Land of the stupid, Home of the screwed

[canadianhitman]

I'd like to jump in here and point out to Musclemom that the housing collapse part of the last devastating correction was in fact caused by CLINTON, not Bush: the whole "every American should be able to own a home" policy that put Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac on to the ludicrous practice of giving out cheap mortgages to people who couldn't really afford them is on Bubba.

"In 1999, Fannie Mae came under pressure from the Clinton administration to expand mortgage loans to low and moderate income borrowers by increasing the ratios of their loan portfolios in distressed inner city areas"

 

[musclemom]

So the only time we've balanced the federal budget in our lifetime is the result of Reagan and Bush? Do you mind typing that out in a separate statement?

(and no, I don't think that was the case. Clinton did benefit from a Reagan/Bush tailwind, but what put him over the goal line was a fake $5 trillion internet bubble)

Frankly, I don't "get" the whole federal deficit thing, seriously. In fact, I fully admit I'm not capable of having a coherent debate about politics or economics. I flunked economics, I have never given have a shit about politics.

You and me, Plunk, we're real good examples of the opposite ends of the spectrum of people in this country. You've admitted on the forums that you are in the top percentile of tax payers. I openly have admitted that my household income has never broken $90k. You and I we have a different way of looking at things. You are a manufacturer doing business on an international level. My husband and I are basically blue collar people living paycheck to paycheck.

Just TRY looking at things from a holistic perspective. Something is inherently wrong with a country when the MAJORITY of its population (which I represent) live in financial fear, incapable of putting money away in a savings account (never mind retirement), fear for their jobs, have homes that have no equity, are sick from constant stress, etc., etc., etc.

People like you don't understand why the rest of us are bitching. You tell us to live within our means and STFU. What I'm telling you is that to MAKE OUR BILLS there are those of us that have no CHOICE but to use credit cards. People who are in blue collar careers aren't necessarily being lazy, the truth is, not everyone is wired to be white collar and who the fuck would pick up the garbage or cut your hair if that WAS the standard? But blue collar/laborers shouldn't be denigrated or demeaned because we chose - or are simply only capable - of lesser paying careers. Most of us are honest, decent, hard working people who aren't asking to take vacations in the south of France or skiing in the Alps, we just want to be able to get away to the mountains or shore a couple of times a year and to be able to clothe and feed ourselves and our children and still put a couple of bucks away so we can fix the roof if it leaks. We don't want to be afraid of what's going to happen to us when we hit our 60s and can't work anymore. Once upon a time, not working white collar was not looked down upon. When did we enter the age of snobery? For that matter, once upon a time, not too long ago, you could be a blue collar worker and support your family on one salary. When did that change?

And if you're thinking "well, you can't make enough money, go back to school and change careers" honestly, when you get to a certain stage in life going to college and changing careers isn't an option. Doing a full day of work and THEN doing college at night isn't for most of the 40+ crowd. We simply don't have the energy.

All of this is a round-about way of stating the obvious, that people who are in the top percentile of tax payers can afford to lose a larger percentage of income and it proportionately impacts them far less. Realistically, if this WEREN'T America you wouldn't enjoy the lifestyle you currently do. Accept it, pay your taxes and move on. Realize that while writing that check hurts, you still have nice vacations, drive new cars, wear designer clothes and know what your old age will look like. Be grateful you aren't already planning how you're going to get the money together to fill the oil tank before next November.

Or think of things THIS way ... let's say a law was passed that would increase taxes by 5% across the board. What, if anything, would you have to cut out of your life? I honestly can't tell you what I would cut out, but I do know I couldn't make my car payment unless I made dramatic changes in my life.

That's how the majority of Americans live. We are not lazy or stupid or sucking at the tit of welfare. We do our jobs and go home and want to spend time we are not working with our family and friends, chilled out and relaxed, not living in constant financial fear. We don't want to work more than 40 hours a week, and THAT DOESN'T MAKE US LAZY! And another thing, just because a person isn't rich doesn't mean they WANT to be rich, or even that they resent the rich, most of us just want to NOT have to worry ABOUT money.

Frankly, I don't care whose at the helm of this country, all I have EVER really cared about is making my life less stressful and honestly, that's all the majority really gives a crap about, too.

