Need quick advice for 5x5

[ellinghad]

Read on the forums that 5x5 shouldn't be done to failure. I do (in lbs) 165, 175, 185, 195, 205 100% of the time without failure, but if I add 5 pounds to each of these I have 100% failure (sometimes on the 4th set!!). Are these correct increments to be adding weight to the barbell? How much weight should I add on between every set? This is for bench press, and I also do the 5x5 on squats and deads too (with the same weight progression). Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[blut wump]

Looks like you're doing fine.

Choosing the weight to start the ramp and exactly how to ramp to that top set are as personal as the weight of the top set itself and depends, mostly, on your level of conditioning and how much rest you take between sets.

Someone else could be starting down at 135 and ramping to 205 while another, with better conditioning, might be starting at 190 for a very tight ramp. They're all good.

 

[Guinness5.0]

You don't have to addd weight to each set- You want to focus on the top set.

Are you running the Bill Starr 5x5 or just using a 5x5 rep scheme?

 

[Micker]

What week are you on?? The first couple weeks you should be using weights that onthe last set you are not at failure. The 3rd week you will probably be close to failure on your last set/rep, and the 4th week, if planned right, the last rep should be failure(aka-you couldn't do another unassisted rep).

You have to choose light weight the first week and then add weight each week. If you are at failure on your 4th set, then you planned your weight selection poorly. Lower the weight or keep the weight the same and try again next workout with it. Don't add weight if you can't complete the 5 sets. Also remember you can add 5lbs., you don't need to add 10lbs. every set. Like 155,165,175,180,185,190 if you want.

 

[ellinghad]

Oh OK. I am on my second week doing this, and to be totally honest I'm not sure if I'm using the Bill Starr 5x5 thing. I read a bunch of 5x5 posts and thought I'd give it a try.

So I guess what I'm hearing is that adding weight (or even keeping the same weight) is pretty versatile as I can increase at almost any comfortable rate?

 

[Guinness5.0]

If I remember right, you are fairly new to lifting? If you've been at it less than 2 years (give or take) I'd say you need to run this one:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15

Don't modify/substitute/change it. Start conservatively so that you are guaranteed to move the weights upward for a month or so. The changes will be incremental but will add up over time adn end up being most efficient in the long run.

Good luck and ask away if that needs clarification.

 

[Kane Fan]

What week are you on?? The first couple weeks you should be using weights that onthe last set you are not at failure. The 3rd week you will probably be close to failure on your last set/rep, and the 4th week, if planned right, the last rep should be failure(aka-you couldn't do another unassisted rep).

You have to choose light weight the first week and then add weight each week. If you are at failure on your 4th set, then you planned your weight selection poorly. Lower the weight or keep the weight the same and try again next workout with it. Don't add weight if you can't complete the 5 sets. Also remember you can add 5lbs., you don't need to add 10lbs. every set. Like 155,165,175,180,185,190 if you want.

I was actually thinking 10 lb jumps are probubly good for Squat and Deadlift but for Bench 5lbs might be better

 

[ellinghad]

I'll try that out tonight!

 

[Micker]

I am on my second week doing this

Yeah, then you WAY overshot your weights. The hardest part of 5x5 is judging how much weight to do. I think a good rule is to see what you can do for 5 reps before you start and aim to hit that on the 3rd week, maybe shoot a little higher. On the 4th week you try to beat your best 5 rep max.

I would start over or do the routine Guinness posted. Just start EASY and add weights. Adding weights every week is also very mentally rewarding.

 

[wooldog]

I was actually thinking 10 lb jumps are probubly good for Squat and Deadlift but for Bench 5lbs might be better

Oh Oh. Well I'm trying the 5 x 5 DF even though I'm a beginner. I just wanted to give it a shot for fun.

And when I do the 1 x 5 days for bench my jumps are like 20 pounds. For example last week I did 1 X 5 @ 95, 115, 135, 155 and 195 as my top set , which was a PR. Is this wrong?

If I start heavier I won't be able to finish with as much weight. Which way is preferable?

 

[blut wump]

As a beginner you'd have been better off with the single factor. I'll even go so far as to say that you might be unable to over-reach in the four weeks. It's all a learning experience, though. Take a look at Anotherbutter's Single-Factor log; it might make you a convert.

Regarding the weight selection and progression within your workout, someone who has been training longer is likely to start their working ramp higher than someone who has been training less. I tend to think that anything below 40% of your top set is too low to be considered a work set but it might be appropriate for you at this stage. If it's working for you then stick with it until it no longer does.

 

[anotherbutters]

ellinghad, from your other posts, it seems you just want to lose bodyfat, even though you're already pretty lean. Losing bodyfat is done in the kitchen, by eating less than you burn. You just need to reduce the number of calories you eat and burn off a bit more by doing more cardio. And since you're eating less, you need to pay attention to what you eat, so that you get the most out of it. Keep eating plenty of protein to help hold onto the muscle you have and get plenty of vits and minerals from your veggies.

When you're cutting, you won't be eating enough to build new muscle mass, so your goal is to hold onto what muscle you can. The 5x5, whether you're at the single or dual factor stage, is good for packing on muscle and getting stronger, but you won't be eating enough to make the weight increases. All you can do is hope to use the exercises to help keep the muscle you have.

From the photos you've posted elsewhere, you already have a look that a lot of people aspire to, yet you seem to be fairly new to this, so I can only assume you're naturally very lean. I think you might like your look more if you had more muscle rather than less fat. If you eat more, follow something like the single factor 5x5 as linked to by Guinness, then I suspect you'll be able to put on more muscle without much more bodyfat. So your overall bodyfat percentage might stay about the same, but you'll be a bit bigger and look better.

