maintainable body fat %

[woof]

Hi everyone,
I just finished reading the "leaning out big legs" threads and was curious about Gladiola's comment that a woman must be about 12%BF to lose that layer of fat on her legs. I am a competitive cyclist, about 13%BF, and, much to my dismay, DO have some unwanted fat on my legs! I am so jealous of my male friends (and even a few female racers) who have nice lean legs and more defined muscle . Two questions:
1) What do all you competitive BB/figure/Plifters think is a maintainable BF level for a natural woman?
2) What are your contest and off-season BF%
Oops, just thought of one more question:
3) Does the use of AAS change the answers to 1,2 much?
and 1 more silly question:
4)Does anyone else carry fat on the inside of the thigh, just above the knee? I know better than to think I can spot reduce this but are there any exercises that might firm up the muscle in this area?
Thanks in advance for your replies!

 

[Gladiola]

Gladiola's comment that a woman must be about 12%BF to lose that layer of fat on her legs.

Well, just to clarify I said a lady PROBABLY has to be lean & threw 12% out there as a "Maybe" number. I honestly have no idea what % it will be, I just know that quad separation is something most ladies have to be pretty lean to achieve (i.e. probably lower than 15%).

What % bf is maintainable varies widely based on genetics. I do believe AS changes what is 'maintainable' because it allows you to gain muscle mass while staying lean - or even simultaneously lose bf & gain muscle.

I consider myself pretty lucky in that my fat is concentrated around the hips - upper inner thigh, belly below the navel, & a little bit butt & right by hip bones... I consider that lucky b/c clothes fit well & the rest of my legs (while in shorts) & upper body including upper portion of abs, still look nice & have some visible definition at a BF that is easy for me to maintain.

 

[MS]

I don't consider my legs look lean (as in defined) until I'm under 10%bf. Everyone is different, and I have noticed how many of the fitness/figure chicks are able to lean out their thighs at higher %bf with the use of AAS. Of course, this also some times comes with an increase in waist size, so it's a two edged sword (not to mention all the other sides that can show their face with AAS use). I definitely lose thigh fat when dieting even early on in a diet, but it doesn't come off anywhere near as fast as upper body fat.

I am unlucky My thighs are too big and my butt too small to fit into normal girly clothes, so I resort to wearing track pants or guys clothes. But unlike guys, I don't have anything close to lean thighs.

 

[wilson6]

In or off-season body fat has to do with diet, independent of AAS. While AAS have lipolytic properties, diet is the key player. AAS don't lean you out per se but they do alter leptin to fat mass ration and metabolism. Moreover, the additional muscle mass and ongoing protein synthesis increases metabolic rate.

Body fat distribution has to do with AAS. In many cases, AAS will redistribute body fat to a more central location. When combined with diet, the loss is more proportional (upper and lower), vs primarily upper body. Thus, the end result is more proportional vs a look of two different bodies connected at the waist (one ripped and one fat). That is why even in figure where muscle mass is minimized, AAS are still used. It is the workout that dictates the outcome (i.e., light weights and high reps vs BB or PL routines). Genetics also plays a large role, effects somewhat independent of AAS.

W6

 

[woof]

Hello again,
Thanks for the replies so far.

But what about sustainable bodyfat %? How low is reasonable to maintain all year?

Or what about reasonable on/off season for a woman? Is it reasonable to try to be 11-12% for 5 months and maybe 14-15% the rest of the yr? No AAS or stimulants.

Ive been doing ~13% in season/ 15-16% off and kind of feel like I am always hungry.

Thanks again.

 

[Cheetarah]

Just adding my 2 cents here. I think that genetics accounts for at least 75% of both at what bodyfat level is comfortable to maintain AND what kind of definition you get at a certain bodyfat level. It also has to do with how much muscle you have in the FIRST place, determined by both training and genetics. For example, at my present bodyfat of 16%, I've got both quad definition and a six pack (but only when flexing). I've also got a decent amount of muscle on my frame which I believe helps that definition "come out" so-to-speak. In other words, I believe it is more difficult to get definition if you've not got a decent amount of muscle mass in the first place.

I really think these are questions that are gonna vary for each individual. And for me, so far 16% bodyfat seems to be the lowest bodyfat I can maintain on a clean diet WITHOUT having to restrict my calories. And with speed skating being my main focus, calorie cutting is not a wise option at this point.

Anyway, hope this helps.

 

[MS]

"But what about sustainable bodyfat %? How low is reasonable to maintain all year?"

Yeah, what Cheetarah said. It varies tremendously, and has a lot to do with how fat you've been in the past, your genetics etc.... The fatter you've been, the harder it will be to maintain bodyfat levels much below that highest level. However from a long term health point of view, it's not such a bad idea to be a little bit hungry most of the time, and ocassionally well fed. I go with the middle ground which means that I'm never hungry, but I rarely eat all I want either. This keeps me between 16-18%bf in the off season. Whether or not it is reasonable to maintain 11-12% for 5 months depends on how much you are willing to put up with the hunger and cravings that go along with staying well below your setpoint. It takes discipline and sacrifice.