 

[Wulfgar]

Frankly, I don't "get" the whole federal deficit thing, seriously. In fact, I fully admit I'm not capable of having a coherent debate about politics or economics. I flunked economics, I have never given have a shit about politics.

You and me, Plunk, we're real good examples of the opposite ends of the spectrum of people in this country. You've admitted on the forums that you are in the top percentile of tax payers. I openly have admitted that my household income has never broken $90k. You and I we have a different way of looking at things. You are a manufacturer doing business on an international level. My husband and I are basically blue collar people living paycheck to paycheck.

Just TRY looking at things from a holistic perspective. Something is inherently wrong with a country when the MAJORITY of its population (which I represent) live in financial fear, incapable of putting money away in a savings account (never mind retirement), fear for their jobs, have homes that have no equity, are sick from constant stress, etc., etc., etc.

People like you don't understand why the rest of us are bitching. You tell us to live within our means and STFU. What I'm telling you is that to MAKE OUR BILLS there are those of us that have no CHOICE but to use credit cards. People who are in blue collar careers aren't necessarily being lazy, the truth is, not everyone is wired to be white collar and who the fuck would pick up the garbage or cut your hair if that WAS the standard? But blue collar/laborers shouldn't be denigrated or demeaned because we chose - or are simply only capable - of lesser paying careers. Most of us are honest, decent, hard working people who aren't asking to take vacations in the south of France or skiing in the Alps, we just want to be able to get away to the mountains or shore a couple of times a year and to be able to clothe and feed ourselves and our children and still put a couple of bucks away so we can fix the roof if it leaks. We don't want to be afraid of what's going to happen to us when we hit our 60s and can't work anymore. Once upon a time, not working white collar was not looked down upon. When did we enter the age of snobery? For that matter, once upon a time, not too long ago, you could be a blue collar worker and support your family on one salary. When did that change?

And if you're thinking "well, you can't make enough money, go back to school and change careers" honestly, when you get to a certain stage in life going to college and changing careers isn't an option. Doing a full day of work and THEN doing college at night isn't for most of the 40+ crowd. We simply don't have the energy.

All of this is a round-about way of stating the obvious, that people who are in the top percentile of tax payers can afford to lose a larger percentage of income and it proportionately impacts them far less. Realistically, if this WEREN'T America you wouldn't enjoy the lifestyle you currently do. Accept it, pay your taxes and move on. Realize that while writing that check hurts, you still have nice vacations, drive new cars, wear designer clothes and know what your old age will look like. Be grateful you aren't already planning how you're going to get the money together to fill the oil tank before next November.

Or think of things THIS way ... let's say a law was passed that would increase taxes by 5% across the board. What, if anything, would you have to cut out of your life? I honestly can't tell you what I would cut out, but I do know I couldn't make my car payment unless I made dramatic changes in my life.

That's how the majority of Americans live. We are not lazy or stupid or sucking at the tit of welfare. We do our jobs and go home and want to spend time we are not working with our family and friends, chilled out and relaxed, not living in constant financial fear. We don't want to work more than 40 hours a week, and THAT DOESN'T MAKE US LAZY! And another thing, just because a person isn't rich doesn't mean they WANT to be rich, or even that they resent the rich, most of us just want to NOT have to worry ABOUT money.

Frankly, I don't care whose at the helm of this country, all I have EVER really cared about is making my life less stressful and honestly, that's all the majority really gives a crap about, too.

MM the problem is that the majority of the people you are talking about and representing were heinously taken advantage of by large corporations over-leveraging on a massive scale with very complex schemes aimed at soaking up as much floating liquidity as possible. This was the heart of the sub-prime mortgage crisis. The banks that participated in these actions and those who either let them or turned a blind eye to what they were doing are honestly to blame.

The banks ill defend themselves in the face of this saying " we didnt force people to take the loans"..which is true... but they also did not take the time to explain the gravity of the situation these people were putting themselves in taking stated income, negative amortization, adjustable loans. It as the perfect storm for disaster. And the orst of the storm hasnt yet been realized. As I write this 28% of mortgages are in default. What is going to happen when all these homes go into foreclosure? Are we looking at 1/3rd of the country being homeless? What are we going to do with 110 million homeless people walking around who have no savings, no credit, no hope and families to feed?

