My [Least] favorite training myths.

[Debaser]

debaser...

Don't get all offended by what I say. My intent is not to attack you. I think you're an okay guy... I simply want to point something out. Take it as you may. During my first year of college I learned that the people who talk the most, and appear to have the most knowledge are rarely the ones whom actually have any true knoweldge.

Person-specific. My uncle is a chemical engineer, talks about it all the time and is one of the most qualified men in his field. My philosophy professor loves to talk more than anyone else I know, and is probably the smartest person I have ever met, and I've met a few flat-out geniuses. You're completely correlating two different factors that depend on the person. Whether they like to discuss their ideas all the time is the first thing to consider. This is independent of whether they know what they're talking about or not. Steven Hawking loves to prattle on about Quantum Physics.

This is the approach to training(or pretty much anything) that leads to a champion.

Your "black and white" approach is one of shear arrogance that makes anyone arguing you disregard what you are saying. Try, for once, using the words "my opinion"......"I think that"...or...."I believe that." Try qualifying your arguments.

Have you ever taken a logic or argument course? If something is your opinion, that characteristic is self evident. You don't need to prefix everything you say, identifying it as opinion or otherwise. When 2 people are debating abortion, they don't start every statement with "well, in my opinion." They would look like fools. You state your argument, period.

I disagree with so much that you say, but I don't even bother to post because you can't argue objectively, so I don't waste my time.

Actually, it becomes quite apparent that some of the people on this forum, can't argue objectively, and simply don't know how to argue period, who think a fallacious argument has to do with some kind of blowjob.

You have under 2 years training experience under you, and yet you continue to argue adamantly against the knowledge of professionals and veterans of this game. If you have something to share...great. However, being so green, you should learn to open your ears more than your mouth. You're making yourself look very bad like you use to.

I have opened my ears. Where the hell do you think I GET my knowledge? From "professionals and veterans." From guys (although this doesn't matter to me, some of the very people I argue against here seem to take it is all-important) that would dwarf just about every member on this forum. Guys that are extremely strong, some of them having the same goals as me, some of them not. Do you think this is the only forum where professionals convene?

p.s. thanks apprentice for backing me bro

 

[Tweakle]

I'm starting to suspect that Arnold'sApprentice is either an alter or is taking the piss out of debaser big time.

this thread smells of pee

 

[Arnold'sApprentice]

don't turn into a personal thing..i shouldn't hav e said 'guys on this thread' cos it appears insulting..HOWVEVER, I have said before that he is probably -at least it appears so -that he is most knowledgable guy on this forum. I just want people to listen to what says and not go nuts at him. he knows his shit and can help you

later bro

 

[Arnold'sApprentice]

I'm starting to suspect that Arnold'sApprentice is either an alter or is taking the piss out of debaser big time.

this thread smells of pee

With idiots posting pathetic,juvenile retorts such as yours it does.

Look,debaser made a bunch of excellent,totally correct points -we wasn't even that contraversial...However, a bunch of guys starting insulting him so I said my bit. I've tried to be nice but I won't play playground politics with you ...you little prick.

If debaser speaks the truth and gets flamed i speak out..if he says something i don't agree with I'll call him out on it. He's the only guy I know won't start sulking and stomping his feet about it and wil have a reasoned debate instead.

 

[Mike_Rojas]

2. Low reps hit this fiber type, higher reps hit this type, I only grow off of low reps, high reps etc.

Progressive load is the key growth factor. If you increase your 5 rep squat by 300 lbs, or your 20 rep squat by 200 lbs, you're going to see some serious growth either way. The whole fiber type thing is a bunch of BS, many trainees worry about it (and other pointless minutae) so much that they lose their focus on important matters and end up not succeeding whatsoever.

From personal experience I've found that people respond differently to training. For example, I worked out with my friend for months. We did the exact same workout for our biceps. We did 3 sets of 10 with the same weight. Over the months his biceps grew, while mine remained essentially the same size. Why the hell are his biceps bigger than mine when we train exactly the same? Also, this guy took up running. He ran 2 miles 3 times a week. His calves blew up like crazy. I've done my share of long-distance running over the years, and my calves never grew from it. If anything they got smaller and harder.

Now that I've switched to low-rep training, I've increased my muscle size much more. A lot of people complain they don't get any size from training with low reps, but there's some of us that do.

While I agree with you that progressive load is the key growth factor, I think people should use a variety of rep ranges in order to promote maximum muscle growth.

3. You should change up your routine constantly so you shock the muscles, because they adapt to a certain training routine.

Again, progressive load (adding weight to the bar session after session) results in building muscle. There is no way to “shock growth” into a muscle. Your muscles do not “adapt” to a certain routine, thereby requiring that you “change it up” constantly (the result of slow or nonexistent progress for many). Muscles don't know what the hell you're doing to them, only that they're experiencing tension. They adapt to a certain load, requiring that you increase said load next time around, but that’s all. Muscles are not intelligent. Rant over.

