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Leaving powerlifting for good!

S

strongestsurvive

New member
I don't like the way the sport has been going, If you bench 465 without a shirt, if you got the money you can go out and buy a triple ply denim with kevlar stitched into the seams and bench 750 (Bill Craqford has done it). Powerlifting is supposed to be a sport of who can lift the most weights, not who is wearing the most shirts sewed together. I saw louie when he hit his 600 pound bench he had 5 denim shirts sewed together with kevlar stitched into the seams by Karren Keider. I have done with single poly inzer 800sq, 600bn, and 700dl at last years USPF NYS meet @288 body weight in the junior division (21 years old). I have been competing since 15 and have been training since 12. I set a World APF bench record for the teenage 18-19 class in the 308 with a 550 bench (single ply poly). I won the USPF JUNIOR Nationals in 98 as a Superheaveyweight and quailified to go to the IPF Junior worlds (this is when the IPF was still apart of the USPF), but passed on the meet to go to college, I would have misssed the first 2.5 weeks of school. I am going to start competing in the Scottish Highland Games, I have done a few amateur competitions and I don't think that any equipment will find its way into that sport. Unless someone brings in a catapult to throw the caber, then I will quit. Don't mean to offend anybody, everything I have stated is true even Bill Crawford, it is funny that a 750 Pound Bencher can't bench 475 without a shirt something doesn't make sense. Try explaining that to somebody who doesn't know powerlifting, but if you are a powerlifter it will make sense to you (the equipment).

Strongestsurvive
 
Hmmmm...a very good friend of mine can pause 600 on his chest with no shirt but can't get 700 with a triple denim. Hmmm...something sounds fishy......:(

B True
 
All powerlifters are going to the triple denims, huh? I bet 99% of the powerlifters on the planet have not even touched a triple. How can you say we are all going that route? If you a prob with Crawford or Simmons don't lift with them and don't go to the meets they do. What does it matter to you? You refer to a tiny percentage of lifters and say we are all like that? DON'T BE IGNORANT. You really can't believe that anybody benching 450 can put on a shirt and do 750. Sure Crawford works well with the shirts, but he does not get 300 pounds out of his. That is crap. The most I have ever heard from an expert bench shirt user was 100 pounds. With your logic and your bench you should be able to put on Crawford's shirt and bench well over 800. Why don't you do that? You can take home a fat check from the WPO.
 
It may be wrong to say that All powerlifters are going done that road, but the ones who are, ruin the totals of those who don't. And BILL CRAWFORD can't do a 475 without a shirt, He came out to syracuse and trained with Mike Ruggeria and I two weeks before the Arnold (where he benched 700) and couldn't even do 450 back then. Everone in upstate NY knose the truth about Bill that He can't bench 475 with out a shirt. HE GETS 275 POUNDS OUT OF A SHIRT. If you know him give him a call and ask him about the time he came out to syracuse and trained with Mike and John. He runs that Adirondack Nuatilus and everybody up there knows he can't lift the weights with out a shirt. Why I don't do it because I am not it the sport for money nor faking to be strong, I AM PROUD OF THE LIFTS I HAVE DONE AND KNOW I CAN DO THEM WITH OUT THE EQUIPMENT.

STRONGESTSURVIVE
 
Sounds like you have a problem with this guy...not powerlifting.

He gets more out of his equipment than you do. Is that his fault? Just because someone chooses to live by the rules, does it make them wrong? No.

B True
 
strongestsurvive Why leave the sport because of this? If you lift in the IPF, USAPL, NASA, WNPF or a few other orgs you will not be competing with a double ply user. I don't even know of a federation that allows the triples you were talking about. A lift done in a 3 ply garment is not recognized by virtually every federation I know of. Nothing to get all upset about and leave the game. If you are pushing crazy huge numbers like you say you are, than I am sure you inspire lots of lifters. You inspire me!Don't sweat the double and triple ply guys. When you are on the platform it is all about you. We are all brothers in powerlifting. It would be a shame for you to leave.
 