These are the very real problems we are facing and extreme measures wwill need to be taken to avoid a full on Weimar end of the US as we know it and the beginning of a time of human suffering not scene since ancient times. When the only thing left to do is demonetize our fiat currency and try to reinstate a gold standard it will be a dark age indeed. Expect mass starvation and plague. Wars will ensure, structure of production will be disinigrated, and capital will be cannabalized. The only thing I will point out is in regards to hat is already happening with people preparing for the impending doom we are awaiting is this. Soulless individuals are already desecrating the dead for profit in our overheated fiat system. in Florida and not to many years ago they caught a mortuary dumping bodies in a mass grave after stripping them of ALL their worldly possessions. Evil people will thrive on the sympathies, ignorance, greed, etc.. of others no matter what system is in place.

People who believe they are above laws, including; society, natural, and universal, will always try to make it to the next level, until they, and others, have convinced them that they can do no wrong, and theirs is the only true way. It becomes easier as the vultures around them keep telling them they are right, as long as the gravy train is flowing.

Fiat, gold, guns, tube socks are not evil, they are things. Individuals are evil, and when desire becomes lust the conscience knows no bounds. George Washington said it best, "Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder." Once you sell your virtue once it becomes successively easier and cheaper to be bought.

The poor are being crushed by inflation, the wealthy can and will evade what taxes they can moving their wealth into other derivatives such as the PM surge we are no witnessing, and the middle class will get pulled down by the poor because it is the only thing they can reach.


Iam a student of financial history and we are in a time that can be best related to the financial crash of the 1340's. I urge anyone and everyone to read this article. History has a funny way of repeating itself.

Venice Rigged Global Financial Collapse

 

[canadianhitman]

MM...he working class shouldn't just look up at white collar workers shaking their fists, because what is really screwing them over is below them; the non-working welfare bums and illegals who don't pay taxes. Get rid of everyone who doesn't pull their own weight, and you'd see people in blue collar jobs back to the standard of living they enjoyed in the 70s (solidy middle-class, vacations at the shore in summer, no need to work overtime, ect). The drain on those who work by people who don't is sickening.

 

[miplank]

Frankly, I don't "get" the whole federal deficit thing, seriously. In fact, I fully admit I'm not capable of having a coherent debate about politics or economics. I flunked economics, I have never given have a shit about politics.

You and me, Plunk, we're real good examples of the opposite ends of the spectrum of people in this country. You've admitted on the forums that you are in the top percentile of tax payers. I openly have admitted that my household income has never broken $90k. You and I we have a different way of looking at things. You are a manufacturer doing business on an international level. My husband and I are basically blue collar people living paycheck to paycheck.
.

You make a household income of 90k and live paycheck to paycheck???

 

[Wulfgar]

You make a household income of 90k and live paycheck to paycheck???

I was actually thinking the same thing

makes me wonder how much debt the family is holding

 

[canadianhitman]

You make a household income of 90k and live paycheck to paycheck???

Depends on where you live. 90k could be barely enough to be scraping by if you live in an expensive city. My sister makes 80k and is just getting by, thanks to paying the mortgage on a home in downtown Toronto. While it's building wealth thanks to the rapid appreciation of properties there, it doesn't leave her with nearly as much dispensable income as you might think her salary would allow for.

 

[mrplunkey]

Frankly, I don't "get" the whole federal deficit thing, seriously. In fact, I fully admit I'm not capable of having a coherent debate about politics or economics. I flunked economics, I have never given have a shit about politics.

You and me, Plunk, we're real good examples of the opposite ends of the spectrum of people in this country. You've admitted on the forums that you are in the top percentile of tax payers. I openly have admitted that my household income has never broken $90k. You and I we have a different way of looking at things. You are a manufacturer doing business on an international level. My husband and I are basically blue collar people living paycheck to paycheck.

Just TRY looking at things from a holistic perspective. Something is inherently wrong with a country when the MAJORITY of its population (which I represent) live in financial fear, incapable of putting money away in a savings account (never mind retirement), fear for their jobs, have homes that have no equity, are sick from constant stress, etc., etc., etc.

