Long vs 2 Short Cycle's and effect on HPTA?

[rudy76]

Looking for some info here / future consideration.

Would more harm be done to the HPTA if two cycles of 10 weeks were done in a year or if one 20 week cycle was done in a year.

Also what other risk's are associated with longer cycles as compared to multiple short cycles.

Both would include full PCT.
1 month PCT for short cycle including HCG start at end of cycle
2 month PCT for long cycle including HCG starting after 10 weeks

 

[access]

This is an interesting question as I see some guys leaning towards more longer cycles lately with the assumption that this in fact might be easier on recovery longer term. I think this is some merit to this thinking if your a "regular" so to speak. If your running frequent cycles over several years then maybe a single longer cycle each year might be of benefit. Ultimately that benefit is possibly minor but still.

Inevtibaly your going to be shut down either way and a lot of your recovery depends on how you manage your PCT to ensure it's effectiveness along with the compounds used in tandem with diet and supps.

For me I am thinking that I will run longer cycles now each year. They have tended to creep longer anyway, going from 10 to 12 to 14 to 16 etc. I enjoy being on lets face it. If my health is not going to be effected by running a longer cycle then I might as well do it.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Of course a longer cycle is more suppressive.

 

[access]

Of course a longer cycle is more suppressive.

But don't you think that can be managed somewhat by HCG etc while on Nelson?

 

[glover]

Shorter cycles are much better for me. I like 6 weeks. For one, after 6 weeks I get little additional benefit. I have tried 12 weeks vs 6 weeks and the longer gave no better results and suppression was much more difficult to overcome.

 

[access]

Shorter cycles are much better for me. I like 6 weeks. For one, after 6 weeks I get little additional benefit. I have tried 12 weeks vs 6 weeks and the longer gave no better results and suppression was much more difficult to overcome.

I think William Llewellyn was in favor of these types of shorter cycles.

 

[Nelson Montana]

But don't you think that can be managed somewhat by HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - etc while on Nelson?

Hc G does nothing to prevent suppression. If anything, it increases it.

 

[rudy76]

Is there anyone who has experienced a 20 month cycle that can tell us if it was harder to recover.

The reason I ask is that my next cycle will be test and eq but since eq is recommended to be run at least 15 weeks I thought I would try 20 to make sure I see the full benefits - and then obviously I will see the down side as well when I am shut down.

But, is that extra shutdown so much worse??

 

[chris69]

Is there anyone who has experienced a 20 month cycle that can tell us if it was harder to recover.

The reason I ask is that my next cycle will be test and Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - but since Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - is recommended to be run at least 15 weeks I thought I would try 20 to make sure I see the full benefits - and then obviously I will see the down side as well when I am shut down.

But, is that extra shutdown so much worse??

This is is a good thread ! i'll be happy to see the different experiences from others on this ! (bout time we get a real post)

 

[jumpmaster82]

i like longer cycles, yea its more suppressive. but with good pct yu can control that.

 

[smtimelevi]

Shorter cycles are much better for me. I like 6 weeks. For one, after 6 weeks I get little additional benefit. I have tried 12 weeks vs 6 weeks and the longer gave no better results and suppression was much more difficult to overcome.

6 weeks what are you using? I think length of cycle is dependant on what you are using. orals, prop esters, water based. More short cycles would be sensible. But if you are mixing with oil based or using only oil based fewer longer cycles makes more sense. I think short cycles with fast acting compounds are less suppressive from personal experience. Longer use with oil based compounds are more suppressive imo, but the gains are kept much longer. Im not sure where frontloading falls into all of this with suppression,but I would love to know.

 

[healthfrk]

im interested in this as well. my next cycle im planning is going to be shorter to see if i recover better than when coming off a longer cycle. i concider a longer cycle to begin at 10 weeks just for the record. i would be interested if anyone has ran different length cycles with the same AAS and saw a diference in their recovery.

nelson ive read some threads where you talked about shorter cycles and if i remembered correctly you favored them. (correct me if im wrong). pendng on what AAS you use obviosly effects shut down but would it just come down to how god ur PCT is or how wellit works for you?

 

[BigBastard]

I think 6 weeks is absolute minimum. I can feel the gear start working after about 2-3 weeks, even with shortacting gear.

 

[access]

Hc G does nothing to prevent suppression. If anything, it increases it.

And how does it do this Nelson unless your misusing it? HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - only mimics natural lh - leutenizing hormone - to allow the testes to come out of atrophy since using AAS.

 

[Nelson Montana]

And how does it do this Nelson unless your misusing it? HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - only mimics natural lh - leutenizing hormone - - leutenizing hormone - to allow the testes to come out of atrophy since using anabolic androgenic steroids.

Simple biochemistry. Hc G Is best as a kick start to get over the hump after being suppressed. It is not a cure. You should know, that whenever the body depends on an exogenous source to do anything, that process will be hindered when it has to perform the task without the aid of that exogenous source. To think otherwise is denial.

 

[rudy76]

Any of you more experienced bros notice a big diff from a 10 weeker to a 20 weeker in terms of recovery.

 

[halfcenturian]

My experience is that you get better results from longer cylcles. Duh !!!
Not 6 months. But 3. I run them 3 months ON, 3 months OFF. The rub it that PCT takes longer. But that's how this steroid thing works boys.

