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Men have NO RIGHTS.

Drizzt

New member
When it comes to pregnancy!!!! Currently this girl I work with is in a situation where her boyfriend impregnated a girl on a one night stand while he was intoxicated now she is suing him for child support after he told her he did not want the baby and would help her to put it up for adoption/abortion whatever the case may be. She instead has this kid and is using it to trap him into paying half of his wages to upkeep this lil bastard child. She also has a friend that got pregnant and the guy that got her pregnant PAID HER THE MONEY to have a abortion and she instead went out and spent it on drinking and drugging and then didn't have money to have the abortion now here is the kicker, she has the kid and is now SUING HIM FOR CHILD SUPPORT for the kid that should have never been born. I think the whole legal system regarding child support is so fucked up its beyond control, it takes two people to make a baby but the women get all the say in the matter no matter if we want to have the child or not. We have NO RIGHTS when it comes to this we either pay or get put in prison I think its one of the biggest loads of shit of all time. I know some people out there are in this situation or have to agree with me on this. Personally if a bitch trys that with me its the "right hook abortion clinic" or I will just tell her straight up "listen sweetheart, i don't want this kid and I won't pay for him" if you try and trap me in this I will just let you know this much. "YOU CAN"T COLLECT YOUR CHILD SUPPORT IN HELL" =).

Drizz
 
A very steep price to pay for 28.5 seconds of fun!!!!
 
WODIN said:
A very steep price to pay for 28.5 seconds of fun!!!!

AGREED =). This is why people should think before just having a random one night stand. Those few mintues could be with you for the rest of your life and the next 21 years out of your paychecks. You might think i am preaching to you but just think if you were in the position you wouldn't be so keen on it either.

Drizz
 
Sorry, but if you get someone pregnant it shoud be both parties responsibility.. It's not the child's fault people are irresponsible with their one night stands..
 
Personally if a bitch trys that with me its the "right hook abortion clinic" or I will just tell her straight up "listen sweetheart, i don't want this kid and I won't pay for him" if you try and trap me in this I will just let you know this much. "YOU CAN"T COLLECT YOUR CHILD SUPPORT IN HELL" =).

You disgust me.
 
you know life is fucked up that way. it does kinda suck that women have almost all custody rights. I know of deadbeat moms who drink all the time,even infront of their kids and the father is a standup guy who works hard and has to pay all the ailomony. Life is twisted this way....
 
It's a sad state of affiars when the immaturities of two parents is considered over the life of the new born child. Sure, it's bullshit that they are getting child support when they screwed him over... but it is for HIS kid... even though it wasn't supposed to be there, it IS there. And he must have had a shitty lawyer... every jurisdiction I know the max is around 20% per kid.


I know I would do whatever the woman wanted... pay/keep... whatever... hell, I'd probably try to get custody.

C
 
Citruscide said:
It's a sad state of affiars when the immaturities of two parents is considered over the life of the new born child. Sure, it's bullshit that they are getting child support when they screwed him over... but it is for HIS kid... even though it wasn't supposed to be there, it IS there. And he must have had a shitty lawyer... every jurisdiction I know the max is around 20% per kid.


I know I would do whatever the woman wanted... pay/keep... whatever... hell, I'd probably try to get custody.

C

Then you are a far better man than I my friend. If I said I didn't want the child that means I DON"T WANT THE KID I don't wanna see him, pay for him, or deal with him. I know I will piss people off with the way I act about having kids but I don't want children ever I don't like kids and I don't want any of my own. Women being able to entrap men into paying alimony because of a one night mistake just isn't right. It shouldn't be my "rightfull duty" to have to pay for a child I do not want. If the mom gives up the child to me does she still pay child support to me?? Oh ya thats right thank you drive through.

Drizz
 
Drizzt said:


AGREED =). This is why people should think before just having a random one night stand. Those few mintues could be with you for the rest of your life and the next 21 years out of your paychecks. You might think i am preaching to you but just think if you were in the position you wouldn't be so keen on it either.

Drizz

There you go.

Your friend is a dumbass who should take responsibility for his actions. sadly, he wasn;t on Flight 93 in September.

Thankfully there is a recourse, and he will be obligated to take responsibility.
 
First of all, let me say that it's attitudes like that which create one HELL of a lot of welfare mommies.

I got pregnant(with a condom) at 23. I kept the baby, because I didn't want to have an abortion, and neither did I want to give my baby away to some family who could beat it on a daily basis for all I would know.

The man I was dating told me to fuck off and deal with it. So I did.

I was on bed rest all through pregnancy, unable to work, living on air, sick as a dog, and flat-assed broke.

My family wanted nothing to do with me, because they wanted me to have an abortion.

I managed, but it was tough. And you're damn right I sued for child support and am finally receiving it after three years. My son deserves it.

I didn't want to get pregnant, but I love my son more than life itself and take excellent care of him. I understand why his father is upset, but them's the breaks, brother. Sorry. That's the risk you take when you have sex, condom or not.

I actually used to feel bad for going after support. Then I realized that I spend triple of the paltry 20 percent of his income that he pays, and I also spend every waking moment taking care of and making important decisions for my son.

Men that whine about paying support are selfish assholes. You're not the one staying up all night with a sick baby. You're not the one paying huge medical insurance premiums. You're not the one driving him to school/daycare. You're not the one feeding, caring for, reading to, teaching, loving, and being responsible for your child. You have to pay child support. Whooptee fucking doo.

I bust my ass to be a good parent, and I give every cent I have to make sure that my son is well-provided for. I put everything I've got into making him a strong, responsible, healthy, happy kid.

If all you have to do is throw down a few hundred bucks a month, your job is fucking EASY. Quit whining, or don't have sex.
 
hell yeah trance I hear you.

And teh taxpayers end up paying for people like Dirzzt's friend. Fuck him.
 
Oh, and by the way, honey, men DO have rights. They have the right to stick their dick in someone and then walk the fuck away, leaving a fatherless child with no remorse.

How nice it must be to do whatever the hell makes you happy...
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
hell yeah trance I hear you.

And teh taxpayers end up paying for people like Dirzzt's friend. Fuck him.

I just wish that men who bitch about support knew how easy they get off, and how much it REALLY costs to raise a child.
 
True here in Quebec, men and foetus have no right what so ever.

so if the pregnant woman want to get aborpted or open herself up, take the baby and throw it away on a railway she AS all the RIGHTS to do it.

why? because it is a biological waste of HER body!

lalalalalala!!!
 
