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Joint Pain (Tendonitis) after cycle..

nygiants

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just want to know how you guys deal with it.....

more than previous cycles, I'm really feeling it...even with really light weight...everything is hurting.....i think i really pounded my joints while on.....i think i have a slight tear in my shoulder as well...

im taking days off here to recover and there and taking alieve...
 
take some doses of glucosamine and fish oil. these will both help but it will take at least 2 to 3 weeks to start feeling any real difference.
lower your training volume as well now that you are off.
you cant keep pounding the weights for hours on end so make your workouts intense, heavy, and quick.
what were you ON?
 
I recently ended a cycle and am having major issues with my shoulder. I posted something similar to this like a week ago or so. I am now on fish oil, glucosamine, msm and chronditin (all in liquid form). Not doing any ai's and within a week it is definitely better but no way near fixed yet.
 
On cycle do a ton of band work and proprioception instead of just training the big muscles ... when you come off your smaller/stabilizer muscles (ie, teres', infraspinatus, supraspinatus, yada yada) are going to really be in rough shape trying to keep up with oversized larger muscles of the chest, back, delts, and arms.
 
i am having the same problems with both of my shoulders. I took a few days off did a shit load of band work upper gucosamine and fish oil to 3x a day and its starting to subside, still not enough to get back to what i was doing but definatly some progress
 
a heavy cycle of test is hard on the joints for a number of reasons. extreme muscle and strenth gain is hard on joints that do not respond anywhere near as fast plus test hinders colegen synthesis which puts a halt on tendon strenthening. maybe a cruising cycle of equi, primo, deca which are known for colegin synthesis which strenthens the tendons. or even hgh or igf would help if you dont want to stay on. just a thought.......
 
I recently ended a cycle and am having major issues with my shoulder. I posted something similar to this like a week ago or so. I am now on fish oil, glucosamine, msm and chronditin (all in liquid form). Not doing any ai's and within a week it is definitely better but no way near fixed yet.

Good advice. Don't forget to rotate the joints a lot before work outs to. Get the fluids flowing.
 
I am have to say I am going through the same thing myself. Coupled with a car accident, well it's not a good combo. I've been out of comission for a couple of weeks and just recently tried to lift again. Shoulder was still shakey and hurt but at least I could lift again. I am not doing anything special other than rotaing my shoulder joints and doing shoulder dislocates that I learned from reading a post by Southernlord. Can't wait for this shit to be over already and yes, my stregth went up drastically while on. I went from working out with 315 on flat to 425 right before my accident. I am sure that is the main reason right there. That spike happened in a matter of roughly 4 months.
 
Jumping up the weight too fast will put a big strain on tendons for sure.
I went through the same thing and the pain was so bad I felt like all my joints especially shoulders were running on dry....

Since then I've done a couple of things to try to fix the prob:
1. I always use either deca/EQ or primo with every cycle
2. When I come off and even when on cycles, I keep estrogen a bit up to keep those joins lubricated. Too many ppl I think after a cycle lower their estrogen too much and suffer joint pains. To prove that, I checked my estro after a cycle and it was 15 or 17 causing all kind of pain. I felt my joints were dry. Geting up in the morning was a pain in the ass. I stopped all AIs stuck with 200mg of test/week HRT and with increased estrogen my pain went away about 95%.
3. I don't even take Glucosamine yet but prob I will in the future...I'm sure it helps
 
Gluc/Condr/MSM.

Super CISSUS - Amazing product for connective tissue, joints.

Fish Oil.

Take all of the above 3 X day at double dose for 30 days.
Continue at standard dose .... forever.
 
Good advice so far.

.50 cent,
What is super CISSUS?
________________________________________________________


Do a google for more info.
This paper somes it up and is very accurate.
I speak from personal experience. I have been taking Cissus since 2004.
IMHO, it is a miracle drug.