I have talked to Bill Crawford on the phone and ya he gets alot out of his shirt but he says his best with his shirt is like 760lbs. But he bneches 600 raw. Thats what he says anyway. If you seen different then you seen it , but that is not what he claims.
 
I don't enter plifting contests and I've never worn a bench shirt.........but I am in engineering, and from what I've read about these shirts I wouldn't discount a 275lb increase in one's bench from using them. I read one guy saying the bar wouldn't touch his chest unless he had over 400lbs on..........how can anyone read that and say bench shirts only give a "minimal" advantage??
The friggin thing is like a compressed coil, those fibers are just chomping at the bit to return to their original state. That's going beyond "supporting" the rotators, that's purely a form of "'aid".
Now I could care less if someone wants to wear one, or if meets allow them........really, who gives a fuck??? But those guys that wear them shouldn't be allowed to play it off like it's "all them" lifting the weight........cause it ain't!!!
 
Strongest,
You have some of your information wrong. You are also putting down two friends of mine. Bill benched 625 raw before he hit his 750 this year. So, yes he does get a lot out of a bench shirt, but not 250 lbs. You need to keep in mind that Bill doesn't train year round. Depending on when you catch him, his strength varies a lot. The shirt he benched 750 in was a double canvas shirt.

Lou's shirt was a double denim with a patch in it. I put the shirt on him at that meet, so don't tell me differently. Lou also gets a lot out of his shirt. Is it wrong for them to train in a way that allows them to get the most out of their equipment? Who is smarter? Them for getting the largest carryover or you for not taking advantage of what the rules allow????

If you are against equipment, that's fine. Just don't compare yourself to those who choose to use equipment. Lift for yourself. not for others.
 
Bill did a meet with us in july of 97, he wore a double poly and only hit 460. It was at the APF Bench on the Beach in Anlgola, NY. The meet director was Mike Wlosinski, if you are not from New York you problably don't know the truth about Bill Crawford, there are some REAL 700 pound benchers from Upstate NY, all who live in the same town as Bill (Bob Hickey and Dave Barnes). All of us used to train at World Gym in Saratoga when Bill and Tom Hickey worked there. Dave and Bob both have done over 600 pound benches without shirts in meets. Bob Hickey did a 650 with out a shirt at a body weight of 270 back at the IPA nationals in 97. We are all from the same town and there are a lot of 500-700 pound benchers around the area. Everyone up there knows the truth about Bill, I am going to the Arnold this year to help out Paul Childress and if Bill is their I will confront him in front of everyone and I guarantee he will not lie to people who are from his hometown. I have trained with him and we have competed in alot of the same meets, I wish some of you can talk to dave barnes and bob hickey, if those two are around at the Arnold, Bill won't even try to lie and say he does 500 with out a shirt. They really get frustrated when bill gets more credit than all the people who are alot stronger than him. And all of them will tell you Bill is a KNOWN LIER. It may sound personal, but Bill shouldn't lie about what he really does with out a shirt.

strongestsurvive
 
He benched the 625 without the shirt in training. True or not doesn't matter. What does is he has benched 750 in a meet. That is all that matters. I saw Bob's 650 bench and he is one strong SOB, not doubting that. But, give Bill his credit. Nobody has ever benched more at 275 than he has. Like it or not equipment is part of the game.
 
Hey strongestsurvive why are you leaving the sport going out bashing the pioneer of modern powerlifting-Louie Simmons. Perhaps you should stop crying so much (thats why the bar keeps slipping out of your hands) and start respecting lifters who are stronger than you-instead of bashing them with lies. Go ahead and quit powerlifting if you want but nobody will believe your LIES about a bench shirt giving someone a 275 pound increase. I would like to see you go against Crawford or Simmons raw, or with a shirt and I know that if you tried to match their PR's then the far would come crashing down on your bra faster than Roseanne goes down on a plate of brownies!
 
Cyto,
What part of FLA are you in? I'm in the South FLA area. Always looking for new guys to come train with us.
 