Ya know matt you can fuck off and so can trance you didn't want to have a abortion well whoopie fucking do for you what if he DOESN"T WANT THE KID he is still required to pay for him. As far as he is concerned he wants the kid aborted but since YOU DON"T he is forced to pay. Its bullshit and I could care less about your whining about why we should have to pay when its YOU that wants the kid. I have no children "thanks god" and I don't want any children but if I was put in this situation I am not quite sure what I would do "moving out of the country is a start" I will not pay for something I don't want. Its like me buying something then returning it they don't FORCE me to pay for something I don't want which is in essence what women are doing. So its a collective kiss my ass to who disagrees with me as you have your opinions and I have mine since mine are the only ones that count to me it pretty well makes me right in my eyes and everyone else wrong....capice. Have a nice day.

Drizz
 
You don't deserve your dick.....cut it off


Is this something new? when you have sex you can have a child? what? NO WAY! I have never heard of that.....
 
READ THIS LADIES

Jennifer was crushed when she was told that a baby was on the way. She wants to have children, but the right way--after she has found the right person and is married. But in Jennifer's country, she has no choice. "Jenn" cannot give the child up for adoption, and she cannot terminate the pregnancy. It is her burden to bear, for the next two decades, like it or not.

What country is it which compels a person to have a child they don't want? Afghanistan? Saudi Arabia?

No, it's the United States--not for Jenn, but for Ken.

Ken Johnson, a 10 year veteran of the Seattle Fire Department, wanted to be a father, but with the right woman, and at the right time. Three years ago he and his wife separated after six years of marriage, and each began to date. During this time, according to court documents filed in Snohomish County, Washington, Ken had a brief affair with "Cathy," which resulted in a pregnancy. Ken's legal complaint alleges that he begged Cathy to put the child up for adoption or to terminate the pregnancy, but Cathy refused. Now Ken and his wife, who reconciled two and a half years ago, can't start a family of their own because almost half of Ken's net income from the Seattle Fire Department goes to support the child he didn't want to have. He says:

"People tell me that Cathy should have the choice whether to keep the child or not because it's her body so it's her choice. I agree. But what about my body? I make my living rushing into burning buildings. I put my life and my safety on the line every time I go to work, and now I'm on the hook for 18 years. With the child support demands on me, there's no way I'll ever be able to quit. What about my choice?"

Johnson is part of a growing movement of men who bristle at being "coerced fathers," and who have enlisted in a "Choice for Men" movement whose goals are every bit as legitimate as the goals of the women's reproductive rights movement. They note that one million American women legally walk away from motherhood every year by either adoption, abortion, or abandonment, and demand that men, like women, be given reproductive options. They point out that, unlike women, men have no reliable contraception available to them, since the failure rate of condoms is substantial, and vasectomies are generally only worthwhile for older men who have already married and had children.

The Choice for Men movement seeks to give "coerced fathers" the right to relinquish their parental rights and responsibilities within a month of learning of a pregnancy, just as mothers do when they choose to give their children up for adoption. These men would be obligated to provide legitimate financial compensation to cover natal medical expenses, the mother's loss of income during pregnancy, etc. The right would only apply to pregnancies which occurred outside of marriage.

Some of those who fought for women's reproductive choices agree with choice for men. Karen DeCrow, former president of the National Organization for Women, writes:

"If a woman makes a unilateral decision to bring a pregnancy to term, and the biological father does not, and cannot, share in this decision, he should not be liable for 21 years of support ... autonomous women making independent decisions about their lives should not expect men to finance their choice."

To date, courts have refused to consider fathers' reproductive rights even in the most extreme cases, including: when child support is demanded from men who were as young as 12 when they were statutorily raped by older women; when women have taken the semen from a used condom and inserted it in themselves, including from condoms used only in oral sex; and when women concealed the pregnancy from the man (denying him the right to be a father) and then sued for back and current child support eight or ten years later.

"It doesn't make sense to me," Ken's wife Patti says. "The courts force my husband and I to support a child he never agreed to, but make it financially impossible for him to have a child with the woman he loves and married."



Drizz
 
:nopity:

If you expect me to believe that I should have cared more about a grown, self-sufficient man's rights than those of myself and my baby, you're nuts. Sorry.
 
Why should he then care about you a woman he doesn't want and a child he doesn't want?? Just because you gave it up got knocked up then wanted to have the kid he is by law hooked to you no matter if he wishes you both would suddenly lose air and stop living. Now thats fucked up its your choice to have the kid and I applaud you being a single mom but its not always OUR choice if we want to have the child or not. You just look at things from one view instead of opening your mind I see your situation and like I said I applaud you being a single mom but you knew what you were getting into when you had the child there is no reason he should have to pay for a child he doesn't want. Thanks.

Drizz
 
Also, here's a little something to help you put this into perspective.

I receive roughly 500/month in support.

My medical care and childbirth cost over 20 grand.

Daycare is roughly 500 per month.

Clothing, food, schooling...at least 600 per month for all three.

College? I don't even want to THINK about that yet.

Medical insurance? Mine was an extra 200 a month when I added my son.

Not to mention the hundred other "extras" that occur when you have a child.

500 a month? I repeat - whooptie fucking doo. It's less than a car payment.
 
Drizzt said:
Why should he then care about you a woman he doesn't want and a child he doesn't want?? Just because you gave it up got knocked up then wanted to have the kid he is by law hooked to you no matter if he wishes you both would suddenly lose air and stop living. Now thats fucked up its your choice to have the kid and I applaud you being a single mom but its not always OUR choice if we want to have the child or not. You just look at things from one view instead of opening your mind I see your situation and like I said I applaud you being a single mom but you knew what you were getting into when you had the child there is no reason he should have to pay for a child he doesn't want. Thanks.

Drizz

I look at it like this.

I can understand why a man in that situation would be pissed off. I probably would be as well.

However, the baby was there. He happened. It wasn't my choice, either, but I stepped up to the plate like an adult and did what I had to do.

I don't ask for SHIT from my son's father. I don't ask for medical insurance. I don't ask for him to be any sort of a father. We haven't spoken since I was 3 or 4 months pregnant.

I'm not trying to play the martyr, here, I'm just saying that when it comes down to it, child support is a small price to pay. Men who are not involved in their child's lives have no responsibility. They can go forth and do whatever the hell they want.

Could I have had that luxury? Maybe, if I wanted to kill my baby or give him away, but I didn't. I couldn't. I have that right.

