dad, about an 8 or so. And they're not running fanatics, just once or twice a week, then moderate cardio as they see the need. They're not the skinny runner types either, average, but muscular people. --Cardio is boring? Headphones. Also, running really bothers my bad back, solution? I use the Precor (non impact) exclusively, maybe the recumbant bike once a month.
What was I doing in 97'? I had finished my first post-graduate degree, and while working I was about to begin the program I'm 4 months from finishing now (JD). What I do has involved publishing a number of works, and to this day, I have not recanted a single word, even pre-97. We're just going to have to disagree. But anyone thinking about xing the cardio, I would think again.
(d_a_w: And Dexter Jackson is not a good example, he is a 1 in a 1,000,000 freak, anyone looking at him, hoping it's possible to look ANYTHING like that without cardio,...go buy a lottery ticket).
Mischeif: There's a touch of irony that your signiture quote is one of my favorite examples of a dumb, specious expression. Sometimes what doesn't destroy you leaves you with irreperable damage.
Anyway, if I never run yet can run a 10 minute mile easily I'm not in good cardiovascular health? My pulse is 65 and my blood pressure is perfect. You see, I do exercise. In case you haven't heard, weightlifting is exercise.
I used to think as you do, that aerobics were just bad for ectos, but that isn't the case. I've had dozens of clients back when I was doing personal training and every endo did better with more weight training and less cardio.
Why the fuck should I ride a recumbant bike when I ride a real one? Do stationary bikes have some magical ability to burn fat that real ones don't?
Headphones? I have too much respect for music to use it as a distraction. If it's good, I want to listen to it, not train. I also have too much repect for the training process to attempt being distracted. Thanks for the suggestion though. I would never have thought of that myself.
Dexter Jackson is a one in 10000000 freak? Am I? Are the people I've trained? Are the people who've written to me who swear they have more energy and fuller, shaplier muscles since they stopped doing aerobics? What about Mike Menzter? I disagreed with him on a lot of stuff but he didn't do cardio and was pretty cut. Remember Zabo Kozewski? Unbelieveable definition. No cardio. How about Vince Gironda? No cardio. Charles Poliquin? No cardio. Dorian just used the bike for a warm up.
Aerobics are simply a less effective form of exercise than weight training. They have no magical fat burning power. They are no better at providing cardiovascular health than high rep, fast paced weight training.
Some people get it and some some people don't.
Anyway, if I never run yet can run a 10 minute mile easily I'm not in good cardiovascular health? My pulse is 65 and my blood pressure is perfect. You see, I do exercise. In case you haven't heard, weightlifting is exercise.
I used to think as you do, that aerobics were just bad for ectos, but that isn't the case. I've had dozens of clients back when I was doing personal training and every endo did better with more weight training and less cardio.
Why the fuck should I ride a recumbant bike when I ride a real one? Do stationary bikes have some magical ability to burn fat that real ones don't?
Headphones? I have too much respect for music to use it as a distraction. If it's good, I want to listen to it, not train. I also have too much repect for the training process to attempt being distracted. Thanks for the suggestion though. I would never have thought of that myself.
Dexter Jackson is a one in 10000000 freak? Am I? Are the people I've trained? Are the people who've written to me who swear they have more energy and fuller, shaplier muscles since they stopped doing aerobics? What about Mike Menzter? I disagreed with him on a lot of stuff but he didn't do cardio and was pretty cut. Remember Zabo Kozewski? Unbelieveable definition. No cardio. How about Vince Gironda? No cardio. Charles Poliquin? No cardio. Dorian just used the bike for a warm up.
Aerobics are simply a less effective form of exercise than weight training. They have no magical fat burning power. They are no better at providing cardiovascular health than high rep, fast paced weight training.
Some people get it and some some people don't.
chronic2371
New member
Nelson Montana said:
When speaking of the strains cardio puts on the knees, lower back, ankles and shins was Dr. Cooper talking about all forms of cardio, even non impact (ellipticals, bikes) or just running?
sauerbrauten
New member
I have to agree with Nelson...karma to you
S
Spartacus
Guest
Nelson Montana said:
Nelson Montana said:
1) Look up "irony", that's not irony. It's a common sense thing Nelson. It's not saying, "I could intentionally go break my femur, and it would hurt, a lot, but I would live, and I'll be better or stronger because of it." It's situational. See, apply it to the discipline in dieting, or sacraficing luxuries when necessary. Apply it to training in the gym, and pushing with every ounce of energy humanly possible. Anything can sound stupid with a non-sensical application. Just use some common sense, and I believe it's quite helpful.
