n00bie here - Planned cycle, advice please.

[617ricky]

So I have a cycle planned out a few months down the road. I was planning on doing 10 wks of Test enanthate @ 500mg/wk, and 5 wks of Fina in the middle at 50mg/ED or EOD, not sure yet.

Now I wanna have all my bases covered:

propecia - already on it.
accutane - will be using a low dose during the cycle.
arimidex - planning on 0.5mg day (I'll have 40mg, so say 11.5 wks worth)

The thing I'm really thinking over is the clomid. I'm gonna have 2500mg, so say 50 50mg pills. Now I'm wondering if I should just take 25mg/day the whole 10 wk cycle, and then up it to 50mg/day for another 2 wks til it's gone - but I dunno if this is the best approach.

Would I be better off waiting til the cycle is over, and hitting it harder with the usual 300mg 1st day, 200mg 2nd day, 100mg for 1 wk, 50mg for 2-3 wks type thing? I wanna make sure I don't crash, and I'm not sure if it's better to do it like this, or just take a smaller dose the whole cycle so I never "shut down".

What do you guys think? And I also read about guys taking nolvadex post-cycle as well for a few wks w/ the clomid. Would this be necessary and/or beneficial for me? I mean, I'm gonna be taking the arimidex the whole time. But about the clomid - what do you guys think?

 

[FutureMD]

stats

 

[Cardinal Slin]

all bases covered would also mean something for prog sides of tren - dostinex or prami

Cycle itself at test and tren looks great - 50mgs daily prefered over 100mgs eod on tren as many including myself feel this lessens the severity of sides (sweating, insomnia and acne for me).

Maybe try winstrol with test or anavar with test for a first run - once you try tren, you never want to use anything else ever again and save the powerful thing for the 2nd, 3rd or 4th run. Results without tren on a first cycle will be solid in any case

 

[joe d]

if this is your first cycle i would leave out the tren and get some more pct products.

 

[617ricky]

if this is your first cycle i would leave out the tren and get some more pct products.

This isn't my 1st, I did a cycle about 4 yrs ago of test/deca/dbol, semi high doses [higher than what I plan on with this cycle], and I stretched it out to like 12 wks.. At the end I only had a couple wks worth of clomid, and I wouldn't say I "crashed", but I definitely cut down on my lifting. I was also dumb about the way I did it, I didn't lift long enough before I did it, I just kinda dove into it.. But I was able to handle it, and I definitely got solid results..

This time around, I've already been lifting/eating right for a few months, and I plan on doing the cycle in another few months after a solid 6 months of lifting. So basically, when I start the cycle, I'm gonna be at where I was when I ended my last cycle.

What do you recommend for more/other pct products?
And what about the other things related to tren sides?

I don't feel like 500mg test for 10wks, and 50mg/day tren for 5 wks is too crazy of a cycle. So do you guys think the 40mg arimidex and 2500mg clomid will be enough for me?

 

[digimon7068]

all bases covered would also mean something for prog sides of tren - dostinex or prami

Cycle itself at test and tren looks great - 50mgs daily prefered over 100mgs eod on tren as many including myself feel this lessens the severity of sides (sweating, insomnia and acne for me).

Maybe try winstrol with test or anavar with test for a first run - once you try tren, you never want to use anything else ever again and save the powerful thing for the 2nd, 3rd or 4th run. Results without tren on a first cycle will be solid in any case

funny. . .i didn't find that to be true. . .to each his own, i s'pose. . .

 

[617ricky]

How bout if I put it like this - 500mg/wk test @ 10 wks + 50mg/day tren @ 5 wks -- what is the best route to go for pct, and combating estrogen-related sides during the cycle? Could 40mg arimidex and 2500 clomid be enough?

 

[azul]

How bout if I put it like this - 500mg/wk test @ 10 wks + 50mg/day tren @ 5 wks -- what is the best route to go for pct, and combating estrogen-related sides during the cycle? Could 40mg arimidex and 2500 clomid be enough?

Some people like a little bit of arimidex, maybe 0.25-0.5 ED... but really, everybody's different. Some people swear by having high estrogen (and science proves it helps), but some people just get gyno, so you're better off using arimidex if you're prone to it.