Men have the right to walk away, but I do believe that they should pay support.

Many don't, and they get away with it, but does that make it right?

If you created a baby, you are responsible for that child, whether you wanted it or not.
 
Well, every man has a choice not to have sex or at the very least use two forms of birth control. Remember, child support is a right of the child, not the mother. People need to grow up and accept responsibility for their actions, life isn't fair so get over it!
 
Drizzt said:
Ya know matt you can fuck off and so can trance you didn't want to have a abortion well whoopie fucking do for you what if he DOESN"T WANT THE KID he is still required to pay for him. As far as he is concerned he wants the kid aborted but since YOU DON"T he is forced to pay. Its bullshit and I could care less about your whining about why we should have to pay when its YOU that wants the kid. I have no children "thanks god" and I don't want any children but if I was put in this situation I am not quite sure what I would do "moving out of the country is a start" I will not pay for something I don't want. Its like me buying something then returning it they don't FORCE me to pay for something I don't want which is in essence what women are doing. So its a collective kiss my ass to who disagrees with me as you have your opinions and I have mine since mine are the only ones that count to me it pretty well makes me right in my eyes and everyone else wrong....capice. Have a nice day.

Drizz

Men have the right not to have sex if they don't have the responsibilty and maturity to deal with the possible consequences. The only way it could be entrapment would be if the guy's sperm was stolen or it he was somehow raped. The rest of these entrapment scenarios are mostly Hollywood/pulp fiction BS.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

If you aren't ready to deal with the possible consquences, either don't have the sex, or get a vasectomy. That's pretty simple, isn't it?

Wyst
 
dgreenhill said:
This is obviously a emotional topic.

I can see where Driz is coming from-look at Mike Tyson for examples..hell, if he looks at a girl the wrong way.she screams rape.


However, I do think that everyone should take responsibilties for the child 50/50.

It should in no way be the tax payers resposiblity to pay for a new car and the rest of the crap the "welfare mommies" have.
That is pretty crappy to say that a bad attitude should influence women to take advantage of the system.

One person in the ENTIRE THREAD that sees my point. The rest of you people just talking the fuck outta your ass because you are not males nor in the situation of my co-worker and her boyfriend. I hope one of you fucks get a bitch pregnant and don't want the kid and they bleed your asses dry. The other people that do agree with me just dont' wanna be labled as a dickhead like i currently am being labeled as =). I still stick to my guns and I won't move a inch because I know whats right and the way shit is run now ISN"T RIGHT.

Drizz
 
dgreenhill said:


I agree..its up to men to realize that if the girl is skanky enought to have a one night stand..then is sleazey enought to entrap him for money..

Like Trance says.....there are alot of welfare mommies out there who are looking for a free meal ticket anyway possible.

That's a sad thing, too.

However, whether it's a one-night-stand or not, birth control does not always work, and a relationship does not always survive the stress of an unplanned pregnancy.

I was in a relationship with a man that I cared about, and I like to believe he cared about me as well. Once a baby came into the picture, he showed very different colors.

Which is fine. Maybe it's understandable. But damned if I was going to say, "Oh, OK, fine, you don't have to pay support, poor thing," when he made sixty grand a year.

It's not as if women get pregnant on purpose, unless they're some random breed of psycho.
 
Drizzt said:


One person in the ENTIRE THREAD that sees my point. The rest of you people just talking the fuck outta your ass because you are not males nor in the situation of my co-worker and her boyfriend. I hope one of you fucks get a bitch pregnant and don't want the kid and they bleed your asses dry. The other people that do agree with me just dont' wanna be labled as a dickhead like i currently am being labeled as =). I still stick to my guns and I won't move a inch because I know whats right and the way shit is run now ISN"T RIGHT.

Drizz

A question. Say your mother, or your little sister got pregnant, and the man called her a fucking bitch and refused to pay support.

I think you'd be singing a different tune.
 
I would be telling her that bringing a kid in the world under a "single mom" state is bullshit and doing the kid no favours and I would suggest a abortion. You can choose to believe me or not but I don't think you are doing a kid ANY favors bringing them into a single parent home with a father or mother that would rather they be dead than alive. I could also see the guys point of view he DOESN'T WANT THE FUCKING CHILD. What part of this are you missing am i not putting this clear enough for you to grasp. HE DOESN'T WANT A KID WITH YOUR ASS OR ANYBODY ELSES WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE BECOME A FUCKING CELEBATE MONK??? You need to pull your fucked up head outta the dark ages and try to see something rather than just your point of view. I don't think you deserve jackshit in all honesty the guy doens't want your fucking bastard child but you still force him to pay so you are a prostitue as you are making him pay for sleeping with you. Well hows that for ya baby girl???

Drizz
 
Drizzt said:
I would be telling her that bringing a kid in the world under a "single mom" state is bullshit and doing the kid no favours and I would suggest a abortion. You can choose to believe me or not but I don't think you are doing a kid ANY favors bringing them into a single parent home with a father or mother that would rather they be dead than alive. I could also see the guys point of view he DOESN'T WANT THE FUCKING CHILD. What part of this are you missing am i not putting this clear enough for you to grasp. HE DOESN'T WANT A KID WITH YOUR ASS OR ANYBODY ELSES WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE BECOME A FUCKING CELEBATE MONK??? You need to pull your fucked up head outta the dark ages and try to see something rather than just your point of view. I don't think you deserve jackshit in all honesty the guy doens't want your fucking bastard child but you still force him to pay so you are a prostitue as you are making him pay for sleeping with you. Well hows that for ya baby girl???

Drizz

Wow, that's pretty ignorant.

Well, my friend, I hope you get a vasectomy, or you're going to be one of those dicks on Jerry Springer in a few years, fighting with yo' baby momma.

Heh.

You're missing my point, not that I'm surpirsed...

Whether he wanted the child or not, his little spermie-poos just so happened to wander towards her little eggs. Boom - instant responsibility, instant lifestyle change. That's how it is. Perhaps you have been living in a fog.

I'm not sure why I am even responding to a person who believes in the "right hook method of abortion"(hello, sickest-fucking-thing-I've-ever-heard), but there you go.

Child support is not a payment to the MOTHER, it is a payment to the CHILD for the CHILD's living expenses.

Dumbass.
 
dgreenhill said:
Driz..tell me if this is what you are saying.

If the girl gets pregnant and wants to keep the child it should be her responsibility.

If he wants her to get an abortion..that is completely her call in the eyes of the law.