2) I never said riding real bikes was any worse, in fact I love riding bikes. Any non-impact cardio is fine, I'm not sure where you got that from.
3) Your headphone comment makes zero sense to me. If I can train, and push harder, by being "distracted" by music, instead of thinking about muscle or cardiovascular failure, I'll do it. I have no doubt, that even as mentally tough as I am, with Slayer, or Biohazard etc blasting in my ears, somehow, I'm able to push even harder. I think most people agree. I too enjoy and appreciate music, especially when I'm not training, but I have NO idea what that has to do with anything.
4) No you're not a genetic freak, nor are ANY of your clients. And you, nor them, will EVER look ANYTHING like Dexter, that's my point. I'd be willing to bet $1,000 to your your $1, that not a single client under your philosiphy could even stand next to Dex on stage. THAT is what makes him a freak, a lucky freak granted.
Also, when Dorian was dieting for shows, he did up to 2 hours of cardio a day, get your facts straight and quit making things up.
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Mischief said:
OK, I've spoken with Dorian before, and he told me the upper end of his cardio was 2 hours. But, here, I actually back up my statements instead of just pulling them out of my butt. Dorian is the only reputable name on your list for Bodybuilding purposes. And it appears as though he's no longer on your list of "fine atheletes who don't do cardio." I'm curious how many others you just make up. Here's a sample of an interview done with him "fairly" recently.
"BDJ: Even in respects to metabolic conditioning and reducing fat stores, there must be enough volume. Casey Viator made a comment in the Summer 2000 Exercise Protocol that he often approached overtraining by the time he competed. He had to do so much to get into the condition he wanted to be in and that it was that different from off-season mass building training.
Dorian Yates: I don't agree with that. Obviously if you do more activity you're going to burn more calories. Building muscle is exactly that, and maintaining muscle is basically the same thing. The idea is to reduce body fat by having a negative calorie balance and by increasing your calorie burning expenditure. I don't believe increasing the volume of weight training workouts is an efficient way of doing it. It will work, but I prefer an aerobic approach, being more of a pure fat burner.
BDJ: How do you apply your aerobic training when preparing for a contest.
Dorian Yates: The weight training I did in the off-season and in-season was pretty much the same. So, to burn the fat, besides lowering calories, I performed aerobics up to one hour a day. I did half-hour in the morning and half-hour in the evening, or as needed. It wasn't high intensity aerobic training, but low in intensity, so I used primarily fat for energy. You can lose fat by increasing exercises and sets, but you run the risk of being more catabolic and losing muscle tissue. It makes it more difficult to recover from a higher than normal volume of training as well."
Jeez Nelson, seems to fly right in the face of your, "exercise is the only calorie burning expenditure you need to get ripped", huh? No more using Dorian as an example...
Warmachine
New member
Nelson- not trying to pick a fight here, im just making an observation.
Apparently you have alot of knowledge to share, but on the board you dont share it . At first i thought it was to make peaple go buy your book. What you tell us on here are statements like this "Dont do that its bad" and then you dont elaborate...
For instance, look at this thread. You say dont do cardio, ok fine. How do you lose fat then? If you reduce calories drastically, you lose muscle, thats one of the hard lessons ive learned.
anyway, i dont intend this to be an attack. Im just disapointed that you dont share your knowledge, because thats what this board is about.
Apparently you have alot of knowledge to share, but on the board you dont share it . At first i thought it was to make peaple go buy your book. What you tell us on here are statements like this "Dont do that its bad" and then you dont elaborate...
For instance, look at this thread. You say dont do cardio, ok fine. How do you lose fat then? If you reduce calories drastically, you lose muscle, thats one of the hard lessons ive learned.
anyway, i dont intend this to be an attack. Im just disapointed that you dont share your knowledge, because thats what this board is about.
FreakMonster
New member
So has anyone read his book? Is there any good info in there?
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