People like you don't understand why the rest of us are bitching. You tell us to live within our means and STFU. What I'm telling you is that to MAKE OUR BILLS there are those of us that have no CHOICE but to use credit cards. People who are in blue collar careers aren't necessarily being lazy, the truth is, not everyone is wired to be white collar and who the fuck would pick up the garbage or cut your hair if that WAS the standard? But blue collar/laborers shouldn't be denigrated or demeaned because we chose - or are simply only capable - of lesser paying careers. Most of us are honest, decent, hard working people who aren't asking to take vacations in the south of France or skiing in the Alps, we just want to be able to get away to the mountains or shore a couple of times a year and to be able to clothe and feed ourselves and our children and still put a couple of bucks away so we can fix the roof if it leaks. We don't want to be afraid of what's going to happen to us when we hit our 60s and can't work anymore. Once upon a time, not working white collar was not looked down upon. When did we enter the age of snobery? For that matter, once upon a time, not too long ago, you could be a blue collar worker and support your family on one salary. When did that change?

And if you're thinking "well, you can't make enough money, go back to school and change careers" honestly, when you get to a certain stage in life going to college and changing careers isn't an option. Doing a full day of work and THEN doing college at night isn't for most of the 40+ crowd. We simply don't have the energy.

All of this is a round-about way of stating the obvious, that people who are in the top percentile of tax payers can afford to lose a larger percentage of income and it proportionately impacts them far less. Realistically, if this WEREN'T America you wouldn't enjoy the lifestyle you currently do. Accept it, pay your taxes and move on. Realize that while writing that check hurts, you still have nice vacations, drive new cars, wear designer clothes and know what your old age will look like. Be grateful you aren't already planning how you're going to get the money together to fill the oil tank before next November.

Or think of things THIS way ... let's say a law was passed that would increase taxes by 5% across the board. What, if anything, would you have to cut out of your life? I honestly can't tell you what I would cut out, but I do know I couldn't make my car payment unless I made dramatic changes in my life.

That's how the majority of Americans live. We are not lazy or stupid or sucking at the tit of welfare. We do our jobs and go home and want to spend time we are not working with our family and friends, chilled out and relaxed, not living in constant financial fear. We don't want to work more than 40 hours a week, and THAT DOESN'T MAKE US LAZY! And another thing, just because a person isn't rich doesn't mean they WANT to be rich, or even that they resent the rich, most of us just want to NOT have to worry ABOUT money.

Frankly, I don't care whose at the helm of this country, all I have EVER really cared about is making my life less stressful and honestly, that's all the majority really gives a crap about, too.

There are so many facets to this post that I know I'm not doing it justice focusing on just one.

But let's talk about opportunity. Access to capital is a huge advantage, but there are two great equalizers: Effort and Education. Effort is tough because it's part genetic and part a function of your parents. But I know there are plenty of blue-collar people who demonstrate tremendous amounts of effort.

So lets hone-in on Education. I want to preserve opportunity and one of the best ways is making sure students have access to learning. Now look at the mess we've created. We've nationalized public education K-12. And instead of us realizing the system is broken and fixing it, politicians get in bed with teacher's unions and maintain the status quo.

So who really is helping the working class? The libtard rambling on about the children being our number one priority (while voting lock-step with the teachers' unions) or some mean-spirited conservative like me that wants to blow the system up because I realize how it's dooming people to sub-optimal lives?

 

[calveless wonder]

Frankly, I don't "get" the whole federal deficit thing, seriously. In fact, I fully admit I'm not capable of having a coherent debate about politics or economics. I flunked economics, I have never given have a shit about politics.

You and me, Plunk, we're real good examples of the opposite ends of the spectrum of people in this country. You've admitted on the forums that you are in the top percentile of tax payers. I openly have admitted that my household income has never broken $90k. You and I we have a different way of looking at things. You are a manufacturer doing business on an international level. My husband and I are basically blue collar people living paycheck to paycheck.

Just TRY looking at things from a holistic perspective. Something is inherently wrong with a country when the MAJORITY of its population (which I represent) live in financial fear, incapable of putting money away in a savings account (never mind retirement), fear for their jobs, have homes that have no equity, are sick from constant stress, etc., etc., etc.