Dgreen thats EXACTLY what i am saying. Hell if she wants the fucking demon spawn let HER PAY FOR IT. Its her choice to have the kid not his so it should be HER CHOICE to pay for it. Its just that part of "equal rights" that some of you mullet headed flannel feminists happened to skip over when you were making up your fucked up lists.

Drizz
 
Drizzt said:


Dgreen thats EXACTLY what i am saying. Hell if she wants the fucking demon spawn let HER PAY FOR IT. Its her choice to have the kid not his so it should be HER CHOICE to pay for it. Its just that part of "equal rights" that some of you mullet headed flannel feminists happened to skip over when you were making up your fucked up lists.

Drizz

"Demon Spawn"?

You are one sick, bitter little puppy. Damn. That's just frightening.
 
Trance said:


"Demon Spawn"?

You are one sick, bitter little puppy. Damn. That's just frightening.

Hey I don't like kids what can i say =). I think children are a sexually transmitted disease but its my opinion eh cause I was a lil ankle biter at one point to. However if the girl wants the kid and the guy doesn't it should be her responsibility. Thats all i am saying in so many words. You want em you pay for em.

Drizz
 
dgreenhill said:


Trance.. he is pissed off because he doesn't feel as though anyone is seeing it his way.

You have to admit your situation is different. It should be a womans responsiblity to protect herself from getting pregnant..since it is her body.

And whose sperm is it again?

He'd have better luck getting people to see it his way if he didn't just rant like a crazy person. So, guess what, I take precautions. Hell, I really don't like kids myself, and don't ever want them, but I can't agree with the vile crap he's spewing out. I notice he totally ignored my pretty reasonable post on the subject in order to just rant at trance. He's happy in his ranting, and ignores everything but the one person he perceives as a welfare mom, the one target he feels intellectually up to attacking. He's glorying in the attention: "Look at me, look at me!"

Wyst
 
dgreenhill said:


Trance.. he is pissed off because he doesn't feel as though anyone is seeing it his way.

You have to admit your situation is different. It should be a womans responsiblity to protect herself from getting pregnant..since it is her body.

I agree, in a sense. However, it takes two people to create a child, so it isn't that black and white.

Everyone over the age of twelve knows the possible consequences of sex. You play, you pay.

Don't bitch and moan, be a man and abide by the law.
 
By the way, just to clarify - I'm not on welfare.

And one more thing - Drizz, do you refuse to pay taxes because you don't want to do it?

Nope, you pay them(I would imagine), because it's the law.
 
VooDoo Lady said:


You disgust me.


I agree 100% with VooDoo, Your wrong VERY wrong , he made a kid now hes gunna pay for it till hes 18 years old nothing else you can do about it , His own god damn fault now hes gunna live with it:)
 
dgreenhill said:


Hey, I am not fighting with you..I just think that since it isn't so black and white...that perhaps the law should consider the mans side a little more.


I am sure you agree. that if you had a brother or male friend who was lied to and entrapped you wouldn't be happy either.

I think that very few women would actually entrap someone. What point would there be? It's not like you get a fortune in child support. It barely pays for daycare or schooling.

People watch too much TV and assume that women really do things like that on a regular basis.

I'm not trying to fight with you, either! :)

I see your point. But to me, the man gets off with very little money paid and no inconvenience rendered. The fact remains, the baby exists whether a man wants it or not. That's just life.

Perhaps I'm biased.
 
dgreenhill said:


Yeah, me too..but Im starting to get attracted to you..so maybe Ill just leave off here.:)

Nah, I'm a bitchy little single mom who runs around trapping people and castrating men. :rolleyes: Heh.
 
Originally posted by Drizzt I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt. I'm a dolt.
I read the first two sentences of his post and this is what I heard his words say. So what if you wouldn't want it. Karma's a bitch and she don't play the rules.
 
The courts will just making him take responsibility for his actions.

The bottom line is, he knew the risks, yet did it anyway.

He - loses.

You - loser.
 
wyst said:


Men have the right not to have sex if they don't have the responsibilty and maturity to deal with the possible consequences. The only way it could be entrapment would be if the guy's sperm was stolen or it he was somehow raped. The rest of these entrapment scenarios are mostly Hollywood/pulp fiction BS.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

If you aren't ready to deal with the possible consquences, either don't have the sex, or get a vasectomy. That's pretty simple, isn't it?

Wyst

Ahh well wyst since I seen that you called me out later in the thread I shall respond to you so called "intelligent post" so here goes. You say we have the right not to have sex and yes I am in total agreement however you know about how long that flies with testosterone pumping males such as myself and others on the board. I think you still fail to see my whole point in all my tirade that if the woman chooses to have the child without the man having any say in the matter then she should also hold SOLE RESPONSIBILITY for this child. Thats all I am saying agree with it or not its my stance and plenty of other guys stance also. There is your response hopefully it was all you dreamed it would be =p.

Drizz
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
The courts will just making him take responsibility for his actions.

The bottom line is, he knew the risks, yet did it anyway.

He - loses.

You - loser.

Heh ya know mattthebuttfucker some of your posts due to the 9/11 attack made me hold some respect for you and your views, however this has made me see the light. Go smoke a rope cowboy.

Drizz
 
It's called being responsible for your actions. If the man didn't want to father a child with this woman he could have kept his pants on. Now he blames the woman for his actions. When you decide to sleep with someone you are accepting any and all responsibilities that might result from this encounter.


A quick question.

If he got a std from his encounter with her should he be able to hold her responsible?

If so, how is that any different than holding him responsible for the child that resulted from this?
 
There IS, however, a law that dictates the father of the child must pay support.

It's the law.

It's a necessary law, or no one would pay support, and we, the taxpayers would have to support even more babies than we already do.

Abortion and adoption are not for everyone.
 
dgreenhill said:


Drizz, they will never understand. Its being interpreted as mysogony.

You both have sex-she gets pregnant..Then you both come to a decision. Mutually. You say hey, I don't want to keep the child.

And then she says, well..I can abort the child then since you don't want it..or I can take full responisbility for it by myself.

Why should the male take responsiblity for the womans choice. Its her choice to keep the baby-not his. Unless they are in the confines of a marriage.. He made his choice..then its up to her to abort the baby..or keep it for herself..why should he be "forced" to do something..when all he should do is give her half the price of the abortion.