Also, a single routine CAN get one very far. Cases in point: Westside. Hardgainer magazine. DC training. HST. There are several people on each of these routines that don't "switch it up" and have made constant gains.

Do you think after you gain XX lbs of muscle on, say, DC training, your body is going to say "whoops, that's too much, until he changes his set and rep scheme we're going to stay at this weight." No way. Your body does not adapt in that way. Your muscles merely adapt to a certain load, requiring that you increase the load each session to make progress.

You can't use a linear progression forever - it leads to burnout, both mentally and physically. You often need to do something different to break a plateau. Whether its changing the reps, sets, speed, or working the muscle with a different movement.

You mention Westside as a routine that can get one very far. I don't know if you know the fundamentals of WSB or not, but variety is one of the keys to it. Most of the WSB'ers change their moves every single week, some not repeating that move again for several weeks (or even months). Their assistance exercises often vary a lot, too.

One reason to change up your routine is to make it "fresh" to your mind. You can't overlook the mind in training. If you've been doing the same workout for months, you can get to the point where you have to drag your ass to the gym. When you start a new program you are enthusiastic about it.

 

[NWinters]

Re: Re: My [Least] favorite training myths.

From personal experience I've found that people respond differently to training. For example, I worked out with my friend for months. We did the exact same workout for our biceps. We did 3 sets of 10 with the same weight. Over the months his biceps grew, while mine remained essentially the same size. Why the hell are his biceps bigger than mine when we train exactly the same? Also, this guy took up running. He ran 2 miles 3 times a week. His calves blew up like crazy. I've done my share of long-distance running over the years, and my calves never grew from it. If anything they got smaller and harder.

Now that I've switched to low-rep training, I've increased my muscle size much more. A lot of people complain they don't get any size from training with low reps, but there's some of us that do.

While I agree with you that progressive load is the key growth factor, I think people should use a variety of rep ranges in order to promote maximum muscle growth.



You can't use a linear progression forever - it leads to burnout, both mentally and physically. You often need to do something different to break a plateau. Whether its changing the reps, sets, speed, or working the muscle with a different movement.

You mention Westside as a routine that can get one very far. I don't know if you know the fundamentals of WSB or not, but variety is one of the keys to it. Most of the WSB'ers change their moves every single week, some not repeating that move again for several weeks (or even months). Their assistance exercises often vary a lot, too.

One reason to change up your routine is to make it "fresh" to your mind. You can't overlook the mind in training. If you've been doing the same workout for months, you can get to the point where you have to drag your ass to the gym. When you start a new program you are enthusiastic about it.

Promising words!!!!!

 

[Debaser]

There are so many variables to consider. When you were curling 3 sets of 10, in that period of time how much weight did you acquire on the bar? Were both your diets exactly the same? How much muscle mass did you gain on the rest of your body? etc...

There are some people that do use linear progression forever. They have to take breaks, of course, perhaps cycling intensity as well, but this still linear progression. I never said keep adding weight without cycling intensity, in fact that's a principle I believe in (though my views on how to do it best have changed slightly as of late).

I agree with the mental thing. Training should never be considered a "chore," but rather something you enjoy, or "love to hate." I enjoy my type of training. I think HST is an extremely effective routine, but I don't enjoy it much personally so I don't do it.

Lastly, you guys are misinterpreting me somewhat on my last point. You've seen the guys here that just cannot decide on a routine. They post something new week in week out. They never progress, because their set/rep scheme and exercises are different every week or 2. I say stick with a certain routine for at least 3 months to determine it's efficacy. And I'm saying that if it's a competent routine, you should be able to be on it for much longer than many people would have you realize (as in even years, if you chose to do so).

 

[Exodus]

for once.......... i agree with debaser about mike rojas post..... too many things to be taken into consideration.

but debaser............... all of your post... have no scientific proof..... not one case study reference number anything. you posted a nifty diagram.......... but where is this proof that your getting that says, inclines dont build the clavicular pec's as much as flat bench. now both sternal and clavicular pec's work when doing a bench, its silly to think you can isolate..... but the stress is placed more on the clavic pec's when doing incline........ so how can you say, your upper chest will grow just as big.........

and i dont know any real world answers you've presented.... mendy doesnt count........ seeing how he is probably one of the only 5 people in the world who can do a raw 700lb bench. were talking in general. your every day guy's who bench 300lbs.

and arnold's apprentice........... seek out your own truth, studies and info...... thats all debaser is doing, he is not giving you info on his own studies and research, but on what he has read from DC training..........

X

 

[Mike_Rojas]

There are so many variables to consider. When you were curling 3 sets of 10, in that period of time how much weight did you acquire on the bar? Were both your diets exactly the same? How much muscle mass did you gain on the rest of your body? etc...

Obviously my example isn't a controlled experiment, I just wanted to use an example from the real world. I'm sure there are other people who have noticed this. Some people blow up on higher reps, some on lower reps.

 

[b fold the truth]

"There comes a time when you have to stop talking about the weights and you have to wrap your hands around a cold piece of steel and give it Hell."
Terry Long (old friend of mine)

B True