I beat him in 97 and so did about 6 other guys, I was 19 at the time and hit 550, bill hit 460. We where both wearing poly shirts. The meet was at the NYS bench on the beach in Angola NY. The meet director in Mike Wlosinski (the northeast chair of the USPF). If you want his email I can send it to you and he will give you the meet results. And I wasn't putting louie down by saying he wears the equipment, I was using him as an example.

strongestsurvive
 
Strongest,
You beat him in 97 and that doesn't matter now. You seem to have a personal problem with Bill. That's between you guys. Bill has always been very helpful to me. We talk on the phone every couple of months and he's a good guy. If you don't like him, that's fine. But, that doesn't diminish what he has accomplished. I also know Mike and had dinner with him at the 99 Westside meet. I'm not doubting that you are a strong guy. I wish you all the best, but this personal stuff is best left off of the internet.
 
Hey Flapwrlftr, I'm originally from Fort Lauderdale...and I might move back down there some day. Where do you guys train at.....I used to train at golds off Pine Island and also Worlds in Plantation
 
:devil:
I guess in this case you don't live up to your handle. Goodbye and take your negative comments about our much loved way of life with you.
 
Ok...i am new to powerlifting so maybe my 2 cents ain't worth much...but here is what i think.

All this boils down to is someone who thinks that powerlifting shirts give too much of advantage.

I think he has a good point.

Isn't a raw bench press the most efficient way of measuring man vs. bar. Screw all this shirt talk bla bla bla...It gives rotator cuff protection etc...
Sounds like everyone has too much pride to lower their "PRs" by 100pds or more because they would rather live in this fantasy world of shirts. If you want to find out who really has the strongest bench you do it raw and if you have rotator cuff problems than find another way to protect yourself...I think there must be another way of protecting the shoulder.

In life you have no straps, no belts, no special shirts. So don't give someone a title of being stronger than someone else when in life they are not.

Just my 2 bits
 
Pick another federation!!!! If you do not like the rules...don't put it down...just pick another federation.

It is very simple. If they allow something in my sport of strongman...you better dang well believe that I am going to use it when competitions come around. If I look over and people are wrapping their elbows...you better believe that I will to.

If the rules allow it and you choose not to use it...well...you made the choice.

B True
 
Hey, i agree,

This really ain't my place to argue. I haven't done any meets. All i am saying is that i think the true test of someones bench is raw.
Throwing shirts in seems to make it more complicated...

Instead of persons strength ====> max bench

It is persons stength + shirt ====> max bench

The shirt is variable...like other people said. It varies whereas i think a persons strenth does not vary so much. Why should a competition be tainted by a variable.
 
Cheesepuss,
We train in my garage. I just couldn't stand working out in a commercial gym, it almost sucked the life out of me. We have ten men and two women. One of the guys lives off of Pine Island and he comes up four days a week. It takes him about 45 minutes on the weekends and about an hour during the week. Let me know when you will be moving down.
 
BigPhysicsBastard - It's good to hear that I am not the only Engineer on this board. I am in Telecommunications and you?

It seems as if bench shirts have gone way, way beyond their original purpose. Now you need nearly half the max weight on the bar just to push the it down to the chest! If it is TRULY a safety concern than it is 'UNSAFE' to wear a bench shirt if it allows one to go 10 - 35 percent beyond their max (rough estimates of safety limits)! A bench shirt that is designed for safety should not allow one to bench more than a few percent beyond their 'raw max', correct?!?!? I mean apply logic consistently people! As far as the shirt returning to its original weave/structure, BigPhysicsBastard is correct. It is just like a spring!

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. If one can't work on the weakest link and make it stronger, than it will be the limiting factor in one's max bench. The bench shirt instantly strengthens the weakest link. That is not a true test of 'raw strength'. Go work on the weakest link in the gym, without a bench shirt and bring it up to strength; focus on that and get rid of the bench shirts once and for all!

Now here is the problem - what Bill Crawford has done in the past really doesn't matter today. I read a recent interview of him in PowerliftingUSA and he seems like a good guy.