Something else I might point out is that if you decide to carry on trying to get cut and you're successful, but then decide you want to put on a bit of muscle, you might well come back to your current level of bodyfat before the muscle gains start. I say you should eat a bit more and get a bit bigger and see how you like it.

 

[anotherbutters]

wooldog, yeh, I would say jump onto the single factor if you're a beginner as the gains will actually come faster. Why waste time loading and deloading when you can get away with just increasing the weights week by week?

There's nothing 'wrong' with starting at 95lb, but it is fairly low. If you can do 195lb for your top set, then you ought to be able to start the earlier sets a bit higher, unless you're conditioning is way off (which is a nice way of saying 'very unfit' ).

I play mine by ear, but my first sets seem to be around 60-70% of the top set.

 

[ellinghad]

If I remember right, you are fairly new to lifting? If you've been at it less than 2 years (give or take) I'd say you need to run this one:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15

Don't modify/substitute/change it. Start conservatively so that you are guaranteed to move the weights upward for a month or so. The changes will be incremental but will add up over time adn end up being most efficient in the long run.

Good luck and ask away if that needs clarification.

Only a few questions! What are weighted hypers? I don't know what powercleans are, but we aren't allowed to do ANY olympic lifting on campus (supposedly more dangerous). What are high pulls? And I'm assuming "triceps and biceps" means choose any exercise for them? Like skullcrushers or standin g preacher curls for triceps/biceps, respectively? Besides those questions, I am real interested in starting this! (I am getting whey protein today (for the first time) too!!!) Thanks for your really really really helpful post!

 

[ellinghad]

ellinghad, from your other posts, it seems you just want to lose bodyfat, even though you're already pretty lean. Losing bodyfat is done in the kitchen, by eating less than you burn. You just need to reduce the number of calories you eat and burn off a bit more by doing more cardio. And since you're eating less, you need to pay attention to what you eat, so that you get the most out of it. Keep eating plenty of protein to help hold onto the muscle you have and get plenty of vits and minerals from your veggies.

When you're cutting, you won't be eating enough to build new muscle mass, so your goal is to hold onto what muscle you can. The 5x5, whether you're at the single or dual factor stage, is good for packing on muscle and getting stronger, but you won't be eating enough to make the weight increases. All you can do is hope to use the exercises to help keep the muscle you have.

From the photos you've posted elsewhere, you already have a look that a lot of people aspire to, yet you seem to be fairly new to this, so I can only assume you're naturally very lean. I think you might like your look more if you had more muscle rather than less fat. If you eat more, follow something like the single factor 5x5 as linked to by Guinness, then I suspect you'll be able to put on more muscle without much more bodyfat. So your overall bodyfat percentage might stay about the same, but you'll be a bit bigger and look better.

Something else I might point out is that if you decide to carry on trying to get cut and you're successful, but then decide you want to put on a bit of muscle, you might well come back to your current level of bodyfat before the muscle gains start. I say you should eat a bit more and get a bit bigger and see how you like it.

When you say bigger, I hope you mean just muscle, because I like looking thin but buff! Over the past couple of weeks I have slimmed up even more and I love it! I wouldn't mind getting bigger, so long as it's all muscle . I plan on eating very healthily, and with my high metabolism I wonder if I can maintain bodyfat% AND gain size? Someone even told me when you get more muscle your metabolism raises, so I was looking at it from that perspective. I like being strong, but I don't want to be this big bulky guy ... so is that possible? Thanks again!!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/ellinghad/me/Untitled-2.jpg

 

[Kane Fan]

it's possible you are not taking enough rest time between sets
if your best set is 195 and it was best by how much
cus you have to look atyour previous best and say well if that' smy best set of 5 I shouldn't really be taxed at 95x5 or 115x5
but if it worked and got you a new pr I can't see complaining about it you know

 

[Cynical Simian]

Only a few questions! What are weighted hypers? I don't know what powercleans are, but we aren't allowed to do ANY olympic lifting on campus (supposedly more dangerous). What are high pulls? And I'm assuming "triceps and biceps" means choose any exercise for them? Like skullcrushers or standin g preacher curls for triceps/biceps, respectively? Besides those questions, I am real interested in starting this! (I am getting whey protein today (for the first time) too!!!) Thanks for your really really really helpful post!

Just use the recommended substitutes for the Olympic lifts. When Guinness said not to change anything, I think he was referring to the main compound lifts (i.e. no BB-style "I think I'm gonna replace the squats with some machine isolation work" crap). You can use some discretion on what and how much of the other, more aesthetic stuff you include. Skullcrushers and curls would be good tri and bi choices.

I started lifting with the single-factor and am at the end of my seventh week on it. If you eat healthy foods, keep your caloric surplus at a reasonable level and do cardio, you should be able to gain quite a bit of muscle and strength without adding much bodyfat.

 

[Guinness5.0]

Just use the recommended substitutes for the Olympic lifts. When Guinness said not to change anything, I think he was referring to the main compound lifts (i.e. no BB-style "I think I'm gonna replace the squats with some machine isolation work" crap). You can use some discretion on what and how much of the other, more aesthetic stuff you include. Skullcrushers and curls would be good tri and bi choices.

I started lifting with the single-factor and am at the end of my seventh week on it. If you eat healthy foods, keep your caloric surplus at a reasonable level and do cardio, you should be able to gain quite a bit of muscle and strength without adding much bodyfat.

exactly

sub pendlay rows for cleans and deadlifts for high pulls. There's a link about rowing in the huge 5x5 thread.

As far as fat gain, like what has been said already, just suck it up for a little while and cut later. Someone with your physique will more than likely have trouble eating enough to gain muscle once you get past newbie status. Once the easy gains stop you're gonna have to log some hours at the kitchen table to progress.