People like you don't understand why the rest of us are bitching. You tell us to live within our means and STFU. What I'm telling you is that to MAKE OUR BILLS there are those of us that have no CHOICE but to use credit cards. People who are in blue collar careers aren't necessarily being lazy, the truth is, not everyone is wired to be white collar and who the fuck would pick up the garbage or cut your hair if that WAS the standard? But blue collar/laborers shouldn't be denigrated or demeaned because we chose - or are simply only capable - of lesser paying careers. Most of us are honest, decent, hard working people who aren't asking to take vacations in the south of France or skiing in the Alps, we just want to be able to get away to the mountains or shore a couple of times a year and to be able to clothe and feed ourselves and our children and still put a couple of bucks away so we can fix the roof if it leaks. We don't want to be afraid of what's going to happen to us when we hit our 60s and can't work anymore. Once upon a time, not working white collar was not looked down upon. When did we enter the age of snobery? For that matter, once upon a time, not too long ago, you could be a blue collar worker and support your family on one salary. When did that change?

And if you're thinking "well, you can't make enough money, go back to school and change careers" honestly, when you get to a certain stage in life going to college and changing careers isn't an option. Doing a full day of work and THEN doing college at night isn't for most of the 40+ crowd. We simply don't have the energy.

All of this is a round-about way of stating the obvious, that people who are in the top percentile of tax payers can afford to lose a larger percentage of income and it proportionately impacts them far less. Realistically, if this WEREN'T America you wouldn't enjoy the lifestyle you currently do. Accept it, pay your taxes and move on. Realize that while writing that check hurts, you still have nice vacations, drive new cars, wear designer clothes and know what your old age will look like. Be grateful you aren't already planning how you're going to get the money together to fill the oil tank before next November.

Or think of things THIS way ... let's say a law was passed that would increase taxes by 5% across the board. What, if anything, would you have to cut out of your life? I honestly can't tell you what I would cut out, but I do know I couldn't make my car payment unless I made dramatic changes in my life.

That's how the majority of Americans live. We are not lazy or stupid or sucking at the tit of welfare. We do our jobs and go home and want to spend time we are not working with our family and friends, chilled out and relaxed, not living in constant financial fear. We don't want to work more than 40 hours a week, and THAT DOESN'T MAKE US LAZY! And another thing, just because a person isn't rich doesn't mean they WANT to be rich, or even that they resent the rich, most of us just want to NOT have to worry ABOUT money.

Frankly, I don't care whose at the helm of this country, all I have EVER really cared about is making my life less stressful and honestly, that's all the majority really gives a crap about, too.

There's about a billion things wrong with this post.

A very large percentage of people who are in the top tax bracket are SELF MADE wealth. They weren't old money, and created their own opportunity. Just because other people can't do it, doesn't mean they should be overly penalized for it.

And the other problem is that it doesn't even necessarily effect the CEO of google or professional athletes and movie stars. It effects the upper middle class businessman who worked their ass off to grow their business from nothing, and finally after years of hard work, sacrifice and chance can make 200-300k a year now. When that figure, when you have kids and a stay at home wife, is practically nothing especially if you live in an area that has a high cost of living.


Capitalism is what makes America beautiful, why people come HERE instead of staying in oppressed countries. Most american born people don't understand that and instead make excuses for their inability to move up the financial scale, like you are doing right now MM. Both my parents are immigrants and worked their ass off to become what they were. My father was born into a war and had his home country carpet bombed and had nuclear bombs dropped on it when he was an infant. He couldn't afford to go to school because he had to work to help the family, but he eventually made it anyways and became successful when he came to the US.

I have NO sympathy for people who bitch about their status in the US. Tell that to a Cuban immigrant who lived in cuba, or a south american that grew up in a shack and in poverty with such a divide in economic scale, that they have NO chance of ever getting an education or making it out of their homeland. They will tell you to go fuck yourself and call you a lazy piece of shit. The US is one of the few countries in the world where you can STILL increase your social standing from nothing to extremely successful. We are a country of fuckin spoiled brats, and i sometimes wish I could have lived in those harsh conditions so I could be more appreciative, but at least i'm cultured and have seen enough different aspects and walks of life to understand the concept. You know what the funny thing is though? Those people in shacks in south america, etc are HAPPY. They make the most of their situation, unlike many people here.


Honestly, people like you make me SICK to my stomach when they bitch about that. Travel around the world to 3rd world countries and see REAL poverty and lack of opportunity, and you will understand.

You have no idea what real struggle is, from a worldwide standpoint. Lose the tunnel vision and you will see

 

[calveless wonder]

You make a household income of 90k and live paycheck to paycheck???

not a lot of money when you have a family and don't live in complete bumblefuck.