Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

Machines vs. freeweights

P

patro

New member
Why does it seem so much easier to lift with a machine than with freeweights? There are exercies, like biceps curls that I can do WAY more weight with on the machine.

Or might I just have shitty form with freeweights? With a very experienced lifter, should the two forms of lifting be equally difficul/easy?

PATRO
SWEATING MY ASS OF IN SINGAPORE
 
I have always stayed away from machines as much as I can, as a result I think I'm actually stronger on free weights
 
I have gone a step further away from machines and moved strictly to dumbbells over barbells.. dumbbells are even more "freeweight" because you have to balance each one individually.

I use barbells for preacher curls- and maybe squats or whatever. Not too much else.

:D:D
 
patro,
The weight used in a machine means absolutely nothing compared to free weights. The weight in the machine is not the actual force that you are exerting because of the pulleys, etc. If you have shitty form with freeweights you could probably be doing a lot more weight. In terms of ease of the lift, the free weights should be a bit more difficult simply because you have to use some additional stabilizer muscles during the lift, whereas a machine will force your body into a position where those stabilizer muscles aren't use.

MonStar,
Yea, I'm a big dumbell fan. I also use barbells every other week for military presses (along with bicep curls and squats).

Like most other somewhat advanced lifters, I find machines to be less than effective. However, there are a few machines that I still use every once in a while. For example, the pullovers machine (I like to pre-exhaust the lats before doing pulldowns), the lat pulldown/rowing machine, and maybe some of the ab machines.
 
Obviously if you have to stabilize the weight as you do with free-weights it's going to take a good deal more coordination. In general I prefer the feel of free weights, but I don't believe them superior for building an impressive physique. Your muscles don't have eyes. Resistance is resistance. A *properly* designed machine--many are complete shit--can in some ways be superior to free weight movements, due to fact that it can be adjusted to fit the natural strength curve of a muscle. This was what was so revolutionary about the Nautilus cam system. I still prefer a loaded barbell, though.
 
I have been doing more dumbell, and hammer strength machines to even out my strength differences. it has definatly worked. I will be moving back to more barbell work in a couple months.
 
Real steel over machines boys.Machines do the work of stabilizing for you, thus the small stabilizers don,t get trained.You should all remember the first time you tried a free weight bench press,not like the machine was it!They also lock the motion in a constant plane which may not be bio mechanically correct for everyone.This is a topic that could go on for ever.P.S..cables still require the body to stabilize.
 
I've heard lots of stuff about these "stabilizer muscles", and how much growth do you really think these stabilizers will attribute to the overall growth of for example your delts or your chest or your quads? Do you really think stabilizers attribut to growth? If it did i would say minimally. I believe the growth from free weights comes from how much more strenous the exercise is versus some free weight machines do the straining for you. Some machines are total crap IMO, and some i believe are very useful b/c you could really use the machine and exert the same amount of force and strain as you would w/ the free weights. :alien:
 
All you have to do is look at the majority of people on the machines, then look at the dudes throwing free weights around.

Its all about the freeweights bro.


Machines:smash:
 
Thaibox said:
All you have to do is look at the majority of people on the machines, then look at the dudes throwing free weights around.

Its all about the freeweights bro.


Machines:smash:
Click to expand...
I think machines are about as effective. There are reasons for the disparity in size between the free crowd and machine crowd:

1)Beginners use machines, they are easier to use.

