Is there any reason one shouldn't squat?

[Jim Ouini]

Or put another way: Who shouldn't be squatting? I'm not being facetious, I'm just curious. Goals? Experience? Injury?

The other day I was the grocery store checkout line and I see one of those gossip rags with a picture of Oprah and a headline about how she's back up 50lbs. So I start thinking how this woman has got to have access to the best trainers in the world - so I think to myself 'I wonder if Oprah squats' (damn express checkout line is always the slowest )

And with so few people squatting at my gym (OK probably not a good example). NSCA and ACSM certified trainers (the gold standard, right?) listing up squat-less programs. Sometimes I see clips of the NFL guys working out on leg press and leg extensions. I saw some of these guys' offseason strength workouts and not a squat to be seen. Surely these teams have some of the best S&C coaches out there.

This board and others I read promote the squat as the single best exercise out there. I believe it as well - but I'm wondering if this board is a small minority and for the lowest common denominator/general population if the squat just isn't needed. It would seem so based on the dearth of squat based programs from seemingly legitimate sources you see out there. I totally understand a fancy cert or PhD doesn't guarantee anything, but I'm just taking a world view here

So - should an absolute beginner not learn to squat right away, even with bodyweight? Should they start on the leg press?

Athletes who can't risk doing a squat with bad form? Someone without the medial glute strength to keep their knees from caving in, should start on adductor machine?

 

[LiftingDukkha]

To be honest I'm not completely sure whether squats are absolutely necessary or not. I feel as if they are obviously the single king of all exercises. But, obviously, they're extremely hard & require serious psychological commitment, especially from the "average" Joe or Jane Sixpack in the street. Still, I don't know if it's the fact that they are so difficult, even compared to leg press, etc, that causes most people to avoid them like plague. I think the sheer difficulty is certainly a disincentive, but many people do lots of other difficult exercises (e.g. marathon running, rock climbing, or whatever). I bet the sheer demand of commitment, both physically & psychologically, has much to do with Squatting's relative lack of popularity. It seems pretty obvious to me that even hardcore leg presses can't compare to Squats, just as it's obvious that things such as knee injuries actually usually get better upon doing Squats rather than get worse. Nonetheless they are so demanding that I think most people would simply rather do something, anything else!

 

[mad_monkey59]

Squatting is probably the most effective movement in gaining mass and strength that exists. Im not saying that a routine without squats won't produce good results. What I am saying though is that squats will help you achieve your goals much more rapidly then a routine without squats. As Tom Platz said, you will never achieve your full potential without them.

The only reasons I can see not to squat is either:

a) Injury in the knee or lower back
b) Lack of equipment
c) Lack of will power
d) A personal preference sacrificing gains for comfort, and the ability to walk upstair afterwards.

 

[Dial_tone]

I have gone years without squatting. I had some back problems that prevented it. I can get a good workout without them but I'd rather not try. Right now my workout is:

extensions - 3 sets all warmup
squats 5-6 work sets
front squat 4 work sets
standing curl 3 sets
seated curl 3 sets
calves

 

[anotherbutters]

I read somewhere about Glenn Pendlay's 4 or 5 year old kid squatting with a wooden broomstick because he wanted to copy his dad. I think Glenn made some little wooden plates for him too.

I think if you can learn to squat with good form, there shouldn't be any reason to avoid them due to weakness.

 

[rbtrout]

When I talk to people about squatting, most have an injury that they THINK will get worse by doing squats. Or the usual, 'Oh, my knees couldn't handle that'. It's a load of BS. My knee hurts more when doing leg presses with or without squats. Doing squats to parallel hurt my knees, ATF is the only way to go.
Deadlifts are essential, as well.

 

[blut wump]

18 months ago I couldn't squat. My only dedicated quad exercise was leg extensions. For hamstrings I did leg curls. My only free-weight movements were DB curls, DB triceps curls and DB rows.

It's not always true that people avoid squatting just because they think it'll make things worse. Sometimes the squat movement is actually painful.

 

[Guinness5.0]

It's difficult to learn correctly. It's physically demanding. For (most) guys it's not a "glamour" lift. Combine those factors with the inherent laziness of most gymgoers and you have yourself a recipe for underutilization.

From a function standpoint I don't think you can beat 'em- you've got to balance/coordinate almost the entire body, plus you can use scads of weight for them. Done properly they'll usually help more knee problems than they create.

I won't stop squatting unless I can't b/c of injury.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Well I agree with all the reason's why people don't squat - my question was more along the lines of should everyone squat, barring injury.

Should (do) top level athletes squat? Or does it depend on their sport? How about housewives (or men, I suppose ) who don't give a hoot about strength but just want to 'work their legs'? From an exercise standpoint I rarely see the emphasis on the squat as much as, say, the Starr 5 x 5 or Rippetoe/Pendlay camp - even from NFL S&C programs (from what little I've seen) and other guys you'd seemingly respect.

And no one knows if Oprah squats or not?

 

[Madcow2]

Well, some of the HIT and BBing mentality has managed to make it a bit higher than they should IMO and have managed to schnooz their way into the Pros. It depends on the coach. Charlie Francis has an article linked in my TOC (the old one too) specifically addressing this and warning the HIT boys that team owners may be ignorant but they aren't stupid and won't be for long. I think what we are seeing today is the top and a downslope has already started.

Squatting is natural to the body. Good exercise for resistence. Big ROM and lots of weight along the body's natural line. Can't really think of a better one for results although at the extreme there are people that might benefit from pulling more (generally taller people) or have an injury/odd or defective structure to them that makes the move dangerous or incompatible.