I think it would be a good show in the sport if all benchers rotated contests whereby they would compete once in a while (notice I said 'once in a while') WITHOUT bench shirts. It would be a good grass roots motion on their part to return to where benching was (and should be by some opinions) 15 years ago. I understand strongestsurvive's point. He feels that the equipment is skewing the results of who is really the strongest. He may only get 10 percent out of his shirt where Bill Crawford gets 25 - 30 percent. Don't knock the guy. He is only venting. He seems like a really, really strong guy' he is just tired of all the equipment. Maybe they should implement a new rule. If you cannot put on your bench shirt without assistance, than you cannot wear one!
 
Look.....I dont' have a problem with meets that allow bench shirts, if it's legal....hell why not??? But there shouldn't be any talk of "I got the biggest bench".......and no records from these meets should be recorded. Or at least put a big fat fucking asterix next to it with an explanation of bench shirts. The problem is, is that the money is to be had at the meets where the shirts are allowed.......so I don't blame anyone for putting one on, money is at stake after all.

flex......I'm going for Mechanical E.
 
I say, If you don't enter powerlifting contests it is no business of yours what we do and if you don't wear a bench shirt you can't comment on what they do for people because you don't know squat.

flex-mb - What is your evidence that bench shirts are 'UNSAFE'? Is this something they cover in engineering school? I am sure you are aware of the survey taken with powerlifting promoters that showed the fact that injuries have sharply declined since bench shirt became popular. Not to mention the popularity jump of the sport. Have you even wore a shirt? Why would someone need to apply your logic? We have hands on proof that proves YOUR logic to be wrong.

Oh, and for the record.. Clay getting 250 pounds out of his shirt is bull shit. He has lifted over 600 without a shirt. He probably gets more out of his shirt than anybody, but nobody gets near that much. I don't care what your 'engineering' degree tells you about bench shirts. If you don't know what you are talking about you should not talk. There are people on this board with 100 times more experience than you and can personally comment on the use of bench shirts. Your engineering theories mean squat to us.
 
it's bad enough when felow powerlifters go at each other with this debate,but it makes me laugh when you have someone that doesn't even where a shirt or probaly doesn't even compete ,that ads there comments.i have no problem if people don't like the shirts and frankly i don't give a rat's ass what the next man gets froma shirt.i use them,i will always use them and i'll try to get the most i can from one.if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.have a great day.
 
Please read the post again PowFit. I am asking a 'question' which is why the sentence begins with 'Is it'. The statement is a question. One can ask a quesiton in the form of a statement.

As far as aplying logic is concerned, is it not logical that when a bench press shirt allows one to go beyond their 'raw max' that they are beyond the strength limits of their rotator cuffs, triceps, ligaments, tendons, etc.? Quite obviously they are. Bench press shirt = higher 'max' than with no bench press shirt. Higher than 'raw max' = more weight than the body can move on its own = more stress than than the joints can handle under the 'raw max' effort. This can lead to injury. I am not saying that there is empirical evidence out there that would not suggest otherwise. I was only making a point by asking a question.

I will never wear a bench shirt. I lift the weight with my body, not with a bench shirt mashing the heads of my humerous's into the glenoid fossa on the ends of my clavicle. I alone lift the weight! Occasionally I will use straps when the tendonitus in my forearms flares up to give them time to recover, but that is the only equipment that I use.

I am not going to digress and start attacking others in this thread. I already suggested starting a new thread so that people won't start attacking others and making this issue personal.
 
Powerlfiting is a sport. Just like every other sport there is equipment. In college baseball they allow aluminum bats...does anyone complain when they dont allow them in the majors? Does anyone in college basball use a wooden bat....because using an aluminum gives them an advantage...hell no. They use the best equipment available. Does it make them any less of a hitter that they use aluminum and not wood...no because everyone uses aluminum in college. As long as every one is allowed to use the same equipment...then it is a level playing ground...whats the big deal?

Equipment is part of any sport. If you dont like the double and triple denims....find another federation. Don't bash other people saying that there accomplishments are a joke...when they worked to get where they are....equipment or not. Nothing but hard work is gonna give you a 2200 total.
 
Does anybody know what the biggest "raw" bench is???
I heard that Larry Allen hit 700, and nothing was said about a bench shirt.........he could still have worn one though, but I'd just like to know who's on record for the biggest raw lift??
 
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