LIQUIDEX killing my gains.....................

[Themachine01]

I am not prone to gyno and like to keep my cycles light enough that gyno isnt an issue. Well, I decided to give l-dex a whirl with my dbol/sus bulker, mainly to keep the water weight down. I ran the dbol for the 1st 4 weeks and believe me, the gains are not like they should be, or what Im used to anyway. I even went with 35mg/day rather then 25mg. Let me hear some thoughts on this.

 

[Zyglamail]

gains in what respect? Your not using weight as a basis for gains are you?

 

[Themachine01]

no zyg, the weight I was expecting to be down, from not holding as much water, but I can still notice some water being held. Im mainly talking about strength gains.

 

[Zyglamail]

no zyg, the weight I was expecting to be down, from not holding as much water, but I can still notice some water being held. Im mainly talking about strength gains.

While the liquidex may very well be having some effect these kinds of things are so hard to quantify. Its hardly realistic to do 3-4 cycles in a year and expect the same gains on the last as you had on the first. SImply too many variables for one and the fact you have(or should have) more mass now than on your first cycle means you are even farther from your normal homeostatic state making returns from training/diet/AAS harder to come by.

 

[Themachine01]

Im thinking that the lack of estrogen is actually hurting me. you agree?

 

[Deleted member 33117]

While the liquidex may very well be having some effect these kinds of things are so hard to quantify. Its hardly realistic to do 3-4 cycles in a year and expect the same gains on the last as you had on the first. SImply too many variables for one and the fact you have(or should have) more mass now than on your first cycle means you are even farther from your normal homeostatic state making returns from training/diet/AAS harder to come by.

Good points. Also bear in mind that from test and d-bol alot of your gains are water weight. So perhaps you are only seeing the real gains from the drugs, rather than the inflated gains from the water weight you have experienced in the past. As for strength, one does not always gain alot of strength on a cycle. Your routine, more than anything, will dictate what type of strength gains you achieve while on a cycle.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Anti-e's in general will hinder gains.

Personally, I would never touch liquidex.

 

[Zyglamail]

Im thinking that the lack of estrogen is actually hurting me. you agree?

Lack of estrogen is detrimental but I have yet to see bloodwork from anyone on a cycle using any 3rd gen anti-e that does not still have elevated estrogen levels.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Anti-e's in general will hinder gains.

Personally, I would never touch liquidex.

I would agree that they can slightly reduce gains, however I've experienced extrememly rapid gains while on arimidex and very recently with letrozole as well.

 

[Syphonfilter]

Yeah but he says he's not experiencing the same strength gains....this can probably be attributed to not having the same water bloat as normal by the test/dbol with the addition of the ldex. Much of the strength comes from the extra water weight....not holding water/supporting the muscles......less strength.

 

[magman1]

the lack of estrogen i hear can slightly hinder gains, but personally i would rather not balloon up, only knowing i will be popped in 10 weeks...but again, 25mg of dbol now wont give the same results as 25mg of dbol when u were 20lbs lighter

 

[DANABOLIC55]

I'm running L-dex now with my Sust Winny cylce. 1st 3 days of front load after shot 2 I had already gained 10lbs. I upped the l-dex to .5 instead of .25 and went straight back down. I knew it was water so the l-dex helped. However, I'm still steadliy gaining strength with about 1 lb weight gain every 4 days. I know it's primarily water but I'd rather see truth instead of H2O. I'd say it pshycological. play with it...after all it is "research".

peace!

 

[Slyder190]

Good points. Also bear in mind that from test and d-bol alot of your gains are water weight. So perhaps you are only seeing the real gains from the drugs, rather than the inflated gains from the water weight you have experienced in the past. As for strength, one does not always gain alot of strength on a cycle. Your routine, more than anything, will dictate what type of strength gains you achieve while on a cycle.

Kinda what I was thinkin.

And - Nice to see you 'round some more Zyg.

 

[jubei]

Cut down on the l-dex. Dbol + Anastrazole is known as cheap mans var. Base your gains as if you were on var instead of dbol.

 

[lurs]

isn`t liquidex the same as arimidex??

 

[liftsiron]

While the liquidex may very well be having some effect these kinds of things are so hard to quantify. Its hardly realistic to do 3-4 cycles in a year and expect the same gains on the last as you had on the first. SImply too many variables for one and the fact you have(or should have) more mass now than on your first cycle means you are even farther from your normal homeostatic state making returns from training/diet/AAS harder to come by.

Very ,very good reply, and maybe a reduction in the l-dex would help. With test I run .5mg l-dex(arimidex) eod and get good gains without bloat, I would be able to push a little more weight with bloat but I don't want that.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Very ,very good reply, and maybe a reduction in the l-dex would help. With test I run .5mg l-dex(arimidex) eod and get good gains without bloat, I would be able to push a little more weight with bloat but I don't want that.

This is something a lot of people don't realize. 1/2 mg EOD a good dosage -- maybe the maximum you should go with a-dex. More than that and you run into trouble, Yet one, even two mgs every day isn't uncommon.

The mentality is changing but some guys still think anti-e's are a "why not, can't hurt" drug. Not true.

 

[Ulter]

isn`t liquidex the same as arimidex??

Yes

Like zygmail said, Since armidex only cuts 59% of the estrogen in a man there is still plenty left over for gains. It just takes the edge off so you don't get the bad sides that high E levels cause.

 

[ManOfArms]

Anti-e's in general will hinder gains.

Personally, I would never touch liquidex.

Nelson, I've used Ldex through out all my cycles.. what would you recommend?

thanks

 

[OXANDRIN]

Yes

Like zygmail said, Since armidex only cuts 59% of the estrogen in a man there is still plenty left over for gains. It just takes the edge off so you don't get the bad sides that high E levels cause.

how does femara play into that?

 

[Train Harder]

Good points. Also bear in mind that from test and d-bol alot of your gains are water weight. So perhaps you are only seeing the real gains from the drugs, rather than the inflated gains from the water weight you have experienced in the past. As for strength, one does not always gain alot of strength on a cycle. Your routine, more than anything, will dictate what type of strength gains you achieve while on a cycle.

Good point BBF. Themachine01 maybe if you posted up your training routine that could be the culprit.

 

[Ulter]

how does femara play into that?

I don't know what the numbers are but I know it cuts a much higher percentage of E than arimidex does. But in doing this it can kill your libido. It comes back within days of stopping though.

 

[babbabuee]

I put on about 8 lbs of water weight the first week on dbol and quickly started taking ldex at .5mg ed and now I'm up a net 6lbs. I'll probably back it off to .5mg eod, but for the most part, I just don't want that bloat and water retention, only to lose it later. that shit just fucks with my head and I don't like that see saw effect.

 

[liftsiron]

Femara can cut up to 90% of estrogen. I perfer l-DEX.

 

[OXANDRIN]

Femara can cut up to 90% of estrogen. I perfer l-DEX.

only reason i asked is because i took 1 tab 2.5mg eod and i felt like i got stronger and leaner. i did this for about 4 weeks. i'm thinking about doing it again

 

[Ulter]

You will definately get leaner. And you'll get more looks from the opposite sex. The only problem is, you won't care.

 

[OXANDRIN]

what are the major sides in taking something like femara alone for 4-6 weeks

i know of destruction of hdl cholestrol
loss of sex drive
joint problems

what about internal problems?

do any major organs need a lot of estrogen?

and memory loss? is this true?

 

[Ulter]

As a male you only need very small amounts of estrogen to maintain the systems it effects. If you have a choice I would suggest aromasin instead.