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Masterone & Winstrol stack update...

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Two weeks into my 50 mg masterone/50 mg winstrol/20 mg prop ed stack, and only down 3 lbs, but several people have commented that I look abit bigger and leaner. So far I'm seeing a little mroe vascularity, and my tri's seem to be fuller. I definately feel harder to the touch, but I'm still holding a film of water. My strength is still very good despite reduced calories and carbs.

This is my first experience with masterone, and I like it. It seems to be helping me make some strength gains while slowly cutting. I'm a bit concerned that I am holding a bit of water and my nips look a bit puffy despite being on 20 mg of prop every day (that is only 140 mg of test a week).
 
Sounds like a hot stack. Are you running an anti-e or anti-a? I'd make sure I am and then bump the test. That's just me of course. Glad to hear things are successful over-all.
 
No, I'm out of letro. The thing is I was using 50 mg of prop ed, with 25 mg of tren every day recently after running out of letro and my nips were not puffy. Having reduced my test, and using two compounds taht are not aromatase substraits I shouldn't be having this as all. My powder supplier has a very good rep, so I don't think the compounds are something other than what he advertised. Perhaps I need to aquire a bit of letro again.
 
140mg/week test can easily be you too much. Who says that won't cause a problem without an anti-e?
 
BodyByFinaplix said:
Two weeks into my 50 mg masterone/50 mg winstrol/20 mg prop ed stack, and only down 3 lbs, but several people have commented that I look abit bigger and leaner. So far I'm seeing a little mroe vascularity, and my tri's seem to be fuller. I definately feel harder to the touch, but I'm still holding a film of water. My strength is still very good despite reduced calories and carbs.

This is my first experience with masterone, and I like it. It seems to be helping me make some strength gains while slowly cutting. I'm a bit concerned that I am holding a bit of water and my nips look a bit puffy despite being on 20 mg of prop every day (that is only 140 mg of test a week).

Try this...it's the ultimate stack for granite hardness:

1. Fina at 75mg ED
2. Masteron at 75mg ED
3. Anavar at 50mg ED
4. Proviron at 50mg/day

No need for test, as the proviron is there. Therefore no chnace whatsoever of itchy or puffy nips.

You "can" substitute the anavar for 50-100mg Winstrol/day but your HDl will go below < 10. Not good.
 
What are the primary differences between Winstrol and Masteron??

Also Fonz, you mentioned that your Anavar could be substituted with Winstrol but if so your HDL would go below 10, what is HDL and how do you check what level it is at?
 
I have just recently started using proviron as an anti-E as fonz has layed out with my cycles as well. I like it 10 times better than nolvadex. Actually seems to help out the ole libido. As far as that film of water you are holding, I would just jump on some aldactone to take care of that.
 
wolfs said:
What are the primary differences between Winstrol and Masteron??

Also Fonz, you mentioned that your Anavar could be substituted with Winstrol but if so your HDL would go below 10, what is HDL and how do you check what level it is at?


Both Winstrol and Masteron are DHT derrivatives, therfore they do not make you hold water, therfore they make you look harder.

Problems with both:

1. As DHT derrivatives they are both VERY hard on the hairline

Problems with winstrol:

1. Very hard on joints, and it's double-chemical bonded 17-aa structure is quite hepatioxic for the liver.
2. As it's structure is crystalline, its detection time is impossible to predict. Not good if you're tested.
3. It's the WORST AAS for the good "HDL" cholesterol. Not uncommon for people to go below a value of 10 for HDL while on Winstrol.

Bonuses with both:

1. As Masteron is not 17-aa, no problems with hepatoxicity.
Masteron is a strong androgen, your strength will go up.
2. Winstrol is actually more anabolic than androgenic(200/33 therapeutic ratio), therfore its a great anti-catabolic AAS.

In order to check your HDL levels, you would need to get a cholesterol/lipid blood test. they are usually quite cheap.
 
Fonz said:
Try this...it's the ultimate stack for granite hardness:

1. Fina at 75mg ED
2. Masteron at 75mg ED
3. Anavar at 50mg ED
4. Proviron at 50mg/day

No need for test, as the proviron is there. Therefore no chnace whatsoever of itchy or puffy nips.

You "can" substitute the anavar for 50-100mg Winstrol/day but your HDl will go below < 10. Not good.



damn, if i could afford that kinda money for gear right now i would love to do that cycle!
 
