Lets open this discussion about legal alternatives to Steroids.

[BOOEY]

Maybe it's just me, but when I think of pro-hormones I think of a 17-year old kid trying to find a short-cut to getting big ... can't compare roids and Ph. It's not like Pro-hormones are a big secret. If they were as cost-effective as the real deal, you wouldn't see people trying to get their hands on something illegal when its alternative was legal

 

[DIVISION]

Everyone OUTTA the pool!!!!

Maybe it's just me, but when I think of pro-hormones I think of a 17-year old kid trying to find a short-cut to getting big ... can't compare roids and Ph. It's not like Pro-hormones are a big secret. If they were as cost-effective as the real deal, you wouldn't see people trying to get their hands on something illegal when its alternative was legal

My sentiments exactly...

 

[Becoming]

they have some compelling properties in their own right as compared to other AAS: the hydoxy-T does not aromatize or convert to DHT, while the 17aa-hydroxy nandrolone is a short half-life nandrolone like NPP, in the convenience of an oral. These are potentially beneficial modifications to established steroids, so to think there are significant risks (beyond any other AAS) is an exaggeration IMHO.

Funny - where did you get these facts? any REAL studies you can quote/link to?

I wouldn't know what the exact effects are without extensive pharmacokinetic, drug metabolism and toxicology studies - but I am sure PH companies are willing to shell out for those.... right?

try using a scientific source... http://www.ncbi.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

Like I said - the last person I want giving me the scientific word on something is the guy selling it...

 

[jcam222]

Bear with this long post but I have many thoughts on this thread.

To assume that something is ineffective because it is legal simply does not make sense. Over the years there have been countless substances that were legal for periods of time before they were controlled and / or banned. Why is it so hard to believe someone could develop a steriod or prohormone that is effective but as of yet not controlled? These are not much different than the designer stuff that has been and is made for pro athletes.....things that are developed using legal loopholes that are probably about to close.

My only concern with them is in the lack of long term testing and empirical data. I have seen that mentioned multiple times here and have to agree with that for sure. There is usually a lot of marketing hype associated with some of these products that is based on some remote study or even prediction of what the product "should" do based on its relationship to a similar chemical. Sometimes those assumptions based on the modification (methlyization for example) are absurd. Take for example the difference in equipoise vs. boldenone.

I think in general though some folks miss the point of the post (even if partially its advertising). There are plenty of people who are into fitness, want to get big and want an edge who can no longer afford the risk associated with the scheduled substances. They have to think not only of theirselves and their careers but also about the families who rely on them. When you flame someone for simply wanting to investigate legal possibilities in order to protect their families best interests you are being very narrow minded and frankly its bullshit.

 

[Becoming]

To assume that something is ineffective because it is legal simply does not make sense. Why is it so hard to believe someone could develop a steriod or prohormone that is effective but as of yet not controlled?

Word - they are so similar they must do something...

These are not much different than the designer stuff that has been and is made for pro athletes.....

I think they have more research for those than you think... People like marion jones don't just put anything in their bodies (if they do at all )

My only concern with them is in the lack of long term testing and empirical data. I have seen that mentioned multiple times here and have to agree with that for sure. There is usually a lot of marketing hype associated with some of these products that is based on some remote study or even prediction of what the product "should" do based on its relationship to a similar chemical. Sometimes those assumptions based on the modification (methlyization for example) are absurd.

Exactly bro!

I think in general though some folks miss the point of the post (even if partially its advertising). There are plenty of people who are into fitness, want to get big and want an edge who can no longer afford the risk associated with the scheduled substances. They have to think not only of theirselves and their careers but also about the families who rely on them. When you flame someone for simply wanting to investigate legal possibilities in order to protect their families best interests you are being very narrow minded and frankly its bullshit.

I understand this point bro - If you want to protect yourself and your family it would make sense to do the neccessary research themselves...

BUT what is the use of "staying legal" if you are little more than a lab rat?

(On a side note some of the drug studies I have personally done in the past with animals with research drugs highlight this point - using two very similar chemical, one proven and one for testing (new drugs are generally discovered the same way - by making small variations in proven drugs) - one would drop rats dead at a dose 1/500th of the useful dose of the similar drug-which in contrast was totally safe- think about what you bros are getting into by using untested substances)

Good post bro - karma to you...

 

[DIVISION]

the last person I want giving me the scientific word on something is the guy selling it...

This is truth.

 

[Triple J]

Funny - where did you get these facts? any REAL studies you can quote/link to?

I wouldn't know what the exact effects are without extensive pharmacokinetic, drug metabolism and toxicology studies - but I am sure PH companies are willing to shell out for those.... right?

try using a scientific source... http://www.ncbi.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

Like I said - the last person I want giving me the scientific word on something is the guy selling it...

Hey bro you'll find that a little basic understanding of steroids and chemistry will go a long way towards understanding advertising claims, and save you tons of time researching everthing you may want to consider putting into your body .... also there are experienced users of these substances on other boards, with mostly positive reports, if that means anything.

On the other hand if you want to believe one of the fine sponsors of this site is not to be trusted then that is your business.

 

[Becoming]

Hey bro you'll find that a little basic understanding of steroids and chemistry will go a long way towards understanding advertising claims, and save you tons of time researching everthing you may want to consider putting into your body ....

Like I said, I have actually done animal studies with a variety of experimental drugs and you can't just "know" how it will work out based on an educated guess...

As I just stated, I worked with 2 experimental drugs specifically that were very similar to an accepted medical treatment.... one was perfectly safe and the other killed off more than 50% of mice with 1/500th the approved dosage for the "similar" accepted compound...

As far as trusting any company - Can you document that all of those "user reports" are unique and real people and not handles planted by supplement companies?

And can you say for a fact that these products might be causing molecular damage to some of your cells and organs that might not show up for 2-5 years if not further down the road...?

Advertising claims are just that until they are backed up with peer reviewed scientific publications... and EXTENSIVE pharmacology and toxicology reports...

There is not ONE true scientist or physician that would make such claims (that they can predict exact effects) no matter how long they have been practicing....

also there are experienced users of these substances on other boards, with mostly positive reports, if that means anything.

Sure, Methyl-1 test gives good effects, but we also know it will blow up your liver values too...

Take a shit load of A-bombs 3 times a day every day for a year - it will work, it does not mean it is good for you....

Irresponsible and ignorant is no way to go through life.

 

[DIVISION]

2 what degree...

Methyl-1 test gives good effects, but we also know it will blow up your liver values too...

Take a shit load of A-bombs 3 times a day every day for a year - it will work, it does not mean it is good for you....

Irresponsible and ignorant is no way to go through life.

I agree with your point.

150MG Anadrol ed is no way to live.......

The more you know before you cycle, the more you'll benefit.

 

[Becoming]

Re: 2 what degree...

The more you know before you cycle, the more you'll benefit.

Including what you are taking and what it will do to you.... obviously some people miss the point...