2) Everyone looks at your weights when use use free weights. So strong guys can show off a bit. Beginners or weaker dudes don't like to be seen with 125 lbs on the bench. Lets face it...a lot of big guys at the gym are jerks and will scorn the smaller guys if they compete for the same benchs. I'm not like that but I do wonder about the neophytes using the free bench with about 100 lbs. I'd be embarrassed.:o
 
The 2 biggest people in my gym actually do very little free weights. These guys are friggin huge but they seem so weak. Even on free weights they do sets w/ what i warm up w/. And in all the years at the gym never seen either of them throwing up big weights. Unless they're secretly working out at another gym... what does that tell you?
 
i dont think i should reply to this subject.

i tend to get slightly emotional and agressive.

just a few notes:

riskybizz007 : when someone talks about a "stabilizer muscles" they wont be talking about it in a way that they do their biceps.....we are not trying to gain size on them. they are not there to be flexed. they are there to stabilize.

about the two biggest people in the gym: nobody said you cant reach hypertrophy by using machines.


for the moment i only have one thing to say:

machines have no real crossover into patterns of movment in the real world.
and the strength you gain from machines will only be viable to the machine that you use.
sure they will be able to make you stronger and bigger.....but not the same way free weights will.
 
endpoint said:
for the moment i only have one thing to say:

machines have no real crossover into patterns of movment in the real world.
and the strength you gain from machines will only be viable to the machine that you use.
Click to expand...

And how does squatting down repeatedly with a loaded barbell on your back mirror any pattern of movement in the real world? If a trainee increases his bench press from 100 lbs on a machine to 400 lbs, you can be damn sure if he moves to a barbell he will be able to bench press significantly more weight than when he was lifting 100 lbs on the machine.
 
the key phrase is "pattern of movement" not "repetition".
you have never squated down to pick anything up?
you have never done any physical labor?
how do you go to the toilet?
how do you jump?

all with racks and pullys i guess........
get what i mean?

in the real world our bodys use stabilizers joints etc to complete a movement or task.....we dont have racks pullys wires etc to complete the stabalizing for us.


i hope i have made my self clear now.

okay for part two.

a person starts with:(all guess work)
machine 40lbs
freeweight 30lbs.

s/he works only on a machine and gets the exercise up to 60lbs.
according to you the person will be able to lift around 50lbs on the free weight exercise.

WRONG.

if the person trys the free weight at that weight....feelings will be hurt and so will necks arms and what ever the barbell hits on its way down.

with the bench press for example. if the stabalizers arent strong the bar will not be able to be pushed in a straight line without drifting. have you ever had a bar drift? once it starts it never stops.


BUT.....the person will be able to lift more on the freeweight exercise......but not a great deal more. (significantly less than if they focused on free weight)

yes you can build strength on a machine......but what crossover does it have?
 
How does the machine do the straining for you? I dont understand that......unless you mean it helps stabilise the bar in which case your argument is exactly the same as saying freeweights are harder because they invovle the stabiliser muscles......which you appear to be arguing against. I'm confused!! :confused: :confused:


riskybizz007 said:
If it did i would say minimally. I believe the growth from free weights comes from how much more strenous the exercise is versus some free weight machines do the straining for you. :alien:
Click to expand...
 
now that i re-read that shit, it didn't make too much sense there. Let me say this however, some machines really suck. Some machines i find very useful. What i meant by "taking the normal straining out" is like for example a french press versus the machine's version of this which is IMO not even half as effective. How you would put that in words, i just thought to say it takes a lot of the normal straining out. Like i said, some machines are good and some suck.

I completely disagree w/ what was earlier stated when mentioned about free weights cannot be applied to normal everyday living. I'm not flaming you by saying this, but that sounds like the biggest crock of shit i've ever heard. You can get stronger using both free weights and machines, and to say that the strength you accumulate from machines cannot be used in the "real world" is just plain ignorance b/c strength is strength, and if you have for example a strong bicep or strong shoulders you'll be able to use that stength when needed no matter where it came from.
 
