Long training sessions and catabolism

[superturkey]

Im reading more and more on people doing 3 hour sessions at the gym for a cutting cycle, what methods do you guys use to prevent catabolism, as the standard time is usually 45-60 mins before becoming too catabolic. Or is this time just for a natural trainer?


Sent from the turkey himself!

 

[auslifter90]

I've always trained longer during cuts on gear but 3hr seems excessive. Try training for 90 minutes and then go off and do some cardio later/earlier on in the day for 30-60 minutes.
If you need to train for 3 hours to lose weight I have to question your diet

 

[dylangemelli]

my training is 90 minutes of cardio and 90 minutes of lifting... 6 days a week and then one day a week is just 90 minutes of cardio... but then again, im a little different than most...

 

[superturkey]

my training is 90 minutes of cardio and 90 minutes of lifting... 6 days a week and then one day a week is just 90 minutes of cardio... but then again, im a little different than most...

Iv read your diet before and you mention having a protein bar between the weights and cardio, is this all you find you need to prevent catabolism, and at what point would know if you were over-training?

 

[dylangemelli]

Iv read your diet before and you mention having a protein bar between the weights and cardio, is this all you find you need to prevent catabolism, and at what point would know if you were over-training?

for me, thats what i've found to work... ive been doing it for quite some time and it has worked well so i continue with that... as far as overtraining... if you are not seeing any gains and you are continuously sore and tired and feeling overworked, then you know you are overtraining... when the gains completely stop and you start to regress, you may be overtraining as well... trust me, you will know if you are...

 

[ALIN]

Im reading more and more on people doing 3 hour sessions at the gym for a cutting cycle, what methods do you guys use to prevent catabolism, as the standard time is usually 45-60 mins before becoming too catabolic. Or is this time just for a natural trainer?


Sent from the turkey himself!

IMO I think 3 hours in the gym is too much for almost anyone if your training intense enough.

 

[dylangemelli]

IMO I think 3 hours in the gym is too much for almost anyone if your training intense enough.

im going to have to strongly disagree with that unless your insinuating that somehow i don't train intensely and i would be willing to bet you that you will have a hell of a time finding anyone that trains nearly as hard as i do...

 

[blue_steel74]

im going to have to strongly disagree with that unless your insinuating that somehow i don't train intensely and i would be willing to bet you that you will have a hell of a time finding anyone that trains nearly as hard as i do...

Not trying to boast Dylan, just being competitive, but i bet you i match your intensity with the weights. I train balls out on everything. Now as far as cardio, prolly not bc i only do cardio wen dieting

 

[blue_steel74]

As far as a reply to the OP, i always try to make my workouts no more than an hour unless doin cardio. And if youre gonna be in there longer than that i recommend having a meal with you. Bc Dylans theory on protein bars is good bc you have to replenish the glycogen stores after so long of training.

I always say...theres no such thing as overtraining, just undereating...

And yes, i stole that

 

[Zinergy]

Everyone's different, find what works for you.

I do 2.5-3hrs of weights, anything less and I can tell I'm not gaining as well.

While cutting I don't have the energy or motivation to go more than 2hrs.

 

[dylangemelli]

Not trying to boast Dylan, just being competitive, but i bet you i match your intensity with the weights. I train balls out on everything. Now as far as cardio, prolly not bc i only do cardio wen dieting

my point is that for 3 hours, i tend to believe there are not many people that could keep up with the pace i do for that amount of time... half the time, maybe but i do this every day of the week all in one rip... so for someone to say that 3 hours in the gym means there is not enough intensity... really??? i have to disagree with that...

 

[blue_steel74]

my point is that for 3 hours, i tend to believe there are not many people that could keep up with the pace i do for that amount of time... half the time, maybe but i do this every day of the week all in one rip... so for someone to say that 3 hours in the gym means there is not enough intensity... really??? i have to disagree with that...