 

[VeggieLifterChick]

Re: Re: maintainable body fat %

I consider myself pretty lucky in that my fat is concentrated around the hips - upper inner thigh, belly below the navel, & a little bit butt & right by hip bones... I consider that lucky b/c clothes fit well & the rest of my legs (while in shorts) & upper body including upper portion of abs, still look nice & have some visible definition at a BF that is easy for me to maintain.

Hmm, looks like we've got more in common than just the sugar cravings. You described my body to a tee, too!

 

[wilson6]

Also agree with Cheetarah.

15% bodyfat with alot of muscle is going to look far more defined than 15% with very little muscle.

It is relative. Put 10 lbs of muscle under 5 lbs of fat and the muscle will predominate. Put 3 lbs of muscle under 5 lbs of fat and the fat will predominate.


W6

 

[MS]

"Put 10 lbs of muscle under 5 lbs of fat................"

Of course this will change you *percent* bodyfat (effectively reducing it). There is nothing defined about me at 16-18%bf. I am just big. But if you punch me in the arms or thighs, you will still bruise your knuckles!!

 

[Gladiola]

Whether or not it is reasonable to maintain 11-12% for 5 months depends on how much you are willing to put up with the hunger and cravings

Wouldn't you also not be able to ADD any muscle at that low bodyfat? Unless you are on AS... that's the connection I meant wrt low body fat being more maintainable on AS.

 

[wilson6]

"low body fat being more maintainable on AS"

more muscle is maintainable on AS with low body fat.

MS, I assure you, if you were 18% with very little muscle, you'd look far worse than 18% with muscle even though the absolute numbers are different.

I'd like to use an example here, but Ms Wilson would have my nuts in a jar of formaldehyde by morning if I used it. Let's just say that even higher amounts of body fat look better with more muscle under it than less fat with much less muscle.

W6

 

[spatts]

Does Mrs. Wilson participate on the boards?

 

[Cheetarah]

...Let's just say that even higher amounts of body fat look better with more muscle under it than less fat with much less muscle.

W6 [/B]

Yep, I agree. I've noticed the same since being in this sport. I am a perfect example. I was absolutely SHOCKED and dismayed the first time I ever got my bodyfat checked. Cause I had decent abs, the 3 vertical lines, solid everywhere, but yet I was at 22% bodyfat!!! So I was thinking, "how the heck am I THAT fat with the kind of definition I have"?!! And then when I dropped to 19% bodyfat, when I flexed my abs, I had a serratus muscles and a 4 pack showing! At 15% I have a full six pack just barely visible without flexing. Currently, at 16%, I have to flex to show the 6 pack. I'd love to see what I'd look like at 12%. Ah, to dream...

 

[NorwayFitness]

2) What are your contest and off-season BF%

My offseason BF% would be around 18% i guess and I'm at 8% right now 'cause I'm entering my first competition this saturday !
I've been ready for sometimes and I haven't had much problem keeping my BF under 10%. I'm 5'7" and now weigh 136 lb. I'm blessed with a high metabolism I guess because I never go under 1800 cal/day and about 150 g of carbs and not that much cardio

 

[Daisy_Girl]

Re: Re: maintainable body fat %

I'm at 8% right now 'cause I'm entering my first competition this saturday !
I've been ready for sometimes and I haven't had much problem keeping my BF under 10%.

GOOD LUCK THIS SATURDAY! What type of comp?

 

[Nonerz]

Whether or not it is reasonable to maintain 11-12% for 5 months depends on how much you are willing to put up with the hunger and cravings that go along with staying well below your setpoint. It takes discipline and sacrifice.

resonable maybe...healthy???? putting up with hunger and cravings...something that is extremely difficult to do when "Auntie Flow" is visiting. I admire those who have the discipline and sacrifice to do it!

 

[NorwayFitness]

Re: Re: Re: maintainable body fat %

GOOD LUCK THIS SATURDAY! What type of comp?

THANKS !!
It's called Athletic Fitness and is like a figure competition with chins and dips max out and some kind of obstacle course ( sp ? ).
I'm carbloading right now and beginning to get tired of white rice...

NF

 

[bignate73]

resonable maybe...healthy???? putting up with hunger and cravings...something that is extremely difficult to do when "Auntie Flow" is visiting.

auntie flow doesnt tend to visit at that low of bodyfat......

 

[Sassy69]

"Healthy bodyfat level" depends first on what your body can support and second, on what your goals are. If you are a seasonal competitor, you probably need to maintain a lower avg bodyfat because its just as hard on your body to do massive weight swings repeatedly (I can attest to this...). It just gets harder & harder and I think later your body will enact its revenge. So keeping the on-season & off-season difference to around 15 lbs is probably a good approach. If you are NOT a seasonal competitor, then something that is "liveable" (i.e. fits your lifestyle & doesn't make you a constant bitch) shoudl be the goal. The biggest thing to understand is that the pix of competitors you see at show time is absolutely NOT what they look like year round, so dont' set goals like that. Just as you adjust your diet to achieve the cut phase, you should adjust to allow recovery, etc.