Nolvadex won't reduce estrogen-related side-effects other than gyno. Arimidex, however, will. If you're not prone to gyno, don't worry about it. But do keep some nolvadex and arimidex ready in case you start getting gyno.

I'd do the tren at the beginning instead of the middle while you're still waiting for the test to kick in, but to each his own.

For PCT, get yourself some HCG, 20-40mg of nolva a day, and a very low dose of arimidex or letro to help your test levels get back up there. Make sure you eat well, and make sure you keep your calories up, too.

 

[617ricky]

I just did some more reading, and I like the sound of using hcg during the cycle. I see that 250iu 2x/wk would be enough to keep me from shutting down [hopefully], and then just take the clomid at the end.. Now I'd still plan on 0.5mg arimidex a day, and I'd have a little left over. But does this sound like it would work for my proposed cycle? Like I said I did a stronger longer cycle a few yrs ago, and I only took a little nolva during, and a little clomid at the end.. I didn't crash hard or anything, so I feel with a lower strength cycle, and adding some hcg and arimidex, I'd be much better off..

I see alot of sites selling hcg, around $40 for 5000iu which would be enough for 10 wks - but hopefully it's legit.. Are there any potential problems getting bunk hcg online? Can anyone give me any tips or anything? Thanks.

 

[azul]

I just did some more reading, and I like the sound of using hcg during the cycle. I see that 250iu 2x/wk would be enough to keep me from shutting down [hopefully], and then just take the clomid at the end.. Now I'd still plan on 0.5mg arimidex a day, and I'd have a little left over. But does this sound like it would work for my proposed cycle? Like I said I did a stronger longer cycle a few yrs ago, and I only took a little nolva during, and a little clomid at the end.. I didn't crash hard or anything, so I feel with a lower strength cycle, and adding some hcg and arimidex, I'd be much better off..

I see alot of sites selling hcg, around $40 for 5000iu which would be enough for 10 wks - but hopefully it's legit.. Are there any potential problems getting bunk hcg online? Can anyone give me any tips or anything? Thanks.

Just my opinion, but when it comes to this stuff, less is better. Try 0.25mg of arimidex a day (during the cycle), and if that works, why go higher? If it doesn't, double the dose and go from there.

Where'd you get that '250iu 2x/wk' number? I've been away from the game for a while, so I'm not 100% positive, but I'd use more.

Clomid for PCT is fine, too.

 

[617ricky]

Where'd you get that '250iu 2x/wk' number? I've been away from the game for a while, so I'm not 100% positive, but I'd use more.

The sticky at the top - "The New Post Cycle Therapy 2008".. It has this info, and I did a little other reading on other sites, and apparently the 250iu dose is all a healthy male would need to keep his systems up.. In the past they've proposed higher doses, but these were apparently based on guys that weren't healthy in that aspect to begin with. Here's what is says:

The biggest component of a fast recovery is keeping the testes active during the cycle. This is accomplished by taking hcg during cycle, not after like many people think. On cycle hcg forces your testes to continue to produce testosterone as they normally would. The trick with on-cycle-hcg use is to avoid using too much, too frequently (which can desensitize your testes). It’s important to use just enough to stimulate the testes to produce the same amount of testosterone they normally would.

For on-cycle-hcg, I recommend 250 iu’s of hcg taken twice a week from the start of your 3rd week of the cycle until two weeks before the steroids or pro-hormones clear your system (be sure to check the half lives and clearance time of the Steroids / Pro-Hormones you use as these widely vary).

 

[azul]

The sticky at the top - "The New Post Cycle Therapy 2008".. It has this info, and I did a little other reading on other sites, and apparently the 250iu dose is all a healthy male would need to keep his systems up.. In the past they've proposed higher doses, but these were apparently based on guys that weren't healthy in that aspect to begin with. Here's what is says:

The biggest component of a fast recovery is keeping the testes active during the cycle. This is accomplished by taking hcg during cycle, not after like many people think. On cycle hcg forces your testes to continue to produce testosterone as they normally would. The trick with on-cycle-hcg use is to avoid using too much, too frequently (which can desensitize your testes). It’s important to use just enough to stimulate the testes to produce the same amount of testosterone they normally would.