Fonz said:
Both Winstrol and Masteron are DHT derrivatives, therfore they do not make you hold water, therfore they make you look harder.

Problems with both:

1. As DHT derrivatives they are both VERY hard on the hairline

Problems with winstrol:

1. Very hard on joints, and it's double-chemical bonded 17-aa structure is quite hepatioxic for the liver.
2. As it's structure is crystalline, its detection time is impossible to predict. Not good if you're tested.
3. It's the WORST AAS for the good "HDL" cholesterol. Not uncommon for people to go below a value of 10 for HDL while on Winstrol.

Bonuses with both:

1. As Masteron is not 17-aa, no problems with hepatoxicity.
Masteron is a strong androgen, your strength will go up.
2. Winstrol is actually more anabolic than androgenic(200/33 therapeutic ratio), therfore its a great anti-catabolic AAS.

In order to check your HDL levels, you would need to get a cholesterol/lipid blood test. they are usually quite cheap.

Thank you for the lengthy reply.

From what it sounds like, the benefits that can be obtained with Winstrol can also be obtained with Masteron with less side effects, is masteron ALSO anti-catabolic?

Right now I am looking at taking a stack of Sustannon, Deca and Masteron OR Sustannon, Anavar and Masteron...What do you think is better? In the past I have taken Sustanon, primobolan and winstrol where I experienced absolutely phenominal results. I am looking to get the same style gains, perhaps a little bit more. What do you think is a better stack?
 
wolfs said:
Thank you for the lengthy reply.

From what it sounds like, the benefits that can be obtained with Winstrol can also be obtained with Masteron with less side effects, is masteron ALSO anti-catabolic?

Right now I am looking at taking a stack of Sustannon, Deca and Masteron OR Sustannon, Anavar and Masteron...What do you think is better? In the past I have taken Sustanon, primobolan and winstrol where I experienced absolutely phenominal results. I am looking to get the same style gains, perhaps a little bit more. What do you think is a better stack?

No, masteron isn't that anti-catabolic.

1. Trenbolone
2. Winstrol
3. Anavar

Those are the three best anti-catabolic AAS you can find.

I'd go with the Sustanon, anavar, masteron. You only have to worry about estrogenic sides with that one.

Fonz
 
Sounds great, I think that is the mix that I am going to go with an expensive one but I like to make my cycles worth it. For someone who is not to HARDCORE, what is a reasonable dose of Anavar, I weigh in @ around 190. I am fairly lean, 50MG ED? Or is that to much...also, how long can I take anavar for...considering that it IS an oral is it toxic on the liver?

I was planning on taking 500MG of sus a week along with probably around 50mg of anavar ED. When I took winstrol i was only taking 150-200 MG per week and that was perfect...what are some good doses of masteron to take?


Also, considering that I can get legit primo, will i notice better gains with anavar at that dosage say over 300mg of primo a week? Also, will i notice better gains taking the anavar over say 400mg of deca per week. To be honest, I have never really been a fan of Deca thus I never bothered trying it. Hoping to get some more info...thanks again guys!
 
BodyBFP...

How are your moods on that stack Bro? I typically use a Test/Winstrol IM cycle every summer... and I've thought of incorporating Masteron, but I get too sensitive when I use strong androgens.
 
wolfs said:
Sounds great, I think that is the mix that I am going to go with an expensive one but I like to make my cycles worth it. For someone who is not to HARDCORE, what is a reasonable dose of Anavar, I weigh in @ around 190. I am fairly lean, 50MG ED? Or is that to much...also, how long can I take anavar for...considering that it IS an oral is it toxic on the liver?

I was planning on taking 500MG of sus a week along with probably around 50mg of anavar ED. When I took winstrol i was only taking 150-200 MG per week and that was perfect...what are some good doses of masteron to take?


Also, considering that I can get legit primo, will i notice better gains with anavar at that dosage say over 300mg of primo a week? Also, will i notice better gains taking the anavar over say 400mg of deca per week. To be honest, I have never really been a fan of Deca thus I never bothered trying it. Hoping to get some more info...thanks again guys!