Dgreen you are the only person on this entire thread with the brainpower to understand what i am saying. Trance you are only seeing things from "womans" point of view saying we should be responsible I mean hell I could always do a rey carruth and just kill the bitch then I don't pay for shit =). See it sounds like oh god how could you say that but it happens all the time you pressure the wrong guy and he might just put that pressure back. It feels like I am fighting a losing battle with a bunch of half-wits that fail to understand where I am coming from and only see one thing from their "up the ass" view. At least dgreen has got my back.

Drizz
 
dgreenhill said:



No-he shouldn't be able to hold her legally liable unless the std can't not be controlled with preventive measures. I.e. Aids.

they both made the choice to sleep together. This created a baby.
They both decide how the problem will be allievated...there is no law saying that she has to keep the baby.


It just comes down to the fact that some people don't want to take responsibility for their actions.

I'm assuming that he knows how babies are made. If he doesn't want to risk being a father he should never have had sex with her.

The thing that I don't understand is how can any man have a child out there and not want to be part of his or her life. That just blows me away. I mean there is a living breathing part of you out there and you just turn your back on them. To me that just tells me that he is not much of a man.
 
Drizzt said:


Heh ya know mattthebuttfucker some of your posts due to the 9/11 attack made me hold some respect for you and your views, however this has made me see the light. Go smoke a rope cowboy.

Drizz

None of that has anything to do with this, and I don't care what your opinion is. Are you from Louisiana?

Your friend did something and was unprepared for the consequences. It sucks, and I feel badly for him, but the bottom line is, every pregnancy starts out only one way.

Is your friend from another country? Was he unfamiliar with the laws here? Maybe in his native country they do it differently. This has been standard procedure in America for a long time, and not knowing that is inexcusable.

Your friend is a dumbass, because all of the above is obvious.
 
Hmmm....hello CONDOM? Whenever a man and a woman engage in sexual intercourse, they should both be aware and able to deal with the consequences of the action. No matter how drunk a person is, they are always at least a small bit aware of what they are doing. Regardless of the woman's intentions (she may have had other intentions, you never know) a man should always be prepared. It is a shame that your friend is in that situation, but hopefully he has learned a lesson and some of the people who read this post will learn as well.
 
I find it amazing that no one has mentioned the what-if-the-woman doesn't believe in abortion scenario, so I will. What if the woman doesn't believe in abortion. Can the guy just then say well, I didn't want the kid, do whatever the hell you like, see ya?

Now I'm for a woman's right to choose, but I also can respect the fact that some women would never choose to abort, even if it meant they might die. So, basically, drizzt and dgreenhill, you are saying that if that is a woman's viewpoint, then she is shit out of luck, and the guy bears no responsibility?

Interesting.

Wyst
 
I suppose I'll jump in here even though it's already close to the point of a flame-war.

In my opinion, which is usually correct, BOTH the man and woman should have none of these "rights" of which you speak. They both have the right to not create a life.

Sorry, chief, but if you get a girl/woman pregnant, it's your responsibility - and I don't mean your responsibility to pay for an abortion. You know what? IMO, child support is too low. You'd have to be a real pathetic excuse for a man to walk out on a woman and her (YOUR) child. If you can't stand her, then damnit, take the kid with you. There's really no excuse for turning tail and running. That's the complete OPPOSITE of what it means to be a man. Whoever does this deserves to be the woman & child's bitch until the child is 18.

I have even less respect for women who abort, abandon or generally don't care for their children.

-Warik
 
I am personally against abortion, except for cases of rape. However, even though a man and a woman both do have the right NOT to sleep together and create a child, the given scenario is quite the opposite. They did sleep together and she did become pregnant. Wouldn't the world be a perfect place if everyone was able to carefully and wisely anticipate each and every one of their actions before they committed them?
 
Warik said:
I suppose I'll jump in here even though it's already close to the point of a flame-war.

In my opinion, which is usually correct, BOTH the man and woman should have none of these "rights" of which you speak. They both have the right to not create a life.

Sorry, chief, but if you get a girl/woman pregnant, it's your responsibility - and I don't mean your responsibility to pay for an abortion. You know what? IMO, child support is too low. You'd have to be a real pathetic excuse for a man to walk out on a woman and her (YOUR) child. If you can't stand her, then damnit, take the kid with you. There's really no excuse for turning tail and running. That's the complete OPPOSITE of what it means to be a man. Whoever does this deserves to be the woman & child's bitch until the child is 18.

I have even less respect for women who abort, abandon or generally don't care for their children.

-Warik

Nah it won't be a all out flame war i have had my say and I am usually passionate about what I beleive in so I will apoligze to skyboy from my eariler post. I am real good friends with this guys girlfriend she works with me and I know her position on this and it sucks real bad and I don't envy it in the least. Oh and warik usually I agree on what you say pretty damn well but on this we won't see eye to eye in anyway because I think if the man chooses not to want the child then he should have just as much say as the woman who wants the child. Its my feelings and I am sticking by them. Say I am not much of a man if you will because i could care less I know who I am and what I am and this is just one situation that the only person on this board I am agreeing with it dgreen.

Drizz
 
bunnymt said:
I am personally against abortion, except for cases of rape. However, even though a man and a woman both do have the right NOT to sleep together and create a child, the given scenario is quite the opposite. They did sleep together and she did become pregnant. Wouldn't the world be a perfect place if everyone was able to carefully and wisely anticipate each and every one of their actions before they committed them?

It certainly would.

When faced with a difficult choice, you have two options: fight or flight.

I prefer to fight.

I had a birth control baby. It was the shock of my life.

People told me I was out of my fucking mind for keeping my baby. I was twenty-three. I made a decent amount of money, but not a lot for two people to live off of. I knew nothing about children. I was unhealthy. I was terrified and alone.

However, I wake up every morning and thank God that I did the right thing. My son is unbelievable.

And I will get of my soapbox and shut the hell up now. ;)

At any rate, you have the option to make the best out of a bad situation - why not try?
 
dgreenhill said:
There is alot of talk about responisibility.

What about the womans responsibility? Why does it all fall on the mans shoulders? Why shouldn't the woman take responsiblity even before she gets undressed?

If the woman is to sanctamonious to get an abortion-then why is she spreading her legs outside of marriage.

Everyone says it takes two to tango..This is true..But why is it okay for a woman to get an abortion with-out the fathers sayso.

I mean it is a life right of a child right? Then why should the father be have the chance to see his child?

Excuse me, but how does all of the responsibility fall on the man's shoulders?? 500 lousy bucks a months is just a HUGE responsibility, right?