I think one of the bigger challenges in BB is AFTER achievign your goal, maintaining it or finding that maintenance point. If you rebound after you do hit your goal, then it seems like you spend the rest of your time trying to get back to that original goal, even though it may not be the appropriate goal anymore.

 

[Nonerz]

Re: Re: Re: Re: maintainable body fat %

THANKS !!
It's called Athletic Fitness and is like a figure competition with chins and dips max out and some kind of obstacle course ( sp ? ).
I'm carbloading right now and beginning to get tired of white rice...

NF

Hey that competition sounds pretty fun! You say you're tired of white rice? Man, I miss my rice...haven't had much lately at all...and I grew up with it as an everyday staple.

 

[Ceebs]

In my experience, leptin cravings from dieting too hard too long are the worst. PMS munchies can be managed by taking extra 5-HTP during the luteal phase, and simply putting down enough food (why do you gals think I eat such ungodly amounts of broccoli?), but when low leptin rears its ugly head, eating something high calorie and high glycemic is literally all I can think about. It's so intense a feeling, I can't even put it into words - it's a survival response. Starts happening when I hit around 14% bodyfat, or have been training really hard without adequete calories. Me no likey.

Good luck with your comp, NorwayFitness.

 

[Nonerz]

Hey Ceebs, seems I keep running into you around this time at night! I recently purchased some 5-HTP and was wondering when the "luteal phase" occurs. Under what circumstances do you take 5-HTP (timing wise).

Broccoli is my friend. I successfully ate 1 1/2 pounds of broccoli in 2 days...not bad for a new broccoli fanatic. I don't go for that much broccoli these days, but I am consistently eating it (at least once a day). It's great to "fill the hole."

Leptin cravings...sounds interesting. I don't know anything about that, but I have been taking a good look at PMS symptom relief including curbing cravings, etcetera.

 

[Ceebs]

Hey Nonerz! We're really night owls, aren't we?

"Luteal phase" is just a fancy way of describing the week before one's period when one typically gets PMS symptoms. During it, the body makes less of a neurotransmitter called serotonin - resulting in cravings and crankiness. (There're other hormonal factors responsible for PMS, but serotonin is chiefly at fault for the "shovel food into your mouth with one hand and give somebody the finger with the other hand" urges.) 5-HTP is the precursor to serotonin, so by supplementing it where you body fails, you get less PMS symptoms... you probably know all that already, I'm just re-hashing it for any lurkers.

I take 150 milligrams on an empty stomach 45 minutes before my first meal every day, and take an additional 100 milligram bump mid-afternoon as far away from meals as possible when I'm PMSing. These doses might be a little high for you if you're just beginning to take it - too much 5-HTP can put you to sleep if you're not used to it - though some folks use it to treat insomnia, so this can be a good thing.

I've also got my (post-menopausal) mother on the 5-HTP train; she takes it for stress management when her job occasionally gets crazy, and has dropped a considerable amount of weight because she's not eating to feed emotions anymore.

 

[woof]

? for Ceebs

Hi Ceebs,
I was wondering if you still experience the "luteal phase cravings" that you described above, if you are on birth control. After much research on this site, I have chosen Allesse and have been doing well on it for several months. I do get cravings, however, I need to actually keep track of WHEN I get them and see if they are cyclical. Thanks.
Woof

 

[Nonerz]

"shovel food into your mouth with one hand and give somebody the finger with the other hand"

hey thanks for the explanation...I didn't know that! Now I can take it at the right times! Say, to help you sleep, when would you want to take it? An hour before bedtime, or still first thing on an empty stomach? I am such the night owl, but I neeeeed to get more sleep so I don't feel so overwhelmed/tired throughout the day.

 

[Ceebs]

Re: ? for Ceebs

Hi Ceebs,
I was wondering if you still experience the "luteal phase cravings" that you described above, if you are on birth control.

Cravings were the least of my problems when I was on hormonal birth control, but yes, I did experience them cyclically. I didn't know about 5-HTP yet at the time, so I wasn't taking it.

You might find it helpful to make up a chart, and every day record your mood, level of cravings, and anything else you think is pertainent on it. After several months, you'll probably see patterns - like, from the 15th-21st of every month, you're very calm and not craving anything, while the 22nd-28th is your luteal phase (assuming you menstruate on the 29th or 30th), et cetera.

You really learn a lot about yourself if you keep notes like this. And it's always been immensely comforting to me to know that if I'm in a bad mood, it's just an elaborate ballroom dance of hormones and neurotransmitters, and it is not because the world is ending.

 

[Ceebs]

Say, to help you sleep, when would you want to take it? An hour before bedtime, or still first thing on an empty stomach?

An hour before bedtime, on as empty a stomach as possible. (Tryptophan is an amino acid, and could compete with other amino's in your stomach for uptake.) It doesn't knock you out like Melatonin - it's subtle, you just feel relaxed and blissful.

Wish I could laugh at the , but I've been guilty of it. It's like that Carl's Jr. commercial - "don't bother me. I'm eating."

 

[Nonerz]

Thanks Ceebs...tried to give you karma, but I gotta "spread it around" more...

 

[woof]

Thanks Ceebs,
I think that I will start just such a log. I have been wanting to do that for a while - it should be interesting.