Your best bet is:

10 Weeks

1. Sustanon: 500mgs/week
2. Anavar: 40mgs/day
3. Masteron: 50mg ED

Ancilliaries: Novaldex 20mg/day + min. 600mg R-ALA/day for the 17-aa anavar.
 
test also drives me mentally insane. i was thinking of running a masteron/deca cycle or masteron/anavar...i dont want masteron to ruin my mind because its an androgen. fonz can you decifer between the androgenic properties between masteron and test?
 
If you are running a pretty good dose of masteron (50-75mg/day) would there be any point to adding winstrol for a precontest stack?
 
Fonz said:
Your best bet is:

10 Weeks

1. Sustanon: 500mgs/week
2. Anavar: 40mgs/day
3. Masteron: 50mg ED

Ancilliaries: Novaldex 20mg/day + min. 600mg R-ALA/day for the 17-aa anavar.

Again FONZ you teach me something new :) What is 600mg R-ALA/day??? How bad is Anavar on the liver...no where near Winstrol is it? How long can this stuff be taken safely for? Winstrol I stop at 6 weeks....can you go 8-10 on Anavar. Again thank you for the great replies.
 
georgie24 said:
test also drives me mentally insane. i was thinking of running a masteron/deca cycle or masteron/anavar...i dont want masteron to ruin my mind because its an androgen. fonz can you decifer between the androgenic properties between masteron and test?

All tests have a therapeutic value of 1:1 They are equaly androgenic as anabolic.
Masteron I know is more androgenic than anabolic as it's a DHT derrivative, but I've never read in the literature where it stated its therapeutic index(Anabolic:Androgenic ratio), so I don't know.
Winstrol for example hs a 6:1 ratio (200/33) 6 times more anabolic than androgenic.

The Merckx Index might have it, but my university library is closed.
 
Another thing too Fonz. I have noticed that a few members have been asking you about the "Mental" affects of taking an something which is very adrogenic like masteron. I personally was totally cool while on sus, primo and winny.

Is it safe to say that while taking Sus, masteron and anavar my adrogenic level will likely be equivalent to that of my previous cycle?

Is Masteron more adrogenic then Winstrol?
 
wolfs said:
Another thing too Fonz. I have noticed that a few members have been asking you about the "Mental" affects of taking an something which is very adrogenic like masteron. I personally was totally cool while on sus, primo and winny.

Is it safe to say that while taking Sus, masteron and anavar my adrogenic level will likely be equivalent to that of my previous cycle?

Is Masteron more adrogenic then Winstrol?

Yes, Masteron is definately more androgenic than winstrol.

Androgenic AAS stimulate the synapses to emit stronger impulses. These stronger impulses is where aggresive behaviour comes from. It's also where androgenic AAS get their famed power from. Stronger electrical impulses = more strength. Same analogy with adrenaline and the adrenergic system. Ephedrine mimics adrenaline, and once you take it, you increase adrenaline levels and strength levels go up a good 10-15%. You probably have experienced this phenomenon.

However, only Halotestin IMO has the sufficient androgenicity to affect a persons behavior sufficiently. The rest of the cases of aggressive behavior due to AAS are more likely the fault of the user who just forewent controlling his impulses. Basically, the AAS gave him a reason to "let go".

Another peculiar AAS is winstrol...which acts sort of like a Benzo on the CNS system..so once discontinued, the person using winstrol often gets depressed. I believe there's a post floating around there somewhere where Huck posted a study mentioning this.
 
Sorry guys, but in humans there has been found to be no correlation between high androgen levels and aggression. This has been studied extensively.
 
BodyByFinaplix said:
Sorry guys, but in humans there has been found to be no correlation between high androgen levels and aggression. This has been studied extensively.

Which is what i said...with IMO the exception of Halotestin. I have seen guys who could tolerate antyhing go literally crazy on it for no reason. And they where experienced users. Could be one of those cases where research comes up short when compared to real life effects. You have to remember that the number of people taking part in such research studies is small when juxtaposed with people actually using the drug for performance purposes in the real world. There's bound to be a small degree of error in predicting effects.
 
Agreed, the studies have not looked at androgen levels often seen in atheletes who use moderate to high doses of steroids, however, we know that at the upper threashold of test levels that humans have naturally, we do not see an above average tendenacy for aggression, thus it would appear that androgen mediated aggression in humans (ie roid rage) is a myth.