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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 19

Super Cissus RX Writeup

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Friend,

If joint pain is slowing down your workouts and quality of life, then this may be the most important letter you have ever read. .

Over the last three years bodybuilders, athletes and everyday individuals have gotten rid of their joint pain quickly and safely using a rare, but potent extract of an herb native to India - with amazing therapeutic power - called SuperCissus RX™.

The ingredient in SuperCissus RX™ have been used safely in India for centuries. Some of its amazing properties are actual re-growth of tendons, ligaments and bone! That's right - re-growth. SuperCissus RX™ is so unique and powerful; it can even help repair old, nagging injuries that have bothered you for years. It's like having a coat of armour protecting your body at all times!

In addition, SuperCissus RX™ can significantly lower cortisol, which can lead to increased Testosterone levels and new muscle tissue. It has also proven to be a potent anabolic/anti-catabolic agent without suppressing natural hormonal levels!

In fact, a recent clinical study proved it to be a stronger anti-catabolic than Deca & Dbol! Now that doesn't necessarily mean you will gain 30 pounds of muscle overnight, but it does mean SuperCissus RX™ will significantly help rebuild and repair your joints, tendons, ligaments, keep you in a positive nitrogen balance and slash your recovery time from workouts.

The great thing is it's 100% safe! No signs of toxicity, even at mega doses.

Don't Let Injuries Stop You From Gaining Enormous Amounts Of Muscle And Getting Ripped To The Bone

Most if not all athletic or bodybuilding careers end because of tendon, ligament and cartilage injuries. Many intelligent athletes are using SuperCissus RX™ as a preventative aid to fight off these injuries. SuperCissus Rx™ is the only known legal compound that builds tendon and ligament strength.

In the illegal community (i.e. juice), SuperCissus RX™ has worked when HGH has failed. SuperCissus Rx™ is used in the steroid community to keep tendon strength on par with muscle strength, as steroids actually weaken the strength ratio between connective tissue (tendons & ligaments) and muscle.

It has been my experience that many bodybuilders and athletes take anti-inflammatory medications to fight through the pain. Ultimately, these medications only kill the sensation of pain not the symptom. SuperCissus RX™ has demonstrated the ability to kill the pain specific to the injury, while promoting tissue regeneration.

In addition, these anti-inflammatory medications stop protein synthesis in its tracks. If you aren't aware, one of the biggest reasons why anabolic Steroids work so well is because they dramatically increase protein synthesis. So each time you take ibuprofen or any other NSAIDS, you are preventing your body from building muscle! Do yourself a favor and stop taking them.

SuperCissus RX™ actually increases protein synthesis. So while your body rebuilds and regenerates connective tissue, you can build muscle too!

SuperCissus RX™ is so ground-breaking that Bodybuilding legend Jeff Everson & Planet Muscle Magazine have given it the "2006 Most Innovative Radical New Joint Technology" Award.

Here are just some of the great benefits you can get by using SuperCissus RX™…

Safely & Effectively Rebuilds Tendons & Ligaments - Only natural herb in the world proven to do so.

Scientifically proven more powerful anti-catabolic properties than Deca & D-Bol - Preserve muscle mass better than any natural substance!

Keeps body in positive nitrogen balance 24/7!

Significantly lowers cortisol by at least 31 %!

Powerful pain reliever - without damaging effects that ibuprofen brings.

100% Safe & effective - Has been used for centuries in India.

So powerful it's Patent Pending!

Through much trial and error…not to mention costs…our research team has perfected the extraction process. This is crucial to getting results. Get the extract wrong and you might as well be swallowing dirt.

Notice how "bulk" Cissus is very dark and dirty, containing impurities and parts of the herb cissus quadrangularis that are useless to you. While the ultra-pure, pharmaceutical-grade SuperCissus RX™ is clean and lighter in color. This premium product is the result of our special extraction process. Each capsule of SuperCissus RX™ has more active ingredients that 20 capsules of the "bulk" stuff - without all the junk!