Shit, you guys got it all wrong. Just stick to light weights and wear muscle necklaces from NYC boy!


lol
:fro:
 
KARDE! friekin a bro i read that NYC BOY post, they moved it to the Anabolic Board. That is the most hilarious post i've ever read, ever. Especially when NYC BOY claimed, "i'm one of the biggest guys in my gym" and they show his picture. Dear lord he looked how i looked like 8 years ago when i was like 16 and lifting. Anyways, that thread is hilarious.
 
endpoint-
The articles are fascinating but I'm not sure they are entirely relevant. They address pattern overload--and I'm happy anytime someone slams the Smith Machine--but Chek says this can occur both with "poorly designed" machines AND exercising with improper form. I have no argument here. Many machines are crap. Personally I use Hammer Strength almost exclusively when I use machines as I feel they are excellent. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with the idea that a well designed machine can cause pattern overload or that one should periodize machine use. I'm not a fan of periodization in general. I do tend to use a given exercise for only a brief period as I simply get bored otherwise, but I admit this may have prevented injury. Far more important in the prevention of injury, however, is, I feel, the use of proper form.

okay for part two.

a person starts withall guess work)
machine 40lbs
freeweight 30lbs.

s/he works only on a machine and gets the exercise up to 60lbs.
according to you the person will be able to lift around 50lbs on the free weight exercise.

WRONG.
Click to expand...

I never said a person could go immediately from a machine to a free weight exercise and have a set proportional increase in the weight he uses. Motor-learning must first occur. But within a few weeks to months the gains in strength made on a machine will have largely carried over. I myself have experienced this.
Finally, I'll give you an article to read. I'm sure there is much with which you may disagree but read it and try to be open-minded:

http://www.cyberpump.com/features/intensity/baye006.html

Anyway, each person has the right to his own opinion. Free weights vs. machines has been a subject of debate for a long time and will continue, in all liklihood, to be so in perpetuity. We're all lifters anyway, so lets just relax.
 
okay im agreeing to disagree.

the chek articles werent put there to back me up.

they were just anti machine articles.


Im in two minds about that article.(the cyberpump one)
there are many things that i disagree with. even non related machine statements.......like there is no such thing as speed strength. my word.


i guess me hating machines has a lot to do with me loving compound movements, and the "sports" of which i am involved with

okay agree to disagree.
 
ill repeat myself again.

you can reach hypertrophy from working on a machine...
you can gain strength from working on a machine (depends what you call strength)
 
Back to the issue

OK so does anybody else experience considerable more difficulty in lifting weight with freeweights than with machines, effectiveness aside?

So this is mostly attributed to the stability the machine gives you? But how could that 'increase' your 'strength', so to speak? (I doubt not using stabilizer muscles could make it THAT much easier).

-PATRO
 
Not having to balance the weights IS, I think, the main reason that machine exercises tend to be easier. Another is that many free weight exercises do not match the natural strength curve of a muscle. A well designed machine, on the other hand, should have a variable degree of the resistance so when you are strongest the weight is heaviest, and where your muscles are naturally weakest the wieght is lightest. This, IMO, is one of the advantages machines have to offer. If the reason for your post is that you are trying to switch over, a good way I've found is to do your warm-up sets using free weights and the final work set on the machine. This way you can maintain your strength as you gradually become better with the free weight version of the exercise. After a few weeks, start doing your final set using free weights as well.
 
Well I see we have all been busy since I was here last.Sounds like some of our members could use a little time learning about muscles.They will how ever understand the difference between internal and external rotators real soon, when they tear one!.I agree some machines are good and some are junk.Use both properly and you can achieve great results.
 
i have never seen anyone receive a compliment on their stabilizer muscles. i like machines because they focus on the exact part that i want to work and they ensure that i always use proper form. i use dumbells and shit for exercises there are no machines for but most of my exercises are with machines. people like to talk shit cause they think it makes them tougher to use free weights but not many people around here can talk shit to me about it cause i gots me bigger muscles than they do.
 
You will definitely gain more size faster by making your workout "freeweight oriented". Some machines have pulleys and gears that can take off some poundage and do all of the stabilization for you. There is no cheating with freeweights. The only thing you need to be careful of is momentum. Do weight you can control on both the concentric and eccentric movements. Just compare bench press with a Smith machine vs. bench press on a standard bench with plates, that's just one example.
 
