Medical opinion - please help - blood clots

[Juice Authority]

Today I decided to go an Acupuncturist instead of the usual chiropractor visit. My neck was hurting me and I thought I'd try something different. When I got there they took my BP and checked my resting heart rate. They didn't speak English very well either. My vital signs were normal - BP was 130/70 and resting heart rate was 68. Then they told me to hold my thumb and index finger together and while they applied force to separate them. Meanwhile, they break out this briefcase of small tubes with various spices and shit in them. They told me to inhale and then they tried to separate my two fingers again. We repeated this process several times each of which they gave me something different to inhale. It was weird.

Anyway, the lady told me I had a bad heart. This caught me by surprise. I was like WTF? Now this obviously concerned me. They had lay down on my back and the acupuncturist applied pressure with his finger to different areas on my chest. Some areas hurt more than others. The areas that hurt the most were around the heart region on my left pectoral. Then again the dude was pressing down pretty hard with his finger. They told me I had blood clots and asked me if wanted to have it treated. Very concerned I said, “yes please do". So they shaved the area of my chest were it was sensitive to pressure and they punctured it with a needle three times. Then they put this section cup around the area where they punctured and extracted the blood. They did this in three different areas. Each time they cleaned up the blood with a gauze they told me I had "bad blood" and showed me how it was all pasty.

Now I'm not sure if all this was bullshit or not or a ploy to get me to go back for more of these"treatments". I'm thinking that maybe the blood was drying in the suction which was why it was all pasty like. The blood sat in the suction for about 5-10 minutes each time. After the "therapy" they told me I needed to come back for at least 8 more treatments. I asked them if I should go see a MD and take some tests and they,"no, just come here and we'll take care of you."

I left there sensing they were full of shit but I don't want to take any chances with my health. Blood clots around the heart is a serious thing and could be fatal. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

 

[Bulldog_10]

Complete bullshit. I thought you would be too skeptical to fall for something like this.

 

[Juice Authority]

Complete bullshit. I thought you would be too skeptical to fall for something like this.

I never said I fell for it. I don't know shit about acupuncture or whether or not an acupuncturist can tell if you have blood clots. Give me some peace of mind and tell me why it's complete bullshit.

 

[Bulldog_10]

I never said I fell for it. I don't know shit about acupuncture or whether or not an acupuncturist can tell if you have blood clots. Give me some peace of mind and tell me why it's complete bullshit.

You seriously think they can tell if you have blood clots just by pressing on your chest? Come on bro...you're smarter than that.

 

[Clean]

Yeh that definitely sounds like complete bullshit, how could he feel your chest and say you have a bad heart, lol. That would be so easy for doctors to do now wouldn't it?

If for any reason you even thought you had a blood clot - and I would'nt just go thinking it because this guy felt your chest and said you did - you would need to see a doctor immediately.

 

[RADAR]

Ja Acupuncture has been used for centuries to treat insomina,eating disorders, vision problems.etc.......but what you have described here falls into the bullshit catagory!

 

[Juice Authority]

You seriously think they can tell if you have blood clots just by pressing on your chest? Come on bro...you're smarter than that.

Maybe not by pressing on your chest but what about the blood extraction they did?

 

[Juice Authority]

Yeh that definitely sounds like complete bullshit, how could he feel your chest and say you have a bad heart, lol. That would be so easy for doctors to do now wouldn't it?

If for any reason you even thought you had a blood clot - and I would'nt just go thinking it because this guy felt your chest and said you did - you would need to see a doctor immediately.

I am going to see a doctor on Friday. How would you know if you had a blood clot? This is virgin territory for me. Shit, I'm only 30. I sure hope I dont have blood clots.

 

[Clean]

Maybe not by pressing on your chest but what about the blood extraction they did?

Man they didn't extract blood from your heart, maybe after all that stuff you sniffed, you couldn't tell what was going on! I am pretty sure it is impossible to tell if you have a clot by doing that. Have you ever heard of them drawing blood to check for a clot from your chest? No!

 

[Clean]

Diagnosis of a blood clot can be made by different techniques. Objective testing includes impedance plethysmography (IPG), ultrasonography, and venography. Each of these techniques require a physicians order and usually is done at a hospital or outpatient radiology facility.