Responsibility is being adult enough to take care of your child with financial support, and more importantly, love and TIME.
 
Men should have an equal say in these matters as women do...that is just common sense. They both created the child, so it belongs to BOTH of them.
It is selfish for one party to claim full rights to the child and then make decisions for both parties, without mutual consultation. But think about one thing: if it were men who carried children, would we be having the same debate over women having no rights because the men who carry their children are making life-changing decisions without first consulting them?
 
The whole point of this post is to assert the rights of men in these situations. They should have the 'right' to their opinion in their child's fate: they DO. It is just a shame that some women take it upon themselves to do what they want, regardless of their 'partner's' opinion.
 
dgreenhill said:


Please, answer this question. Why should men be legally responsible(to any extint) but not have the right to say that his child not be aborted?

this question only-please.

In a perfect world, he should have the right. But the fact remains that it is the woman who carries the child, and she has that choice.

Life isn't always fair.
 
dgreenhill said:
Wyst-since you are pro-choice and think that a man should pay..Then why shouldn't there be a law stating that a woman needs a mans permission before she murders his child?

See if you look at the name of this thread it says it speaks of mens limited rights.


1.) The only right that men have is the right to pay child support.

Wrong. He has the right to use birth control, the right not to have sex, and the right to get married and face his responsibility. Three pretty useful rights, IMHO.

As to your other question -- I think it's funny how after being so passionately in favor of a man being able to insist that if a woman not abort she has to take care of the child herself to suddenly saying that she needs permission to "murder" his child. I think that shouldn't be a law, because I don't think anyone should be able to force a woman to carry a child to term if she doesn't want it. A stand I'm sure you must support, given your support of drizzt, who says children are a virus spread by sex or whatever the hell nonsense he was spewing.

Wyst
 
dgreenhill said:
Wyst-since you are pro-choice and think that a man should pay..Then why shouldn't there be a law stating that a woman needs a mans permission before she murders his child?

See if you look at the name of this thread it says it speaks of mens limited rights.


1.) The only right that men have is the right to pay child support.
Sure there is some logic that he should take responsiblity for his his actions. But why shouldn't women have to hold the equal responsiblity.

2.) Why shouldn't the courts give both parents the option to do what is best for the child instead of threating the man with imprisonment for not supporting the womens wishes.

YES YES EXACTLY. I am just relating one senario what if the man WANTS HIS CHILD and the woman says no and has a abortion why do we STILL HAVE NO SAY in the matter about pergnancy. I could choose to have a child then the woman says no and aborts them and I still have no legal rights in the entire matter. The woman speaking up for womens rights are talking out of their ass and do not see the male point of view and don't realize that if the roles were reversed that you would be bitching at me instead of me bitching at you. Peace.

Drizz
 
You had a say before you created the child. You lost your say when the baby was conceived.

You claim that you would beat a woman into a miscarriage if the situation occurred in your life.

And you would expect a woman to have an abortion just to spare you the hassle of having to accept responsibility?

I hope you're still a virgin.
 
dgreenhill said:


this is not true by a long shot. Repeat after me :MEN DO NOT HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO STOP THE MOTHER FROM MURDERING THEIR UNBORN CHILD.

HOWEVER, THE ARE LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT CHILD UPON DELIVERY.

This is like debate mantra from the heavens =p. Don't worry we are getting out point across the chicks just have their heads up their asses and refuse to see the point we are making. No wonder i am single, women are so damn stupid when it comes to so many subjects. This being a prime example.

Drizz
 
Drizzt said:


The woman speaking up for womens rights are talking out of their ass and do not see the male point of view and don't realize that if the roles were reversed that you would be bitching at me instead of me bitching at you. Peace.

Drizz

I dont know if you are referring to me but it seems that you guys are complaining about something that is not going to change. It has become a question now, not about sex, but about morals. Unfortunately, we cannot change people...most are immoral. With this in mind, tis a sad situation for men. The world would be a better place if there was more fairness.
 
Trance said:
You had a say before you created the child. You lost your say when the baby was conceived.

You claim that you would beat a woman into a miscarriage if the situation occurred in your life.

And you would expect a woman to have an abortion just to spare you the hassle of having to accept responsibility?

I hope you're still a virgin.

Keep hoping I am just not stupid enough to have any kids =p. And yes I feel it is her rightful duty to bow to all my wishes hahaha. I could care less trance your debates now seem to be repeating themselves which makes me want to stop talking to you =).

Drizz
 
Drizzt said:
I think if the man chooses not to want the child then he should have just as much say as the woman who wants the child.

Oh, I definitely agree. The only difference is that I believe the woman has too much say. Both the man and the woman should have equal say - none.

-Warik
 
I can "understand" your point about being able to say if the woman should have an abortion or not. Maybe, it's not fair. But it's her body. Abortion is not risk free, neither is pregnancy. Until a man can GUARANTEE a woman's health I don't think he can say what she does with her body.. I have seen someone have serious bleeding problems after an abortion. The guy was on vacation.

Maybe it's not fair. But if you don't like it, DON"T HAVE SEX or get a vascetomy. It's really quite simple.

It's to bad men can't get pregnant.. LOL..
 
starfish said:
I can "understand" your point about being able to say if the woman should have an abortion or not. Maybe, it's not fair. But it's her body. Abortion is not risk free, neither is pregnancy. Until a man can GUARANTEE a woman's health I don't think he can say what she does with her body..

Maybe it's not fair. But if you don't like it, DON"T HAVE SEX or get a vascetomy.

Something seems awry here. Even though it is her body, they created the child together and must make decisions regarding the fate of the child TOGETHER. It is not moral or just any other way.
 
With viewpoints like these, maybe everyone should just get histerectomies and vasectomies, and stop having sex. That will never happen so we must deal with things as they are.
 
bunnymt said:


Something seems awry here. Even though it is her body, they created the child together and must make decisions regarding the fate of the child TOGETHER. It is not moral or just any other way.

Yes, but what if they don't agree? Who has the right to make the decision? It isn't that black and white.

It would be great if every couple could agree on matters like this, and in an ideal world, they would. But where do you draw the line?

Do you simply say, "Oh, OK, I'll have an abortion," even if it would kill you?
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


There you go.

Your friend is a dumbass who should take responsibility for his actions. sadly, he wasn;t on Flight 93 in September.

Thankfully there is a recourse, and he will be obligated to take responsibility.

AMEN!