I would look at the stack your proposed were my budget not what it currently is (you know what its like to be a student). I've found that winstrol and tren, as you pointed out, when used together wreak havoc on my lipid profile.
 
Fonz said:
Which is what i said...with IMO the exception of Halotestin. I have seen guys who could tolerate antyhing go literally crazy on it for no reason. And they where experienced users. Could be one of those cases where research comes up short when compared to real life effects. You have to remember that the number of people taking part in such research studies is small when juxtaposed with people actually using the drug for performance purposes in the real world. There's bound to be a small degree of error in predicting effects.

are u sure?...im not doubting any scientific fact or studies, but i honestly get pretty nuts on anadrol after week 2. and clen, eventhough not a horomon, gets me quite edgy also.

....in no way am i relating "getting pretty nuts" to any type of rage. i just find myself geting bent out of shape over things i normally wouldnt. idk
 
Fonz you mentioned that Masteron is more Adrogenic then Winstrol, where as Winstrol is more Anabolic then Masteron.

It has been quite some time for me since I have played with this stuff, so if someone could let me know what this means that would be great.

The fact that Masteron is more adrogenic then winstrol, does that imply that the gains will not be as great??? Even though I may have harder muscles and more strength?

Please clarify.
 
bicepts101 said:
are u sure?...im not doubting any scientific fact or studies, but i honestly get pretty nuts on anadrol after week 2. and clen, eventhough not a horomon, gets me quite edgy also.

....in no way am i relating "getting pretty nuts" to any type of rage. i just find myself geting bent out of shape over things i normally wouldnt. idk

Word Bro...

There are definitely drugs I've used that I will never go near again because of the behavioral disturbances I experienced while on them. I recognize that such effects will vary from one individual to another. However, IMO- The math is simple: What I've experienced while taking specific steroids (and Clomid for that matter!), had to have been caused by the respective substance. I'm a good enough self evaluator to know what would cause me to feel/act that way. And like I said above, its a personal thing. I know guys that take 3 times the Drol I took... their moods aren't impacted in the least. I don't even want to get into what happens when I use Nandrolone (Deca OR NPP). Clomid is the third drug I steer clear of.
 
Tren makes me mean like a motherfucker.
 
its been a while since i have heard from good masteron, but in this recent year, I know more labs have been making it. What are some good labs for masteron that are out now?
 
Fonz; It would have been great if you could answer wolfs last question. "Androgenic VS anabolic" is something that interest me too.

When talking about Trenbolone, everybody says that it's a great steroid because it's a high androgenic steroid. But when reading about Proviron we can see this steroid is also high androgenic, but Proviron will not make you gain a pound when used alone. So, here are two high androgenic steroids, but just one of them are any good used alone....

This makes me think that it's only the anabolic part that matters. And the androgenic part is just something that brings sideeffects like bodyhair, hairloss etc...

But, I'm sure it's not like this, so please explain what the androgenic part does for mass and strenght gains! :)
 
MR Pink said:
Fonz,

do you recomment proviron on any cycle or just cutting cycles?

For any cycle. Proviron helps in PCT, as it it's slightly weaker than test and boosts LH more than any drug I know. Boosting LH during pCT is critical for HPTA recovery.

During the cycle, Proviron increases your libido and also is an anti-aromatase...which hardens your physique.
 
wolfs said:
Fonz you mentioned that Masteron is more Adrogenic then Winstrol, where as Winstrol is more Anabolic then Masteron.

It has been quite some time for me since I have played with this stuff, so if someone could let me know what this means that would be great.

The fact that Masteron is more adrogenic then winstrol, does that imply that the gains will not be as great??? Even though I may have harder muscles and more strength?

Please clarify.

If all things remain equal you will gain more mass on winstrol than on Masteron, because winstrol drastically increases nitrogen retention, while Masteron does not. However DHT is a CNS stimulant, so your strength will be greater on Masteron than on winstrol.
 
bounced said:
Fonz; It would have been great if you could answer wolfs last question. "Androgenic VS anabolic" is something that interest me too.

When talking about Trenbolone, everybody says that it's a great steroid because it's a high androgenic steroid. But when reading about Proviron we can see this steroid is also high androgenic, but Proviron will not make you gain a pound when used alone. So, here are two high androgenic steroids, but just one of them are any good used alone....