 

[Clean]

BTW, he can't do shit with a needle, usually they give you blood thinners for a pretty long while.

 

[Fonz]

I never said I fell for it. I don't know shit about acupuncture or whether or not an acupuncturist can tell if you have blood clots. Give me some peace of mind and tell me why it's complete bullshit.

Get an ecocardiogram done. And also get tested for your heart enzymatic values.

That'll tell you everything you need to know.

Accunpunture to me is total BS.

 

[Clean]

it is impossible to diagnosis by way of acupuncture

 

[GoldenDelicious]

JA mate, its complete, utter, total, bullshit.

if you have a blood clot inside your body you will know about it- you will have some swelling, oedema (fluid buildup in the area...sort of like when you dislocate a joint and it puffs up) and all that. you cannot detect a blood clot by pushing down anywhere since they are all of 5mm in size, usually.

a blood clot is a medical emergency. if you have one, you need to be on thrombolytic (clot dissolving) drugs and then anti thrombosis (clot) drugs for quite a while. there is no way in hell someone with a blood clot would be told to come back 8 times. rediculous. youve been scammed.

whats worse, you told us about it

take it easy mate

 

[Bulldog_10]

Get an ecocardiogram done. And also get tested for your heart enzymatic values.

That'll tell you everything you need to know.

Accunpunture to me is total BS.

I didn't think echo's would show blood clots...wouldn't an MRI be a better option for something like this?

 

[Clean]

I believe you will need an electrocardiogram to determine whether you have PAC's or PAF's, that is after you have the echocardiogram. (paroxysmal atrial fibrillation and premature atrial contractions)

The EKG helps in the timing of various cardiac events (filling and emptying of chambers). A colorless gel is then applied to the chest and the echo transducer is placed on top of it. The echo technologist then makes recordings from different parts of the chest to obtain several views of the heart.

 

[Fonz]

BTW, he can't do shit with a needle, usually they give you blood thinners for a pretty long while.

Blood thinners like Aspirin, and drugs that increase the slickness of the red blood cells, so that they flow more easily through the veins and arteries.

Anyways, good luck.

Fonz

 

[Clean]

Pumping function of the heart can be assessed by echocardiography. One can tell if the pumping power of the heart is normal or reduced to a mild or severe degree. This measure is known as an ejection fraction or EF. A normal EF is around 55 to 65%. Numbers below 45% usually represent some decrease in the pumping strength of the heart, while numbers below 30 to 35% are representative of an important decrease.

Drugs such as fondaparinux or a continuous intravenous infusion of heparin are also used to treat a pulmonary embolism.

 

[Juice Authority]

Guys,

Thanks for your feedback. Blood clots is an area I don't know much about. I've been searching all over the Internet to see if this could possibly be diagnosed through acupuncture and came up empty handed. I found some Chinese web sites that claim acupuncture can treat Thrombosis - the formation of a clot or clots inside a blood vessel as distinguished from the clotting of blood outside a blood vessel.

http://alternativehealing.org/Thrombosis.htm

 

[Clean]

Acupuncture is supposed to increase blood flow, but that by itself wouldn't be enough to treat a pulmonary embolism (blockage or obstruction). Blood clots are emergencies.

 

[Fonz]

Guys,

Thanks for your feedback. Blood clots is an area I don't know much about. I've been searching all over the Internet to see if this could possibly be diagnosed through acupuncture and came up empty handed. I found some Chinese web sites that claim acupuncture can treat Thrombosis - the formation of a clot or clots inside a blood vessel as distinguished from the clotting of blood outside a blood vessel.

http://alternativehealing.org/Thrombosis.htm

Thrombosis, if not acute can be treated with a single enteric coated aspirin/day. The clots will eventually break down.

Just go see the cardiac specialist. I don't think you have a blod clot, but I do think your ejection factors for your heart are a bit off.

 

[Clean]

Thrombosis, if not acute can be treated with a single enteric coated aspirin/day. The clots will eventually break down.

Just go see the cardiac specialist. I don't think you have a blod clot, but I do think your ejection factors for your heart are a bit off.

Do you think the ejection fraction is off because of his 68 resting heart rate? (which I don't think is very good, IMO, but it is not too bad.)