Last edited:
Most people have missed the point on the crucial difference between machines and free weights, and that is multi-joint vs single joint exercises.

Most growth will be achieved via use of multi jiunt compound exercises..............that is a given, Show me then a machine which incorporates multiple joints in the movement.

The biggest difference between machines and free weights is best realised by the natural trainee. If you are natural, good luck trying to put any significant mass on using machines......it won't happen unless you are a genetic freak. When i hear people say 'yeah, but there's guys at my gym who are massive and they mainly use machines', that's bullshit, their growth has much more to do with Steroids than it does with the machines they are using.

The difference between machines and free weights is amplified when applied to the natural trainee, which gives the most significant evidence that free weights are far more beneficial than machines........in all aspects of training.
 
MoneyBags said:
i like machines because they focus on the exact part that i want to work and they ensure that i always use proper form. i use dumbells and shit for exercises there are no machines for but most of my exercises are with machines.
Click to expand...

conversely, i prefer freeweights. first of all, i have found that many of the machines aren't really made with the womans frame in mind (ie. calf raise mach.--the shoulder harness is pretty wide...made for guys) and they don't allow me to move in my natural range of motion. instead, i feel as though i am forced to do an awkward movement that limits my ability to push more weight...

make sense??

on the other hand, i don't throw out machines all together--i just prefer freeweights. from what i've read/experienced, they help with symmetry and you get more bang for your buck with lighter weight...maybe that's why you like the machines more???
 
vinylgroover said:
Most people have missed the point on the crucial difference between machines and free weights, and that is multi-joint vs single joint exercises.

Most growth will be achieved via use of multi jiunt compound exercises..............that is a given, Show me then a machine which incorporates multiple joints in the movement.

The biggest difference between machines and free weights is best realised by the natural trainee. If you are natural, good luck trying to put any significant mass on using machines......it won't happen unless you are a genetic freak. When i hear people say 'yeah, but there's guys at my gym who are massive and they mainly use machines', that's bullshit, their growth has much more to do with Steroids than it does with the machines they are using.

The difference between machines and free weights is amplified when applied to the natural trainee, which gives the most significant evidence that free weights are far more beneficial than machines........in all aspects of training.
Click to expand...


bingo...
 
if machines are so much better, since they reduce injuries and supposedly work just as well as free weights, why do all professional sport teams and bodybuilder, powerlifters, and even strongmen use freeweights?????
 
Machines do not stress the muscle as well as free weights in most cases. Machines isolate better and therefore are important for a bodybuilder, but if you want to build mass, and for most everything else free weights are better. Besides only pussies use a lot of machines :rolleyes:
 
it's all about mixing it up. as long as you keep your training centered around the core freeweights lifts, you should follow up with a mix of isolation exercises done with free weights, hammer strength, and machines. obviously a machine overhead press isn't going to hit as much as overhead db presses, but it will keep your body from getting used to the same free weights routine after a while. just another way to induce a different kind of stress on your muscles.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

SteveMobsterG
Machine only training
Replies
14
Views
3K
Luigi167
L
Richard Brown
Napsgear Debating Free Weights vs. Machines (Most Lifters Don`t Want to Hear This) #19 | 2Newfies and a Joint
Replies
8
Views
153
ROIDDERS
ROIDDERS
Richard Brown
Napsgear Debating Free Weights vs. Machines (Most Lifters Don`t Want to Hear This) #19 | 2Newfies and a Joint
Replies
7
Views
128
Ulter
Ulter
abolone
Approved Log Abolones Rebuild Log - Testosterone, Primobolan, HGH, Insulin
2 3 4
Replies
312
Views
35K
25homes
25homes
GetToDaChoppa!
Approved Log Pre-Gear Training Log, Cardarine then Testosterone
2
Replies
169
Views
20K
Noah Wixx
Noah Wixx
Top Bottom