Lean bulking and cardio?

[OMEGA]

. . .and don't eat for one full hour after you finish. . .works wonders for me. . .

ditto

 

[Nelson Montana]

Yeah, the "don't eat" part works well.

 

[jackangel]

thank you for that completely relevant and enlightening cut and paste, need2.

my impression is that morning/fasted-state cardio is catabolic primarily because of the presence of higher cortisol levels upon waking. i don't know if it does much good, but i've recently taken to having a high-gi carb and whey mix immediately after a run, as if i had just come back from the gym.

as for the reason people do it, i thought it had to do with the ease with which one will go through stored glycogen or freely-circulating sugar as sources fuel and then tap into stored fat as a steady fuel source. i don't know the effect of metabolic processes during sleep on muscle glycogen, though.

or if fat will be preferentially targeted as opposed to muscle tissue via gluconeogenesis or something like that.

 

[Nelson Montana]

thank you for that completely relevant and enlightening cut and paste, need2.

my impression is that morning/fasted-state cardio is catabolic primarily because of the presence of higher cortisol levels upon waking. i don't know if it does much good, but i've recently taken to having a high-gi carb and whey mix immediately after a run, as if i had just come back from the gym.

as for the reason people do it, i thought it had to do with the ease with which one will go through stored glycogen or freely-circulating sugar as sources fuel and then tap into stored fat as a steady fuel source. i don't know the effect of metabolic processes during sleep on muscle glycogen, though.

or if fat will be preferentially targeted as opposed to muscle tissue via gluconeogenesis or something like that.

That was all theory hypotized by pundits back in the 90's. There is no evidence it works though. But the theory itself is flawed. The body does not go into "fat burning mode" because glycogen levels are low. That's also the theory of the Atkins diet and it's horseshit. The body still has glycogen even in the morning. At any rate, even if you were completely depleted of glycogen the body will more likely use muscle tissue for energy -- hence it's catabolic.

 

[OMEGA]

LOLOL

Well Nelson your not going to undo our "Theories" which tend to work.

some of us cant lose fat unless we do AM cardio and we have been around the block.

I also distinctly remember you being some what Ectomorphic which can to a degree explain you experiences with cardio.

being the Endo/ Mesomorph I am I am going to cling to my morning cardio if its the last thing I do , its simply woks TOO well for us.


Now that being said we are just disagreeing, its not a communist manifesto.
I enjoy your point of view as much as I enjoy my own


Cardio for people like us will raise BMR to a marked degree if done in the AM asap, the earlier in the day you do it, the earlier in the day you've raised your BMR. You will burn calories for a longer period of waking-hours .Hence more Net calories burned.

ADD a PM lifting session and good by fatty

 

[tommboy]

but will this work for an ecto just tryin to lose some stupid fat wil gained more and more muscle slowly?

 

[Nelson Montana]

LOLOL

Well Nelson your not going to undo our "Theories" which tend to work.

some of us cant lose fat unless we do AM cardio and we have been around the block.

I also distinctly remember you being some what Ectomorphic which can to a degree explain you experiences with cardio.

being the Endo/ Mesomorph I am I am going to cling to my morning cardio if its the last thing I do , its simply woks TOO well for us.


Now that being said we are just disagreeing, its not a communist manifesto.
I enjoy your point of view as much as I enjoy my own


Cardio for people like us will raise BMR to a marked degree if done in the AM asap, the earlier in the day you do it, the earlier in the day you've raised your BMR. You will burn calories for a longer period of waking-hours .Hence more Net calories burned.

ADD a PM lifting session and good by fatty

No problem. I do think it's simply burning more calories and being aware of ingesting less calories that's "working." This is a case of one "theory" vs another. What makes more sense? Obviously if something works, it works, but there are many things that work. I've had clients who were endos who dropped a considerable abount of bodyfat with more weight training and less food. No cardio.

Having more muscle raises BMR far better than cardio. Cardio only burns calories while you're doing it and muscle burns calories throughout the day because it requires more energy to sustain muscles greater weight. That doesn't mean cardio won't do anything. I just think it isn't the best approach, especially for guys looking to put on muscle. And the "morning on an empty stomach " thing is, as mentioned, a theory. Have you tried doing an equal amount of cardio at another time of the day with the same exact training and diet?

This debate will go on forever. I guess the best thing is to say "Lots of things work -- what sounds best to you?" I can live with that. But when someone says running on an empty stomach forces the body to use more fat than usual...well, I can't take that as fact.

 

[OMEGA]

Thanks, I think your point of view is technically MORE correct then my own, especially if we truly number crunch calories in vs calories expended referenced over ones true LBM.

I just have never been able to translate that INTO reality

and that seems to hold true generally for alot of people, enough so where we almost religiously believe in am cardio at to hell with everyone else hehe

 

[jackangel]

running backwards will take years off your life.

 

[youngguns]

uhh, burn fat but not calories!?