We have "juiced-up" SuperCissus RX™ so much that each capsule is loaded with only the crucial ketosterones that can help eliminate your joint pain, significantly reduce cortisol and increase anabolism through extremely powerful anti-catabolic properties!

It's real simple…

If you're suffering from joint pain, ligament pain, cartilage pain, had surgery on bone, ligament or cartilage; Super Cissus RX™ is the supplement to use.
It has helped thousands of athletes and bodybuilders across the world live pain-free from injuries that had bothered them for years!

USP Labs brought SuperCissus RX™ to America and we are the only ones who know how to extract the critical, powerful active ingredients.

As you know, this industry has many rip-off artists and "me-too" products. SuperCissus RX™ is THE ORIGINAL and the only way to guarantee you receive all of the benefits of this super herb.

Since the extract process is extremely detailed and exact, we produce Super Cissus RX™ in very small batches. This is to ensure pharmaceutical-grade quality and potency. In fact, our product is so fresh it's possible to be at your door less than 30 days after it was harvested in India!

Best,

Jacob Geissler

P.S. Parents or friends suffer from joint pain? Help them out and turn them on to SuperCissus RX™. Safe and effective for all ages.

P.P.S. WARNING: If using SuperCissus RX™ to rid injury related pain, you may experience instant relief due to its analgesic (pain killing) and cellular restructuring effects. This does not mean the injury has completely healed! Please continue your training regimen with extra caution and SuperCissus RX™ supplementation until your medical doctor announces that full recovery has been achieved. (It will be a lot faster than you could even possibly imagine!)

Here's the scientific write-up…

Cissus Quadrangularis is an ancient medicinal plant native to the hotter parts of Ceylon and India. It was prescribed in the ancient Ayurvedic texts as a general tonic and analgesic, with specific bone fracture healing properties. Modern research has shed light on Cissus' ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2). Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3). In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakened by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process begun.

While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and over-training) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.

Although the bulk of the research on Cissus centers around bone healing, the possibility exists that Cissus may act to improve bone healing it may improve the healing rate of connective tissue in general, including tendons. If this is the case it would be of great benefit to bodybuilders and athletes.

Besides the above-mentioned properties of Cissus, the plant is also rich in the vitamins/antioxidants vitamin C and beta-carotene. As analyzed, Cissus quadrangularis contained ascorbic acid 479 mg, and carotene 267 units per 100g of freshly prepared paste in addition to calcium oxalate (6).

The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus is 3 to 6 grams to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is also quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract.

Cissus also possess analgesic properties on a mg per mg basis comparable to aspirin or anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen. Cissus quadrangularis, which has been proved to be highly effective in relieving pain, reduction of swelling and promoting the process of healing of the simple fractures as well as in curing the allied disorders associated with fractures (7). The mechanism through which Cissus exerts its analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties has not been well characterized. It may act centrally, but the anti-inflammatory features suggest that it acts by preventing the conversion of arachidonic acid to inflammatory prostaglandins. Real World Application for injuries.

Simply if you're suffering from joint pain, ligament pain, cartilage pain, had surgery on bone, ligament or cartilage, Cissus is the supplement to use. It has been my experience that many athletes take anti-inflammatory medications to fight through the pain. Ultimately, these medications only kill the sensation of pain not the symptom. Cissus has the ability to kill the pain specific to the injury while promoting healing.

Some users will get instant relief and other will need to use Cissus for much longer period of time for complete healing of an injury. Leverage performance science is not claiming that Cissus will work 100% percent of the time that would be a foolish claim. We have estimated that 85% of user experience relief from our product. This number may lower or rise as more consumers send in reports. In the PHARMACEUTICAL industry a 50% success rate is good. Since we're talking about the Pharmaceutical industry, they have yet to produce a product that helps the healing process. They just develop pain medications that are often addicting.