For on-cycle-hcg, I recommend 250 iu’s of hcg taken twice a week from the start of your 3rd week of the cycle until two weeks before the steroids or pro-hormones clear your system (be sure to check the half lives and clearance time of the Steroids / Pro-Hormones you use as these widely vary).

Well, some things I agree with... makes sense to take low doses during the cycle... I myself would take a bit after as well, but well, it's not an exact science. Other things I don't agree with, but that's all I'll say.

 

[617ricky]

I appreciate the input. I will go with 1/4mg of arimidex and see if that's enough. I'll probably also only take 25mg clomid/day at the end of the cycle too, seeing as I'll be on hcg the whole time, and I'll also take 1/4mg of the arimidex a day too.. So if I am on the hcg the entire time, and I can theoretically prevent "shut down" - how long should I run the clomid and arimidex for after the cycle - 4 wks sound right?

 

[azul]

I appreciate the input. I will go with 1/4mg of arimidex and see if that's enough. I'll probably also only take 25mg clomid/day at the end of the cycle too, seeing as I'll be on hcg the whole time, and I'll also take 1/4mg of the arimidex a day too.. So if I am on the hcg the entire time, and I can theoretically prevent "shut down" - how long should I run the clomid and arimidex for after the cycle - 4 wks sound right?

Anywhere from 4-6 weeks. 4 weeks is good, but if you feel you need more, go for it. I'd actually move up to 0.5mg arimidex per day for PCT.

 

[617ricky]

Would I be better off condensing the cycle from 10wks to say - 8 wks? I just wanna try the tren, but I heard that you gotta run test w/ it or else you're asking for problems..

What would you recommend for a mild tren/test cycle? Is the 500mg/wk test and 50mg/day tren right? Any input on how long I should run the tren for, and how I should work it in w/ the test? You said to run the tren/test together 1st, and then just the test after - is that best you think?

 

[joe d]

6 months. thats no good. i bet your diet and training are not up to par. i also bet you will hurt yourself on this cycle. put some size on first learn how to grow and keep muscle for a few years or so first. not trying to sound like an ass just my honest opinion. good luck

 

[617ricky]

I totally hear what you're saying - but by 6 months, I don't just mean ONLY 6 months of training.. Like I said, I did a cycle about 4 yrs ago, and did end up losing probably 2/3 of my total weight-gain over the next couple yrs, but I still kept my basic form, and worked out occasionally.. So for the past few months, I've been training hard and eating right, and I'm already up 15 lbs. In another few months, I'll be up another 10-15 lbs with the way I've been eating/training - and that will be where I was at the end of my last cycle, weight/strength-wise.. For me personally, it's gonna be a good time to do a cycle, nothing crazy - but I definitely wanna do it.. And I'll be in a much better position than where I was with my last cycle, where I basically just dove into it, with very little training beforehand.. I'm definitely not a n00b to lifting or cycles in general, ya kno.

 

[azul]

Would I be better off condensing the cycle from 10wks to say - 8 wks? I just wanna try the tren, but I heard that you gotta run test w/ it or else you're asking for problems..

What would you recommend for a mild tren/test cycle? Is the 500mg/wk test and 50mg/day tren right? Any input on how long I should run the tren for, and how I should work it in w/ the test? You said to run the tren/test together 1st, and then just the test after - is that best you think?

10 weeks is fine. Keep in mind it'll take a couple of weeks for the test to kick in. If you really wanna do tren, why not try some test prop? Do tren/prop EOD or so... it'll kick in faster and leave your system faster. Then you can even reduce the cycle to 8 weeks.

I'd do some prop for 4 weeks, then throw some tren in for another 4 or so weeks with the test. It's always nice to see how compounds work purely by themselves and then see what adding another compound can do. And bro, you ever do ED injections? Shit, I hate sticking myself even once a week... keep it to every 2nd day or you'll be taking all the fun out of it... unless you enjoy needles, that is.

 

[617ricky]

10 weeks is fine. Keep in mind it'll take a couple of weeks for the test to kick in. If you really wanna do tren, why not try some test prop? Do tren/prop EOD or so... it'll kick in faster and leave your system faster. Then you can even reduce the cycle to 8 weeks.