 

[Juice Authority]

Do you think the ejection fraction is off because of his 68 resting heart rate? (which I don't think is very good, IMO, but it is not too bad.)

A resting heart of 68 is well within the normal range.

 

[Fonz]

Do you think the ejection fraction is off because of his 68 resting heart rate? (which I don't think is very good, IMO)

Well, mine is 58, but I'm 183lbs and an athlete...so comes with the territotry.

JA's a lot bigger than me and does far less cardio, so the ejection fraction would have to be miss-timed(One fraction is not synchronous with the other) in order for such a low heart rate to be detected.

But this is pure speculation. I know guys that don't do squat, smoke and generally wat like shit and have resting BP's of 65, with perfectly normal cardiac rythms.

If he has a history of cardiac problems(family wise), then i would be worried...as they are very much genetic.

 

[Clean]

gotcha gotcha.

I had mine tested 3 years ago, it was 43 resting.

 

[Clean]

A resting heart of 68 is well within the normal range.

Your exactly right it is, usually it should'nt be over 80. So you are good. I just didn't know how he thought you needed to get it checked out. Wasn't saying you are out of shape

 

[Juice Authority]

gotcha gotcha.

I had mine tested 3 years ago, it was 43 resting.

Wow that's low. What do you attribuite to that?

 

[Bulldog_10]

Wow that's low. What do you attribuite to that?

A good stroke volume from high contractility is all i can think of.

 

[Clean]

Wow that's low. What do you attribuite to that?

Competitive swimming, for years.

 

[Clean]

A good stroke volume from high contractility is all i can think of.

LOL, well I wasn't going to say that! But yes, I guess you could.

 

[sconoscuito]

I had a bloodclot in my shoulder

I had to take coumadin for about 5 months I think but not exactly sure... after I was done with coumadin they told me to take asprin but I never really did cause the blood clot pretty much went away


by the way, I doubt its a blood clot cause when I had one, my whole hand was twice the size of the other one, than again my main vein was blocked so for you it micht just be one of the small ones

either way, I would go to a doctor and get it checked out, with ultrasound or whtvater you call those fancy thnigs

 

[Bulldog_10]

George Muresan?!?!?!

 

[sconoscuito]

I need to change that


calvin booth

 

[GoldenDelicious]

I didn't think echo's would show blood clots...wouldn't an MRI be a better option for something like this?

echocardiogram would pick up heart abnormalities, and enzyme levels indicate cardiac damage/cell death. its ok bulldog, given the poster of those comments, i feel it is my duty to direct you to the salt shaker in your kitchen cupboard

an mri is more appropriate, yes.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Thrombosis, if not acute can be treated with a single enteric coated aspirin/day. The clots will eventually break down.

no, actually, they cannot. aspirin affects platelet aggregation, and reduced the chances of clots occurring. once the clotting cascade has started (look it up, im not going to educate you about basic physiology) then platelets become irrelevent.

once you hav a clot, you need thrombolytics. these are highly specialised drugs, and are administered by a pro, along with a boatload of adjuvant drugs. the previous poster on coumadin or warfarin or whatever is testament to that.

clots can eventually break down, it is true...but if they do not, and migrate to the brain or the heart, then you suffer a heart attack or a stroke. do you really really want to be responsible for helping this situation to occur?

fonz, i dont have a problem with you posting bullshit about things which are not potentially lethal. if someone wants to drink 4 gallons of green tea because you told them that it will help them, then fine. if they want to spend 200 bucks on l-carnitine because it gives you a buzz, then fine. but when it comes to suspected blood clots etc, then your advice might make someone think that an aspirin and a nap might solve the problem. people love to deny that something is seriously wrong with them and will believe ANYTHING other than that they ahve a serious condition. do everyone a favour and dont add fuel to this particular fire.