SuperCissus is anabolic and anti-catabolic!!! SuperCissus users report a "PUMP" that we call the SuperCissus pump. The PUMP effect becomes prevalent at approximately 10-15 days of continuous SuperCissus use. The "PUMP" is due to the increase of blood flow to the muscle. The SuperCissus pump will have you flexing your muscle for no apparent reason. This is when you know the product has exerted its effect.

If using SuperCissus to heal injury related pain, you may experience instant relief due to its analgesic (pain killing) effect . This does not mean the injury has completely healed! Please continue your training regimen with extra caution until full recovery has been achieved. On the contrary, if using SuperCissus primarily for its anabolic properties your training program should be continued with maximum intensity to reap the full benefits of this product.

References

1) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Awadhiya RP. Studies of Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair : a histopathological study Indian J Med Res. 1976 Sep;64(9):1365-8
2) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Gupta LP, Datta IC. Studies on Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair: effect on chemical parameters in blood Indian J Med Res. 1975 Jun;63(6):824-8.
3) PRASAD GC, UDUPA KN. EFFECT OF CISSUS QUADRANGULARIS ON THE HEALING OF CORTISONE TREATED FRACTURES. Indian J Med Res. 1963 Jul;51:667-76.
4) Shirwaikar A, Khan S, Malini S. Antiosteoporotic effect of ethanol extract of Cissus quadrangularis Linn. on ovariectomized rat. J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Dec;89(2-3):245-50.
5) Combaret L, Taillandier D, Dardevet D, Bechet D, Ralliere C, Claustre A, Grizard J, Attaix D Glucocorticoids regulate mRNA levels for subunits of the 19 S regulatory complex of the 26 S proteasome in fast-twitch skeletal muscles. Biochem J. 2004 Feb 15;378(Pt 1):239-46.
6) Chidambara Murthy KN, Vanitha A, Mahadeva Swamy M, Ravishankar GA. Antioxidant and antimicrobial activity of Cissus quadrangularis L. J Med Food. 2003 Summer;6(2):99-105.
7) Panda, J Res Ayurv Siddha, 1990, 11, 7rences
 
I actually think high reps would cause more problems. Always stay around 8, just control weight better.
 
You're the man .50 Cent. I am going to get some of that too and look what I found: Torn Rotator Cuff shoulder wrap by Cold One®. that looks like it might help as well. Anyone ever try that contraption?

Galaxy,
I am going to have to change my stance on the higher reps. I've been doing high set at a lower weight for a couple of workouts now and although I have more mobility, I still have the pain so I guess it's not really doing what I had hoped it would do. The first day I did more reps at a lower weight (250x20 to 25 for about 4-5 sets) it felt really good for some reason but not so much so now.
 
How off cycle are you? You may have driven estrogen too low if over doing it with AI's.

I finished PCT 1.5 months ago (my 12 weeker ended at the end of June) and was actually planning on building my stock pile to start up another cycle in about a month after blood work and then my left shoulder just started giving out about 2 weeks ago. If was hurting before that but now it's to the point where I can't lift heavy anymore. I did a little light lifting on Thursday I think, to see where I was at and the strength is still there (I pushed 3 wheels/side on flat easily) but the shoulder itself is what is now the week link. I know now that I went up too quick in weight (I went from 315lbs max at the beginning of the cycle to 405lbs workout weight on flat for example).
My PCT was started 2 weeks after my last Sus pin and was this:

HCG 500iu EOD for 5 shots total (2500 IU in the span of 10 days) along with Proviron @ 50mg ED and Tamox @ 20mgs ED and that went on for a total of 4 weeks. I started taking Tamox 2 weeks before my cycle ended @ 20mgs ED.
 
Yeah, I would say 100lbs gained on flat bench may cause some problems now that your off cycle. Not the estro thing thats for sure.
 
The thing that trips me out is that the other muscle groups got just as stong if not stronger and no problems. I don't know, I guess I have naturally weak shoulders which pisses me off haha.
 
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