Lean bulking and cardio?

[ProtienFiend]

the theory is true, with a clause.... run in the morning on an empty stomach, only if youre juicing, otherwise you will lose too much muscle.

 

[D_Mac]

That was all theory hypotized by pundits back in the 90's. There is no evidence it works though. But the theory itself is flawed. The body does not go into "fat burning mode" because glycogen levels are low. That's also the theory of the Atkins diet and it's horseshit. The body still has glycogen even in the morning. At any rate, even if you were completely depleted of glycogen the body will more likely use muscle tissue for energy -- hence it's catabolic.

Ya I don't know Nelson, the Atkins diet dropped a lot of weight from a lot of people, I've seen it work. Now personally I think something like the southbeach diet is healthier but still...

So are you one of those guys that says "calories in calories out", it's just a matter of eating less than you burn no matter when you eat and when you train? Or do you have a different suggestion for optimal muscle retention and fat loss during a lean bulking cycle?

 

[D_Mac]

running backwards will take years off your life.

God dammit Jack...

 

[Nelson Montana]

Ya I don't know Nelson, the Atkins diet dropped a lot of weight from a lot of people, I've seen it work. Now personally I think something like the southbeach diet is healthier but still...

So are you one of those guys that says "calories in calories out", it's just a matter of eating less than you burn no matter when you eat and when you train? Or do you have a different suggestion for optimal muscle retention and fat loss during a lean bulking cycle?

Okay, this is what I mean. The Atkins diet worked, but it wasn't because it suddenly altered tens of thousands of years of biolocal evolution and the people using it started using fat as a primary fuel source. It worked because THEY ATE LESS CALORIES. (You'd be surprised how many calories you'd drop if didn't eat carbs). Sure, there are some people who didn't eat less calories on the ATkin's diet. They're the ones who didn't lose weight.

I know it isn't the theory in vouge, but yes, it's about calories.

DISCALIMER: That doesn't mean you can eat nothing but crap and it's just as good as anything else. But once healthy dietary needs are met, yep, calories, calories, calories -- at least in terms of weight gain or loss.

It ain't fancy, modern, scientific sounding, or what the latest guru is saying, but it's the absolute undeniable truth. And I say that after studying and espousing many of those fancy theories.

Calorie surplus -- you gain weight. Calorie deficit -- you lose weight. Works every time.

I also think it's very possible to gain muscle and lose fat. But if you want to get the best results from one or the other you need to concentrate on doing one or the other.

 

[jackangel]

what would be your guidelines for gaining muscle and shedding fat simultaneously? would it involve a slight/modest caloric surplus? do you put much emphasis on the post-workout "window of opportunity"?

 

[Nelson Montana]

what would be your guidelines for gaining muscle and shedding fat simultaneously? would it involve a slight/modest caloric surplus? do you put much emphasis on the post-workout "window of opportunity"?

I think the post workout window of opportunity has some merit but is overrated.

To answer your question, high volume training/high protein diet. Pretty simple.

 

[ProtienFiend]

I think the post workout window of opportunity has some merit but is overrated.

To answer your question, high volume training/high protein diet. Pretty simple.

And train to failure or no?

 

[Nelson Montana]

And train to failure or no?

There are many ways to reach "failure." And the term is nebulous. That's a discussion in itself.

 

[tommboy]

I did take a personal training course that was accredited by a national orginization, I think it was W.I.T.S (world instructing training school). And they definately went over that you cannot burn fat only food/calories you eat any other time of day but in the morning. They also said that in the morning on an empty stomach you don't burn stuff you ingested that day but rather body fat. But you can lose weight by working out any other time of the day and burning calories.

 

[D_Mac]

I did take a personal training course that was accredited by a national orginization, I think it was W.I.T.S (world instructing training school). And they definately went over that you cannot burn fat only food/calories you eat any other time of day but in the morning. They also said that in the morning on an empty stomach you don't burn stuff you ingested that day but rather body fat. But you can lose weight by working out any other time of the day and burning calories.

It seems to make sense that this would be the case, I mean you only have a limited amount of stored sugars and then your body has to eat its own fat to get energy. The question is, does your body just pack that fat back on as soon as you eat, leading to the same amount of fat loss in the day anyway, also there is the question of wether or not the body burns more muscle during morning periods as well.

Morning cardio would have the benefit of jumpstarting the metabolism early, although that wouldn't be dependant on an empty stomach, just on an early workout...