 

[Fonz]

no, actually, they cannot. aspirin affects platelet aggregation, and reduced the chances of clots occurring. once the clotting cascade has started (look it up, im not going to educate you about basic physiology) then platelets become irrelevent.

once you hav a clot, you need thrombolytics. these are highly specialised drugs, and are administered by a pro, along with a boatload of adjuvant drugs. the previous poster on coumadin or warfarin or whatever is testament to that.

clots can eventually break down, it is true...but if they do not, and migrate to the brain or the heart, then you suffer a heart attack or a stroke. do you really really want to be responsible for helping this situation to occur?

fonz, i dont have a problem with you posting bullshit about things which are not potentially lethal. if someone wants to drink 4 gallons of green tea because you told them that it will help them, then fine. if they want to spend 200 bucks on l-carnitine because it gives you a buzz, then fine. but when it comes to suspected blood clots etc, then your advice might make someone think that an aspirin and a nap might solve the problem. people love to deny that something is seriously wrong with them and will believe ANYTHING other than that they ahve a serious condition. do everyone a favour and dont add fuel to this particular fire.

All the doctor has to do is increase the viscosity of the blood and thin it. This can be done with aspirin and drugs you don't even know about.

And I'll let you look up what viscosity means, since you being fresh out of school, probably never took fluid mechanics in his life.

But keep on trying to bash me, in the end you will get banned not me.


I'm indifferent to you now.....I could care less about what you have to say because you're just another pet marsupial from trashology trying to create chaos and impress needsize. (Which in rettrospect is quite pathetic).

So, I won't fall into your little trap......fire away...I'm just going to ignore you. You're not even worth my caloric expenditure typing responses to your posts.

Fonz

 

[GoldenDelicious]

All the doctor has to do is increase the viscosity of the blood and thin it. This can be done with aspirin and drugs you don't even know about.

incorrect. viscocity has little to do with it. aspirin and platelet action have little effect on viscocity in any event.

also, as a pharmacist, im the guy the doctor calls before he injects, when he is unsure of something. belittling my knowledge or ability is just plain stupid, mate.

And I'll let you look up what viscosity means, since you being fresh out of school, probably never took fluid mechanics in his life.

incorrect. i have to be able to formulate solutions and suspensions. i have spent considerable time learning and modelling viscocity and the forces which affect it. i had to do a number of pracs specifically on viscometry in pharmaceutics (none of which i enjoyed, though).

But keep on trying to bash me, in the end you will get banned not me.

i am not trying to bash you. just to correct you. although you take it with ill grace. theres nothing wrong iwth not knowing something, fonz. there is something wrong with misinforming people intentionally, though.

I'm indifferent to you now.....I could care less about what you have to say because you're just another pet marsupial from trashology trying to create chaos and impress needsize. (Which in rettrospect is quite pathetic).

So, I won't fall into your little trap......fire away...I'm just going to ignore you. You're not even worth my caloric expenditure typing responses to your posts.

Fonz

fonz i could have torn you up the middle with your posts in this thread, but did not. im not here to be popular, im just here to pass a little time, and help if i can. correcting your posts was nothing personal (although i could have made it so). so please, stop insinuating that i am attacking you for the sake of it.

 

[Bulldog_10]

echocardiogram would pick up heart abnormalities, and enzyme levels indicate cardiac damage/cell death. its ok bulldog, given the poster of those comments, i feel it is my duty to direct you to the salt shaker in your kitchen cupboard

an mri is more appropriate, yes.

Echo's would pick up wall-motion abnormalities, which would be present in the case of a heart attack...I didn't think we were talking about cell death here...I thought we might have been talking ischemia at the worst. I didn't think that would effect enzyme levels or wall motion.

And I'm not sure what the salt shaker comment was about...is that a crack on me?

 

[GoldenDelicious]

looking for a bloot clot would entail assessing the whole body. an echocardiogram is limited to the heart. its a tad too specific for a first test.

and of course the salt shaker thing isnt a crack on you, why would i do that? think of who you quoted, and think of me saying something about a grain of salt...im sure itll come to you

 

[Bulldog_10]

looking for a bloot clot would entail assessing the whole body. an echocardiogram is limited to the heart. its a tad too specific for a first test.

and of course the salt shaker thing isnt a crack on you, why would i do that? think of who you quoted, and think of me saying something about a grain of salt...im sure itll come to you

LOL...Ok, the reason for the confusion was that i thought I quoted YOU originally. I guess I should have known better

 

[GoldenDelicious]

guess you shoulda

 

[Fonz]

guess you shoulda

Dot Dot Dot....

