is this the future of Bodybuilding ?

[The Shadow]

Reminds me of Michael Jordan trying baseball, sometimes changing the game can surprise people no matter how dominant they are at the one they are used to playing.

In general - very true.


In the case of Coleman, Im not sure it is applicable as a deadlift is a deadlift etc. He does the sport(specific lifts) already and, based upon his average lifts, would total 2200 with NO specific dynamic training.

 

[BiggT]

Shadow, yes numbers are what they are. I'd probably take feds into account too. Also, competition. Coleman isn't competing in over 40 master's shows, he is competing with the best of the best in Bodybuilding, so he should be compared to the best of the best in powerlifting. Also, to get guys who would even use a fraction of the drugs and ancillaries he does year-round you'd have to look at the WPO probably, and although I have my feelings on WPO lifting, I don't want to start World War 4, so I will keep them to myself, lol....I don't think Coleman would necessarily clean up at WPO Worlds, plus he'd have to string together those PRs in one day....is it possible he would? Sure it is, but I still don't think it is a no-brainer, and I still think it is only fair to compare him to the WPO guys, or at least lifters like Bolton and Magnusson, or Brian Siders.....not your average Master's lifter with a full-time job outside of training and no sponsorships who may or may not use drugs, and if he does only has 1/100000th of the budget and access Ronnie does.

Either way, I am by no means a Ronnie basher, and I am impressed with his lifts, I just think he is what he is, the best BB in the world because thats where 100% of his attention goes, and I am not so sure he'd dominate PL without actually seeing him try......and given his fleet of luxury vehicles and his monthly income from BB, I think he'd be a fool to take a stab at PL.

 

[The Shadow]

Shadow, yes numbers are what they are. I'd probably take feds into account too. Also, competition. Coleman isn't competing in over 40 master's shows, he is competing with the best of the best in Bodybuilding, so he should be compared to the best of the best in powerlifting. Also, to get guys who would even use a fraction of the drugs and ancillaries he does year-round you'd have to look at the WPO probably, and although I have my feelings on WPO lifting, I don't want to start World War 4, so I will keep them to myself, lol....I don't think Coleman would necessarily clean up at WPO Worlds, plus he'd have to string together those PRs in one day....is it possible he would? Sure it is, but I still don't think it is a no-brainer, and I still think it is only fair to compare him to the WPO guys, or at least lifters like Bolton and Magnusson, or Brian Siders.....not your average Master's lifter with a full-time job outside of training and no sponsorships who may or may not use drugs, and if he does only has 1/100000th of the budget and access Ronnie does.

Either way, I am by no means a Ronnie basher, and I am impressed with his lifts, I just think he is what he is, the best BB in the world because thats where 100% of his attention goes, and I am not so sure he'd dominate PL without actually seeing him try......and given his fleet of luxury vehicles and his monthly income from BB, I think he'd be a fool to take a stab at PL.

ok...lol

...nice dodge on the fact that Ronnie shouldnt be allowed to compete in a proper age class.....


..all the other things mentioned - full time job, gear etc - none of it matters where numbers are concerned. I addressed the gear usage b4 - 70% of his money goes to things that would not help in pling - hgh igf1 etc.



One other thing - about stringing along those numbers together - those ARE his day in, day out numbers...not the result of a training ramp - not the result of strength specific training.


Yes or no.


Do you think that Coleman would break the totals I posted in an earlier post in that weight category??

Either way you answer - Im finished with the thread...not out of anger or frustration...but bc its getting nowhere

 

[BiggT]

ok...lol

...nice dodge on the fact that Ronnie shouldnt be allowed to compete in a proper age class.....


..all the other things mentioned - full time job, gear etc - none of it matters where numbers are concerned. I addressed the gear usage b4 - 70% of his money goes to things that would not help in pling - hgh igf1 etc.



One other thing - about stringing along those numbers together - those ARE his day in, day out numbers...not the result of a training ramp - not the result of strength specific training.


Yes or no.


Do you think that Coleman would break the totals I posted in an earlier post in that weight category??

Either way you answer - Im finished with the thread...not out of anger or frustration...but bc its getting nowhere

Yes, without a doubt, I agree with that.