Yea i can feel you on that. I was just tryin to mess with you a lil bit. But if im ever in Hawaii or youre in Arkansas look me up and lets train together

 

[dylangemelli]

Yea i can feel you on that. I was just tryin to mess with you
a lil bit. But if im ever in Hawaii or youre in Arkansas look me up and lets train together

loll its all good man

 

[AeRoXx]

Isn't that much cardio muscle wasting Dylan not trying to argue just asking ?

 

[strentrainin]

3 hours a lot for anyone. Some of you are just animals when it comes to time spent killing it. It's works for each individual. I'm sure most people on here think they train hard to meet their certain goals.. no one one here will say oh I do all his research, posting pics, supplementing eating clean ,etc and say they don't train hard. I personally do 30min to an hour of fasted cardio 3 times a week and 5-6 days of weights 45-90min in the afternoons when cutting. and far less cardio and about the same on weights when trying to pack on the lbs and it's pleny for me there are times when I don't go that long on the weights bc I move from lift to lift quickly keeping heart rate high and I don't ever want to feel like I"m over working muscle groups, it counteracts growth IMO or at least with my metabolism i feel it's not necessary. If i'm going to to be in there long I have a shake with me to kill right after or during. then eat my post work out meal/dinner....Everyone is different.

 

[dylangemelli]

Isn't that much cardio muscle wasting Dylan not trying to argue just asking ?

your always going to find people that say that it is however i think that my gains on my cycles will show you that muscle wasting is the last thing that is going on here... im up 12 pounds on my current cycle and body fat is still in the 6% range... last cycle i gained 15 lbs. and dropped bodyfat from 7% to 6.2% so the numbers don't lie here... i have my methods though man and its a very difficult thing to achieve...

 

[RickRock13]

Its all about finding what works for you. I used to do 90 minute weight sessions, and recently switched to only 3 45 minute sessions per week. I'm doing DC training and that type of training and volume is done and endorsed by some of the biggest bodybuilders which it helped to create. I started the same time as my cycle and I also have the quickest weight gain I've made on cycle yet....10 lbs in 14 days

Sometimes less is more, as lifting or training too much can cut into your growth and recovery.

 

[blue_steel74]

your always going to find people that say that it is however i think that my gains on my cycles will show you that muscle wasting is the last thing that is going on here... im up 12 pounds on my current cycle and body fat is still in the 6% range... last cycle i gained 15 lbs. and dropped bodyfat from 7% to 6.2% so the numbers don't lie here... i have my methods though man and its a very difficult thing to achieve...

Exactly, i have a friend who is 5'6", 210 and under 10% and he does alot of 3-5 rep range on everything. But he has great striations and a dense physique. Alot of ppl will argue that too low of a rep range wont help you cut, but hes won the overall at our state show and he placed 2nd last year. So it really can be different for different ppl

 

[ceo]

Its all about finding what works for you. I used to do 90 minute weight sessions, and recently switched to only 3 45 minute sessions per week. I'm doing DC training and that type of training and volume is done and endorsed by some of the biggest bodybuilders which it helped to create. I started the same time as my cycle and I also have the quickest weight gain I've made on cycle yet....10 lbs in 14 days

Sometimes less is more, as lifting or training too much can cut into your growth and recovery.

agree.

"You can train hard or you can train long, but you can't do both." -Mike Mentzer

Personally 3 hours in the gym is about 1:45 - 2 hours too long. I'm usually in and out in 1:15 and that includes 10 minutes or so of warming up and 10-15 minutes of so of stretching afterwards.

Also, Dylan, can you define "intensity" as you are describing it?

 

[dylangemelli]

agree.

"You can train hard or you can train long, but you can't do both." -Mike Mentzer

Personally 3 hours in the gym is about 1:45 - 2 hours too long. I'm usually in and out in 1:15 and that includes 10 minutes or so of warming up and 10-15 minutes of so of stretching afterwards.

Also, Dylan, can you define "intensity" as you are describing it?

take a look at my log and read one workout and you can see my kind of intensity...

 

[ceo]

that's not what I asked though.

 

[RADAR]

that's not what I asked though.

lol!