 

[onebigab]

I am going to see a doctor on Friday. How would you know if you had a blood clot? This is virgin territory for me. Shit, I'm only 30. I sure hope I dont have blood clots.

Go to your DR. and explain to him what you told us. Have him do an ECHO and maybe do a stress test. Sounds like bullshit to me but a piece of mind is worth more than anything.

 

[needsize]

I'm indifferent to you now.....I could care less about what you have to say because you're just another pet marsupial from trashology trying to create chaos and impress needsize. (Which in rettrospect is quite pathetic).


Fonz

I have finally figured it out, fonz, you post like you hate me so much, but you bring me up at least once a day....you have a crush on me dont you... Don't stress it, lots of gay guys dig bodybuilders

 

[danielson]

chinese medicine is different to western in that you can diagnose things using this weird ass shit, how triue it is depends on the practicioner i guess

is it possible this guy had bad english? so meant something else when he said blood clot.....and did he say in which part of the body the blood clot was located in?

if they 'removed' the clots it will be interesting to see what shows up. MRI will show clotted (old) blood, but its expensive. echocardiocgram will show the function of heart wall and any free fluid, it could also therefore show the difference between thefree flowing fluid and any obstuctions, but it would be limited to the area it scans

V/Q (ventilation perfusion scans) would be used for pulmonary embolisms, angiography for anything else and D-dimers (blood test) may show if there is any large scale clotting going on


personally i think its BS, but i would DEFINATELY let a western doctor look me over before i let someone stick needles in me again. acupuncture is an amazing way of medicine but the practiciners aren;t regulated and are therefore untrustworthy in their diagnosis's

 

[OnMyWayBack]

Oh my god, I can't believe your post! I am astounded at this accupuncture place and taken aback about how little the average person knows about medicine.

PLEASE go to your real MD and have him take a look at the puncture wounds they made on your chest as well as draw blood. NEVER let someone stick a needle in your chest to draw blood. This could easily puncture your lung or rupture a vessel and you'll have internal bleeding as well as other things. They could have broken the pericardial sac that surrounds your heart and introduced bacteria which could be life threatening. There are so many things that could have happened to you just from the puncture wound of how they took out the blood which is scares me to death! Go to your doctor immediately, don't wait for an appt. just show up tell him it's an emergency regardless of if you feel fine or not.

Yes, they ripped you off but more than that they are practicing medicine in a very very dangerous way. Sticking needles into a persons chest can result in death. There's no way in hell that they can tell that you have a blood clot, or bad blood around your heart. That is such a joke to me. Your probably just fine with the exception of the needle stick and potential complications that could come from that.

Why was your blood cloudy looking from where they took it from? Well they probably put it into a tube that had something in it to make it look like that.

Just please get to your doctor, all we can do is speculate on what could have happened. Do NOT ever go back to that place unless you like risking your life.

I am a medical professional so please take my advice. I'd hate to see your story on the news!

 

[jenscats5]

My husband got a blood clot from his iliac on the left side down his entire left leg -- the left leg was swollen about 3 sizes bigger than normal, flushed red & warm to the touch.....

In the emergency room they did an ultrasound doppler reading on the leg to verify if it was a clot & they found the entire vein was clotted up to the iliac.....the dr's inserted a catheter into the back of his knee which had little holes in it in which they used Retavase (sp?) to try to eat up the clot (kinda like Draino they told me). The Retavase didn't work entirely so they used an angiojet to whirr up the clot (kinda like Roto Rooter or snaking a drain). He was on Coumadin for 3 months afterwards.

However he now has vein damage from the surgeries and constant foot pain in his left leg. I don't know much about acupuncture or how they could tell if you had clots but my husband got the clot on day 2 of our vacation in the Bahamas & didn't go to the emergency room until 10 days later & he's pretty much fine now....but a clot isn't anything to mess with....

Oh also, he felt a "pinching" feeling in his left side a couple of days beforehand which is also a symptom of a blood clot.....he was 42 at the time & very healthy....

Take care...

 

[Latamier]

If you are that worried about it, just go to your Gp and tell him. If he thinks there is any truth to their statements we'll just send you for a CBC to rule out any trouble. Sounds like bullshit to me to though, bro.