 

[The Shadow]

Yes, without a doubt, I agree with that.

You are a good man.....



























....despite what Cynical says about you

 

[FFQuads]

One thing people need to remember. Ronnie was a Powerlifter way before he was ever a BB. He was the man back then. He could bring it back if that was what he wanted to do. (I think) My friend was a very high National leveled Powerlifter and there are lots of pictures at meets with ronnie in the picture smiling with those huge guns up. Pretty cool that he had the look even back then.

 

[TheOak84]

i dont wanna get rammed, but ronnie looks like shit, a 40 in waist is hardly bbing. size is one thing, but so is looking good. i like arnie (who doesnt) franco, casey viator (was this shit in his time), zane, robbie robinson and boyer coe. some 80's guys like platz and mentzer.

the weight gain is getting to out of hand, is it supposed to, im not one to judge, but i wouldnt wanna look like the Hulk (maybe for a day, itd be fun), but i also wanna dont wanna have a heart attack when im 60...

i think its all political anyway, most sports are, i think dexter jackson and dennis james could beat ronnie, but thats a total opinion

 

[Maverick]

i dont wanna get rammed, but ronnie looks like shit, a 40 in waist is hardly bbing. size is one thing, but so is looking good. i like arnie (who doesnt) franco, casey viator (was this shit in his time), zane, robbie robinson and boyer coe. some 80's guys like platz and mentzer.

the weight gain is getting to out of hand, is it supposed to, im not one to judge, but i wouldnt wanna look like the Hulk (maybe for a day, itd be fun), but i also wanna dont wanna have a heart attack when im 60...

i think its all political anyway, most sports are, i think dexter jackson and dennis james could beat ronnie, but thats a total opinion

Damn, realtalk right here

 

[Protobuilder]

Apparently this debate is going on elsewheres as well. LoL Hope Fred doesn't mind:

Ronnie would probably be a great powerlifter. He hits great numbers in training now, and if he focused on PLing he would probably do better.

But, he would not be anywhere near as dominant in the world of powerlifting as he is in bodybuilding. Far from it.

He's pretty much the best bodybuilder of this era. As he stands right now, he would not really make a dent at the elite level.

Of course, this depends on what federation he's in. Since I don't think anyone is going to argue that Ronnie is "clean", lets hope its not USAPL, and just assume when we talk about international, elite level lifting, we mean WPO.

To hang in the WPO, no one is even going to look at him unless he's squatting 1000 (assuming the rest of his total is high enough so that he can qualify). Really, at his weight, he'd really need to be around 1100, and considering that there is an Israeli around his weight who is pushing 1200, Ronnie would need to be around there to be the best. Right now he squats mid 800 above parallel. Even assuming that he could get his squat passed at that depth, that puts him about 400 pounds beneath where he needs to be. That is quite a large margin.

For bench, repping 500 is a great start. Assuming he has time to learn a shirt and get proper carryover, he could be competitive, especially in full power meets where. However, there are some freaks out there who are benching around 800 in a full meet. If Ronnie truly wants to be the undisputed best, he would need to be around there too. That means, depending on where his 1RM is, he would need about 300 pounds out of his shirt. Thats definitely doable, since people have done it before, but not easy. Also a good way to get injured, but thats neither here nor there.

Also, since there are also guys who can bench 600+ raw in a full power meet, Ronnie would probably need to be able to do that too in order to compete with the best.

When you look at "bench-only" competitions, the competition gets even stiffer. Ronnie would need to be able to hang around 800-900 depending on his weight class. If he does "bench-only" in the IPA, he'd need 1000+ to be able to hang with Gene. To have the best raw bench, he would need to compete with Mendy's 700+ bench.

Of the 3 PL lifts, Ronnie's deadlift is in the best shape right now, although he would need to do it without straps. Also, just because he can double 800, doesn't mean he can do much more than that. The first rep of the deadlift is the toughest, so who knows. If he wants to be the undisputed best, he would have to hang with Bolton and Benedikt. Considering I don't know if Ronnie can deadlift 800 without straps, 970+ is a tall order.

 

[The Shadow]

...everyone forgets he is in the Master's age class.


LOL


He "already" has the American records in the 308 pound class without evening training for them