This makes me think that it's only the anabolic part that matters. And the androgenic part is just something that brings sideeffects like bodyhair, hairloss etc...

But, I'm sure it's not like this, so please explain what the androgenic part does for mass and strenght gains! :)

Tren is three times as androgenic and twice as anabolic as Test.

So, in theory, Tren should give you much better strength gains and also better muscle gains...which it does.

So, if its 3X androgenic, and 2X as anabolic...it's therpeutic index ratio is 1.5 Above tests wjicj is the benchmark for all AAS at 1.0,

Proviron is very androgenic but very, very mildly anabolic. I'm not usre of the number but it's combined therapeutic Index ratio is < 1.0 Making it weaker than test.(Moast likely due to it's non-existant anabolic properties)
 
i thought anavar had liver regenerating properties...?????
....do you need to inject masteron ed or you go eod, e3d....?????
 
Oiltanker said:
i thought anavar had liver regenerating properties...?????
....do you need to inject masteron ed or you go eod, e3d....?????

Anavar does not have liver regeneration properties.
The study you're thinking about was the one where Anavar was given to chronic alcoholics due to severe weight loss and their liver values improved. Thatrs how mild anavar is on the liver.

For Masteron..ED is best. But if you hate ED shots, you can go EOD.

Fonz
 
now im confused again.....
base= gh, t3, slin
...was going to take: sust & eq
then switch on to masteron & prop/phenyl
..i also have anavar..

...now im not sure what combo to mix w/ what...

..maybe:
sust, masteron, anavar ..then...eq, prop/phenyl
 
Oiltanker said:
now im confused again.....
base= gh, t3, slin
...was going to take: sust & eq
then switch on to masteron & prop/phenyl
..i also have anavar..

...now im not sure what combo to mix w/ what...

..maybe:
sust, masteron, anavar ..then...eq, prop/phenyl

go:
sust
anavar
eq

prop
masteron
eq

how long is your cycle gonna be....you werent planing on running eq for less than 8 or 10 weeks were you?
 
Fonz; From your answer it seems like it doesn't matter how androgenic a steroid is, if it's not much anabolic. Like proviron, high androgenic, low anabolic = no gains.

Tren is anabolic, ok. But what does the androgenic part in tren do for any good for mass/strenght? We know it doesn't do much in proviron....

Thanks
 
well the androgenic side of a steroid is basically all of the side effect of it. hailoss, bloat, gyno, prostate problems, aggresion, bodyhair growth...stuff like that.
 
Bicepts101; And that is what I have learned before. But when people on boards write about tren and other high androgenic steroids, they claim the great strenght/mass gains comes from the high androgenic level of the drug, which I have learned is the anabolic part that does.

So now I've start to wonder if the androgenic part does anything more than give sideeffects?

If so, Proviron should be a great steroid. But it isn't...(alone that is)
 
So the ultimate stack would be:

Tren 75 ED
Winny 50 ED
and Proviron how much/often?

The Tren and winny would give you a nice hard look and the Proviron should keep the "BODY WORKIN RIGHT"? or would you just add a little test? The complete shut you down thing that everyone claims Tren does scares the hell out of me
 
bicepts101 said:
go:
sust
anavar
eq

prop
masteron
eq

how long is your cycle gonna be....you werent planing on running eq for less than 8 or 10 weeks were you?

eq- at least 10-15wks and thanks for the reply btw..
 
bicepts101 said:
well the androgenic side of a steroid is basically all of the side effect of it. hailoss, bloat, gyno, prostate problems, aggresion, bodyhair growth...stuff like that.

then whats the big deal w/ MASTERON.....this will be my first time trying it--would just going w/ winny or tren be better

...hey FONZ or whoever can give a quick rating comparing
...WINNY..TREN..MASTERON...
--on things like toxicity, best for ? application/goal, sides / benefits etc...
 
Fonz said:
Try this...it's the ultimate stack for granite hardness:

1. Fina at 75mg ED
2. Masteron at 75mg ED
3. Anavar at 50mg ED
4. Proviron at 50mg/day

No need for test, as the proviron is there. Therefore no chnace whatsoever of itchy or puffy nips.

You "can" substitute the anavar for 50-100mg Winstrol/day but your HDl will go below < 10. Not good.

What's the reasoning to take both Proviron and Masteron. They're the same thing!
 