I really can't add to that, so I won't.
 
dgreenhill said:


this is not true by a long shot. Repeat after me :MEN DO NOT HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO STOP THE MOTHER FROM MURDERING THEIR UNBORN CHILD.

HOWEVER, THE ARE LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT CHILD UPON DELIVERY.

Yes, that's true. The mother gets to decide if she wants to have the child, since it's going to grow inside her body. And yes, the child is genetically the father's. In practice, the amount of support most nondads pay is a pittance compared to the amount of time money and pain that goes into raising a kid on the mother's end. Again, I say, if you aren't prepared to face the consequences of your actions, don't act.

Women get their own set of unfairnesses, remember, before you cry yourself asleep into your beer. How about this one. If I get pregnant out of wedlock and keep the baby long enough to let it show, I'm a whore (in society's eyes). If I abort it, I'm a murderer (in christian eyes). Regardless of my choice, the father receives virtually no social stigma. He has to pay a few hundred bucks a month child support. And, much of the time, he doesn't even pay that.

Cocks are like guns. They can both be useful tools, but you better be damned sure you are ready to live with the consequences if you draw either one.

The fact is, if you're having sex with someone and you don't know what the plan is if she gets pregnant, you're not very bright. And if you don't face the music when it starts playing, you're not very bright, and not a man.

Wyst
 
dgreenhill said:



Exactly, this is the same thing that Trance said. Basically, the world is not fair-so too bad for you. Well. you know what when women go around sticking their tounges out saying fuck you-I will either kill your babie or stick it too you in court..Its all up to me mother fucker. Sorry for ya..And you wonder why the guy gets so mad.

Drizzs' whole point that it wasn't fair.. and everyone has been telling him that he was wrong. Comeon people get with the program.


So now you are saying that he is right...fuck 65 posts just to tell the guy he is right.

I never said that I disagreed with him in the first place. I just started commenting where I felt it was necessary, see? At least now we agree.
 
dgreenhill said:


this is not true by a long shot. Repeat after me :MEN DO NOT HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO STOP THE MOTHER FROM MURDERING THEIR UNBORN CHILD.

HOWEVER, THE ARE LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT CHILD UPON DELIVERY.



exactly.......

so make a choice to have sex with random people and face the consequences, or choose to wait until you have found someone you would want to share your child with.

Too bad most guys think below the waist as well as some women....but hey, makes for good trashy talk shows right?
 
dgreenhill said:



I disagree. Please, study Martin Luther King on the civil right movement. Our country is a work in progress. If you don't like it move out.

Thank you.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and tell me what Martin Luther King said regarding the civil right movement and how that pertains to this debate.
 
dgreenhill said:


Two moderators on the board talking about wanting someone to die in one of the most horrific tragedies of our time..

That is really sad.

:eyes: Whoa!

Yet, it's ok for some guy to tell the girl he helped knock up to kill her baby because he doesn't think he should support it.




Off topic - I still would like to know why the government did NOTHING between the first plane crashing and the second plane crashing - there was certainly enough time and resources.
 
Just a quickie off the subject....some women get handicapped parking spaces when they are pregnant. I heard that from my boyfriend. :confused:

I think the point has been made. The men do have validity in their arguments.

Thank you.
 
dgreenhill said:


Two moderators on the board talking about wanting someone to die in one of the most horrific tragedies of our time..

That is really sad.

Yes, it is sad if you think EF is your moral authority. Sad is this shithead who just made another kid that taxpayers will prbably have to help support.
 
velvett said:


:eyes: Whoa!

Yet, it's ok for some guy to tell the girl he helped knock up to kill her baby because he doesn't think he should support it.


Sure, why not!! It's the American way!!!:rolleyes:

I remember a phone conversation I had at the beginning of my pregnancy. I called my son's father very calmly and said, what in the world do you think I should do?

His response? "I don't care - it isn't my problem."

Hm. Not his problem.

I'm not saying that every guy is a prick like that, and neither am I saying that all women are saints in this situation, but what it comes down to is that you did the crime, do the time. I asked for nothing for three long, hard years.

The baby didn't ask to be conceived, but doesn't it still deserve love and support?
 
bunnymt said:
Just a quickie off the subject....some women get handicapped parking spaces when they are pregnant. I heard that from my boyfriend. :confused:

I think the point has been made. The men do have validity in their arguments.

Thank you.

Have you ever walked over an icy parking lot while nine months pregnant?

I'd give up my spot for a pregnant woman. It's not easy carrying around an unbalanced load of extra weight.
 
dgreenhill said:


This is a complete joke. I get a woman pregant and she can kill my babie..And i will have to live with the fact that I will never see my child and that pain..because she may have to endure some discomfort for nine months. And I am criing in my beer.
Give me a break.

Talking about not very bright..

The point here is about legislation and it is unfair..The laws should change to reflect equality to both men and women...not feel sorry for women both before during and after pregnancy..

ooops-your the man and you have the dick so fuck you pal..

No, I agree...that's a sad situation. But women endure equally sad ones all the time. You're the womb...good luck!

Okay, fine...we disagree. I can agree with you enough to say that it's a sad state of affairs. I don't mean to say that the women are faultless in this situation, by a long shot.

But what could you propose that would make it any better?

Wyst
 
dgreenhill said:


Thank you bro.. coming from you that means the world.:D

That was not directed at you.. I dont think you are an asshole. I think that you believe blindly in things that have no basis in reality.. But you are not an asshole...

I was directing it towards Drizz for being such a selfish prick.
 
Damn this thread got long quick.

My opinion: Dritz your friend is a moron, and to get pissed that she wouldn't have an abortion is an idiotic attitude. You can't force something like that on anyone if they don't want to do it.

And to say that she is trying to trap him is also a pathetic statement. You can also say that he trapped her by leaving her to raise a child all by herself. People that have kids and don't pay child support should all be rounded up and shot.
 
Drizzt said:
Why should he then care about you a woman he doesn't want and a child he doesn't want?? Just because you gave it up got knocked up then wanted to have the kid he is by law hooked to you no matter if he wishes you both would suddenly lose air and stop living. Now thats fucked up its your choice to have the kid and I applaud you being a single mom but its not always OUR choice if we want to have the child or not. You just look at things from one view instead of opening your mind I see your situation and like I said I applaud you being a single mom but you knew what you were getting into when you had the child there is no reason he should have to pay for a child he doesn't want. Thanks.

Drizz


Damn, I hope you don't have kids.

What if it was your daughter or your sister that he got pregnant?

