Isolation for Function

[Anthrax Invasion]

How many of you do direct core and roator work in order to keep yourself functional and prevent injury?

Those of you that do it, just not for function, why do you bother?

I'm of the opinion that if you can squat, deadlift, OHP, bench, row, chinup, clean heavily, without support from equipment, and have a balance between frequency/volume of said exercises, you have no need for either ab, low back, or rotator cuff work.

Then again, I could be wrong. This is assuming a healthy individual, with no prior problems.

 

[bignate73]

sortof a chicken or the egg thing. I do it to help those core lifts and to prevent injury. I'm of the mindset that support/stabilizers need some direct work from time to time through their range of motion since they mostly act isometrically or very close to a static stabilizer and would like them to be bulletproof in case of slight deviation of form. since most of those lifts tend to be linear in plane of motion, I just like to do a bit of precautionary work in case things to awry. but i definitely agree that core strength increases also from these lifts you mentioned. I see your point, I just prefer to make things a bit more functional. havent we all tweaked our back tying our shoes or picking up something small, but it was the wrong angle? yet rowing and deadlifting mountains...

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Very true. I guess I made my stand a bit black and white. I don't see the need for functional isolation work every session, or even every week. It's more of a thing I'd toss in when I felt I wanted to stay in the gym (or in my case, down stairs) a bit longer. I never do internal rotator cuff work, though, 'cause the internal rotators are strengthened through benching. The external ones are usually neglected, so I do those. Then again, I could be wrong on this.

As for abs, I've never seen a reason to train them dynamically. I'll do static work (i.e., planks) for them, but I don't do anything involving flexion anymore. Doesn't seem to have hurt me any.

 

[vin01]

Question: For those of you who do core and stabalizer work, when do you do it? I want to incorporate it without being a detriment to lifting heavy weights in my core exercises week to week.

Answering the original question: Atm, I do no core work, but do 8x25 abs (crunches, V-ups, and twists) every other day, in an attempt to keep my midsection tight.

 

[bignate73]

i do my core work after, i do my rotator work as a warmup. external rotations primarily, or standing windmills (big arm circles weighted, in and out).

 

[LiftingDukkha]

What exercises hit the internal rotators?

I got some good ideas for the external rotators from the post on shoulder pain that coolcolj provided me awhile back (Cuban clean, etc.). Are internal rotators basically motions in opposite directions of external rotator exercises?

I think this is an interesting question. It probably is a "chicken or egg" thing. Clearly "core" work is kind of bogus if you're already committed to squats, etc. But I think that is a good point that abs, etc. are mostly hit statically, incidental to squatting. Reading some of the excellent posts around here has made me feel less stress over feeling the need to do abs, etc. every workout day. I mostly go by feel or instinct, which means maybe every 3rd workout I do some direct abs.

 

[Jim Ouini]

What exercises hit the internal rotators?

Interesting factoid, according to Siff one should do cable fly's for internal rotators. Hmmm now I know why that station's so busy on a Friday, it must be 'internal rotators day'

I just started doing weighted hypers M-F and weighted situps M-W-F as assistance for my compound lifts, like bignate said.

 

[LiftingDukkha]

I don't even consider hypers/reverse hypers "isolated function." I guess they are, but they seem pretty necessary to me to do on their own. Good enough for Louie Simmons, good enough for me.

 

[Protobuilder]

havent we all tweaked our back tying our shoes or picking up something small, but it was the wrong angle? yet rowing and deadlifting mountains...

Good point. I'm in the "work your abs and core" camp. I didn't need to when I was in my lower 20s, but as I'm getting closer to 30, desk job, years of not exercising, etc., I'm finding that w/out direct ab/core strengthening work (weighted ab/core work), I have a lot more back pain. Strong abs (able to move heavy weight, not just do hundreds of reps) help keep me upright in the squat and strong in the core when doing deads, OHP, etc. Really hammering the core has reduced the incidence of back twinges and helped my form on heavy compound exercises.

Ignore weighted ab/core work at your peril, IMO. And I do it on non-workout days or throw in a few sets at the end of my 5x5 sessions. I prefer weighted decline situps, windmills (not the "rotator" windmills, LOL), GMs, and side bends. I also do static stuff like holds, planks, etc.

 

[LiftingDukkha]

Hmm, again, some things don't seem like "isolated function" to me so much as they seem like outright necessities. Good Mornings, for example: This is a big-time primary movement for me, second only to squats or deadlift (Westside actually advocates doing about 40% squats, 40% GM's, and less than 20% deadlift, even though they have world-class deadlifters).

I agree that it's at your own peril to ignore abs, etc. But I do think that once you work your conditioning back up to near peak levels, when you can do heavy squats, for example, regularly, your "core" is probably pretty well conditioned & might get most if not all its required work from heavy squats, etc. But if you're not in peak condition then core work is probably critical.

 

[bignate73]

LOVE THOSE GM's!

 

[coolcolj]

sometimes small muscles stop firing due to certain issues..then compound work makes it worse, because your using different patterns to lift the same weight

before you know it you have major problems...

 

[blut wump]

I like to work hypers and/or reverse hypers on my squat / posterior chain days and do weighted abs work on upper body days. I don't do any rotator cuff work since I reckon bench pressing movements and standing OHP do enough.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

I take it you recommend RC & core work then, CCJ?

Why do some people do RC stuff before benching? To me, it doesn't make sense to work the small muscles prior to a larger movement that utilizes them anyhow.

 

[musketeer]

Good thread, I don't do anything extra than the basic key moves as my core takes a beating from just that. Saying that, stretching and swimming are important to me.

 

[coolcolj]

I take it you recommend RC & core work then, CCJ?

Why do some people do RC stuff before benching? To me, it doesn't make sense to work the small muscles prior to a larger movement that utilizes them anyhow.

yeah, but not necessarily isolated work, there are plenty compound RC and core exercises

like cuban rotation + press etc

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Any links to explain cuban rotations?

Nevermind, I found a link to the exercises. How often do you do them? For how many reps?

 

[Protobuilder]

Why do some people do RC stuff before benching?

To warm up the little rc muscles prior to slamming 'em w/ heavy bench weights.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Right, but I would think doing a few warmups for bench presses would work just fine.

 

[coolcolj]

http://www.ruggedmag.com/index.php?type=Article&i=2&a=5