 

[Voijn]

Yes catabolic hormones begin to work around 1hour of training. By using i think the effects of catabolic hormones arent that effetive as if you where not ON, actually synthetic-hormones downregulate catablic ones when you are on, also your protein synthetics is way increased and 24/7 meaning you are able to recover from longer and harder workout sessions.

A steroid program is mainly a high split 3-4-5 because they use the downregulation of catabolic hormones and push more sets/exercises into a single session of 1-2muscles "some times retarded 5exercises for biceps and 1-2for legs <----- sorry but fuck that shit,newbs... had to say it"

Im doing a Stripped down hypertrophy program, wich is a fullbody program done in 1hour if possible.
looks like:

monday:
A1 Benchpress 4x10
A2 One arm db rows 4x10
Squat 4x10
-------
A1 Dips 5x5
A2 Pullups 5x5
Back extensions 5x5

I fire of a set of benchpress followed by a short pause and then hit the one arm row, then a longer pause and go back to benchpress a do 4 of these sets. Then squat strait sets due to the heavyness and compoud movement of Sqaut

same goes for dips and pullups. Each training day i switch set-rep range 5x5 - 4x10

Some american bodybuilders might go balistic saying im only doing 1 direct exercise for chest instead of doing 10sets -_-

at least i hit my chest 5days a week hard, all out on one exercise instead of doing so many that i actually lose strength under my "training of chest" wich does course more catabolisme then direct hypertrophy or infliction on the CNS..

This is my new aproach to training, not burning out the CNS also getting full profit of not going into catabolistic state by doing 2 hours.

some hit their chest 52times a year :/ i hit mine around 200

 

[ceo]

voijn, you train that way 5 days a week?

Normally HST or any full body or 2 way split is a 3 day a week program (or even 2 days a week for true hardgainers). Because you are usually doing a lot less volume (1-2 working sets), and much more intensity (intensity being defined as the percentage of your maximum lift that you are training with. Most people confuse "intensity" with "intensiveness", which is the subjective level of effort put forth). In other words you are lifting so much Heavy Ass Weight, that you couldn't possibly do 4 sets of 10 reps with it. And if you can then it's not heavy enough to be "high intensity".

How long have you been training that way? How often do you de-load, and for how long?

 

[tronicus]

idk wtf ur routines are but layne nortons PHAT takes me 45min-1hr at the most. I usually do 15-30sec between sets, 30min cardio... how the fuck are u guys in there for 3+ hours

 

[Nelson Montana]

10 caps of GEAR before and 10 caps after each session.

 

[Proppar]

Iv read your diet before and you mention having a protein bar between the weights and cardio, is this all you find you need to prevent catabolism, and at what point would know if you were over-training?

No such thing as over training just under eating

 

[ceo]

No such thing as over training just under eating

so I can train 7 days a week twice a day for 3 hours each session?

cool story bro.

 

[Evan Tipps]

I've trained 40+ days straight. Each session around 2 hours. Lol

 

[Proppar]

so I can train 7 days a week twice a day for 3 hours each session?

cool story bro.

Yeh bro,


u mad?

 

[dylangemelli]

i know this, everyone's body responds differently to different ways of training... ive been training people for a fucking decade, so i have a grasp on this... my job is to find what accomodates each individuals needs and for some, less is more... but to anyone questioning a 2.5 to 3 hour workout... look at my results and then run your mouth... I do 1.5 hours of cardio a day and between lifting and ab workout, its another 1.5 hours... i gain an average of 10-15 lbs. on my cycles and still cut body fat... so while statistically, those workouts may seem long or too much, for me, its most definitely not and it works, and results dont fucking lie... and yes, i do hard fucking cardio... i lift hard... i lift on the hypertrophy level of training... 80% of my max, 8-10 reps, 4 sets each... minimal breaks in between sets... muscular endurance is gained... strength is gained and most importantly, muscle size is gained... so that works for me... if it doesn't work for you, great... we all respond differently... the biggest battle is finding the right diet, the right workout, etc... that OUR body responds too... once you find it, you perfect it, and you constantly look for small improvements and you make them accordingly...