I'd do some prop for 4 weeks, then throw some tren in for another 4 or so weeks with the test. It's always nice to see how compounds work purely by themselves and then see what adding another compound can do. And bro, you ever do ED injections? Shit, I hate sticking myself even once a week... keep it to every 2nd day or you'll be taking all the fun out of it... unless you enjoy needles, that is.

lol well I don't enjoy needles, but I don't mind them too much.. Now my original thought was just a tren only cycle, but I read info saying that it's no good, so I decided I gotta throw some test in.. So you think prop is a better idea?

Now I plan on getting 2000mg of fina, which comes out to 40 days (~6wks) worth. Is that too long to run tren for? What is the normal tren cycle length? Is 6 wks too much? I could do 5 wks I guess, but I'd have to up the dose a little.. 50-60mg/day tren - that's not too high of a dose right?

 

[azul]

lol well I don't enjoy needles, but I don't mind them too much.. Now my original thought was just a tren only cycle, but I read info saying that it's no good, so I decided I gotta throw some test in.. So you think prop is a better idea?

Now I plan on getting 2000mg of fina, which comes out to 40 days (~6wks) worth. Is that too long to run tren for? What is the normal tren cycle length? Is 6 wks too much? I could do 5 wks I guess, but I'd have to up the dose a little.. 50-60mg/day tren - that's not too high of a dose right?

Lemme tell you something... there's no such thing as a normal XXX cycle length.

You do what you wanna do. Some people cycle for 3 months, some people prefer 4-8 weeks. I think that for tren and prop, 6-8 weeks is fine. It's entirely up to you.

I wouldn't do tren alone because my penis literally stops working and becomes smaller, but that's the only bad side-effect. The other side-effect is sleeping less, but I actually love that one because I can sleep for 6-7 hours on tren but still feel great. But everybody gets different side-effects, so that's something you gotta figure out for yourself.

I recommended doing some prop alone and throwing in tren after 4 weeks because then you'll know what does what. If you feel a certain way for 4 weeks of doing prop, and then throw in some tren and feel another way, you'll know it was the tren. If you start both at the same time, you'll never know what's doing what. But then again, that's just my philosophy.

Nothing we do here is an exact science. Research a lot and think for yourself. If I say 20, and somebody else says 10, you can safely assume that a number inbetween 10 and 20 (15) is pretty safe.

 

[617ricky]

Thanks bro.. As far as tren doses go - 50mg/day is on the low side right? Cuz I'd like to keep this a mild to moderate cycle. I plan on doing 75mg/day prop, which I wouldn't call big either - right? Now as far as the doses are concerned - if I don't mind the shots, am I better off dosing every day? One guy said he thought that dosing tren daily cut off on the sides a little bit as opposed to EOD.. And lastly, can I do the prop and tren in the same needle for 1 shot?

 

[azul]

Thanks bro.. As far as tren doses go - 50mg/day is on the low side right? Cuz I'd like to keep this a mild to moderate cycle. I plan on doing 75mg/day prop, which I wouldn't call big either - right? Now as far as the doses are concerned - if I don't mind the shots, am I better off dosing every day? One guy said he thought that dosing tren daily cut off on the sides a little bit as opposed to EOD.. And lastly, can I do the prop and tren in the same needle for 1 shot?

A weekly dose of 500mg prop is a moderate cycle, and 350mg of tren is also moderate. If you wanna go mild, try 500mg prop per week and 200-350mg of tren.

This is my advice... it's up to you whether to use it: Start low, and increase it if you're not seeing any gains. Try 25 or so mg of tren a day, and if you're not happy, go higher. And if 25mg does the job, why double it? It has a rather short half-life, so if you're not happy after a week or so of using it, up the dose.

Last piece of advice... go with E2D injections unless you've done ED injections before and didn't mind it. Far more convenient and you'll get the same gains. I have yet to see convincing evidence that shooting prop or tren E2D vs ED reduces side-effects or increases gains. Try it yourself if you want to... you can switch from ED to E2D injections whenever you want to to see the difference, of course.