Is your Testosterone SHUT DOWN? FIX IT!

[liftr486]

im 4 mos post cycle and in my pct i did hcg, clomid, and nolva, but now i still have like no sex drive and im not gettin hard-on or morning wood...i wanna kno if u think i should continue w/ the clomid w/o the hcg or add the hcg in...will stayin on the clomid have any adverse effects and if i use hcg now, wouldnt it shut me down a little?

 

[sconoscuito]

great post


hey what do you think about stuff like unleashed? or some herbs that aid in raise of natural test

are they worthless?

 

[nsashbl01]

Unleashed and Post Cycle game me zits, but test didn't change much. On TRT now.

 

[MADBALL99]

Wouldn't the hammer style effect of using HCG desensitize the testicles ??

 

[Big_Joe]

This is all cool for the test problem but I have yet to see info about fixing the lipid profile. If your lipid profile is screwed up long enough you will be a buffed corpse. So any idea about getting HDL levels up?

 

[slat1]

My total test just came in at 302 ng/dl.
I am meeting with my endo on Thursday. It will be interesting to see what she has to say.

 

[MADBALL99]

As some of you know I was shut down hard by 2 cycles of Deca and a botched PCT consisting of 10 days of HCG....and nothing else. My l;ast Deca shot was Dec.23 and 10 HCG only was started 2 weeks after......Lost libido and a blood test showed Test count of 108 w/ low LH and FSH. I'm having more blood work done in 2 weeks but now I feel very lethargic, slow, and depressed...If things look bad from the 2nd blood work test I'm considering trying to bring my own test back w/ HCG and Clomid.....



However I've found a life extension clinic online that claims to specialize in TRT that brings people's own test back, not just the lifelong treatments everyone else is selling. They work in conjunction w/ doctors and clinics in your local area. They are known as Modern Therapy. You guys can visit them online at www.moderntherapy.com.

I'm just trying to verify if these guys are legit and reputable and if their program seems realistic. Basically their program is as follows. They provide a bio-identical Test gel that is applied Mon-Sun for 3 months. Supposedly this helps you feel better and elevate you test (hopefully) to at least the 500-600 range. (Wouldn't this futher shut me down though ??)

Two weeks after that you begin HCG therapy EOD at 1000 units at a time (for 10 days) for a total of 1000 units. Clomid then may or may not be added (but I should probably request it). They also supply Teslax which is like Armidex I believe , but milder.They claim to have a decent success rate w/ anabolic users The program costs $595 if you bring in your own bloodwork, $795 otherwise.


What do you guys think of this whole deal ? Does it look legit to you ? Does anyone have any info on these guys ? Do you believe that's it's a mistake to introduce this bio-identical gel into the body (further shutting me down) ? Should I just give my body more time to see what happens or should I just run my own HCG/ Clomid therapy ?? ANY info, help, advice or resources would be VERY appreciated. Thankyou.

 

[Vertigo]

Sounds like just another cycle to me. If you're taking a testosterone supplement, cream, gel, or injection, your body still sees it as bio-available and decreases natural production.

 

[MADBALL99]

Just found a place in Boca Raton , FL that has a similar program. They run HCG every day for 10 days 1000 units total) andClomid for 4-6 weeks. Total cost $300......$400 for 200MG a week (for 10 weeks) of Androgel IF it's included included in the therapy. What do you guys think ? The guy suggested to just run HCG and Clomid first, but to add androgel to try and eliviate the low test sides 1st immedietly if I insisted.

 

[Mr. Black]

Wouldn't the hammer style effect of using HCG desensitize the testicles ??

No it will not. Several studies have shown that if Nolva is taken in conjunction to HCG, it will prevent LH desensitization.



"Leydig cell desensitization from HCG has been shown to be blocked/minimized by Nolvadex. This occurs by supressing HCG's ability to inhibit the conversion of 17 alpha hydroxyprogesterone to testosterone.

Modulation of Leydig Cell Androgen Biosynthesis and Cytochrome P-450 Levels during Estrogen Treatment and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin induced Desensitization

The similarity of estrogen dependent lesions to those produced by hCG treatment further indicates the involvement of endogenous estrogen in the development of the microsomal enzymatic lesions in gonadotropin-induced desensitization of testicular androgen production.

Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men.

Simultaneous administration of hCG and the estrogen antagonist tamoxifen (20 mg twice daily) almost completely abolished the hCG-induced steroidogenic block localized between 17 OHP and T (17 OHP to T ratio at 24 h, 1.1 +/- 0.1 times baseline; P < 0.01 vs. hCG alone). These data indirectly suggest that, in man, the hCG-induced steroidogenic lesion might be mediated through its estrogen-stimulating effect.

Effect of an antiestrogen on the testicular response to acute and chronic administration of hCG in normal and hypogonadotropic hypogonadic men: tamoxifen and testicular response to hCG.

17OHP rose with hCG alone, but not with hCG + Tx in both groups. E, SHBG and 17OHP/T ratio did not change after treatments. hCG tests: E increased 24 h following hCG administration in every test. The ratio 17OHP/T rose at 24 h in the first and second test but in the third test it did not change. These results support the role of E in the acute hCG-induced Leydig cell desensitization."