One of the very few benefits of being older, is the benefit of HRT...No PCT!
You never have to worry about your frickin' HPTA, or getting the Heebie Jeebies, or tits, or any of that shit. HOWEVER, I am a TEST / HCG junkie for the rest of my life. At 51, I don't mind.

 

[access]

Simple biochemistry. Hc G Is best as a kick start to get over the hump after being suppressed. It is not a cure. You should know, that whenever the body depends on an exogenous source to do anything, that process will be hindered when it has to perform the task without the aid of that exogenous source. To think otherwise is denial.

I agree with your points here but you had said that it was in itself suppresive. I don't see this unless you overdose with it or use for extended periods of time.

Also we are not looking for a cure but a "kickstart" when we commence HCG. The HCG by mimicking LH is allowing the testes to come out of atrophy and produce endogenous test. I understand this is far from restarting the whole HPTA process but that's not what we are looking for when using HCG on cycle. That is left for PCT.

Just my thoughts here Nelson and welcome your input greatly.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I agree with your points here but you had said that it was in itself suppresive. I don't see this unless you overdose with it or use for extended periods of time.

Also we are not looking for a cure but a "kickstart" when we commence HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - . The HCG by mimicking lh - leutenizing hormone - is allowing the testes to come out of atrophy and produce endogenous test. I understand this is far from restarting the whole hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - process but that's not what we are looking for when using HCG on cycle. That is left for PCT - post cycle therapy - .

Just my thoughts here Nelson and welcome your input greatly.

The body builds up a tolerance to Hc G pretty quickly. If it didn't, we'd all just stay on Hc G and have higher T levels. (There are those who actually think this a good idea but I do not). You're right in that the "purpose" of Hc G is specific and that over extending its use will make the HP.TA dependent instead of self reliant.

 

[xrsist]

i would never run a 20 week cycle, thats a long time to be supressed. why run a 20 week cycle when you can run a 10-12 weeker and get the same results??

 

[Tatyana]

I have been reading Bottomline Bodybuilding by Nelson, and from some of the things he has been elaborating on in his book about steroids and steroid cycles, he is being remarkably diplomatic in this one.

The whole thing with the body and homeostasis, there are quite a few theories floating around about the body having 'set points'.

For example, there is a huge amount of information about set points for bodyweight. Our body will try to return to a set weight it is used to.

This is one of the biggest issues with dieting, as so many people, in particular overweight women will diet for ages to drop their weight, but the diet is a temporary solution, not a way of eating for life.

When they come off the diet, the body wants to return to the previous set point.

It is thought that unless a lower weight is maintained for at least a year, this is pretty much inevitable.

Maintaining muscle, as it is even more metabollically demanding, is even more difficult to maintain IMHO.

Nelson has some very interesting, and in my opinion, really valid points for running much shorter cycles in his book.

I think the issue is not what you gain on a cycle, or how much more you will be suppressed, as it is quite obvious the longer you are on the more you will gain (if diet and training are good), and your body will be less used to producing its own testosterone, so you will be more suppressed.

The issue is what are you going to KEEP after you come off.

It is also harder to maintain your gains the longer you have been suppressed.

Just like dieting to STRIP the fat, you have to trick your body into lower body fat, you also have to trick your body into putting on muscle and keeping it.

 

[glover]

6 weeks what are you using? I think length of cycle is dependant on what you are using. orals, testosterone propionate esters, water based. More short cycles would be sensible. But if you are mixing with oil based or using only oil based fewer longer cycles makes more sense. I think short cycles with fast acting compounds are less suppressive from personal experience. Longer use with oil based compounds are more suppressive imo, but the gains are kept much longer. Im not sure where frontloading falls into all of this with suppression,but I would love to know.

Yes, I use only testosterone propionate, NPP - Nandrolone PhenylPropionate - , trenbolone, Anavar - oxandrolone - , Winstrol - stanozolol, My goal is no bloat and minimal gains and quick recovery, I never know when and if I will do another cycle. I seek to be unnoticed by while I add muscle. The 12 week cycle I did was with the above and benefits vs gains was not adequate.

I know what works for me but I really believe you must try all to see what works best for you.

 

[makaveli25]

i have always gone with longer cycles.. first cycle was 14 weeks second 12 3rd 16 and finally i ran one for 25 weeks!! i always had great gains with the longer cycles.. i also think the gains are easier to keep because its more of a slow and steady process.. i think your body gets a chance to hold on to the muscle better.. 14 and 16 week cycles were the best.. i recovered nicley with clomid and nolvadex.. anything over that is a bad idea.. if you run 20 week cycle its gonna take you that long to recover.. keep them under 16 weeks

 

[all the whey]

Shorter cycles are much better for me. I like 6 weeks. For one, after 6 weeks I get little additional benefit. I have tried 12 weeks vs 6 weeks and the longer gave no better results and suppression was much more difficult to overcome.

Yes!

I have only done 6 week prop the last few yrs.


I don't see going much longer again.

 

[xxsuprman22xx]

Ok heres a thought to this thread.....if you keep a test base and switch say Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - to a short esteres trenbolone at 10 weeks and run that for the next 10 weeks....i think it sounds like a setup for maximum gains but id like to hear the thoughts of some of the vets or someone in experience to a cycle of this nature

 

[rudy76]

Bump this thread for more info....

Cycle 2 is coming for me in the spring.....

1-18 test e 500mg ew
1-16 e.q. 600mg ew
1-5 t.bol 80mg ed