Koivu_11 said:
What's the reasoning to take both Proviron and Masteron. They're the same thing!

They're not.

And it's for your libido. Proviron will keep it going full tilt.
 
Oiltanker said:
then whats the big deal w/ MASTERON.....this will be my first time trying it--would just going w/ winny or tren be better

...hey FONZ or whoever can give a quick rating comparing
...WINNY..TREN..MASTERON...
--on things like toxicity, best for ? application/goal, sides / benefits etc...

from reports of users..masteron seems to dry you out better and without the joint pains of winny. winny is horrible for lipids and masteron is not. winny is horrible for the liver. masteron is not. anotherr plus of masteron is the injections dont leave you limping like a retard all cycle. masteron seems to give better strengh gains cause of the higher aggresion it may bring you. (im not exaclty sure on that one)....ive also heard that winstrol has some fat burning effects. ill dig up something on that.

FONZ....where do u stand on the theories that winstrol accually raises body temp, helping to burn fat? ive never heard you speak of it...
 
bicepts101 said:
from reports of users..masteron seems to dry you out better and without the joint pains of winny. winny is horrible for lipids and masteron is not. winny is horrible for the liver. masteron is not. anotherr plus of masteron is the injections dont leave you limping like a retard all cycle. masteron seems to give better strengh gains cause of the higher aggresion it may bring you. (im not exaclty sure on that one)....ive also heard that winstrol has some fat burning effects. ill dig up something on that.

FONZ....where do u stand on the theories that winstrol accually raises body temp, helping to burn fat? ive never heard you speak of it...

Winstrol doesn't raise body temperature. No AAS raises body temperature. They burn fat through other means like PGF2A increases(Tren). AAS also burn fat through enhanced glucose clearance, therfore lowering insulin levels and leading to more FFA's to be burned for fuel. Like Anadrol and Nandralone.

What winstrol does(And what it was manufactured for) was to reduce edema in dogs. Edema = accumulation of water. Therefore, winstrol acts as a sort off water shedder. It'll dry you out.
 
fukkenshredded says winny WILL burn fat. however giving the apropriate atmosphere for the drug to do its thing is up to you. when my pack arrives in the mail ill be running primo/winny/proviron then after 7 weeks switch the winny for anavar.
 
Fonz said:
Winstrol doesn't raise body temperature. No AAS raises body temperature. They burn fat through other means like PGF2A increases(Tren). AAS also burn fat through enhanced glucose clearance, therfore lowering insulin levels and leading to more FFA's to be burned for fuel. Like Anadrol and Nandralone.

What winstrol does(And what it was manufactured for) was to reduce edema in dogs. Edema = accumulation of water. Therefore, winstrol acts as a sort off water shedder. It'll dry you out.

ok bro...heres what shredded has to say:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

First off, I am mystified about the skepticism surrounding the assertion that winstrol is pyrogenic. Pyrogenic simply means 'fever producing', and it is a well known side effect of this steroid, even listed in common medical journals as a side effect. Keep in mind that this occurs at doses as low as 2mg/day. I think Nigel Verger, in one of his articles, provides a table from a medical journal that lists this and other effects. Anyway...

The primary use of stanozolol in humans is to treat hereditary angioedema. This condition causes swelling of the face, hands, feet, neck, throat, and other areas, as a result of an improper distribution of water in the organism, not connected (necessarily) to sodium levels. Ok, so this drug reduces the swelling, again, in doses as low as 2mg/day.

You see where I am going with this, I am sure. We can conclude from the very use of this drug that it has a water-redistributing effect on the organism. In fact, anyone who has used it for any period of time can attest to the effects resulting from internal dehydration, such as constipation, cramps, headaches, dry mouth, blurred vision, etc. Now, this is not to say that the subcutaneous water retention is not possible on this drug, because that particular effect is a seperate condition from the effect of water redistribution around the organs and musculature. I will leave the differential explanation to someone more knowledgable, but I guarantee that winstrol will remove water from specific areas, including many organs. This is dangerous if prolonged indefinitely.