So yeah, everyone should squat even if it's bodyweight at home when they first get up in the morning - that pushups, situps, pullups if they have a bar - nice little home routine for the non weighttrainer. Oprah needs to eat less, squatting might also help though.

 

[kiosk]

dont squat if you are not flexible, specially in hams and back...get that fixed first and you will enjoy squats a lot more,......I injured myself before learning this.

 

[coolcolj]

I came across this in some kid's training journal


------------

My chiropractor/trainer has trained the Atlanta falcons(when they went to superbowl), Minnesota Vikings, Chicago Bears.

I had terrible back pain through the summer, and when i started football, i couldnt hardly get into a 3 point stance, i played through pain. So i took 4 weeks off until i heard about this trainer. He said My Lower back was out of line, and it was from squatting. He is amazing, after one visit he stretched my entire body and popped my back back in line and played the next game.

Here is what i can and cant do. i can do squats, but not parallel. only go down 33 degrees, which is almost halfsquats i think, this is actually a must for everyone. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE MY TRY THIS.

put your hands on your hams, do a half squat. you should feel your hams contracting. Now, feel your hams through a full squat, you dont feel them. and going below 33 degrees is just putting more pressure on your patella(knees). and all it will do is contract your knees, and eventually you will blow them out. this is just a thing that i beleive. it makes perfect sense to me.

and another thing is is that i have been running with pain in my back for a long time, and this caused my running to be very bad, so now that my back is in line, i can have better form. And he guarantees that i will be faster. my last 40 was a 5.00. so next time i test it, i hope its at least a 4.9

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

That kid sounds like a complete douche bag. Someone should school him.

 

[blut wump]

If you're in pain for weeks or months on end and someone comes along and takes that pain away from you, there's a strong tendency to pay a lot of heed to what they tell you you must do to avoid a having the pain return. The doctor/chiro/trainer shows you some movements and tells you of the harm you can do to yourself and your main thought is that you don't want to spend the rest of your life with that pain.

My chiro told me not to squat and not to perform any overhead pressing and not to form an arch while benching. Maybe I'm fortunate that he wasn't able to take away my pain in one or two visits and I realised that all he could do was me patch up from time to time and generally help me to heal myself else I might have been in that kid's position.

The kid's position is reasonable. He's accepted medical advice from someone who has demonstrated expertise in the subject to him. Squatting deep into the hole isn't necessary for a normal healthy life, being pain-free pretty much is.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

No, but squatting deep in the hole is necessary for well-developed athletes, and the kid opens by touting how his chrio trained three football teams.

You now do squats, overhead presses and you arch while benching, do you not Blut Wump? How has your situation changed from before incorporating these movements, to now? No back pain? Minor? Do you feel it is these movements that helped you?

How do you sleep? Side? Back? Stomach? Pillow to elevate legs when on back? Between knees when on side?

 

[Madcow2]

Keep in mind a "trainer" is not a strength coach - this is probably what screwed the kid up as to the layman he's probably thinking he was in charge of strength and conditioning in some way. He could have been taping ankles for a his pay check.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Blut Wummmmppp....

 

[blut wump]

Yes I do those lifts. If not I probably would have been chased away from here months back. The lift I feel that has been most beneficial to my back has been deadlift. That more than any other has reworked and reconditioned my lower back. Hamstring stretches after every workout definitely help me too. I think I also benefitted from high, extra-wide box squats as recommended by BFold.

My chiro is repeatedly appalled at my lifting and I've had several discussions with him. His position is that I'm obviously benefitting from the work and he now encourages me to continue doing whatever I'm doing.

On the downside, I've had injuries from squatting and deadlifting and occasionally felt things move in my back on heavy OHP. I've recently been forced to forswear deadlifting for the remainder of the year. Altogether, I've been in some significant way physically disfunctional maybe a couple of months through this year simply due to pains from the above lifts. Long term I'll continue with them because I feel they are to my general benefit and, more significantly, because I enjoy them.

I've tried messing around with the pillow and find it a distraction to sleeping. I've never persisted with it and felt little, if any, benefit when I have dallied with it. When my back is particularly bad I sleep on my left with my legs curled. When it's not bothering me much I tend to sleep on my front or on my right with legs straight out.

I suspect that if someone is correctly educated in the squat from an early time in their lifting they'll benefit greatly long-term. I also think, though, that for a coach to take his current crop of poorly-squatting athletes and get them deep-squatting he'll suffer a high degree of early attrition. The players who come through the program might well have accrued some benefits but it'll doubtless be another coach who claims the glory from that. There are risks associated with slapping heavy weight on your back which some might find unacceptable. Those risks would doubtless be magnified if placed within an already gruelling conditioning program.

The real key is better education. You can go to probably any gym anywhere in the world and get a mix of opinions of whether deep squatting is good. Of course, the bigger guys will be going down in the hole and the smaller ones not. If not for being on here, I'd probably still view parallel as a goal to think about rather than as a minimum depth and I'm sure there are others reading this in the same position.

Summing up, for my back, no, I don't believe that deep squats have directly helped my back in any ways that were specific to deep squats. I might revise this opinion over the next couple of months as I try to go without deadlifts.

Edit:
A minor addendum: when I mentioned bigger guys I had in mind those with a power-lifter physique rather than a bodybuilder one. I go to a hard-core gym and I can't think of anyone there with a BB physique whom I've seen squatting in the hole. Most don't seem to do any squats and concentrate on press, curls and extensions for leg work. The bulky ("fat") lifters all squat deep. I know that some of them are competing power-lifters but that still leaves them going deeper than the sport requires.