 

[thelastmrbigg15]

i agree dylan i do 45min.-60min. of cardio and workout arround 1-1.5 hours depending on mood and carb intake NATURALLY so on the goods i can def. see blasting for 3-4 hours

 

[ceo]

I've trained 40+ days straight. Each session around 2 hours. Lol

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying that it's not optimal by any means. Even enhanced. Carry on though.

 

[ceo]

Yeh bro,


u mad?

no, but you jelly. Yeh u r.

 

[ceo]

i know this, everyone's body responds differently to different ways of training... ive been training people for a fucking decade, so i have a grasp on this... my job is to find what accomodates each individuals needs and for some, less is more... but to anyone questioning a 2.5 to 3 hour workout... look at my results and then run your mouth... I do 1.5 hours of cardio a day and between lifting and ab workout, its another 1.5 hours... i gain an average of 10-15 lbs. on my cycles and still cut body fat... so while statistically, those workouts may seem long or too much, for me, its most definitely not and it works, and results dont fucking lie... and yes, i do hard fucking cardio... i lift hard... i lift on the hypertrophy level of training... 80% of my max, 8-10 reps, 4 sets each... minimal breaks in between sets... muscular endurance is gained... strength is gained and most importantly, muscle size is gained... so that works for me... if it doesn't work for you, great... we all respond differently... the biggest battle is finding the right diet, the right workout, etc... that OUR body responds too... once you find it, you perfect it, and you constantly look for small improvements and you make them accordingly...

Now we know who mad!!

Dylan, easy bro. Congrats on being lean. If I worked out that long and did that much cardio that many days a week I'd be 6% too.

Not everyone has the same goals though. Your goals are obviously to be a smaller and very lean athlete/bodybuilder. You have accomplished that. I bet if you trained differently - radically differently - that you could gain 10-15 lbs and stay lean while not on cycle. But that doesn't seem to be your goal and you are doing what works for you to accomplish the goals you have and you are successful. I'm not knocking that. It's just not for everyone and I'll say it again that long 3 hour training sessions, 5 days a week or more are not optimal for most lifters, enhanced or not.

 

[thelastmrbigg15]

i also agree with ceo on that one ppl respond differently i'm no were near 6% i just get lost in my workouts my mind goes to a different place and time slips away... the body will adapt to the way your working out and plateu progress u can eithor raise the intensity or change the routine

 

[dylangemelli]

Now we know who mad!!

Dylan, easy bro. Congrats on being lean. If I worked out that long and did that much cardio that many days a week I'd be 6% too.

Not everyone has the same goals though. Your goals are obviously to be a smaller and very lean athlete/bodybuilder. You have accomplished that. I bet if you trained differently - radically differently - that you could gain 10-15 lbs and stay lean while not on cycle. But that doesn't seem to be your goal and you are doing what works for you to accomplish the goals you have and you are successful. I'm not knocking that. It's just not for everyone and I'll say it again that long 3 hour training sessions, 5 days a week or more are not optimal for most lifters, enhanced or not.

you know i aint mad at cha! =) im a triathlete, so of course my sessions are much different and my goals are very different... plus, i have been a fashion model for over 6 years so my entire mentality with weight gain is completely fucked as far as personal... as happy as i am with the size i have put on, i still have mental battles because of how i have been trained mentally for so long... i can teach and train others to perfection, but i have everyday battles with myself... that's just the way it is... but for my goals and for what i do, im happy with how everything is going... =) i always appreciate your insight though ceo, you know that!

 

[Nelson Montana]

If you're young and strong and love doing it and are making gains, go for it.

 

[auslifter90]

Lol I've seen your logs Dylan I think your energy systems would be far far more efficient and resilient than just about everyone in here so I can see how 3 hours works for you...

 

[ceo]

If you're young and strong and love doing it and are making gains, go for it.

yep. bottom line is if what you are doing is working, by all means keep doing it.

Unfortunately, most like to "switch it up" just as soon as they find something that starts working.