About this tendon issue...I think I have that solved as well. Consider the recent study (I will get it) that showed that winstrol increased collagen synthesis in small doses, and that the increase seems to be dose related. Well, let's think about that. If the receptors are not evenly distributed throughout the tendon, then the accelerated growth would not occur evenly. Rather, it would occur more rapidly directly around the areas that were more densely populated with receptors, which could conceivably result in a nodule of growth in the tendon. This would result in a tendon that is not uniform in its tensile strength, and would be susceptible to rupture at the area directly above or below the nodule. This is speculation, but it is a theory that makes sense to me.

Lastly. Winstrol has a unique anticatabolic action. For a great description of this, you should read Dr. Scruggs little paragraph about stanozolol. I will try and find it. Anyway, it turns out that winstrol has little or no effect on GH and IGF-1 levels, and therefore does not effectively recruit and impact sattelite cells. So the anabolic of effect of winstrol is minimal, at best. So why do we get stronger? Well, it does increase nitrogen retention, and we know how important that is for muscle growth. But, more importantly, it preserves the muslce we already have, meaning that any new growth will not be 'cancelled out' by muscle degeneration. Testoserone is superior in terms of being anabolic/androgenic, but testosterone also creates protien degradation at a much more accelerated rate than does winstrol. So, yoiu don't build as much muscle, but you keep what you get. Also, winstrol increases bone density. Now, it is interesting to note that winstrol is second only to trenbelone in terms of its anticatabolic property, and in fact, I think it is superior on a mg for mg basis, but I cannot yet support this claim with the appropriate science. Call it a hunch for now. Of course, my hypothesis that winstrol acted on a unique receptor found in the skin was a hunch for about a year, and later turned out to be proven in a study that was posted on AF, and that receptor is as of yet unidentified. Lets just say I had my reasons. Moving on...

Here is what we are left with. A superior anticatabolic compound that increases body temperature. Well, shit! What more do you need for cutting? Moreover, our strength is greatly enhanced because we are able to build on top of the matured muscle rather than burn it up. Ok. This little overview might help to clarify some of the statements that were, unfortunately, clumsily written in the initial post.
 
Proviron = 1 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one

Masteron = 2 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one

What's the difference between them? The 1alpha-methyl group makes it oral active. For your receptors, it's the same thing.
 
Koivu_11 said:
Proviron = 1 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one

Masteron = 2 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one

What's the difference between them? The 1alpha-methyl group makes it oral active. For your receptors, it's the same thing.

No. Changing the first functional group from 2-alpha-Methyl(Masteron) and reducing it to 1-alpha-methyl, changes the anabolic activity of the compound considerably. The androgenicity stays the same, but the anabolic variant goes way down. As you already know proviron is an strong androgen but a poor anabolic.

i.e. Masteron can be reduced to Proviron at the expense of its anabolic properties.
 
OK, that is alot of info about winstrol, thanks Fonz!

So is a Masteron, 150mg's EOD, Winstrol 50mg's ED, Propinate 150mg's EOD and GH a good cutting cycle? Also, is it safe as far as for the liver with 600mg's of ALA?

Thanks for the input

macster
 
Fonz said:
Try this...it's the ultimate stack for granite hardness:

1. Fina at 75mg ED
2. Masteron at 75mg ED
3. Anavar at 50mg ED
4. Proviron at 50mg/day


Yo fonz , how about this stack :

1-Test prop 150 mg EOD
2-Aromasin 12.5 mg EOD
3-Anavar 50 mg ED
4-Winny 100 mg EOD
5-Materon 100 mg EOD

Is this a good one ?



Victor
 
FONZ....that's a hot stack.
Try this...it's the ultimate stack for granite hardness:

1. Fina at 75mg ED
2. Masteron at 75mg ED
3. Anavar at 50mg ED
4. Proviron at 50mg/day

No need for test, as the proviron is there. Therefore no chnace whatsoever of itchy or puffy nips.

You "can" substitute the anavar for 50-100mg Winstrol/day but your HDl will go below < 10. Not good.
 
Mythicalbeing said:
FONZ....that's a hot stack.
Try this...it's the ultimate stack for granite hardness:

1. Fina at 75mg ED
2. Masteron at 75mg ED
3. Anavar at 50mg ED
4. Proviron at 50mg/day

No need for test, as the proviron is there. Therefore no chnace whatsoever of itchy or puffy nips.

You "can" substitute the anavar for 50-100mg Winstrol/day but your HDl will go below < 10. Not good.


:chomp: look goooood..i like this cycle you laid out :p
 
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