That's not to say it is all his fault - she was there she is 50% at fault too. Or rather 50% as careless.
 
addickt said:


I think that you believe blindly in things that have no basis in reality..

But if you read some of his posts, you will see the contrary. There is reality in what he says.
 
dgreenhill said:


No EF is not my moral authority. But I think anyone wishing death on another person is off base.. If you don't agree then that is between you and George.

Perhaps, you can email him with your thought on wishing death on board members friends and see what his response is.

Perhaps I don't give a shit.

I am only wishing death on the person who is wishing death on a life that HE himself created.

You are too shortsighted to see that. How are they different?
 
There are two sides to every story and I am having a hard time swallowing the fact that people's views are either stark black or white. There are valid points made from each side. We are all grown-up to see that now, right?

Something needs to change because it is not fair for the men...and as a woman, I can naturally see the contrapositive.

Good thread.
 
dgreenhill said:


First off. I think that there should be a law stating the father must give written permission for the mother to have an abortion. Or at least follow some legal guideling or a time frame for the father to be contacted. If he cannot be then it is out of his hands.

If you think that I would just sit back and let a woman murder my unborn baby and let a group of people sit around and tell me to blow it off.. I won't get into the details of what I would do..

I will just put it this way.. If my wife got pregnant and lets say she is about a month along and someone punched her in the stomach and killed my baby....I would not be sitting back and let a bunch of pro-choice women tell me just to buck up and give it another shot.. You would see some serious serial type behavior going on.

So you'd force her to carry the baby to term? Dang. How would you do that? Lock her up in a baby jail? That seems kind of medieval to me. If she didn't want the baby what would happen to it then? The father would have to raise it and the mother would pay child support?

Wyst
 
dgreenhill said:


First off. I think that there should be a law stating the father must give written permission for the mother to have an abortion. Or at least follow some legal guideling or a time frame for the father to be contacted. If he cannot be then it is out of his hands.

That sounds good in theory - but many men (not all) would deny that the child is theirs, so you would need to prove that the child is their first.

Now that would be quite a pickle.

I think we can all agree that things are not equal nor are they always fair, so people should learn to be responsible when their *cough* sampling what's out there.
 
heh

Wow quite a monster I created here today. I expected a few responses nothing big however this turned into one helluva battle with 1 guy on my side =). Oh and matt perhaps it should have been you on the ill fated flight in september or perhaps you are the big ballsy type that would have just stopped it all and ripped open your pink sportcoat to show the S on your chest. To you my fine sir I say you can go blow a goat wishing death on my friend just because he doesn't see things the way you do is quite moronic to say the least. I am done discussing with you since I never said you should die oh wait ya I did =). Dgreen thanks for keeping up the battle while i was away "had to drive home from work" hehe. I however have a date this evening "hehe i can hear the women screaming now" and I have to pick her up at 6 so I will be back to continue this discussion upon why I am right and you are wrong later. Oh and addikt kiss my ass you can see valid points in my posts you just choose to ignore them =). Have a nice day.

Drizz
 
wyst said:


So you'd force her to carry the baby to term? Dang. How would you do that? Lock her up in a baby jail? That seems kind of medieval to me. If she didn't want the baby what would happen to it then? The father would have to raise it and the mother would pay child support?

Wyst

YES TOTALLY if the man wants to have the baby and the woman doesn't why should she not have to pay child support since she was 50% of the reason the baby was created. Yes you have created a beast with that response my friend. I feel if the father wanted the child and the mother didn't she should be forced to pay child support or what is she to good for that just cause she is the wet hole the child fell from???

Drizz
 
I'm sorry but any man that doesn't care about a life that he helped create is just a worthless piece of crap. He's not a man, he is a living, breathing waste of space. If he were to dissapear off the face of this earth today, the world would be a better place.


I went through a living hell recentlly when an exgirlfrind came back into town claiming that she had a daughter fathered by me and put her up for adoption. I spent that week doing everything that I could to find out the truth. I was even going to change my insurence to take care of this child. I finally found out that it was a lie, just to hurt me. Well she succeeded in that, but I was ready to do whatever it took to insure that child's welfare. I couldn't live with myself if I had done anything less.

I could have come out of this with an attitude about all women, except the person that helped me through all this was a very special lady. Like I told her, in the end my ex will be just a distant memory but my friend will always have a special place in my heart.:)
 
Drizz...that is true but you have to remember that it is the woman's body and she is going to do what she wants with it no matter what anyone says. I understand that that is not a fair predicament for men to be in. If a woman wants an abortion, she is going to have one, period, end. If she wants to keep it, she will keep it and there is little to nothing that any man can do to stop her.

I wish that both men and women could bear children (thanks for the thought velvett). Then maybe some things would change.

Men do deserve more say but it is a losing battle for you guys unless a law will be passed stating otherwise.
 
dgreenhill said:


I personally think that the woman should take responsiblity for her actions. Obviously, you think that the man should be the only one.

Perhaps, someday you will open your eyes and see that men should have rights as well. As a matter of fact woman are starting to pay child support, and I don't see a problem with that at all.

I didn't say that women paying child support was a bad thing. Perhaps someday you'll open up your eyes and see that.

So, in order for men to feel better about their rights vis a vis pregnany, you'd basically give them veto power over a woman's body and force the women to carry a baby to full term for nine months? While the current system may be unfair to men to a certain degree, I think this would be vastly more unfair. You didn't address my key question, however -- how would you force women to carry their babies to term?

And, PS, maybe someday you'll wake up and see that young western men have more rights than any other population in the world, period, and maybe you'll stop whining about the few you don't have.

Ever tried to work or get a raise or get a promotion while you were pregnant? No? Didn't think so. Most businesses discriminate against women of childbearing age. Why is that? because it's a fucking lot of work having a kid, and something that affects the women who do have kids for the rest of their fucking lives. No one, however, discriminates against men of the same age (unless they aren't white). Why is that?

Wyst
 
big4life said:
I'm sorry but any man that doesn't care about a life that he helped create is just a worthless piece of crap. He's not a man, he is a living, breathing waste of space. If he were to dissapear off the face of this earth today, the world would be a better place.


I went through a living hell recentlly when an exgirlfrind came back into town claiming that she had a daughter fathered by me and put her up for adoption. I spent that week doing everything that I could to find out the truth. I was even going to change my insurence to take care of this child. I finally found out that it was a lie, just to hurt me.

women like that give the good ones a bad rep.
Sorry you had to go through that.
 
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